Lordship Salvation, Part 1 (Matthew 16:24-25) Andy Woods

[Andy C]

And also this from Got Questions:
The doctrine of lordship salvation teaches that submitting to Christ as Lord goes hand-in-hand with trusting in Christ as Savior. Lordship salvation is the opposite of what is sometimes called easy-believism or the teaching that salvation comes through an acknowledgement of a certain set of facts.

John MacArthur, whose book The Gospel According to Jesus lays out the case for lordship salvation, summarizes the teaching this way: “The gospel call to faith presupposes that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to Christ’s authority.” In other words, a sinner who refuses to repent is not saved, for he cannot cling to his sin and the Savior at the same time. And a sinner who rejects Christ’s authority in his life does not have saving faith, for true faith encompasses a surrender to God. Thus, the gospel requires more than making an intellectual decision or mouthing a prayer. The sheep will follow their Shepherd in submissive obedience.

Advocates of lordship salvation point to Jesus’ repeated warnings to the religious hypocrites of His day as proof that simply agreeing to spiritual facts does not save a person. There must be a heart change. Jesus emphasized the high cost of discipleship: “Whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:27), and “Those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples” (verse 33). In the same passage, Jesus speaks of counting the cost; elsewhere, He stresses total commitment: “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God” (Luke 9:62).

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus says that eternal life is a narrow path found by “only a few” (Matthew 7:14); in contrast, easy-believism seeks to broaden the path so that anyone who has a profession of faith can enter. Jesus says that “every good tree bears good fruit” (verse 17); in contrast, easy-believism says that a tree can still be good and bear nothing but bad fruit. Jesus says that many who say “Lord, Lord” will not enter the kingdom (verses 21–23); in contrast, easy-believism teaches that saying “Lord, Lord” is good enough.

Lordship salvation teaches that a true profession of faith will be backed up by evidence of faith. If a person is truly following the Lord, then he or she will obey the Lord’s instructions. A person who is living in willful, unrepentant sin has obviously not chosen to follow Christ, because Christ calls us out of sin and into righteousness. Indeed, the Bible clearly teaches that faith in Christ will result in a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 5:22–23; James 2:14–26).

Lordship salvation is not a salvation-by-works doctrine. Advocates of lordship salvation are careful to say that salvation is by grace alone, that believers are saved before their faith ever produces any good works, and that Christians can and do sin. However, true salvation will inevitably lead to a changed life. The saved will be dedicated to their Savior. A true Christian will not feel comfortable living in unconfessed, unforsaken sin.

Here are nine teachings that set lordship salvation apart from easy-believism:

1) Repentance is not a simple synonym for faith. Scripture teaches that sinners must exercise faith in conjunction with repentance (Acts 2:38; 17:30; 20:21; 2 Peter 3:9). Repentance is a change of mind from embrace of sin and rejection of Christ to a rejection of sin and an embrace of Christ (Acts 3:19; Luke 24:47), and even this is a gift of God (2 Timothy 2:25). Genuine repentance, which comes when a person submits to the lordship of Christ, cannot help but result in a change of behavior (Luke 3:8; Acts 26:18–20).

2) A Christian is a new creation and cannot just “stop believing” and lose salvation. Faith itself is a gift of God (Ephesians 2:1–5, 8), and real faith endures forever (Philippians 1:6). Salvation is all God’s work, not man’s. Those who believe in Christ as Lord are saved apart from any effort of their own (Titus 3:5).

3) The object of faith is Christ Himself, not a promise, a prayer, or a creed (John 3:16). Faith must involve a personal commitment to Christ (2 Corinthians 5:15). It is more than being convinced of the truth of the gospel; it is a forsaking of this world and a following of the Master. The Lord Jesus said, “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me” (John 10:27).

4) True faith always produces a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17). The inner person is transformed by the Holy Spirit (Galatians 2:20), and the Christian has a new nature (Romans 6:6). Those with genuine faith—those who are submitted to the lordship of Christ—follow Jesus (John 10:27), love their brothers (1 John 3:14), obey God’s commandments (1 John 2:3; John 15:14), do the will of God (Matthew 12:50), abide in God’s Word (John 8:31), keep God’s Word (John 17:6), do good works (Ephesians 2:10), and continue in the faith (Colossians 1:21–23; Hebrews 3:14). Salvation is not adding Jesus to the pantheon of one’s idols; it is a wholesale destruction of the idols with Jesus reigning supreme.

