What's new
Christian Community Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate fully in the fellowship here, including adding your own topics and posts, as well as connecting with other members through your own private inbox!

Millennial Day Theory

It was fantastic, but now when we should be talking about what is going on in the world like the Rapture, the Middle East and the soon Tribulation we are busy debating about if there is a gap. How is that really helpful to anyone. It is just a distraction from what we should really be discussing which is how to get people saved before the Tribulation which is close at hand. Satan loves when we are distracted. :cry:
I’m Italian and I’m used to conversations like this 😆 A discussion that starts up about lasagna turns into a heated debate about mozzarella. Then peripheral arguments about sauce, noodles and ricotta. Finally, both Nanas get up and each cook a lasagna and make us all judge whose is the best.
I think this is great! It could be an endless thread, but it’s great.
 
I’m Italian and I’m used to conversations like this 😆 A discussion that starts up about lasagna turns into a heated debate about mozzarella. Then peripheral arguments about sauce, noodles and ricotta. Finally, both Nanas get up and each cook a lasagna and make us all judge whose is the best.
I think this is great! It could be an endless thread, but it’s great.
I can only agree if we all are also doing what God has called us to do. 👍

I think we all know we are in the end times and that the Tribulation is coming very soon. We should be asking ourselves what are we currently doing for Jesus? What are we doing that is causing others to get saved? Do we have a plan of who we might speak with and what we might say? I mean are we intentional or just waiting for someone to ask us about Jesus. Why am I saying this now? Because there is little time! It's now or never so to speak.

If and only if we are intentionally trying to share the Gospel in some way should we be having fun debating about the gap, for those who think it is fun anyway. :noidea:
 
I can only agree if we all are also doing what God has called us to do.👍

I think we all know we are in the end times and that the Tribulation is coming very soon. We should be asking ourselves what are we currently doing for Jesus? What are we doing that is causing others to get saved? Do we have a plan of who we might speak with and what we might say? I mean are we intentional or just waiting for someone to ask us about Jesus. Why am I saying this now? Because there is little time! It's now or never so to speak.

If and only if we are intentionally trying to share the Gospel in some way should we be having fun debating about the gap, for those who think it is fun anyway. :noidea:
To be fair there are a lot of threads on this board that have nothing to do with sharing the gospel
The Anything Goes section and the Game section for instance.

These topics are written in scripture so as Christians we need an outlet to discuss them with other Christians for pure fellowship and learning.
I also think threads where there are disagreements help us learn how to treat one another despite our different opinions .
 
I believe that God is smiling because here are His people spending time discussing the Word and things of God. Instead of staring at the recent news, upset and worried. Sharpening each other’s irons. I say it’s all good.
Our minds are on God and His word. It’s a beautiful thing. And it does prepare us to go out and share the gospel because it gets us fired up about His return. Formulating our opinions and stating them helps us remember who we really are.
 
I am feeling the same, actually.

There is just so much more that needs to happen. And I think He will wait until the vey last minute to take us out.

I am honestly kind of wondering if I should never have started this thread topic to begin with.
Yes. When people zig I tend to zag. I worry when something looks too perfect. Sometimes I second guess myself into oblivion that way while everyone else is wondering why I'm puzzled.

I also think (no matter how neat and tidy the Mill Day theory is) that Peter nailed it when he said, God is patient towards humanity, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance: Right after one of the keynote verses for the Mill Day Theory which I include for context

That is why I think God will wait till that moment that only He knows, that He can't wait any longer. In retrospect, we will look back and see how perfect that day was when it finally came. It will fulfill all kinds of pictures and types but perhaps in a way none of us can figure out ahead of time.

2 Peter 3:8-9
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

And that is my bottom line as I pray for the Rapture, because I want every last one of the Church age saints going up with us. Jew and Gentile. Every last one that can go up at that time in God's mercy and grace.

He has a time, a number that closes out the Church Age that only He knows. Paul gives it in a nautical term in Greek that means the number - the fullness or completion of the number that belong on board a ship before it can set sail.

