Lordship Salvation, Part 3 (John 5:24) Andy Woods

[Andy C]

Now what people do is they ignore the 200 clear verses and they gravitate towards the obscure ones that seem to contradict belief, God’s one condition of salvation. They gravitate towards the word “repent” and so we spent a session explaining what repentance means, and how repentance can be harmonized with faith alone. And then they gravitate towards the passages that call Jesus’ disciples to surrender to Him as lord. And this is a doctrine called Lordship Salvation; Lordship Salvation refers to the belief which says that the sinner who wants to be saved must not only trust Christ as his substitute for sin but must also surrender every area of his life to the complete control of Jesus. And Lordship salvation people basically say if you haven’t done both of those things then you’re not saved. They would call what you have a false conversion. You are a mere professor but not a possessor.

I gave you the quotes from John MacArthur, his sermons and his books where he teaches this, J. I. Packer, and others but the only thing we’ve gone over the last couple of sessions is sort of explaining why this doctrine of Lordship salvation is a problem—it’s not the right gospel. Seven problems Lordship salvation, six of which we’ve covered. Lordship salvation changes the gospel away from what Jesus has done for me and I am receiving it now as a gift by faith; the spotlight is no longer on what Jesus has done, the spotlight is now on me and what I do. I forsake, I surrender, I submit, and that becomes a doctrine of works.

Lordship salvation places an impossible burden on the unsaved; you are asking unsaved people to do something they can’t do. Lordship salvation confuses justification (how we’re saved) with sanctification (how we grow). So we do believe in Lordship and discipleship but we do not put it under the category of justification, which is achieved only as a result of faith but under the category of progressive sanctification. Lordship salvation confuses the result with the requirement of salvation. Lordship salvation, as we talked about, fails to make basic dispensational distinctives, instead choosing to build its presentation of the gospel from passages where the Lord Jesus and John the Baptist was offering Israel the kingdom.

And then Lordship salvation ignores the concept of a carnal Christian. We’re not applauding carnal Christianity, we’re simply saying it’s possible. But under lordship theology you shouldn’t have a carnal Christian, you shouldn’t even have a backslidden Christian because the condition for being justified is total surrender to the Lord. So if someone today claims to be a Christian but they’re not totally surrendered to Christ, what we would say is there’s a possibility they may be a carnal Christian. Lordship salvation people would say no, they’re not a Christian at all. Do you see the difference there?

And then one little point here that we didn’t touch on yet, this is why I had you turn to John 5:24, Lordship salvation destroys the assurance of salvation. What do we mean by assurance of salvation? Assurance of salvation is the idea that you can know, not 99%, not 99.999%, but 100% that you’re saved. Under the doctrine of Lordship salvation you can never really know if you’re saved because Lordship salvation revolves around this anachronism TULIP. TULIP is sort of the pneumonic device to explain Calvinist teaching; a lot of this comes from very strong Calvinistic teachings and that kind of thing. And the “P” at the end of the pneumonic device stands for the perseverance of the saints. And what they mean by that is if you really are a Christian then you must persevere in works until the very end of your life and if you have not persevered in works until the very end of your life then you were never saved to begin with.

Now what we teach, and I’ll be going through this later on in the course, not tonight but down the road, we teach something called preservation of the saints, where God preserves us based on His promises, and that’s called eternal security. But that’s not what Lordship salvation means by the “P”, when they use the word “P” they mean it’s Perseverance in good works, as evidence of saving faith. And if that’s what you believe you can really never know you’re a Christian. Why is that? Because perseverance in good works is never objectively defined. How many good works do I have to do? How consistent do those good works have to be? How fast do they have to come? How frequent are they? What good works are you talking about?

