Faith and works

[1LoverofGod]

To work out our faith means to demonstrate our Renewed minds, Romans 12:2, and produce the fruit that comes from our faith in what Jesus taught us, Matthew 7:17-20, and to also demonstrate our love for Jesus in keeping his commands. John 14:15

The works of our faith will be visibly evident to those who see us, as Jesus said.....

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven
Matthew 5:16

 

[servant1]

Have you ceased from sin?

All sin. The righteous do not do these sins=false god worship-or 1Cor 6:9-11,,Gal 5:19-21--Paul mentions spiritism=Pharmacia( Greek) thus drug addiction is a part of that=99% on earth do one of those.

 

[servant1]

Again, what 'Biblical truth are you stating?

Again, (James 2:17) says "...faith if it hath not works, is dead, being alone". So what? What are you saying that means?

No. The tone of 'observe my commandments' is far different then your use of 'obey'. Which is why you use it.

Quantrill

Obey is exactly what observe my commandments is teaching. 1Sam 15:22-To obey is better than sacrifice-- Rom 6:16-we are slaves because we obey,-- 2Thess 1:8-- vengeance upon those who do not obey.

 

[1LoverofGod]

All sin. The righteous do not do these sins=false god worship-or 1Cor 6:9-11,,Gal 5:19-21--Paul mentions spiritism=Pharmacia( Greek) thus drug addiction is a part of that=99% on earth do one of those.

Help me understand what you are saying.
Are you saying that you do not sin?
Amethyst asked "have you ceased from sin?" and your first response was
"All sin."
Are you implying that you don't sin?
If you are, that goes against what scripture says,

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
1 John 1:8

A saved believer is not sinless, but we sin Less.

 

[Quantrill]

@Kaatje

I appreciate all you have said. And I believe what (James) has said in (2:17).

You seem to be saying that the only fruit, the only works, that the believer will do, will be those of the Holy Spirit. And if we see any other works of sin, then that one is not saved. I may be mistaken but that is what it appears to me you are saying.

In other words, do you expect a believer to never produce works of the flesh, works of sin, bad fruit, again, once he is saved?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Obey is exactly what observe my commandments is teaching. 1Sam 15:22-To obey is better than sacrifice-- Rom 6:16-we are slaves because we obey,-- 2Thess 1:8-- vengeance upon those who do not obey.

Again, what Biblical truth are you trying to say?

You have produced some verses, but you don't say what truth it is you are stating.

No. Your use of 'OBEY' is not the same as 'observe my commandments'.

Quantrill

 

[Everlasting Life]

Perhaps this passage can bring resolution to that James passage:

For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed, both springing from faith and leading to faith [disclosed in a way that awakens more faith]. As it is written and forever remains written, “The just and upright shall live by faith.”

Romans 1:17 AMP (a translation that pulls out the various meaning in context, of Greek and Hebrew)

Something I keep in mind with James is the very first portion of the book, where in 1:2, James addresses the people he's writing to as brothers. This means these are saved people who've already placed faith in Jesus. Given the Romans passage above, it would be very reasonable to understand this faith passage in James as serving faith, born out of saving faith. We need to place faith in Jesus to be saved and we need faith to continue to walk, by the power of the Holy Spirit, in our salvation (but our salvation is never compromised). We are saved by faith in Jesus and as a saved person, we live (walk) by faith in Jesus as He leads us into the works he has for us. All of the Christian's life is to be sourced out of faith, depending on the Holy Spirit (rather than humanly attempting to accomplish God's work for us).

As I understand the bible, any works of a saved person simply reveals the source of those works.....saving faith in Jesus, which leads one in faith to do the works the Lord wishes us to complete in order to earn our crowns (for rewards, not salvation).

2 Corinthians 10:15 seems to point to this:

Nor do we boast and claim credit for the work someone else has done. Instead, we hope that your faith will grow so that the boundaries of our work among you will be extended.

What I glean from this is: it's saving faith growing into serving faith towards the works God has which allows the Gospel (boundaries of our work among you extended) to move further beyond the initially saved church of Corinth. So, this church is encouraged to move from faith to faith.

In the Romans passage it says that 'the just and upright shall live by faith'. What makes a person just and upright? Faith in Jesus. So then as I understand this passage it's those who've placed faith in Jesus (the just and upright) that also live by faith.

 

[1LoverofGod]

Perhaps this passage can bring resolution to that James passage:

For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed, both springing from faith and leading to faith [disclosed in a way that awakens more faith]. As it is written and forever remains written, “The just and upright shall live by faith.”

Romans 1:17 AMP (a translation that pulls out the various meaning in context, of Greek and Hebrew)

Something I keep in mind with James is the very first portion of the book, where in 1:2, James addresses the people he's writing to as brothers. This means these are saved people who've already placed faith in Jesus. Given the Romans passage above, it would be very reasonable to understand this faith passage in James as serving faith, born out of saving faith. We need to place faith in Jesus to be saved and we need faith to continue to walk, by the power of the Holy Spirit, in our salvation (but our salvation is never compromised). We are saved by faith in Jesus and as a saved person, we live (walk) by faith in Jesus as He leads us into the works he has for us. All of the Christian's life is to be sourced out of faith, depending on the Holy Spirit (rather than humanly attempting to accomplish God's work for us).

As I understand the bible, any works of a saved person simply reveals the source of those works.....saving faith in Jesus, which leads one in faith to do the works the Lord wishes us to complete in order to earn our crowns (for rewards, not salvation).

