Heb 10:26--If we practice sin willfully after having received accurate knowledge( knowing right from wrong) of truth there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left.
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Faith and works
- Thread starter mattfivefour
- Start date
Belief is not even mentioned in those verses. Just the opposite. Works are the subject. Yet, 'I never knew you'. (Matt. 7:23)
Quantrill
Yes, you know all the verses to try and place the Christian under condemnation. Your goal is not to know the truth. Your goal is to condemn.
(Heb. 10) is all about Jesus Christ being the One true Sacrifice. As opposed to the many sacrifices under the Law.
Under the Law you had to continually bring a sacrifice for your continual sins.
But now, (Heb. 10:14) "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified".
But now, (Heb. 10:17-18) "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin."
Thus (Heb. 10:26) "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins."
Do you see? There is no other sacrifice to bring. To we who are believers, the sanctified, God has perfected us forever. Our sins are removed forever.
To go back to Moses Law, which is what the Hebrew Christians were doing, is to "trod under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace." (Heb. 10:29)
To any believer who wants to return to that, return to another sacrifice for their sin, God will bring judgement upon them. (Heb. 10:30-31) It doesn't mean they lose their salvation. But they will face a judgement here from God. Which shall destroy the 'adversaries'. (Heb. 10:27) Not the believer.
Which God truly did in 70 A.D. He destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple. Now they could not go back.
Quantrill
One who works iniquity=practices a sin.
I shared a bible truth. The bible is a two edged sword.
And what is the meaning of a two-edged sword?
1LoverofGod
Well-known
Everyone sins. Even saved believers have a sin nature. But God is Merciful and forgives a repentant believer.
Sin remains until Jesus appears for us and we change to immortal and incorruptible in the likeness of Jesus.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:8-10
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."
1 Corinthians 15:51-54
Teachings of eternal life and teachings of the opposite. God inspired both parts.
Key word=works( practices) iniquity. Works means keeps on doing a sin.= one who practices a sin.
Repent and turn around( Acts 3:19)= stops doing the sin(s)=these sins where both spots assure--will not inherit Gods kingdom( if one practices one of these)= 1Cor 6:9-11, Gal 5:19-21.
1LoverofGod
Well-known
If a saved believer "practices sin and doesn't repent, they don't lose their salvation, they lose Rewards.
Nope. Sorry. In ancient Roman warfare, a single-edged sword was a hacking sword and a two-enged sword was a piercing sword; not, as many people think, a sword that cuts both ways. Thus, when God tells us through Paul that His Word is a two-edged sword He is telling us that His Word pierces. And the rest of that verse (Hebrews 4:12) confirms this: ”it pierces even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It judges the thoughts and intentions of the heart."
Anastacia
Let Him do to me whatever seems good to Him 2Sam15
It has been my understanding that "repentance" means to agree with God about [our] sin. Even changing our actions to stop sinning is not something we can do on our own. (Or otherwise we might boast, claim the credit.)
The Holy Spirit helps us see sin the way God does, but we don't necessarily quit sinning, even the "big" sins. I'm sure there are plenty of true believers who struggle with alcohol, homosexual tendencies, foul language, etc. but God continually works on us, perfecting our faith. Our sins are blotted out by Jesus' blood, not because we turned away from sin.
And I'm so thankful He does it all-- saves me, sanctified me, sustains and grows my faith, and even uses me to do good works so He is glorified! And often, I dont even realize He did a "good work" through me... and I find out later (sometimes even years later) and I get to be amazed that He did what He did!
Again, belief is not even mentioned in (Matt. 7:21-23) Nothing but works. And the works mentioned are good works.......'prophesied in Jesus name', 'cast out devils', 'many wonderful works'. Yet Christ never knew them. They were never saved, though they said they did many wonderful works. Nothing there says they believed.
And, (Matt. 5-7), better known as the 'Sermon on the Mount' is pure law. More strict than the Mosaic Law. It is the Law of the future Kingdom with Christ in Jerusalem ruling over the world.
No, what you are calling a 'truth' is not true. You use verses to put the Christian under law and condemnation. Just because the Bible is a two edged sword doesn't mean you are presenting the truth.
Quantrill
PaidInFull
Well-known
When we put the spotlight on faith alone we can miss the simplicity of how and where and why works fits perfectly in the plan of God with faith so that faith without works is indeed dead. Years back I preached a sermon on Faith, Hope & Love being recognized as Work, Labor & Endurance...
New International Version
We remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ. 1Thes.1:3
When the Holy Spirit inspires us to get involved in doing a good work that we were called to before the world began, it is because He is resident in us and we are called to get involved in supporting the church and/or helping in the community.
However, after a time we realize it takes love to keep at that work for it becomes a labor of love.
We can find that the challenge to continue in this labor of love calls for endurance and others will fall away giving us an extra workload, and so at each level we go deeper into the cost to keep up our good work that we began with enthusiasm in faith, but now the gloss is long gone and it requires endurance and taking up the cross which in turn drives us into the hope we are called to when our works turn out to be costly and or thankless.