Lordship Salvation, Part 3 (John 5:24)

 

[Andy C]

Lordship salvation places an impossible burden on the unsaved; you are asking unsaved people to do something they can’t do. Lordship salvation confuses justification (how we’re saved) with sanctification (how we grow). So we do believe in Lordship and discipleship but we do not put it under the category of justification, which is achieved only as a result of faith but under the category of progressive sanctification. Lordship salvation confuses the result with the requirement of salvation. Lordship salvation, as we talked about, fails to make basic dispensational distinctives, instead choosing to build its presentation of the gospel from passages where the Lord Jesus and John the Baptist was offering Israel the kingdom.

And then Lordship salvation ignores the concept of a carnal Christian. We’re not applauding carnal Christianity, we’re simply saying it’s possible. But under lordship theology you shouldn’t have a carnal Christian, you shouldn’t even have a backslidden Christian because the condition for being justified is total surrender to the Lord. So if someone today claims to be a Christian but they’re not totally surrendered to Christ, what we would say is there’s a possibility they may be a carnal Christian. Lordship salvation people would say no, they’re not a Christian at all. Do you see the difference there?

This is key for me, and where John M misses the mark.

 

[Cheeky200386]

Now what people do is they ignore the 200 clear verses and they gravitate towards the obscure ones that seem to contradict belief, God’s one condition of salvation. They gravitate towards the word “repent” and so we spent a session explaining what repentance means, and how repentance can be harmonized with faith alone. And then they gravitate towards the passages that call Jesus’ disciples to surrender to Him as lord. And this is a doctrine called Lordship Salvation; Lordship Salvation refers to the belief which says that the sinner who wants to be saved must not only trust Christ as his substitute for sin but must also surrender every area of his life to the complete control of Jesus. And Lordship salvation people basically say if you haven’t done both of those things then you’re not saved. They would call what you have a false conversion. You are a mere professor but not a possessor.

I gave you the quotes from John MacArthur, his sermons and his books where he teaches this, J. I. Packer, and others but the only thing we’ve gone over the last couple of sessions is sort of explaining why this doctrine of Lordship salvation is a problem—it’s not the right gospel. Seven problems Lordship salvation, six of which we’ve covered. Lordship salvation changes the gospel away from what Jesus has done for me and I am receiving it now as a gift by faith; the spotlight is no longer on what Jesus has done, the spotlight is now on me and what I do. I forsake, I surrender, I submit, and that becomes a doctrine of works.

Lordship salvation places an impossible burden on the unsaved; you are asking unsaved people to do something they can’t do. Lordship salvation confuses justification (how we’re saved) with sanctification (how we grow). So we do believe in Lordship and discipleship but we do not put it under the category of justification, which is achieved only as a result of faith but under the category of progressive sanctification. Lordship salvation confuses the result with the requirement of salvation. Lordship salvation, as we talked about, fails to make basic dispensational distinctives, instead choosing to build its presentation of the gospel from passages where the Lord Jesus and John the Baptist was offering Israel the kingdom.

And then Lordship salvation ignores the concept of a carnal Christian. We’re not applauding carnal Christianity, we’re simply saying it’s possible. But under lordship theology you shouldn’t have a carnal Christian, you shouldn’t even have a backslidden Christian because the condition for being justified is total surrender to the Lord. So if someone today claims to be a Christian but they’re not totally surrendered to Christ, what we would say is there’s a possibility they may be a carnal Christian. Lordship salvation people would say no, they’re not a Christian at all. Do you see the difference there?

And then one little point here that we didn’t touch on yet, this is why I had you turn to John 5:24, Lordship salvation destroys the assurance of salvation. What do we mean by assurance of salvation? Assurance of salvation is the idea that you can know, not 99%, not 99.999%, but 100% that you’re saved. Under the doctrine of Lordship salvation you can never really know if you’re saved because Lordship salvation revolves around this anachronism TULIP. TULIP is sort of the pneumonic device to explain Calvinist teaching; a lot of this comes from very strong Calvinistic teachings and that kind of thing. And the “P” at the end of the pneumonic device stands for the perseverance of the saints. And what they mean by that is if you really are a Christian then you must persevere in works until the very end of your life and if you have not persevered in works until the very end of your life then you were never saved to begin with.