I'm praying for Him to give me grace to keep praying NOT MY WILL BUT YOURS BE DONE LORD because I know I will be glad of his "delays" when I meet these last few saints that made it onto the Rapture Ark.

A note about Noah (I know some don't like using him and the Ark as a type of the Rapture but here goes anyway- Noah has been a source of great comfort and encouragement to me over the years.)

He was in the Ark for a whole week before the rains came. God shut the door behind Noah and family once the animals were in. Genesis 7 does recaps of the story which gets confusing to our way of telling things but if you read carefully you'll see it. The "on that very day" in v13 refers back to v 1- the day Noah obeyed, and brought the animals in. God shuts the door.

Here's how it works:
V 1-5 complete the first telling of the tale
V 6-10 tell it again with more detail
v 11 and 12 give the date stamps
V 13-16 tells it again the 3rd time, more details
V 17-23 tell it from inside the ark
V 24 Another detail about the dates.

There is a week between the closing of that door and the beginning of the rain.

I've often seen that as God's grace and mercy to Noah and his family. They've had a long hard road getting here, now it's time to settle in and wait a little while. Get used to ship life before it all starts rocking and rolling. God shuts the door. Taking the decision out of Noah's hands. Even if Noah wanted, he can't open the door God shuts.

Every cruise I've been on with George there is that final separation when the gangplank goes up. (sometimes people do get left behind). It's an irrevocable moment.

Moments before there was still a chance to board that ship. Then the captain gives the order (like God shutting the door) and we are under way. I often watched as the water between the ship and the dock boils and bubbles as the ship pulls away and the water opens up. No more choice. Suddenly in the moment all choices are gone. I can't go ashore anymore even if I suddenly wanted to, I'm on the ship and it's moving away. If I misread the time and missed the boat it's gone, done. No more options.

I said goodbye to my dad one time in Skagway looking at the water between me and the dock opening up and realizing this was like eternity. One day dad would breathe his last and if he didn't get saved, that ship would sail, permanently. He didn't get saved. He is lost. I often wonder how Noah and his family felt as the people outside suddenly realized their peril as the rains began.

But God removed Noah from being able to try one more time. The Rapture will have a sudden demarcation line drawn by God. Before the Rapture, and AFTER the Rapture.

I often think about that moment when the door is shut, before the rains come, whether people knew it or not- they carried on like normal but that line was drawn. The preflood days were over. God made the decision and the door is shut. A week till the realization hits along with the pelting rain and the geysers of water exploding from the centre of the earth.

They carry on like nothing happened, little knowing the judgment is about to come.

But that line is drawn, can't be crossed. The door is shut on the preflood world.
 
Yes. When people zig I tend to zag. I worry when something looks too perfect. Sometimes I second guess myself into oblivion that way while everyone else is wondering why I'm puzzled.

I also think (no matter how neat and tidy the Mill Day theory is) that Peter nailed it when he said, God is patient towards humanity, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance: Right after one of the keynote verses for the Mill Day Theory which I include for context

That is why I think God will wait till that moment that only He knows, that He can't wait any longer.

2 Peter 3:8-9
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

And that is my bottom line as I pray for the Rapture, because I want every last one of the Church age saints going up with us. Jew and Gentile. Every last one that can go up at that time in God's mercy and grace.

He has a time, a number that closes out the Church Age that only He knows. I'm praying for Him to give me grace to keep praying NOT MY WILL BUT YOURS BE DONE LORD because I know I will be glad of his "delays" when I meet these last few saints that made it onto the Rapture Ark.

A note about Noah (I know some don't like using him and the Ark as a type of the Rapture but here goes anyway- Noah has been a source of great comfort and encouragement to me over the years.)

He was in the Ark for a whole week before the rains came. God shut the door behind Noah and family once the animals were in. Genesis 7 does recaps of the story which gets confusing to our way of telling things but if you read carefully you'll see it. The "on that very day" in v13 refers back to v 1- the day Noah obeyed, and brought the animals in. God shuts the door.