5) God’s “divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life” (2 Peter 1:3; cf. Romans 8:32). Salvation, then, is not just a ticket to heaven. It is the means by which we are sanctified (practically) in this life and by which we grow in grace.

6) Scripture teaches that Jesus is Lord of all. Christ demands unconditional surrender to His will (Romans 6:17–18; 10:9–10). Those who live in rebellion to God’s will do not have eternal life, for “God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble” (James 4:6).

7) Those who truly believe in Christ will love Him (1 Peter 1:8–9; Romans 8:28–30; 1 Corinthians 16:22). And those we love we long to please (John 14:15, 23).

8) Scripture teaches that behavior is an important test of faith. Obedience is evidence that one’s faith is genuine (1 John 2:3). If a person remains unwilling to obey Christ, he provides evidence that his “faith” is in name only (1 John 2:4). A person may claim Jesus as Savior and pretend to obey for a while, but, if there is no heart change, his true nature will eventually manifest itself. This was the case for Judas Iscariot.

9) Genuine believers may stumble and fall, but they will persevere in the faith (1 Corinthians 1:8). This was the case for Simon Peter. A “believer” who completely turns away from the Lord, never to return, plainly shows that he was never born again to begin with (1 John 2:19). This was the case for Judas Iscariot (see John 6:70).

A person who has been delivered from sin by faith in Christ should not desire to remain in a life of sin (Romans 6:2). Of course, spiritual growth can occur quickly or slowly, depending on the person and his circumstances. And the changes may not be evident to everyone at first. Ultimately, God knows who are His sheep, and He will mature each of us according to His perfect time table.

Is it possible to be a Christian and live in lifelong carnality, enjoying the pleasures of sin, and never seeking to glorify the Lord who bought him? Can a sinner spurn the lordship of Christ yet lay claim to Him as Savior? Can someone pray a “sinner’s prayer” and go about his life as if nothing had happened and still call himself a “Christian”? Lordship salvation says “no.” Let us not give unrepentant sinners false hope; rather, let us declare the whole counsel of God: “You must be born again” (John 3:7).

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This paragraph should be carefully read and contains the bottom line:
"Lordship salvation is not a salvation-by-works doctrine. Advocates of lordship salvation are careful to say that salvation is by grace alone, that believers are saved before their faith ever produces any good works, and that Christians can and do sin. However, true salvation will inevitably lead to a changed life. The saved will be dedicated to their Savior. A true Christian will not feel comfortable living in unconfessed, unforsaken sin."

I often refer to “got Questions”, but not for the subject of salvation. They are definitely proponents of LS, and Calvinism.

 

[Andy C]

This paragraph should be carefully read and contains the bottom line:
"Lordship salvation is not a salvation-by-works doctrine. Advocates of lordship salvation are careful to say that salvation is by grace alone, that believers are saved before their faith ever produces any good works, and that Christians can and do sin. However, true salvation will inevitably lead to a changed life. The saved will be dedicated to their Savior. A true Christian will not feel comfortable living in unconfessed, unforsaken sin."

The first few sentences are fine, but whenever that follows with the word “however” its adding to the free gift of salvation which only requires belief in Him.

 

[AnyMinute]

Andy Woods started a new sermon series on what he terms Neo Calvinism last Sunday. He lays out many of the errors and pitfalls of TULIP, Calvinism, and I'm sure as the series concludes he'll address the issue of L.S.
He even starts off explaining how he found himself identifying as a 5 point Calvinist coming out of Dallas Theological Seminary, as many of the professors he admired were Calvinists, and his move away from Tulip as he learned more through his studies of scripture.

I'm sure most here are settled in their soteriological positions so I'm only posting this as a source of information to consider.

Neo Calvinism vs. The Bible 001 - Sugar Land Bible Church | slbc.org

slbc.org

I agree that Got Questions tends to have a Calvinist slant to many of their articles dealing with salvation.
I sometimes post Dr. Ice as a resource dealing with eschatology though he told me once to my face that he was a Calvinist. I didn't ask how many points nor do I know if he still holds that position (this was over 10 yrs. ago).

 

[Andiamo]

I think we all need to be patient with one another here. We all come from different backgrounds and experiences. The truth is that everyone of us are walking in some kind of error, to some degree. Every one of us.

 

[Andy C]

I think we all need to be patient with one another here. We all come from different backgrounds and experiences. The truth is that everyone of us are walking in some kind of error, to some degree. Every one of us.

I think all are doing fine on this thread. We can all occasionally disagree but still remain in good fellowship.