Now what we teach, and I’ll be going through this later on in the course, not tonight but down the road, we teach something called preservation of the saints, where God preserves us based on His promises, and that’s called eternal security. But that’s not what Lordship salvation means by the “P”, when they use the word “P” they mean it’s Perseverance in good works, as evidence of saving faith. And if that’s what you believe you can really never know you’re a Christian. Why is that? Because perseverance in good works is never objectively defined. How many good works do I have to do? How consistent do those good works have to be? How fast do they have to come? How frequent are they? What good works are you talking about?

Lordship Salvation, Part 3 (John 5:24)

That’s why I hate Calvinism. You can never rest in your salvation because you can never be sure you’ve demonstrated enough growth to know you’re saved. It reminds me of Catholicism where you always fear you’re one sin away from losing your salvation.

 

[Eric Nicholas]

That’s why I hate Calvinism. You can never rest in your salvation because you can never be sure you’ve demonstrated enough growth to know you’re saved. It reminds me of Catholicism where you always fear you’re one sin away from losing your salvation.

It's why I am so aggressive against it. I was under John MacArthur and R.C. Sproul for years and I loved their sermons. But I remember distinctly one day I heard both of them talk about salvation and it wasn't right at all. Like something hit me straight into the core of my existential understanding. It spun me on a crisis of faith for a long time. I had zero joy or assurance of salvation.

The icing on the cake was when R.C. Sproul admitted he had no true assurance of salvation and it was possible that he could wake up in hell weeping. He was very distraught about it. It was scary. So, if John and Sproul weren't sure about their eternal destination, what chance did someone like me have, right? Never again.

 

[Eric Nicholas]

I know my words may read harsh, but I promise you it's out of urgency of love. I'd loathe, at least right now, that we wouldn't be seated together at God's table. The aggression is worth it. And that reminder in Scripture about people you just knew were going to make it and they wind up being separated from God forever should bring a sobering pause. That's too serious to not attack it and try to pull whoever is being devoured inside of those jaws, out.

It brings to mind one time my daughter was outside. I looked over at her and she had a big spider crawling up her shoulder and she didn't know it. Without a second thought, I grabbed it, and I crushed it immediately in my hand. My daughter was scared and surprised by my action because it was so sudden and aggressive. But when I told her what happened and I opened up my fist, she saw the dead spider and she was so happy and gave me a big hug. She still fondly brings that moment up to this day. If I love you, anything that stands in your way will become my supreme enemy.

 

[Cheeky200386]

It's why I am so aggressive against it. I was under John MacArthur and R.C. Sproul for years and I loved their sermons. But I remember distinctly one day I heard both of them talk about salvation and it wasn't right at all. Like something hit me straight into the core of my existential understanding. It spun me on a crisis of faith for a long time. I had zero joy or assurance of salvation.

The icing on the cake was when R.C. Sproul admitted he had no true assurance of salvation and it was possible that he could wake up in hell weeping. He was very distraught about it. It was scary. So, if John and Sproul weren't sure about their eternal destination, what chance did someone like me have, right? Never again.

The same thing happened to me. I shortly after I was saved, I fell into watching John McArthur and John Piper. I vividly remember watching their sermons on salvation and being terrified and stressed unsure if I was part of the elect. Every day I doubted and as a result didn’t share the Gospel because I wasn’t sure I was saved and could.

This was absolute agony for about a year. I remember climbing out of bed at 2am one night weeping and telling God I couldn’t be a Christian because it felt impossible. Thankfully I kept reading and studying my Bible and came across Biblically sound Pastors. I finally realized the error of Calvinism and have been at peace ever since.

I love Andy Wood’s sermons where he spends hours just debunking Calvinism using their “proof” texts and shows the full counsel of the Bible in “Context, Context, Context”.