Here's how it works:
V 1-5 complete the first telling of the tale
V 6-10 tell it again with more detail
v 11 and 12 give the date stamps
V 13-16 tells it again the 3rd time, more details
V 17-23 tell it from inside the ark
V 24 Another detail about the dates.

There is a week between the closing of that door and the beginning of the rain.

I've often seen that as God's grace and mercy to Noah and his family. They've had a long hard road getting here, now it's time to settle in and wait a little while. Get used to ship life before it all starts rocking and rolling. God shuts the door. Taking the decision out of Noah's hands. Even if Noah wanted, he can't open the door God shuts.

Every cruise I've been on with George there is that final separation when the gangplank goes up. (sometimes people do get left behind). It's an irrevocable moment.

Moments before there was still a chance to board that ship. Then the captain gives the order (like God shutting the door) and we are under way. I often watched as the water between the ship and the dock boils and bubbles as the ship pulls away and the water opens up. No more choice. Suddenly in the moment all choices are gone. I can't go ashore anymore even if I suddenly wanted to, I'm on the ship and it's moving away. If I misread the time and missed the boat it's gone, done. No more options.

I said goodbye to my dad one time in Skagway looking at the water between me and the dock opening up and realizing this was like eternity. One day dad would breathe his last and if he didn't get saved, that ship would sail, permanently. He didn't get saved. He is lost. I often wonder how Noah and his family felt as the people outside suddenly realized their peril as the rains began.

But God removed Noah from being able to try one more time. The Rapture will have a sudden demarcation line drawn by God. Before the Rapture, and AFTER the Rapture.

I often think about that moment when the door is shut, before the rains come, whether people knew it or not- they carried on like normal but that line was drawn. The preflood days were over. God made the decision and the door is shut. A week till the realization hits along with the pelting rain and the geysers of water exploding from the centre of the earth.

They carry on like nothing happened, little knowing the judgment is about to come.

But that line is drawn, can't be crossed. The door is shut on the preflood world.

Also time to grieve Methuselah, who some say died 7 days before the rain started, which is supported by the Masoretic Text.
 
He was in the Ark for a whole week before the rains came.
I mentioned this upthread…have seen teachers say this (some actually move the verses around into what they say is the true chronological order). Now if this is correct, what a beautiful picture of the rapture! 7 days = 7 years. But some post tribbers try to say it means Christians “ride out” the seven years in the trib. Protected by God in the “ark” which is ludicrous when you know there are millions of decapitations.
What about Lot & family though? That sure was a last minute escape. Maybe Jesus never intended for that example to be about the rapture but only about the state of the world.
 
I often wonder how Noah and his family felt as the people outside suddenly realized their peril as the rains began.

There is a wonderful historical fiction book based on Noah and his family before, during, and immediately after the flood. It touches on this kind of thing. I wish I could remember the title (or author) so I could re-read it (my copy's in storage). The author wrote at least one more book that's just as good.
 
To be fair there are a lot of threads on this board that have nothing to do with sharing the gospel
The Anything Goes section and the Game section for instance.

These topics are written in scripture so as Christians we need an outlet to discuss them with other Christians for pure fellowship and learning.
I also think threads where there are disagreements help us learn how to treat one another despite our different opinions .
Did I say there is anything wrong with other threads or post? :noidea:

This is what I said.
I can only agree if we all are also doing what God has called us to do. Did you miss the word also? It is like me saying my son should only be playing basketball after he does his homework. Do you disagree with that?

I totally believe that every Christian should find some way to share the Gospel which includes things like just helping people. 👍

Here is a thread that I started about sharing the Gospel.