 

[Eric Nicholas]

We can't afford to walk in error with the Gospel. That's the error that gets you permanently killed. It requires correction and haste. It's also a subject that was never tip-toed around in Scripture, either. In fact, it was spoken about quite forcefully with very intense verbiage and adjectives in descriptive form.

 

[Andiamo]

I think all are doing fine on this thread. We can all occasionally disagree but still remain in good fellowship.

I agree. Just being proactive. This used to result in Locked threads at the other joint (if I remember right?) However, if he had only just let it all play out, I’m sure it would have been more glorifying to the Lord.

 

[Amethyst]

I agree. Just being proactive. This used to result in Locked threads at the other joint (if I remember right?) However, if he had only just let it all play out, I’m sure it would have been more glorifying to the Lord.

Just my opinion
But I believe these threads work out better when links and outside article are sparsely used and there’s just interaction between each other. That way there’s communication on a direct level and not from outside sources and potential bias.
And less feelings get hurt or angry when “favorite” teachers are left out altogether.

 

[Andy C]

From the OP:

Let me just do one more and then we’ll conclude. Number 4, Lordship salvation confuses the result of salvation with the requirement for salvation. Another way of saying it is they’ve got the cart before the horse. So Renald Showers, a respected theologian, says this: “There is a clear distinction between a requirement for salvation and a result of salvation. The two should not be confused with each other. A willingness and desire for Christ to rule over one’s life are prompted by the new spiritual life imparted by the Holy Spirit when He regenerates the believer at salvation. The unsaved do not and cannot submit to divine rule” Now you’ll notice he’s got Romans 8:7 there, in parenthesis. You know what Romans 8:7says? It says, “because the mind set on the flesh” that mind “is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, nor is it even able to do so.” The unregenerate nature has, in and of itself absolutely no ability to submit to the authority of Christ.

That’s why, when the Lord saves us He doesn’t slap a coat of white paint over my sin nature and try to kind of decorate it a little bit. My sin nature is so far gone in the first Adam that the Lord gives me a new nature and guess what that new nature wants to do? It wants to submit to Christ; the old nature doesn’t want to do that. So now that I am a Christian I find that I have a desire to submit to Christ where that desire wasn’t even there before. See?

 

[Kem]

I wasn't going to bother saying anything more but I have to add this, it is critically important to examine all of what Scripture has to say on a subject, not just some verses that support the view one wants to adhere to. It is also important to define words as the original Hebrew and Greek define them by consulting a good concordance rather than just defining them one might want to view them. One's eternal destination depends on believing the truth of what the Bible actually says.

 

[Eric Nicholas]

@Goodboy What say ye?

 

[Andiamo]

This subject is what drew me in to RF years ago. I was immediately challenged by Andy and Goodboy
And what drew me in is the concern that I will repeat now. I think you can see by my posts above that I strongly believe that putting faith in Christ alone is what gets people saved.
But. We have entire “gay” churches now. They believe that they are born that way and that there is no need to repent - God loves them just the way they are. Some are mockers but I can tell you that so many are sincere!

Now, are some actually saved? I’m sure that some are, and God is doing that sanctification process to lead them out of the gay lifestyle and out of the apostate churches. But many are not saved and believe that they are and I really feel that we need to differentiate with that for the sake of some who may be reading this thread.

I have heard it said that if a person has zero conviction of Sin, then that may be an indicator that they are not saved. I tend to agree with that (although the conviction process may come to realization for a person very very slowly.) yet, I have seen it argued on RF that even that isn’t an indication. That they were not sorry or convicted of their sin at all but know they were still saved. And I know that for a while I didn’t think about my sin at all, either. (Although thinking about what Jesus did for me made me feel rotten.)

So I guess the bottom line is that we just can’t judge who are saved and who are not, no matter how bad it may appear. Because I know from my own experience that the very first changes happened in the heart where no one can see, as I was studying John 15 all alone in an empty room every morning before work.

Jesus promised that the wheat will be separated from the tares, and I thank God for that. Yet at the same time there are people walking around thinking they are saved but they aren’t. And that is tragic. I realize that would be the Lordship salvation converts too if they aren’t depending solely on the Cross.

Well I’m done rambling now and hopefully you know what I mean.

 

[Andiamo]

I wasn't going to bother saying anything more but I have to add this, it is critically important to examine all of what Scripture has to say on a subject, not just some verses that support the view one wants to adhere to. It is also important to define words as the original Hebrew and Greek define them by consulting a good concordance rather than just defining them one might want to view them. One's eternal destination depends on believing the truth of what the Bible actually says.