The good thing is I now have a spidey sense for Calvinism/Reformed theology. I know their buzz words and phrases. It’s startling to see how they have infiltrated Baptist churches. It’s maddening. I don’t even visit a church without first asking the Pastor what his views on Reformed Theology are. I had a Pastor admit he is Reformed but his members are not. I was saddened for that congregation.

If they sound sympathetic to Calvinism, I run. My current Pastor and I share in our anger towards the infiltration of independent Baptist Churches.

 

[Andy C]

Great points from the op:

“See, I’ve been in churches where people get saved every single week, the same people. I’ve been in churches where people give altar calls and I’ve watched the people that go forward in these altar calls and a lot of times it’s the exact same people. And I say well wait a minute, Sister So and So, or Brother So and So got saved last week, why are they “getting saved” again? Well, the reason is they don’t have any real teaching on the assurance of salvation. So what happened is they had a down time during the week, and they don’t understand the doctrine of the assurance of salvation so they think to themselves well, I guess I lost my salvation if they’re under Arminianism, or I guess I never had salvation to begin with if I’m under Calvinism so I’ll go forward again. When in reality what’s happened to them is they’re saved is they are God’s child, they’re saved, they fell into sin, their saved condition is not in jeopardy but they’ve fallen out of fellowship with God. See that? Their position is the same, it’s unalterable but the moment by moment fellowship has been broken.

It’s like my wife and myself, we’re married. I can go home tonight though and treat her poorly and yell at her and scream at her, the next day we’re still married, right? Hopefully. [Laughter] But what has broken is not our position as husband and wife; what has broken is our moment by moment fellowship and enjoyment of each other. See that?

So that fellowship will not be restored until I apologize for my actions. When I apologize for my actions it doesn’t make me more married; I’m just as married then as I was before the problem started. The fellowship, though, has been broken and an apology or humility or a contrite spirit, what that does is it restores broken fellowship.

So that’s what happens to people, they get saved and they go and they sin and they feel so bad about themselves they think they never had salvation to begin with, or they lost it when in reality they fell out of fellowship with God. And what they need to do is exercise 1 John1:9, agree with God about their sin, 1 John 1:9, and as that is exercised fellowship between God and His child is restored but the position of God and child is unalterable. [1 John 1:9, “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”]

 

[Cheeky200386]

Great points from the op:

“See, I’ve been in churches where people get saved every single week, the same people. I’ve been in churches where people give altar calls and I’ve watched the people that go forward in these altar calls and a lot of times it’s the exact same people. And I say well wait a minute, Sister So and So, or Brother So and So got saved last week, why are they “getting saved” again? Well, the reason is they don’t have any real teaching on the assurance of salvation. So what happened is they had a down time during the week, and they don’t understand the doctrine of the assurance of salvation so they think to themselves well, I guess I lost my salvation if they’re under Arminianism, or I guess I never had salvation to begin with if I’m under Calvinism so I’ll go forward again. When in reality what’s happened to them is they’re saved is they are God’s child, they’re saved, they fell into sin, their saved condition is not in jeopardy but they’ve fallen out of fellowship with God. See that? Their position is the same, it’s unalterable but the moment by moment fellowship has been broken.

It’s like my wife and myself, we’re married. I can go home tonight though and treat her poorly and yell at her and scream at her, the next day we’re still married, right? Hopefully. [Laughter] But what has broken is not our position as husband and wife; what has broken is our moment by moment fellowship and enjoyment of each other. See that?

So that fellowship will not be restored until I apologize for my actions. When I apologize for my actions it doesn’t make me more married; I’m just as married then as I was before the problem started. The fellowship, though, has been broken and an apology or humility or a contrite spirit, what that does is it restores broken fellowship.

So that’s what happens to people, they get saved and they go and they sin and they feel so bad about themselves they think they never had salvation to begin with, or they lost it when in reality they fell out of fellowship with God. And what they need to do is exercise 1 John1:9, agree with God about their sin, 1 John 1:9, and as that is exercised fellowship between God and His child is restored but the position of God and child is unalterable. [1 John 1:9, “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”]

I love the analogy for a parent and their child too. My son will always be my son even if he sins against me, leaves the house, never talks to me again. Our relationship will be strained until we reconcile but he will never stop being my son.