 
I mentioned this upthread…have seen teachers say this (some actually move the verses around into what they say is the true chronological order). Now if this is correct, what a beautiful picture of the rapture! 7 days = 7 years. But some post tribbers try to say it means Christians “ride out” the seven years in the trib. Protected by God in the “ark” which is ludicrous when you know there are millions of decapitations.
What about Lot & family though? That sure was a last minute escape. Maybe Jesus never intended for that example to be about the rapture but only about the state of the world.
I'm so glad you mentioned Lot. I wanted to drag him in here but my previous answer was getting too long. (BTW I hadn't seen your post before I wrote about Noah) this thread moves way faster than I can type.

First Noah, the teachers who say he is not a picture of the Rapture are quite right, but elements of his story really do fit. And I don't mean the week before the rains, it's the pierced side of the boat (the door) the way into safety. A wooden ark, a wooden cross.

Noah is the reason I began to homeschool my kids. I heard a sermon on Noah by a homeschooler and I'd felt the Lord pulling me to do that. Me - with a husband who was dead set against it, and kids going into high school and a career in nursing. But I felt a whisper in my Spirit to go build an Ark for my kids via homeschooling and I did. God comforted me with Noah so many times when it got tough. He kept building that Ark. Laughter, mocking, discouragements galore I'm sure came his way.

Let's Loiter with Lot!!! :big grin;

Those angels came to get him the night before.

They spent the night in Lot's house and finally by dawn they grab him dragging him and Mrs Lot and the 2 girls out to safety.

Backstory:
Genesis 18- Sarah giggles in disbelief when she overhears she's going to have a son, but denies it when she's found out and Abraham intercedes with the Lord over the destruction of Sodom but gives up after God agrees not to destroy it if 10 righteous are found in it.

Genesis 19 The angels arrive at Sodom and meet Lot who is sitting in the city gates (a place that means he had some respect within that city government) IN THE EVENING.

He doesn't let them spend the night in the city square. They come home to his place, and he makes supper for them.

In a foreshadowing of the Exodus, he bakes bread without leaven. An interesting detail.

After dinner, all the men of the area are outside the door demanding to have sex with the strangers in Lot's home. Lot goes out to reason with them, closing the door carefully behind him, and fails to make them understand. He even offers sex with his 2 daughters but they insist.

The angels intervene. Reaching out, they grab Lot, pull him inside and smite the Sodomites with blindness.

After that episode, they ask Lot if there's anybody else he wants to take to safety with him. He goes out and tries to talk to his daughter's fiances his future son in laws (which in Middle Eastern custom of that time were betrothed, so considered as legally married already but not yet together). They think it's a joke and laugh at him.

Obviously he takes some time to try because dawn starts to break and the angels grab him and say HURRY! They literally have to drag him, his wife and their 2 daughters by the hands.

So by the time elapsed, the angels arrived in the evening and by dawn they are out of time and drag Lot and family to safety.

As soon as they were out of the city, one of the angels told them to run for it- get to the mountains and safety. But Lot is truly related to Abraham so he bargains and asks to just go as far as Zoar

Which is why Zoar didn't burn up because the angels agreed. Which is why this video here is fascinating by Expedition Bible. Sodom burned—Zoar did NOT: The full story of the discovery of the Cities of the Plain!

Here is the account in Genesis 19, the bits I've recapped above with some emphasis. Note the time elapsing. God doesn't begin the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah till DAY BREAKS

So in the evening the angels come to get Lot and anyone he can persuade to come with. After dinner the Sodomites arrive and get blinded. Then Lot tries to talk his sons in law to be into coming till dawn starts. At which point the angels grab and drag him and his family by the hands. They get out of the city and Lot begins to bargain. He gets to Zoar as the sun rises and then God destroys the towns of Sodom and Gomorrah.

But before that day dawns, Lot is out trying to bring 2 people to safety who refuse to come and enter into judgment that morning. He intercedes with the angels for Zoar and Zoar survives.

Genesis 19 NIV

1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 “My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.”

“No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.”


3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate.

4 Before they had gone to bed,
all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”


6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”


9 “Get out of our way,” they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.” They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.


10 But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door. 11 Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door.


12 The two men said to Lot, “Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, 13 because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the Lord against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it.”