Faith saves without works, but faith without works is not a growing, fruitful faith and in that respect it is dead or non productive. Thus Peter reminds us to add to our faith...
3His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
10Therefore, my brothers and sisters,a make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2Pet.1
Lots of babies in Christ have never been taught that Faith, Hope & Love is worked out in Work, Labor & Endurance and that faith needs to be added to, not for us to be saved, but to grow strong in God and lead a fruitful life and to prevent us from stumbling.
This is the obedience we are called to in faith with works.
So called "Christian" cults twist this into faith plus works that save like the Mormons or the JW's or Roman Catholics.
All other false religions say that faith plus works brings us to God or Nirvana or heaven.
Where Christianity stands apart for all other religions and faiths is that we are saved by Christ's works alone and none of our works to the extent saving faith has nothing whatsoever to do with our works.
Amplified Bible
For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God. Eph.2
The last thing to boast of as deserving of salvation is faith plus our works...
22Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matt.7
The thief on the cross exhibited faith plus works...
28They replied, “We want to perform God’s works, too. What should we do?”
29Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.” Jn.6
New International Version
We remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ. 1Thes.1:3
When the Holy Spirit inspires us to get involved in doing a good work that we were called to before the world began, it is because He is resident in us and we are called to get involved in supporting the church and/or helping in the community.
However, after a time we realize it takes love to keep at that work for it becomes a labor of love.
We can find that the challenge to continue in this labor of love calls for endurance and others will fall away giving us an extra workload, and so at each level we go deeper into the cost to keep up our good work that we began with enthusiasm in faith, but now the gloss is long gone and it requires endurance and taking up the cross which in turn drives us into the hope we are called to when our works turn out to be costly and or thankless.
Faith saves without works, but faith without works is not a growing, fruitful faith and in that respect it is dead or non productive. Thus Peter reminds us to add to our faith...
3His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
10Therefore, my brothers and sisters,a make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2Pet.1
Lots of babies in Christ have never been taught that Faith, Hope & Love is worked out in Work, Labor & Endurance and that faith needs to be added to, not for us to be saved, but to grow strong in God and lead a fruitful life and to prevent us from stumbling.
This is the obedience we are called to in faith with works.
So called "Christian" cults twist this into faith plus works that save like the Mormons or the JW's or Roman Catholics.
All other false religions say that faith plus works brings us to God or Nirvana or heaven.
Where Christianity stands apart for all other religions and faiths is that we are saved by Christ's works alone and none of our works to the extent saving faith has nothing whatsoever to do with our works.
Amplified Bible
For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God. Eph.2
The last thing to boast of as deserving of salvation is faith plus our works...
22Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matt.7
The thief on the cross exhibited faith plus works...
28They replied, “We want to perform God’s works, too. What should we do?”
29Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.” Jn.6
Andy C
Well-known
Also, they lose fellowship with Him as John wrote in the book of 1 John.
The NT teaches-Law will be written on ones heart=the new covenant=love.
So. That does not change your error in your use of (Matt. 7:21-23) to say the believer must obey law or he loses his salvation. As well as other verses where I showed you were mistaken.
And, if the New Testament teaches what you just said, give the verses. And then give the truth of what you say they reveal.
I gave you the context and other Scripture that show the verses you tried to use to put the believer under law and condemnation, is false. And you don't try and show me how I am wrong with those verses. You just find another one, somewhere.
There is nothing wrong with the Law. The wrong lies in our inability to keep the law of God. Any law of God. Which is why God had to make our salvation, our acceptance before Him, based on Him, and not us.
Believers, both Old and New Testament were saved by Grace. Never by Law. Being under the Law didn't save anyone. The Law condemns.
Quantrill
1LoverofGod
Well-known
Actually the New Covenant is in Jesus Alone, it is Redemption and Salvation based on faith in the shed blood of Christ Jesus to take away sin, not on repeated sacrifices or any other kind of work.
Under the Old covenant the sacrifices of the blood of animals only had forgiveness, but couldn't remove sins. Under The New Covenant of Jesus it gives The removal of sins and Redemption and Salvation that could only come through Jesus shed blood.
Sacrifice Given in the Love of God to anyone who believes in Jesus.
John 3:16
pixelpusher
Well-known
What is the "will of God" here that is required?
It is this:
That is why Jesus' "yoke is light". He takes our burden of sin, past, present and future. We can rest in Him, and as we abide in Him, we will produce fruit.
We are not sinners because we sin, but we sin because we are sinners.
@servant1, if you could perhaps share a bit of your background and testimony, perhaps we could help you better? Maybe you have done that elsewhere and I've missed it.
Also remember there were not verses in the original scriptures, those were just added to help us navigate and reference. We can't just take one part and make it mean what we think it does or want it to.
I know when I got saved, I was on a tear to clean up my life, I was going to be perfect and get everyone else around me saved. I fell flat on my face in short order, and kept failing and trying again, which led to a long season of doubting my salvation; it was a miserable and terrifying time. Eventually I learned Jesus did it ALL, and it was settled.
Eric Nicholas
Well-known
Tetelestai!