 

[Andiamo]

Yes we are adopted first Born sons and we don’t get un-adopted.

 

[mattfivefour]

@Andy C, thanks for posting this series on Lordship Salvation. It certainly blessed me and I have no doubt that it blessed everyone else who read it too. Andy Woods' theology is 100% scriptural.

 

[Kem]

@mattfivefour Pastor Adrian, I'm still confused. It seems from reading some of the comments that some think it is fine after salvation to just say "ok God, lay it on me but I will just keep on disobeying and sinning as much as I want because it's all on You to sanctify me". I have to add AGAIN before I get misrepresented again that I do know that no works can save, only true belief on the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross. I am speaking of after salvation.

Surely in 2 Peter 1:5 he does mean "giving all diligence". And yes, we are speaking of after salvation and the difference between being fruitful and not fruitful rather than salvation.

 

[Growing in Grace]

Kem, did you see Adrian's post under Part 1?

For me it is as simple as this: Jesus Christ and what he did on the Cross is the entire root of our salvation. Our obedience and our works are the fruit that grows from that root.

The fruit does not produce itself. The branch does not produce the fruit. The nature of the tree produces the fruit and the tree exists solely because of the root.

Does fruit always grow at the same rate? No. Does it always grow regardless of external conditions? Not always. Drought, excessive rain, harsh weather, extreme heat, bitter cold and frost will inhibit the growth of the fruit. Until the Christian is able to trust God to the extent that externals no longer trouble them, their fruit will be affected. And for many of us, the development of such trust can be a lifelong experience.

But a fruit tree that does not seem to bear much or sweet fruit does not cease to be a fruit tree. It is merely a tree that has been beaten about and not properly cared for. Since God is the perfect husbandman, then others are the cause of the beatings; and a lack of proper care must be laid at our own door. But none of this affects the root or our attachment to it. Our rewards in Heaven will be based on how well we care for what Christ entrusted to us; but on the basis of 1st Corinthians 3:15, while our rewards may be lost, our salvation will never be. So on that basis alone, Lordship Salvation is wrong.

 

[Andy C]

@mattfivefour Pastor Adrian, I'm still confused. It seems from reading some of the comments that some think it is fine after salvation to just say "ok God, lay it on me but I will just keep on disobeying and sinning as much as I want because it's all on You to sanctify me". I have to add AGAIN before I get misrepresented again that I do know that no works can save, only true belief on the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross. I am speaking of after salvation.

Surely in 2 Peter 1:5 he does mean "giving all diligence". And yes, we are speaking of after salvation and the difference between being fruitful and not fruitful rather than salvation.

In your opinion is John M a solid biblical pastor?

 

[Kem]

In your opinion is John M a solid biblical pastor?

Yes, at least during the times I have listened but is he always right? No because he once said people can be saved after taking the mark. In fact I don't believe any pastor is always right on every subject all the time without fail. No one is except God. Have to add though that I love our pastor Adrian as he always helps clarify a subject. However, the subject I think we are addressing in this thread appears to be whether the life should show a change AFTER, I repeat AFTER salvation. We all know (including Dr.MacArthur) that the unsaved are completely unable to do any kind of saving work. So we are speaking of AFTER salvation. And just to be sure that I am not misunderstood. I am speaking of AFTER salvation.

 

[Andy C]

Yes, at least during the times I have listened but is he always right? No because he once said people can be saved after taking the mark. In fact I don't believe any pastor is always right on every subject all the time without fail. No one is except God. Have to add though that I love our pastor Adrian as he always helps clarify a subject. However, the subject I think we are addressing in this thread appears to be whether the life should show a change AFTER, I repeat AFTER salvation. We all know (including Dr.MacArthur) that the unsaved are completely unable to do any kind of saving work. So we are speaking of AFTER salvation. And just to be sure that I am not misunderstood. I am speaking of AFTER salvation.

