Lordship Salvation, Part 1 (Matthew 16:24-25) Andy Woods

[Cheeky200386]

I would say that I'm skeptical of that but I can't know the hearts of man. Homosexuality seems to me to be warring against the natural order that God created.

Plus they have reprobate minds that are also warring against God.

 

[Andiamo]

I appreciate your responses. At the time I said that only God can know their hearts but I did emphasize the truth and infallibility of the Bible, not only what it says about homosexuals but even liars and then I emphasized the cross again. I told her how Jesus upped the game when it came to the law including adultery saying that even those who just look at a person with lust have committed adultery and she said “Oh I don’t agree with that…”
I just find this whole time we are in confusing and greyed and mucky and I hate the influence it has on my unsaved family.
I do my best to walk before them all and let my light shine while just trying to be real at the same time and not act like I am perfect…and they see my good works but I honestly wonder if my good works look any differently to them than any “good” person of their choosing because of all of this confusion.

 

[Amethyst]

I do my best to walk before them all and let my light shine while just trying to be real at the same time and not act like I am perfect…and they see my good works but I honestly wonder if my good works look any differently to them than any “good” person of their choosing because of all of this confusion.

I can only conclude that it's mostly as simple as this, from Romans 1

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. .........................For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,


They suppress the truth, because they want it suppressed.

 

[Goodboy]

@Goodboy What say ye?

I have not read through all of this thread, so I am not sure who is for what here. Therefor I will just give my two cents for what it is worth.

I am totally against Lordship salvation as I understand it. It states that you must believe and then respond in some way like trying to be good to be saved. We know that doing something is a work, but so is trying. So if one is not trying to be good and changing their behavior are we saying they are not saved? If that is the case salvation is not a free gift. As soon as there is anything and I mean anything that you have to do other than believe and accept, it is no longer a free gift.

Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Romans 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Paul makes it very clear that salvation is a totally FREE GIFT. It is really very simple to understand though Satan wants us to think like the world. You know like those TV commercials that say to request some product that is FREE and all you have to do is pay for whatever. Then the product is not truly free. Not obeying God does not mean we don't accept him as Lord. You accept your parents, don't you? Are they no longer your parents if you decide not to obey them. No, you can still accept them as your parents. It is a faulty concept to say if you don't obey him, you have not accepted him.

I agree that really the main use of the word LORD in the Bible is a title of the only true God. Now this you must believe to be saved. If you don't believe that Jesus is the only true God, you have not accepted the Gospel. ALL religions except for Christianity require you to do something either before or after to be saved. This is why I am a Christian today. I had no excuse not to become a Christian before God, because even if Christianity was wrong, there was no risk for me to believed and accepted it. Now after I believed it, I found out it was true.

There are many today that do not accept Christianity because they feel that they cannot live up to being a Christian. That was something I kind of thought to be honest. However it is FREE! There is nothing you have to live up to! This is a lie that Satan makes people think so they won't get saved in the first place. Sure, there are many things Christians should do, but not in order to be saved.

One last try. Here is an example of salvation. To be a citizen in the U.S. you must be born here or plage to accept and believe what the U.S. stands for to become one. Once you are a citizen you stay a citizen even if you break the law! You will get punished if you break the law, but you are still a citizen.

Again if salvation is FREE and it is, there is absolutely nothing you have to do other than believe and accept.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

You cannot mix any and I mean any works with grace!

Goodboy

 

[Goodboy]

An Endless Loop!


Unbeliever:
What must I do to be saved?

Christian:
Accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior.

Unbeliever:
OK then, please lead me in that prayer.


Christian: (Two weeks later)
I have not noticed a change in you and you continue to sin. Therefor you must not be saved.

Unbeliever:
You mean I’m not saved?

Christian:
No, because as I have said, you continue to sin and have not changed your lifestyle.

Unbeliever:
So if I stop sinning and change my lifestyle, then I will be saved?

Christian:
No, because you cannot earn your salvation, it’s a FREE GIFT from God.

Unbeliever:
So then what must I do?

Christian:
You must accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior, but this time mean it!

Unbeliever:
OK, maybe I was not sincere enough, let’s try it again. Please lead me in that prayer again.


