Christian Community Forum
Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Millennial Day Theory
- Thread starter Amethyst
- Start date
Goodboy
Just waiting for the Rapture at this point!
As I already stated there is nothing we have to do or not do in this grace age to be saved. Sure we must accept Jesus as our Savior but that is the one and only condition. In the Tribulation you must also refuse the mark which at best causes your life to be horrible and at worse gets you killed. That is a big difference from what we currently have to do.
Andiamo
Hanging on to the Throne
Maybe I’m a deadhead today because of the hurricane, but I don’t understand how having absolutely no gap would affect the imminence of the rapture. Could you or someone please explain this ?
Greg
Well-known
Easy. The agreement starts the tribulation and nothing else. If there absolutely (key word absolutely) no gap, the Rapture can only happen the exact moment the agreement is signed. I can practically guarantee that won't be tomorrow... those things don't happen randomly without a process. And that doesn't even get into the Restrainer and 2 Thessalonians 2, which to my reading guarantees at least a small gap, but I understand not everyone feels that way.
@Goodboy , why do you feel the need to shout repeatedly in this thread (bold type, very large font)? You give an argument worth considering, but it's far from conclusive. What if your position is incorrect?
Goodboy
Just waiting for the Rapture at this point!
Well someone in another thread stated that the Gap theory was a fact and this whole gap thing keeps coming up again and again and again even back in the Rapture Forums days. Why are some so hung up on that when it is just a theory and does not affect us anyway? Everyone can have their opinion but saying it is a fact is just too much. I was trying to be nice, but that did not work with some, so I decided to shout it out!
What if my opinion is incorrect? It's not! That's about all I can tell you. Of course you are free to believe whatever you want.
Don't you think it would be kind of strange if the Bible that is supposed to contain all the knowledge we need goes from the Old Testament to the New Testament to Revelation but skips the Gap?
Andiamo
Hanging on to the Throne
I always thought of it like this. These are just my beliefs from what I gather from scripture and I could put scriptures here but I am too tired right now. Also have mercy on me because obviously I am no Bible scholar.
The moment that we leave, that is the end of the church age. The door is shut. Whether there is a small lapse of time before the signing of the covenant or not, does not matter. The church age is over. And that is the big event. The end of the church age.
Now, about people putting their faith in Christ after we leave. It is my understanding and belief that they will have that opportunity the moment after we are gone. Whether they happen to place faith during a short gap before the signing or not. They will be in the category of “Tribulation saints”—not necessarily because the Tribulation has “officially” started—-but because the church age has ended.
We call them “Tribulation Saints” for clarity and I think that confuses us. They are all actually Post-church-age believers. The saints in Rev 7 have “come out of the great tribulation. “ But I don’t think that group necessarily includes every believer in the post-church age.
The believers will be forced to prove out their faith by standing with Christ to the death. Whether that means the head chopping, (which I believe will be the vast majority of the initial believers) or riding it all out while doing good works unto the Jewish people. With anything and everything that comes to them, they will have to stand.
And although not filled with the Holy Spirit, I believe that the Holy Spirit will be on the earth, in the Old Testament kind of way. Helping and giving strength and showing Himself true and making ways for Believers. God adores His tribulation saints and will not leave them abandoned.
The mark will be introduced at the midpoint of the trib and those who receive it will certainly be damned…NOT because what has been put on or under their skin, but because of the worship of the beast they will do before receiving it. That is what damns them. If someone chooses to reject Christ and worship the beast before the mark is introduced, they will be just as damned.
From what I have studied about dispensations, there is some disagreement and confusion as to whether the actual seven year tribulation period itself is it’s own dispensation, or parenthetical dispensation. I am thinking not.
We leave…the church age ends…the Restrainer is gone…judgements fall upon the earth. That “parenthetical dispensation of Judgment”—-as Clarence Larkin beautifully maps it out—-begins the moment after the rapture. Having nothing to do with the timing of the signing of the covenant.
The signing may perfectly overlay our departure, or it may not. It does not matter to us or to those left behind.
The moment that we leave, that is the end of the church age. The door is shut. Whether there is a small lapse of time before the signing of the covenant or not, does not matter. The church age is over. And that is the big event. The end of the church age.
Now, about people putting their faith in Christ after we leave. It is my understanding and belief that they will have that opportunity the moment after we are gone. Whether they happen to place faith during a short gap before the signing or not. They will be in the category of “Tribulation saints”—not necessarily because the Tribulation has “officially” started—-but because the church age has ended.