Im confused, are you speaking of after salvation……

 

[Eric Nicholas]

Sin is missing the mark. Of what? Perfection. My friends, if you don't hit that mark every moment of every day, you are sinning all the milliseconds you aren't hitting the mark and that brings up a point I'd like to make.

"Easy believism" is seen as not taking sin seriously enough. I'd wager the exact opposite is true. We or at least I take it so seriously, I'm so freakishly aware of the breadth of sin, that I have no choice but to cling to the cross and be washed in the blood of Christ because sin ravages all the seconds of all the days. Just because you aren't doing the 8 or so sins you have no problem with, does not mean you aren't sinning. I think Calvinists sell short the concept of holiness and righteousness. I think they miss it by a million miles. Say it in your head again, all the milliseconds of all the days have to hit the mark. Anything else is falling short. What is falling short? Sinning. Not stumbling. Sinning. you are falling short literally thousands of times per day. Yes, I'm hyper aware of sin, not blissfully unaware as charged by the works lot.

You have roughly 60,000 thoughts per day. Do you have them under control? Are all of your thoughts holy? Or even just 1 percent? I'll be very gracious here and submit that you just have 1 percent of your thoughts controlled, that's 600 potential sins right then and there. I don't think Calvinists, John MacArthur or any of the entire lot take sin seriously at all. They say they do. They assert works and behavior, but I promise you they are failing.

Look what just happened to prominent Calvinist Pastor Steven Lawson. He preached behind John MacArthur's own pulpit. Did he surrender his life to the Lord? Was Jesus the Lord of his life while he was committing adultery? He sure projected such for years on end. What if he had died while committing adultery? Would he have gone to Hell because of bad behavior? He was up there berating his desperate congregation saying, "You better repent of your sins or else!" So, no. I take sin very seriously. I think it abounds everywhere and the ONLY escape is Christ crucified. Period. And I bet in that dreadful moment when Pastor Lawson was caught, all he could probably think of was grace.

And therein lies the problem of repentance. It's not what Calvinists say it is. Lawson, MacArthur, et al haven't changed their mind (repentance) on what exactly what accomplished at the cross, nor its holy power to make believers righteous. That's where we get righteousness; the blood of Christ crucified. Not you not saying cuss words or committing adultery like Pastor Lawson just got caught doing. Do I promote these sins? No. We should strive to live set apart. When you don't, you'll be under the remedial correction of God's hand. Some even think he will snuff you out faster or shorten your days. But it has nothing to do with salvation. Zero things.

Imagine standing before God and your account after He asks why He should let you in to eternal rest and you start rattling off all the things you did... Goodness, I can't think of anything worse and there's going to be many people in that dreadful line heading to the dark house. Tetelestai should be the only thing on out of your mouth.

Knowing the power of sin and how pervasive it is makes me and "easy believists" appreciate true grace wholeheartedly. I see sin for the hideous and world-ravaging monster that it is. It's absolutely everywhere. In fact, it is so formidable and so malevolent, it took Divinity to come down and die for me to stay its hand against my soul and that is where my heart, soul, and assurance rest.

My salvation shows nothing but the Savior. When you think of salvation, you better see the cross anytime it crosses your mind, or you have not actually repented of the terminal sentence you have on your head and it's a debt that will be collected very soon and it's one you'll never stop paying off. Compounded eternal interest in a room with no doors.

 

[Kem]

Eric, if you are addressing me, of course I am not speaking of sinless perfection. Nowhere did I ever suggest that. Thankfully there is provision for confession and forgiveness of sins after salvation. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1John 1:9

 

[Kem]

And I am very very frustrated as people keep thinking that I am hinting at works salvation and sinless perfection. I am NOT suggesting either.