14 So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry his daughters. He said, “Hurry and get out of this place, because the Lord is about to destroy the city!” But his sons-in-law thought he was joking.


15 With the coming of dawn, the angels urged Lot, saying, “Hurry! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away when the city is punished.”


16 When he hesitated, the men grasped his hand and the hands of his wife and of his two daughters and led them safely out of the city, for the Lord was merciful to them.

17 As soon as they had brought them out, one of them said, “Flee for your lives! Don’t look back, and don’t stop anywhere in the plain! Flee to the mountains or you will be swept away!”


18 But Lot said to them, “No, my lords, please! 19 Your servant has found favor in your eyes, and you have shown great kindness to me in sparing my life. But I can’t flee to the mountains; this disaster will overtake me, and I’ll die. 20 Look, here is a town near enough to run to, and it is small. Let me flee to it—it is very small, isn’t it? Then my life will be spared.”


21 He said to him, “Very well, I will grant this request too; I will not overthrow the town you speak of.

22 But flee there quickly, because I cannot do anything until you reach it.” (That is why the town was called Zoar.)


23 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land.

24 Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah
—from the Lord out of the heavens.


The timing mentioned within the chapter is interesting.

Judgment is determined and set to happen in the chapter before, when Abraham and Sarah have a visit from 3 men around noon or mid afternoon- described as the heat of the day, one of whom is the Lord (pre incarnate Jesus) and the other 2 are the angels who will be sent to bring Lot out.

After they eat with Abraham they get up to leave. The angels go towards Sodom, while the Lord remains to tell Abraham what will happen to Sodom and Gomorrah. Abraham bargains with the Lord and gets to 10 righteous men before stopping.

The 2 angels arrive at evening. Lot is removed at dawn and when he reaches the safety of Zoar (NOT UNTIL) then the judgment of God falls on the cities of the plain (Sodom and Gomorrah)

There is a gap of time between the determination of judgment, the arrival of the angels to remove Lot and then Lot still has to get to Zoar. Evening to dawn to sunrise at Zoar.

Then there is the mercy of God - Lot is called righteous in the Bible, his soul vexed by the goings on around him. He is a picture of the Rapture taking imperfect believers the answer to those who like to preach a partial rapture based on works. But that is not how God works in this age of grace. Works don't save us. Trust in the Lord does. And that is how and why Lot is counted righteous. He believed God. Look at his response to the angel's message. He tried to get his son in laws to come with him, to escape the coming wrath. He believed and acted on that belief. He bargained because he believed that God was bringing judgment and that God would hear his request.
 
He was in the Ark for a whole week before the rains came. God shut the door behind Noah and family once the animals were in. Genesis 7 does recaps of the story which gets confusing to our way of telling things but if you read carefully you'll see it. The "on that very day" in v13 refers back to v 1- the day Noah obeyed, and brought the animals in. God shuts the door.

Here's how it works:
V 1-5 complete the first telling of the tale
V 6-10 tell it again with more detail
v 11 and 12 give the date stamps
V 13-16 tells it again the 3rd time, more details
V 17-23 tell it from inside the ark
V 24 Another detail about the dates.
Genesis 7:12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
Genesis 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

To me I believe it is clear that Genesis 7:13 is referring to Genesis 7:12.
I say, don't make what is clearly stated complex. :noidea:
 
Genesis 7:12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
Genesis 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

To me I believe it is clear that Genesis 7:13 is referring to Genesis 7:12. I say don't make what is clearly stated complex.
I explained it in the body of my reply, just as I did with the gap - I don't wish to argue. I explained what I think and why I think that way. You are perfectly free to think differently as is everyone else.
 
23 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. 24 Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens.
Yes right after Lot was safe. What is your point?
 
Plus it’s 11 PM here. I do ministry during the day. I could have watched a movie tonight but instead I got into this thread. I think this discussion is super edifying.
Lasagna is all pretty darn good. Even the Stouffers kind. Let’s just enjoy it all.
This is what I do here. And it's not that I wouldn't church up with you lovely folks, well definitely not you, Andi. Ever. But I am more on the apologetic, systematic, worldview investigation side of things with folks I know and some online as well. By God's grace, we have pulled quite a few out of the secular, God-loathing furnace.