Christian: (Two months later)
Again I have not noticed a change in you and you continue to sin. Therefor you must not be saved.

Unbeliever:
You mean I’m still not saved?

Christian:
No, because as I have said, you continue to sin and have not changed your lifestyle.

Unbeliever:
So now what must I do?

Christian:
You must accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior, but this time really mean it!

Unbeliever:
I really meant it last time. You keep telling me it’s a FREE GIFT and that I need to accept it. I keep accepting it, but then you say I don’t have it. I ask you how to get it and you say to do what I have already done. This reminds me of “The Song That Never Ends”. When you get to the end, it starts all over again. It’s kind of like a riddle or something!

Well, if God wanted to confuse me he certainly has! If this is God’s plan, then I must say it’s not very just. Why not just say in PLAIN ENGLISH what I need to do to be saved!

Christian:
Hum! Now I’m a little confused!

Actually the unbeliever became saved when they first prayed. Their actions after the fact will make a difference in how well their life goes while on earth and what rewards they receive in Heaven. The act of salvation is a ONE-TIME event and is a FREE GIFT from God.

Goodboy

 

[Cheeky200386]

I agree that born again believers will change over time just by being spending time with Jesus and if they don’t because they love sin, they will be disciplined by God and lose rewards.

I can’t say how quickly they will change and a lot of that change is internal. God knows though. I base someone’s salvation status on their testimony of Faith or lack there of. If they don’t have one, I focus on sharing the Gospel. How much they sin doesn’t help me but I do worry about the consequences of their sin and warn them if I can.

I appreciate your responses. At the time I said that only God can know their hearts but I did emphasize the truth and infallibility of the Bible, not only what it says about homosexuals but even liars and then I emphasized the cross again. I told her how Jesus upped the game when it came to the law including adultery saying that even those who just look at a person with lust have committed adultery and she said “Oh I don’t agree with that…”
I just find this whole time we are in confusing and greyed and mucky and I hate the influence it has on my unsaved family.
I do my best to walk before them all and let my light shine while just trying to be real at the same time and not act like I am perfect…and they see my good works but I honestly wonder if my good works look any differently to them than any “good” person of their choosing because of all of this confusion.

I feel your frustration. I’ve had similar conversations with my sister. She claims she agrees with the Romans Road but then at the end will say I will follow Jesus my own way. I just tell her that Jesus’s way is the only way, there is no other and she doesn’t respond. She is very pro lgbt and can’t accept God because he says it’s a sin. Yet she will agree that she is a sinner and needs Jesus to save her when I tell her but that’s where it ends. She doesn’t agree with God’s definition of sin.

She hasn’t been born again, and only agrees with the parts she likes and rejects the rest. She loves the part of love your neighbor and repeats Judge not lest you be judged as all lost people do, but it ends there.

 

[Goodboy]

Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Matthew 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Matthew 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

I am sure some on this thread are asking if salvation is totally free, what is Jesus saying in Matthew 16:24 through 16:26? Well the first thing for those who do not know this, we must allow the Holy Spirit help us understand Bible scripture. That said I will explain each verse.

Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

The key to understanding this verse is understanding what Jesus does not say. He did not say if any man does not come after him is not saved. Those who come after Jesus are his disciples. Do you think only his disciples are saved? Don't you think to be Jesus disciple that you would have to deny yourself?

Matthew 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

You may say Jesus is now speaking about saving one's life, isn't he? Yes, but what is his context? He is speaking of seeking the world for internal life and in the second part he says they shall only find internal life by accepting Jesus.

Matthew 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

This verse helps to make the other two verses clear where Jesus says you can seek after the world instead of accepting Jesus, but you will lose your soul.

Here is a rule we ALL need to follow.

Never let what is implied override that which is clearly stated!!!

Meaning, don't let a Bible verse that is not clear to you or you don't understand, cause you to disbelieve a Bible verse that you clearly understand!