We call them “Tribulation Saints” for clarity and I think that confuses us. They are all actually Post-church-age believers. The saints in Rev 7 have “come out of the great tribulation. “ But I don’t think that group necessarily includes every believer in the post-church age.
The believers will be forced to prove out their faith by standing with Christ to the death. Whether that means the head chopping, (which I believe will be the vast majority of the initial believers) or riding it all out while doing good works unto the Jewish people. With anything and everything that comes to them, they will have to stand.
And although not filled with the Holy Spirit, I believe that the Holy Spirit will be on the earth, in the Old Testament kind of way. Helping and giving strength and showing Himself true and making ways for Believers. God adores His tribulation saints and will not leave them abandoned.
The mark will be introduced at the midpoint of the trib and those who receive it will certainly be damned…NOT because what has been put on or under their skin, but because of the worship of the beast they will do before receiving it. That is what damns them. If someone chooses to reject Christ and worship the beast before the mark is introduced, they will be just as damned.
From what I have studied about dispensations, there is some disagreement and confusion as to whether the actual seven year tribulation period itself is it’s own dispensation, or parenthetical dispensation. I am thinking not.
We leave…the church age ends…the Restrainer is gone…judgements fall upon the earth. That “parenthetical dispensation of Judgment”—-as Clarence Larkin beautifully maps it out—-begins the moment after the rapture. Having nothing to do with the timing of the signing of the covenant.
The signing may perfectly overlay our departure, or it may not. It does not matter to us or to those left behind.
Greg
Well-known
Sorry... I didn't see that post. But in my opinion it's just as wrong to say there's absolutely no gap. I think I've personally been very consistent in saying I think there's almost certainly a gap, because that's where Scripture leads me, but I can't be sure and allow for the fact I could be wrong. But no, it probably isn't critical.Well someone in another thread stated that the Gap theory was a fact and this whole gap thing keeps coming up again and again and again even back in the Rapture Forums days. Why are some so hung up on that when it is just a theory and does not affect us anyway? Everyone can have their opinion but saying it is a fact is just too much. I was trying to be nice, but that did not work with some, so I decided to shout it out!
What if my opinion is incorrect? It's not! That's about all I can tell you. Of course you are free to believe whatever you want.
Don't you think it would be kind of strange if the Bible that is supposed to contain all the knowledge we need goes from the Old Testament to the New Testament to Revelation but skips the Gap?
To give a possible answer to your earlier question, though, I agree with the age of Grace ending at the Rapture. I think most of us here are dispensationalists of one sort or another. We usually break down the Old Testament into multiple dispensations to try to understand how God dealt with His people during those times. What if what comes next is the dispensation of Judgement, and the Tribulation is a large (probably very large) subset of that? What is the Tribulation, after all? It's a specific number of days between two specific events -- an agreement of some sort and the return of Christ. That's pretty much it -- if I'm missing some specific scripture that specifically indicates more, please point it out, because I admit I'm writing this somewhat off the cuff. But you'll find a lot that talks about judgement.
I also agree that God is a God of infinite order and precision. Yet He allowed about a forty year overlap between the Crucifixion and the destruction of the second temple. To me, that's at least a little bit of a precedent.
Andiamo
Hanging on to the Throne
Oh ok, I get it. Thank you. I guess I just always thought that we won’t necessarily know if that covenant is being drawn up. Lord only knows what is going on in those dark, smoke-filled rooms behind the curtain. The antichrist could be rising, and the papers already being drawn up.
Ghoti Ichthus
Genesis 18:32, 2 Chronicles 7:14, Acts 5:29
Treaty, addenda, etc. signings aren't always public at the time. Even in these days of instantaneous communication, some things don't come out for a day or two. Some things are close-hold/classified for all sorts of reasons.
1LoverofGod
Well-known
From what I have understood it would seem that a covenant would already be drawn up and The Antichrist "confirms" it, makes it stronger.
Greg
Well-known
Very likely, and even less imminent.
Margery
Well-known
Exactly!
It's not about the gap, it's about the fact that without some gap we suddenly see who the AC is. I'll add a couple of thoughts on that.1
The entire pre trib prophecy watching world would be all over any news --anytime --anywhere -- involving Israel signing a covenant. And many have already jumped the gun on that one (thinking of last fall with the UN in one of their multitudes of documents but it involved the whole world and Israel was one of many)
Good luck to any AC worth his salt getting that puppy signed with a world wide audience of Christians joyfully playing pin the tail on the AC.