I'm here to decompress and fellowship because my debate and apologetic friends aren't super into prophecy, regretfully. They aren't pretribbers, either, which isolates me a bit. And by the time we have argued for hours with screeching God haters and TikTok like minds, I'm just ready to talk about a spa or what type of lettuce went on my burger.

Listening to Gen Z calling you every word under the sun with all the arrogance and confidence they do behind a keyboard and threatening to kill you and your family, when I know I could rip out their dumb wagging tongue and make a hat out of it, not only takes restraint, it can sometimes outright zap me.

That said, what you all are talking about here inspires me to take notes and investigate further. I love prophecy. I love the thought and conclusiveness of it, and I definitely need to study it more, as I mostly do not know what many of you are talking about here. When I read about it or hear you and others talk about it, it lets me know the cavalry is about to come over the hill. Those are some of the sweetest sounds.
 
This is what I do here. And it's not that I wouldn't church up with you lovely folks, well definitely not you Andi. Ever. But I am more on the apologetic, systematic, worldview investigation side of things with folks I know and some online as well.

So, we are more into first causes, worldview investigation, and shredding Atheism, pantheism, etc. By God's grace, we have pulled quite a few out of the secular, God-loathing furnace.

I'm here to decompress and fellowship because my debate and apologetic friends aren't super into prophecy, regretfully. And by the time we have argued for hours with screeching God haters and TikTok like minds, I'm just ready to talk about a spa or what type of lettuce went on my burger.

Listening to Gen Z calling you every word under the sun with all the arrogance and confidence they do behind a keyboard and threatening to kill you and your family, when I know I could rip out their dumb wagging tongue and make a hat out of it not only takes restraint, it can sometimes outright zap me.

That said, what you all are talking about here inspires me to take notes and investigate further. I love prophecy, I love the thought and conclusiveness of it, and I definitely need to study it more, as I mostly do not know what many of you are talking about here.

Hal Lindsey's Late Great Planet Earth (book) is a great place to start. Easy and interesting read. A lot of people have become interested in prophecy because of this book (I'm one of them). A lot of people have also come to Christ because of it. The book was first published in 1970, but it gives a great basis/overview even now. It makes a great gift, too :)
 
2
And that brings me to another point. And that is the covenant with death and hell as Isaiah 28:18 calls it. Daniel points it out and that covenant becomes the time stamp for the Tribulation period.

It's not just who signs it.

It's also a time stamp prophecy that the Tribulation saints can use to spot the start of the Tribulation and start the countdown to the time Jesus shows up at the end of the Tribulation. That is underscored by the number of times we see the time involved mentioned over and over and over.

This is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IN A BACK ROOM. It WON'T be done in secret.

Because God is using it to reassure the Tribulation Saints, to give them hope and a sure understanding that there IS an end to the suffering especially if they survive to the end - it makes ZERO sense for God to give this sign and then allow the enemy to hide it.

This will not be a hidden event. IT HAS to be public and publicly available as a matter of record for God to use it as a sign. BECAUSE the saints of the Trib are counting the days. They don't need to second guess was it this document or maybe that one. This will be a big event, something that every saint around the globe who has a Bible available will be able to breathe a sigh of relief and know exactly when it started.

3
For Israel to bother signing onto something that Isaiah and Daniel warn against, the rabbis, the Sanhedrin, the Knesset AND the prime minister all have to see it as a benefit to Israel.

After all Isaiah talks about it as avoiding the overwhelming scourge. So whoever is behind that covenant (the AC) is causing something overwhelming to pass thru the nations. Israel sees an opportunity and signs this covenant in order to AVOID trouble.