Goodboy

 

[Andiamo]

feel your frustration. I’ve had similar conversations with my sister. She claims she agrees with the Romans Road but then at the end will say I will follow Jesus my own way. I just tell her that Jesus’s way is the only way, there is no other and she doesn’t respond. She is very pro lgbt and can’t accept God because he says it’s a sin. Yet she will agree that she is a sinner and needs Jesus to save her when I tell her but that’s where it ends. She doesn’t agree with God’s definition of sin.

She hasn’t been born again, and only agrees with the parts she likes and rejects the rest. She loves the part of love your neighbor and repeats Judge not lest you be judged as all lost people do, but it ends there.

Oh my gosh I feel yours, leading her down the Romans road and her doing that at the end!! YES my Mom does the same thing…she will totally agree with me when I talk about Christ and responded affirmatively when I asked her if she believes that Jesus died for her sin…but then would spout off “this is what I believe…” in the very next sentence and add her own made up beliefs on to it. I realized that she believes that HE believed that He was dying for our sin when he hung on the cross. It is more like a demonstration to her than an action that actually did something for her. No matter what I say to her and my new age aunt they twist it all around to their liking. So I rarely say anything now unless they bring it up. Lord break through!!! You know Lord what it will take to get through to mine and Cheeky’s family. You know them better than they know themselves. Do whatever it takes, Lord…please Lord. Bring that experience of Saul into their lives and accost them…demolish their false gods and bring to nothing everything they believe as you scorch their minds and hearts in the Light of Your truth! In the Name that is above every name, the Way Truth and Life. Amen!

 

[Andiamo]

Meaning, don't let a Bible verse that is not clear to you or you don't understand, cause you to disbelieve a Bible verse that you clearly understand!

Excellent and I saw this very same application in an article that was posted here on eternal security. That is how people mess that up. They take a verse that doesn’t seem to fit with eternal security and use it to negate everything else that is clearly stated about our eternal security.
So the same with saving faith.

 

[Hol]

So if one is not trying to be good and changing their behavior are we saying they are not saved?

You scored Goodboy

The LS preachers/teachers direct their followers to look for behaviors that aligns with sainthood, their own -- but others first. Their culture encourages lots of finger pointing, not humility. Calvin adopted many beliefs from the Catholics in Rome, including their control by guilt trips.

They commonly prefer an intellectual approach to their culture and books. Typically they live in a special pride-of-life bubble, and they can proudly prove it using Scripture.

They eventually use LS to assert authority. Their authority is not biblical, it is works based.

From our dear brother Eric:

And easy believism is a catty term. You believe in hard believism? See how goofy that is? I promise you that none of you have turned from your sins. Just because you don't cuss, watch horror movies, and haven't had an abortion means little. You better hit the mark to perfection every moment of every day for your entire existence or you're a sinner and you are still in sin.

Amen

 

[Goodboy]

And easy believism is a catty term. You believe in hard believism? See how goofy that is?

Do I believe in easy believism? Absolutely, and so does Jesus!

Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Matthew 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

By yoke, Jesus is speaking of ownership (salvation) like how people owned an Oxen.
By burden, Jesus is speaking of what he asks us to do after salvation meaning our Christian walk.

 

[mattfivefour]

For me it is as simple as this: Jesus Christ and what he did on the Cross is the entire root of our salvation. Our obedience and our works are the fruit that grows from that root.

The fruit does not produce itself. The branch does not produce the fruit. The nature of the tree produces the fruit and the tree exists solely because of the root.

Does fruit always grow at the same rate? No. Does it always grow regardless of external conditions? Not always. Drought, excessive rain, harsh weather, extreme heat, bitter cold and frost will inhibit the growth of the fruit. Until the Christian is able to trust God to the extent that externals no longer trouble them, their fruit will be affected. And for many of us, the development of such trust can be a lifelong experience.

But a fruit tree that does not seem to bear much or sweet fruit does not cease to be a fruit tree. It is merely a tree that has been beaten about and not properly cared for. Since God is the perfect husbandman, then others are the cause of the beatings; and a lack of proper care must be laid at our own door. But none of this affects the root or our attachment to it. Our rewards in Heaven will be based on how well we care for what Christ entrusted to us; but on the basis of 1st Corinthians 3:15, while our rewards may be lost, our salvation will never be. So on that basis alone, Lordship Salvation is wrong.