Since the Bible specifies that we DON'T see the AC (therefore there's no point playing that game although it is totally fun to speculate about) - when we go up, he shows up. He literally CANNOT show up till the Restrainer stops restraining and that is when we are taken up.
2
And that brings me to another point. And that is the covenant with death and hell as Isaiah 28:18 calls it. Daniel points it out and that covenant becomes the time stamp for the Tribulation period.
It's not just who signs it.
It's also a time stamp prophecy that the Tribulation saints can use to spot the start of the Tribulation and start the countdown to the time Jesus shows up at the end of the Tribulation. That is underscored by the number of times we see the time involved mentioned over and over and over.
This is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IN A BACK ROOM. It WON'T be done in secret.
Because God is using it to reassure the Tribulation Saints, to give them hope and a sure understanding that there IS an end to the suffering especially if they survive to the end - it makes ZERO sense for God to give this sign and then allow the enemy to hide it.
This will not be a hidden event. IT HAS to be public and publicly available as a matter of record for God to use it as a sign. BECAUSE the saints of the Trib are counting the days. They don't need to second guess was it this document or maybe that one. This will be a big event, something that every saint around the globe who has a Bible available will be able to breathe a sigh of relief and know exactly when it started.
3
For Israel to bother signing onto something that Isaiah and Daniel warn against, the rabbis, the Sanhedrin, the Knesset AND the prime minister all have to see it as a benefit to Israel.
After all Isaiah talks about it as avoiding the overwhelming scourge. So whoever is behind that covenant (the AC) is causing something overwhelming to pass thru the nations. Israel sees an opportunity and signs this covenant in order to AVOID trouble.
(side track, Isaiah 28 vs 11 + 12 is so incredibly pointed- the way God thru Isaiah sends people of foreign languages to tell where their rest is - in Christ in other words but they won't listen)
My point here is this. For Israel to see the worth in signing ANYTHING there has to be a measurable net benefit to Israel - and the worth of any covenant lies in the ones signing it. You DON'T expect big things from a nobody.
This person, the AC has been creating issues in order for Israel to see the benefit in cutting a covenant with him. For that to happen, he has to have carved out a reputation. Isaiah pointedly calls his actions the overwhelming scourge.
For that to happen (I"m using Jack Kelley's beautiful system of back tracing the necessary elements here)
The AC has to be a player on the world stage and gaining a reputation.
My first point about the Christian audience- we love to play pin the tail on the AC, so for the Bible to say that he CANNOT show up until we (and the restrainer in our midst) are taken up means that the AC cannot appear and have an international reputation until we are out of here.
A very clear order of events
RAPTURE takes the Christians and the Restrainer UP and out of the way
THEN and only then is the "lawless one" revealed, aka the man of sin, son of perdition.
2 Thess 2: 3-8
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
Andiamo
Hanging on to the Throne
What? This thread is fantastic!
Margery
Well-known
To Rose's point here:
I have wondered often if the Trump peace plan might be used. It got shelved in favour of the Abraham Accords rather fast but it's still there. Gathering dust. And there was such a kaffuffle bringing it out into the light of day, I started to wonder if it was the framework for the future covenant with the AC.
The covenant may already be set up- a framework in principle, that the AC uses to create the new agreement but the signing is public.
I have wondered often if the Trump peace plan might be used. It got shelved in favour of the Abraham Accords rather fast but it's still there. Gathering dust. And there was such a kaffuffle bringing it out into the light of day, I started to wonder if it was the framework for the future covenant with the AC.
Goodboy
Just waiting for the Rapture at this point!
Andiamo
Hanging on to the Throne
My dear brother, I love you.
And this made me laugh!
It reminds me so much of those late night
I love how passionate you are about the rapture my brother.
1LoverofGod
Well-known
I've thought the same. The Abraham accords could be strengthened and maybe AC could add the building of the Temple as part of the covenant. Maybe
Goodboy
Just waiting for the Rapture at this point!
It was fantastic, but now when we should be talking about what is going on in the world like the Rapture, the Middle East and the soon Tribulation we are busy debating about if there is a gap. How is that really helpful to anyone. It is just a distraction from what we should really be discussing which is how to get people saved before the Tribulation which is close at hand. Satan loves when we are distracted.
Andiamo
Hanging on to the Throne
The rains and burstings came the same day.
I have seen some teachers move those verses around to what they claim is the true chronological order, justifying that by saying it was written in an ancient poetic circle kind of way or something. Anyway, they then say that it took 7 days for it to rain.
Similar threads
- Article