(side track, Isaiah 28 vs 11 + 12 is so incredibly pointed- the way God thru Isaiah sends people of foreign languages to tell where their rest is - in Christ in other words but they won't listen)

My point here is this. For Israel to see the worth in signing ANYTHING there has to be a measurable net benefit to Israel - and the worth of any covenant lies in the ones signing it. You DON'T expect big things from a nobody.

This person, the AC has been creating issues in order for Israel to see the benefit in cutting a covenant with him. For that to happen, he has to have carved out a reputation. Isaiah pointedly calls his actions the overwhelming scourge.

For that to happen (I"m using Jack Kelley's beautiful system of back tracing the necessary elements here)

The AC has to be a player on the world stage and gaining a reputation.

My first point about the Christian audience- we love to play pin the tail on the AC, so for the Bible to say that he CANNOT show up until we (and the restrainer in our midst) are taken up means that the AC cannot appear and have an international reputation until we are out of here.

A very clear order of events

RAPTURE takes the Christians and the Restrainer UP and out of the way
THEN and only then is the "lawless one" revealed, aka the man of sin, son of perdition.

2 Thess 2: 3-8
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.

7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed,
whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.


I agree a public signing, or at least info released right after, so people can count the days.

But probably a giant pomp-and-circumstance dog-and-pony show to put a feather (or fistful of them) in the AC's cap.

Or one of those formal everyone signing at a looooooooooooooooooooooooong desk/table on a dais and the copies in beautiful folders being passed in an orderly fashion from one to another. Lots of fussing aides about facilitating, carrying, fetching, pointing to exactly where each person is to sign, etc.

Televised, streamed, etc. to everyone around the world
 
I'm so glad you mentioned Lot. I wanted to drag him in here but my previous answer was getting too long. (BTW I hadn't seen your post before I wrote about Noah) this thread moves way faster than I can type.

First Noah, the teachers who say he is not a picture of the Rapture are quite right, but elements of his story really do fit. And I don't mean the week before the rains, it's the pierced side of the boat (the door) the way into safety. A wooden ark, a wooden cross.

Noah is the reason I began to homeschool my kids. I heard a sermon on Noah by a homeschooler and I'd felt the Lord pulling me to do that. Me - with a husband who was dead set against it, and kids going into high school and a career in nursing. But I felt a whisper in my Spirit to go build an Ark for my kids via homeschooling and I did. God comforted me with Noah so many times when it got tough. He kept building that Ark. Laughter, mocking, discouragements galore I'm sure came his way.

Let's Loiter with Lot!!! :big grin;

Those angels came to get him the night before.

They spent the night in Lot's house and finally by dawn they grab him dragging him and Mrs Lot and the 2 girls out to safety.

Backstory:
Genesis 18- Sarah giggles in disbelief when she overhears she's going to have a son, but denies it when she's found out and Abraham intercedes with the Lord over the destruction of Sodom but gives up after God agrees not to destroy it if 10 righteous are found in it.

Genesis 19 The angels arrive at Sodom and meet Lot who is sitting in the city gates (a place that means he had some respect within that city government) IN THE EVENING.

He doesn't let them spend the night in the city square. They come home to his place, and he makes supper for them.

In a foreshadowing of the Exodus, he bakes bread without leaven. An interesting detail.

After dinner, all the men of the area are outside the door demanding to have sex with the strangers in Lot's home. Lot goes out to reason with them, closing the door carefully behind him, and fails to make them understand. He even offers sex with his 2 daughters but they insist.

The angels intervene. Reaching out, they grab Lot, pull him inside and smite the Sodomites with blindness.

After that episode, they ask Lot if there's anybody else he wants to take to safety with him. He goes out and tries to talk to his daughter's fiances his future son in laws (which in Middle Eastern custom of that time were betrothed, so considered as legally married already but not yet together). They think it's a joke and laugh at him.

Obviously he takes some time to try because dawn starts to break and the angels grab him and say HURRY! They literally have to drag him, his wife and their 2 daughters by the hands.

So by the time elapsed, the angels arrived in the evening and by dawn they are out of time and drag Lot and family to safety.