 

[Kem]

I guess the issue for me is how one defines Lordship Salvation. Jesus is indeed the Lord, master, owner, creator of everything. He alone can and did make the full payment for my sin and the sin of the whole world. When I called on Him in the faith that also comes from Him, for salvation, He saved me and gave me the Holy Spirit. The wonderful Holy Spirit works in each Christian to make us more like Jesus and give us a desire to obey. "we are not our own, we are bought with a price". He now owns us.

Sanctification is not instant, it is often slow and in fits and starts and never complete while we remain in these bodies. However it is the work of the Holy Spirit and we can't do it on our own. However, just as God gives us a free will to choose Him, we have a free will to choose to cooperate and in fact we are commanded to do so.
2 Peter1:5-8
But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge,
to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness,
to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.
For if these things are yours and abound, [you] will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Peter1:15-16
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
Eph. 4:17-24
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Eph. 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

These are not obscure Scriptures but very plain commands for the Christian. Of course we will fall short many times but it should become the increasing cry of our hearts to ask the Lord to help us obey because we are unable without His help.

As Martin Luther said

“Here I stand, I can do no other, so help me God. Amen.”​

 

[AnyMinute]

I guess the issue for me is how one defines Lordship Salvation. Jesus is indeed the Lord, master, owner, creator of everything. He alone can and did make the full payment for my sin and the sin of the whole world. When I called on Him in the faith that also comes from Him, for salvation, He saved me and gave me the Holy Spirit. The wonderful Holy Spirit works in each Christian to make us more like Jesus and give us a desire to obey. "we are not our own, we are bought with a price". He now owns us.

Sanctification is not instant, it is often slow and in fits and starts and never complete while we remain in these bodies. However it is the work of the Holy Spirit and we can't do it on our own. However, just as God gives us a free will to choose Him, we have a free will to choose to cooperate and in fact we are commanded to do so.

These are not obscure Scriptures but very plain commands for the Christian. Of course we will fall short many times but it should become the increasing cry of our hearts to ask the Lord to help us obey because we are unable without His help.

Hi Kem- I hope you won't mind me using your post to bring out a point about sanctification that hasn't really been discussed in this thread about the errors of Lordship Salvation.
First, I agree with all you wrote above and in other posts about our need to participate in the process of sanctification, which of course can only take place after we are Justified.

The problems with L.S. have been pointed out throughout this thread and they have nothing to do with correctly recognizing, believing, or submitting to Jesus as Lord, God, Creator or any other truth of who He is. It has everything to do with requiring belief in these and many of the attributes of the sanctification process before you can be Justified, as those who teach Lordship Salvation do, sometimes in a very subtle way, other times not so much.

The point I wanted to suggest here (not directed at Kem) that is not being addressed in this thread is that Jesus is not just our only means of justification, He is literally our sanctification also. He not only justified us, He sanctified us! So that no matter where we may be in that "lifelong process" we are always fully sanctified before the Father, through the Son.
If you or I were to have physically died moments after we placed our faith in Christ alone for our salvation, we would be fully justified and sanctified with out any good works or other act of obedience to show for it. By His once and for all sacrifice He has perfected us.

There are many verses that I believe will support this such as:

1 Corinthians 1:30
But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were [d]sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Hebrews 12:14
Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:
(my addition, this word used for holiness here has direct ties to the word sanctification)

2 Thess 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

I think we have to acknowledge that there are distinctions in scripture between how God views us through the redemptive work of Christ which includes all aspects of salvation (justification,sanctification, and glorification) and the role we have in our submission, willingness, obedience, participation, etc. in the work of sanctification before men on this Earth.

By saying Jesus is our sanctification, I in no way minimize the biblical commands of scripture to bring this flesh into submission. There is a proper way that God lays out in His word for us to conduct ourselves and we all have a requirement to take heed, for He knows the importance of us demonstrating that new nature, not only amongst (and for) ourselves, but in front of this lost world also.

As so many have said in this thread already, it is a process that will never be perfected by us in this flesh. That is why He is the perfecter of our sanctification before the Father. Those who are In Christ are already perfected positionally, here we're still learning to behave and become who we already are ( I think I read that one from Jack K.)