 

[Eric Nicholas]

Eric, if you are addressing me, of course I am not speaking of sinless perfection. Nowhere did I ever suggest that. Thankfully there is provision for confession and forgiveness of sins after salvation. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1John 1:9

I do say this as respectfully as I can online, your Calvinist and Lordship Salivation (if that's what you hold to) worldview inescapably affirms it, Kem. It doesn't matter if you said a certain set of words, the beliefs in of themselves affirm works salvation. It's not an opinion but a statement of fact about said doctrines. And if you are those things, yes, I wholeheartedly am addressing you or any onlooker that still thinks they are do-gooders and that your behavior is somehow evidence you're saved, rather than your testimony in Christ's finished work.

If what I said bothers anyone, I'm glad in a good way. With that said, I don't care to go on a merry-go-round about this topic. Calvinism and LS are works salvation and I completely reject both of them, happily and emphatically. I am glad this board does not affirm either of those two doctrines/traditions, as well.

 

[mattfivefour]

Sin is missing the mark. Of what? Perfection. My friends, if you don't hit that mark every moment of every day, you are sinning all the milliseconds you aren't hitting the mark and that brings up a point I'd like to make.

"Easy believism" is seen as not taking sin seriously enough. I'd wager the exact opposite is true. We or at least I take it so seriously, I'm so freakishly aware of the breadth of sin, that I have no choice but to cling to the cross and be washed in the blood of Christ because sin ravages all the seconds of all the days. Just because you aren't doing the 8 or so sins you have no problem with, does not mean you aren't sinning. I think Calvinists sell short the concept of holiness and righteousness. I think they miss it by a million miles. Say it in your head again, all the milliseconds of all the days have to hit the mark. Anything else is falling short. What is falling short? Sinning. Not stumbling. Sinning. you are falling short literally thousands of times per day. Yes, I'm hyper aware of sin, not blissfully unaware as charged by the works lot.

You have roughly 60,000 thoughts per day. Do you have them under control? Are all of your thoughts holy? Or even just 1 percent? I'll be very gracious here and submit that you just have 1 percent of your thoughts controlled, that's 600 potential sins right then and there. I don't think Calvinists, John MacArthur or any of the entire lot take sin seriously at all. They say they do. They assert works and behavior, but I promise you they are failing.

Look what just happened to prominent Calvinist Pastor Steven Lawson. He preached behind John MacArthur's own pulpit. Did he surrender his life to the Lord? Was Jesus the Lord of his life while he was committing adultery? He sure projected such for years on end. What if he had died while committing adultery? Would he have gone to Hell because of bad behavior? He was up there berating his desperate congregation saying, "You better repent of your sins or else!" So, no. I take sin very seriously. I think it abounds everywhere and the ONLY escape is Christ crucified. Period. And I bet in that dreadful moment when Pastor Lawson was caught, all he could probably think of was grace.

And therein lies the problem of repentance. It's not what Calvinists say it is. Lawson, MacArthur, et al haven't changed their mind (repentance) on what exactly what accomplished at the cross, nor its holy power to make believers righteous. That's where we get righteousness; the blood of Christ crucified. Not you not saying cuss words or committing adultery like Pastor Lawson just got caught doing. Do I promote these sins? No. We should strive to live set apart. When you don't, you'll be under the remedial correction of God's hand. Some even think he will snuff you out faster or shorten your days. But it has nothing to do with salvation. Zero things.

Imagine standing before God and your account after He asks why He should let you in to eternal rest and you start rattling off all the things you did... Goodness, I can't think of anything worse and there's going to be many people in that dreadful line heading to the dark house. Tetelestai should be the only thing on out of your mouth.

Knowing the power of sin and how pervasive it is makes me and "easy believists" appreciate true grace wholeheartedly. I see sin for the hideous and world-ravaging monster that it is. It's absolutely everywhere. My salvation shows nothing but the Savior. When you think of salvation, you better see the cross anytime it crosses your mind, or you have not actually repented of the terminal sentence you have on your head and it's a debt that will be collected very soon and it's one you'll never stop paying off. Compounded eternal interest in a room with no doors.