“Believe” is actually a loaded word but so many take it to mean simply that they believe Jesus existed and that He is real. (Whatever “real” means to them.) Another problem is when people like my unsaved family members believe in Jesus but it is a false, new-agey “Jesus” of their own fantasies.

 

[Eric Nicholas]

The only way to even potentially know someone may be saved is their testimony of faith in Christ's finished work. Taking snapshots in time of someone's sin and making a judgment call of the standing of their salvation makes you God and God you most certainly are not, nor will you ever be. I've seen gay churches, and I see plenty more that have preachers and congregations with guts to their kneecaps who boast about the food they are going to destroy on Jesus' birthday. That happily never gets mentioned though, because it's "normal". Are they sorry? If so, why haven't they done anything about it during the entire time they've been preaching? Why do congregations keep getting girthier? When do they plan on behaving and stop being enslaved to their drooling, gluttonous senses? Where's the sermon on gluttony Barry Stagner, John Hagee, Perry Stone, JD Farag, et al?

And easy believism is a catty term. You believe in hard believism? See how goofy that is? I promise you that none of you have turned from your sins. Just because you don't cuss, watch horror movies, and haven't had an abortion means little. You better hit the mark to perfection every moment of every day for your entire existence or you're a sinner and you are still in sin. It's often said that "easy belivism" gives you a license to sin. No, if you're a true believer, God will deal with you. He will scourge you. You won't get off without reproach. You're saved, but your life will certainly suffer miserable remedial correction and some even assert death.

You either trust in Christ fully or you don't. You either take Him at His word or you don't. Put that plus sign next to the Gospel and when you stand before the Lord and you get exactly what you deserve since you decided it was in your best interest to pour your hideous blood over the cross, well... that'll be that, right? It's the one Biblical topic that turns me hostile to anyone that blasphemes Tetelestai. Let him be accursed, says the Lord and accursed that person will most certianly be. I'll be an unbeliever's friend, but a brother I most certainly will not be.

 

[Andiamo]

I love how the word says how our righteousness is as filthy rags before the Lord. To me that speaks volumes because not only is it saying that my own righteousness would not only never be good enough, but God is repulsed by it and flat-out rejects it. It reminds me to keep my eyes fixed on the cross with the same awe and wonder and self-rottennesses that I did on Day 1, and not fall into Phariseeism that I am so prone to do whenever I feel I’ve been doing “pretty good” in my walk. HA!

About ten years ago I am embarrassed to say, I judged some worship team guys because they were smoking cigarettes in the church parking lot. I was horrified at myself when I learned that they were prior drug addicts. Look how far they came and how the Holy Spirit brought them along but there I was staring at their cigarettes. UGH! UGH!!!

 

[Andiamo]

I want to ask a genuine question here. Because I find this distressing and frustrating. My unsaved mom informed me one day, as if I didn’t know (this was when Pete Buttigieg came to the forefront)

“Well, there ARE gay Christians, you know.”

What would your response be to that statement? To someone who truly does not know Jesus yet?

 

[Andiamo]

I will add to my question above that I think the thing that really distresses me is not that they are in Sin….I mean all of us are in Sin….but the fact that these gay Christians are being used as part of the overall agenda to water down Christianity and also use it for the purposes of the Left and wokeness and ultimately for the purposes of Satan.
And I get distressed because I think it confuses my unsaved family as to what a Christian is.

 

[Amethyst]

I will add to my question above that I think the thing that really distresses me is not that they are in Sin….I mean all of us are in Sin….but the fact that these gay Christians are being used as part of the overall agenda to water down Christianity and also use it for the purposes of the Left and wokeness and ultimately for the purposes of Satan.
And I get distressed because I think it confuses my unsaved family as to what a Christian is.

I would aslo have to consider this passage:

Hebrews 12:5-10

And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons?

5 “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
nor be weary when reproved by him.
6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and chastises every son whom he receives.”
7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness.


He seems to discipline each of us in different ways, though.

 

[Matthew6:33]

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever makes Him Lord over their life shall not perish but have everlasting life.

 

[Tall Timbers]

“Well, there ARE gay Christians, you know.”

What would your response be to that statement? To someone who truly does not know Jesus yet?

I would say that I'm skeptical of that but I can't know the hearts of man. Homosexuality seems to me to be warring against the natural order that God created.