Now I may take some heat for the above and I mean not to disrespect any here. I will gladly welcome any correction from my brothers and sisters In Christ.

 

[Kem]

Yes, thank you for clarifying on positional sanctification.

 

[Andiamo]

I agree with the two posts above.
I love how Paul said “not that I have arrived.” It is such a comfort to me.

 

[mattfivefour]

Hi Kem- I hope you won't mind me using your post to bring out a point about sanctification that hasn't really been discussed in this thread about the errors of Lordship Salvation.
First, I agree with all you wrote above and in other posts about our need to participate in the process of sanctification, which of course can only take place after we are Justified.

The problems with L.S. have been pointed out throughout this thread and they have nothing to do with correctly recognizing, believing, or submitting to Jesus as Lord, God, Creator or any other truth of who He is. It has everything to do with requiring belief in these and many of the attributes of the sanctification process before you can be Justified, as those who teach Lordship Salvation do, sometimes in a very subtle way, other times not so much.

The point I wanted to suggest here (not directed at Kem) that is not being addressed in this thread is that Jesus is not just our only means of justification, He is literally our sanctification also. He not only justified us, He sanctified us! So that no matter where we may be in that "lifelong process" we are always fully sanctified before the Father, through the Son.
If you or I were to have physically died moments after we placed our faith in Christ alone for our salvation, we would be fully justified and sanctified with out any good works or other act of obedience to show for it. By His once and for all sacrifice He has perfected us.

There are many verses that I believe will support this such as:

1 Corinthians 1:30
But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were [d]sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Hebrews 12:14
Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:
(my addition, this word used for holiness here has direct ties to the word sanctification)

2 Thess 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

I think we have to acknowledge that there are distinctions in scripture between how God views us through the redemptive work of Christ which includes all aspects of salvation (justification,sanctification, and glorification) and the role we have in our submission, willingness, obedience, participation, etc. in the work of sanctification before men on this Earth.

By saying Jesus is our sanctification, I in no way minimize the biblical commands of scripture to bring this flesh into submission. There is a proper way that God lays out in His word for us to conduct ourselves and we all have a requirement to take heed, for He knows the importance of us demonstrating that new nature, not only amongst (and for) ourselves, but in front of this lost world also.

As so many have said in this thread already, it is a process that will never be perfected by us in this flesh. That is why He is the perfecter of our sanctification before the Father. Those who are In Christ are already perfected positionally, here we're still learning to behave and become who we already are ( I think I read that one from Jack K.)


Now I may take some heat for the above and I mean not to disrespect any here. I will gladly welcome any correction from my brothers and sisters In Christ.

Brother, you have written something very important there. Based on the totality of Scripture on the subject, the point you are making is absolutely correct: we are each right now fully sanctified on the basis of Jesus Christ's sacrifice alone. There is nothing we can do to add to that. And it occurred the moment we were born again.

So what is the purpose of what we call "sanctification" in this life? Why should we be living holy (or at least trying to live holy?) Well, to me as I examine Scripture, there are two reasons.

1. We should live a sanctified life because it is evidence to us (and eventually, I hope, to others) that we have indeed been born again. It proves there is something in us that is leading us in a godly direction. A good tree will eventually bring forth good fruit (Matthew 12:33); but note that it will occur at the time of God's choosing (Psalm 1:3), for by His grace and plan we each have our own "season" in which to come to maturity. And that fact, as we shall see, is relevant to the second point regarding the need for living a sanctified life.
2. We should live a sanctified life because it demonstrates we are Christ's and thereby lends credence to the truth that He lives and His salvation is a very real thing, not merely some religious belief. Therefore a holy life, a life that is different from the usual life of this world, empowers our testimony of the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. It means that we're not just saying words, not just spouting religious dogma, but telling the truth and showing it is true by the way we live. In other words when we live holy, we are proving the truth of God's Word and giving our listener a reason to believe for him or her self.

The problem with lordship salvation, as I've stated many times, is that it makes the fruit of our salvation part of the root of our salvation. And it does so because it fails to properly understand Scripture. Let me give just one example.