Brilliantly put, brother. Brilliantly said. This is the truth about salvation. Many say, "oh it's all Jesus," but then in their belief system and attitudes actually deny that. They don't intend to, and actually don't recognize that they do that; but that's exactly what they do.

There is a reason why God tells us not to separate the tares from the wheat: it's because we are incapable of judging which is which (Matthew 13:28-29). In the parable Jesus makes it clear that it's not because we might leave some tares behind, but because we are likely to pull out some wheat, mistaking it for tares. The proof of this is the subject of my sermon on Carnal Christians: Lot. Were it not for a passage in the New Testament, I would be convinced that Lot is burning in Hell today. But three times in just two New Testament verses (2 Peter 2:7-8) the Holy Spirit refers to Lot as "righteous". Three times. In just 2 verses. God wants to make sure we did not miss the point.

But how could Lot be considered righteous when you look at his life? Simple. He had faith in God. Just as Abraham's faith was counted to him as righteousness (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:3,9,20,22; Galatians 3:6; James 2:23), so was Lot's. Now, despite some failures, Abraham's life demonstrated a godly character. Lot's did not. But God considered both righteous. See? Salvation truly is of faith alone. And the New Testament makes it clear that that faith is in Messiah alone.

Now, does that mean that somebody can be saved and choose to live exactly as they did before? Does it mean that they can say, "Well, it's up to Jesus to save me; I've said a prayer and now I can live to the flesh as much as I like?" My answer is no. They cannot do that because they are new creations in Christ (if indeed they turned to Christ in truth.) They have to be new because the Holy Spirit has come to take up residence in them; and that will change a person dramatically. Now, that change may not be evident on the outside right away ... and maybe not for a very long time. It depends on the individual. But there WILL be a change. 2 Corinthians 5:17 alone makes that clear. However, I suggest that change is for the individual to note, not necessarily those of us around them.

The Bible is clear that we cannot judge the heart of another individual, and therefore we must not judge another person's motives or spiritual condition. We can judge behavior so as to prayerfully and gently and humbly guide another back to the right path (Galatians 6:1; 2 Corinthians 2:7); and we can judge between sound and unsound doctrine (John 7:24; 1 Thessalonians 5:21). But those are the two exceptions to the "thou shalt not judge" rule. Well, other than the fact that we are to examine ourselves, whether we be in the faith (2nd Corinthians 13: 5), which is a form of judging. But even then we are to rely on what God's Word says and not on our own thinking (1 Corinthians 4:3-4).

Anyway, all of that last paragraph is an aside. The fact is many Christians sadly do not live lives that testify to their salvation; and therefore their lives cannot serve as a witness to the truth of salvation by faith in Christ, or to the power of God in their lives. But, I believe based on God's Word that, if they are indeed saved, they will at least try ... to some extent and in some way. But that is between them and God. Not between them and us. I am sure that those referred to in Romans 8 who refused to eat meat sacrificed to idols thought of those who did eat such meat as probably unsaved. But the entirety of that chapter (and others in Romans) dispels that idea.

I personally love the heart of anyone who desires to live holy, anyone who tries to live holy. God bless them: we all should desire --and try-- to live that way. Such people serve as examples to us. But let us never confuse lack of such holy behavior in a professing Christian as lack of salvation. If you meet Christians whose lives do not reflect a Christian character, pray for them. Pray sincerely, earnestly holding them up in prayer, praying that the Holy Spirit will manifest in them His character. And, for that matter, pray the same thing for yourself. There is not one of us that lives as holy as we should. All of us fail; all of us fall short. And, frankly, if we ever look at ourselves and think we're doing pretty good compared to someone else, we are now walking in self-righteousness. God forbid!

I pray what I have shared here helps someone who is struggling with this issue today work through this topic and come to understanding and peace in their own heart.