As soon as they were out of the city, one of the angels told them to run for it- get to the mountains and safety. But Lot is truly related to Abraham so he bargains and asks to just go as far as Zoar

Which is why Zoar didn't burn up because the angels agreed. Which is why this video here is fascinating by Expedition Bible. Sodom burned—Zoar did NOT: The full story of the discovery of the Cities of the Plain!

Here is the account in Genesis 19, the bits I've recapped above with some emphasis. Note the time elapsing. God doesn't begin the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah till DAY BREAKS

So in the evening the angels come to get Lot and anyone he can persuade to come with. After dinner the Sodomites arrive and get blinded. Then Lot tries to talk his sons in law to be into coming till dawn starts. At which point the angels grab and drag him and his family by the hands. They get out of the city and Lot begins to bargain. He gets to Zoar as the sun rises and then God destroys the towns of Sodom and Gomorrah.

But before that day dawns, Lot is out trying to bring 2 people to safety who refuse to come and enter into judgment that morning. He intercedes with the angels for Zoar and Zoar survives.

Genesis 19 NIV

1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 “My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.”

“No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.”


3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate.

4 Before they had gone to bed,
all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”


6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”


9 “Get out of our way,” they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.” They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.


10 But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door. 11 Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door.


12 The two men said to Lot, “Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, 13 because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the Lord against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it.”


14 So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry his daughters. He said, “Hurry and get out of this place, because the Lord is about to destroy the city!” But his sons-in-law thought he was joking.


15 With the coming of dawn, the angels urged Lot, saying, “Hurry! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away when the city is punished.”


16 When he hesitated, the men grasped his hand and the hands of his wife and of his two daughters and led them safely out of the city, for the Lord was merciful to them.

17 As soon as they had brought them out, one of them said, “Flee for your lives! Don’t look back, and don’t stop anywhere in the plain! Flee to the mountains or you will be swept away!”


18 But Lot said to them, “No, my lords, please! 19 Your servant has found favor in your eyes, and you have shown great kindness to me in sparing my life. But I can’t flee to the mountains; this disaster will overtake me, and I’ll die. 20 Look, here is a town near enough to run to, and it is small. Let me flee to it—it is very small, isn’t it? Then my life will be spared.”


21 He said to him, “Very well, I will grant this request too; I will not overthrow the town you speak of.

22 But flee there quickly, because I cannot do anything until you reach it.” (That is why the town was called Zoar.)


23 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land.

24 Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah
—from the Lord out of the heavens.


The timing mentioned within the chapter is interesting.

Judgment is determined and set to happen in the chapter before, when Abraham and Sarah have a visit from 3 men around noon or mid afternoon- described as the heat of the day, one of whom is the Lord (pre incarnate Jesus) and the other 2 are the angels who will be sent to bring Lot out.

After they eat with Abraham they get up to leave. The angels go towards Sodom, while the Lord remains to tell Abraham what will happen to Sodom and Gomorrah. Abraham bargains with the Lord and gets to 10 righteous men before stopping.

The 2 angels arrive at evening. Lot is removed at dawn and when he reaches the safety of Zoar (NOT UNTIL) then the judgment of God falls on the cities of the plain (Sodom and Gomorrah)

There is a gap of time between the determination of judgment, the arrival of the angels to remove Lot and then Lot still has to get to Zoar. Evening to dawn to sunrise at Zoar.

Then there is the mercy of God - Lot is called righteous in the Bible, his soul vexed by the goings on around him. He is a picture of the Rapture taking imperfect believers the answer to those who like to preach a partial rapture based on works. But that is not how God works in this age of grace. Works don't save us. Trust in the Lord does. And that is how and why Lot is counted righteous. He believed God. Look at his response to the angel's message. He tried to get his son in laws to come with him, to escape the coming wrath. He believed and acted on that belief. He bargained because he believed that God was bringing judgment and that God would hear his request.
I also heard one of the Angels was a preincarnate Jesus or Christophany?
 
Back
Top