2 Corinthians 10:15 seems to point to this:

Nor do we boast and claim credit for the work someone else has done. Instead, we hope that your faith will grow so that the boundaries of our work among you will be extended.

What I glean from this is: it's saving faith growing into serving faith towards the works God has which allows the Gospel (boundaries of our work among you extended) to move further beyond the initially saved church of Corinth. So, this church is encouraged to move from faith to faith.

Wonderful explanation.
Context matters.
When we read a Scripture verse it helps to read above and below that verse to get the gist of what the writer is implying.
And to do as you did was wise, to go further into other scriptures in the Bible to find verses that compliment the verse you are using and strengthen the defense in how you are using that verse .
That enforces an argument you are trying to make to convince someone you are explaining that verse to.

God's Word defends itself...

"For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart"
Hebrews 4:12

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

Wonderful explanation.
Context matters.
When we read a Scripture verse it helps to read above and below that verse to get the gist of what the writer is implying.
And to do as you did was wise, to go further into other scriptures in the Bible to find verses that compliment the verse you are using and strengthen the defense in how you are using that verse .
That enforces an argument you are trying to make to convince someone you are explaining that verse to.

God's Word defends itself...

"For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart"
Hebrews 4:12

1000% agree Rose, it's no good quoting 2 or 3 bible verses willy nilly without taking int the full context of the verse .

Scripture doesn't contradict itself

 

[servant1]

Help me understand what you are saying.
Are you saying that you do not sin?
Amethyst asked "have you ceased from sin?" and your first response was
"All sin."
Are you implying that you don't sin?
If you are, that goes against what scripture says,

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
1 John 1:8

A saved believer is not sinless, but we sin Less.

We all sin, the righteous sin in small ways-They do not do the unacceptable sins mentioned at 1 Cor 6:9-11 and Gal 5:19-21--Both spots are clear--will not inherit Gods kingdom if one practices one of those sins or do them willfully. Paul Mentions--this is what some of you were=past tense. They stopped doing those unacceptable sins.

 

[servant1]

Again, what Biblical truth are you trying to say?

You have produced some verses, but you don't say what truth it is you are stating.

No. Your use of 'OBEY' is not the same as 'observe my commandments'.

Quantrill

Obeying =observe my commandments--(John 3:36= Those who disobey Jesus will not see life, Gods wrath remains upon them.)) Jesus meant every word he said, every word he said is his Fathers will.

 

[servant1]

Kaatje-- I owe you an apology. My statement to you was false about you not loving truth. It was uncaring, and thoughtless of me to say that to one such as you who obviously loves God and his truth. i hope you can forgive me. I am very sorry. servant1

 

[1LoverofGod]

We all sin, the righteous sin in small ways-They do not do the unacceptable sins mentioned at 1 Cor 6:9-11 and Gal 5:19-21--Both spots are clear--will not inherit Gods kingdom if one practices one of those sins or do them willfully. Paul Mentions--this is what some of you were=past tense. They stopped doing those unacceptable sin

Sin is sin. There's no one good. No not one. But The blood of Jesus has washed every sin from anyone who believes in Him and is saved.

 

[Amethyst]

@Kaatje

I appreciate all you have said. And I believe what (James) has said in (2:17).

You seem to be saying that the only fruit, the only works, that the believer will do, will be those of the Holy Spirit. And if we see any other works of sin, then that one is not saved. I may be mistaken but that is what it appears to me you are saying.

In other words, do you expect a believer to never produce works of the flesh, works of sin, bad fruit, again, once he is saved?

Quantrill

Sometimes GotQuestions.org articles do come across that way
Sort of Lordship Salvation-esque

 

[Andy C]

We all sin, the righteous sin in small ways-They do not do the unacceptable sins mentioned at 1 Cor 6:9-11 and Gal 5:19-21--Both spots are clear--will not inherit Gods kingdom if one practices one of those sins or do them willfully. Paul Mentions--this is what some of you were=past tense. They stopped doing those unacceptable sins.

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

Sometimes GotQuestions.org articles do come across that way
Sort of Lordship Salvation-esque

Someone on this forum said they started off well and then kinda went into a calvinistic direction

 

[Amethyst]

Someone on this forum said they started off well and then kinda went into a calvinistic direction

Yes they do tend that way
Even though their eschatology is premillennial
Lot of their articles are informative but they can definitely make you question your own salvation, despite having our full trust in Jesus shed blood to save you.

 

[servant1]

Sin is sin. There's no one good. No not one. But The blood of Jesus has washed every sin from anyone who believes in Him and is saved.

Actually the bible teaches( Acts 3:19) that one must repent and turn around( stop doing the sin) to get sins blotted out.)) If all sin was washed away then why do all pay their own wages of sin= death?

 

[1LoverofGod]

Sin is sin. There's no one good. No not one. But The blood of Jesus has washed every sin from anyone who believes in Him and is saved.

I have trouble with the belief that because someone's sin is greater than another's sin, that the lesser sin is somehow any better than the other.
It's like when someone says they just told a little "white lie". Isn't a lie a lie?
Jesus suffered tremendously for EVERY sin.

 

[1LoverofGod]

Actually the bible teaches( Acts 3:19) that one must repent and turn around( stop doing the sin) to get sins blotted out.)) If all sin was washed away then why do all pay their own wages of sin= death?

No no no
Jesus paid the penalty of sin for us. Upon believing and confessing we are sinners and Jesus died for the forgiveness of our sins and that He rose from the dead we are saved and because we still wait for our glorified bodies we do still die. But those wages of sin were paid in full by Jesus.