In 1 Peter 1:15-16 we are told, "But as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, 'Be holy, for I am holy.'" The last part of that passage is a repetition of words found in Leviticus 22:44-45 and Leviticus19:2. But there is a difference. In the Hebrew of Leviticus it reads as a command; but in the Greek of Peter it does not. The verse 15 verb translated in the NKJV (and a number of other translations) as "you also be holy" is indeed a command (although the Greek contains the sense that this is something that happens to you as well as it being something you do.) And if is important to note that it is referring not to your inner nature but the way you live your life. But, the "Be holy" of verse 16 is not a command at all but actually is a simple verb in the future tense; therefore, it actually says "you will be" or "you shall be" holy. Further it is in a Greek voice called the Middle voice, which has no equivalent in English and therefore is problematic to translate accurately. The koiné Greek middle voice contains both a passive and an active sense, which means you are both the receiver of an action as well as the doer. If you can wrap your head around that, then when you combine all of this -- future tense, middle voice-- you wind up with a translation that accurately captures the meaning of the original Greek-- God saying, "You will be holy because I am holy." In other words, this is a simple statement of fact ... namely that because God is holy, so we shall be holy. Our holiness will follow naturally from God's holiness. And we can be assured of that because God not only tells us this but indwells us so as to produce it.

You see in the Old Testament it was given as a command for the purpose of the law. Remember, no person could fully obey any facet of the law perfectly. It was given so as to lead people to Christ (Galatians 3:24). By showing us God's standards and letting mankind learn that they could never meet those standards, people had no choice but to turn the Messiah to make them right with God. But In the New Testament, because of Christ's sacrifice making us right with God, we no longer have to try to obey but, instead, are given the power to obey by the Holy Spirit within us. In other words, the burden is no longer on us to obey; rather, obedience will be produced in us by God Himself.

But note that we do have a part to play. Remember the "be holy" is in the middle voice. This means that the holiness produced by God in our lives requires our cooperation. We need to yield ourselves to God. We need to yield ourselves to the leading and the urgings of the Holy Spirit within us. If we read something regarding character or behavior in Scripture and realize that we are not like that, we need to instantly call out to God, admit our failing and our inadequacy, and ask him to help us change that thing in us. If we are faithful in the seeking and the asking, we can be assured that we will receive what we want (Matthew 7:7-8).

I hope this helps believers understand this very important topic. And I pray it helps everyone understand why Lordship Salvation (which teaches that you must do these things to actually be saved) is wrong. Christ produced it all for us, we just have to learn to live in it.

 

[Hol]

But In the New Testament, because of Christ's sacrifice making us right with God, we no longer have to try to obey but, instead, are given the power to obey by the Holy Spirit within us. In other words, the burden is no longer on us to obey; rather, obedience will be produced in us by God Himself.

But note that we do have a part to play. Remember the "be holy" is in the middle voice. This means that the holiness produced by God in our lives requires our cooperation. We need to yield ourselves to God. We need to yield ourselves to the leading and the urgings of the Holy Spirit within us. If we read something regarding character or behavior in Scripture and realize that we are not like that, we need to instantly call out to God, admit our failing and our inadequacy, and ask him to help us change that thing in us.

Thanks Adrian & AnyMinute, very solid posts

Because I wasn't raised around churches I have found it painfully humbling to recognize the depths of my sins. And I need to stick with that awareness, including that only God can pull me through this.

It's tempting to pretend God's work in my life will make me like a Girl Scout because then I can indulge my flesh to make it happen.

When I first started attending church around 2011 it seemed like such an odd social setting. People who didn't know me were big on hearty handshakes and basic love-bombing. But when I tried a Calvinist church things were revealed during my Bible daily home study time: loving God took a backseat to their lofty intellectualism and good works so I spent some time studying a few non-Calvinists.

So yeah, we all can be hypocritical but God loves us and that's what matters. Not academics, not becoming good scouts, not guilt trips on LS. And the Lord has worked on me to steer me away from the proud claim of Calvinists that THEY are truly honoring God's Sovereignty. They can twist a person into a pretzel fighting for that one lofty claim. No thanks.