Who Is Your Favorite End Times Teacher/Pastor?

[Hol]

So what occurred to me over time is that what seems to be the focus in end times hysteria is how we can help the body of believers because of where we are at. Proving pastor A wrong and going after paster B because of false this or that is well enough calling awareness. But it did not see to solve the other ailment of our age. Quadrupling down on our own convictions. And it would seem that condition spread to further divide the body all over the place. Which might seem to be a victory for the enemy.

We are living in times where over-hyping and hysteria leads to division. We need to guard our minds against getting sucked into those rabbit holes.

I've spent a little time and studied something from recent church history, the 1850 - 1920 period, specifically the departure from truth that the Ivy League schools (Harvard & Princeton) and a pivotal sermon by Harry Emerson Fosdick's “Shall the Fundamentalists Win?”

I love listening to audio books by Dwight Moody, AW Tozer, and Spurgeon. Moody & Spurgeon were preaching during the mid to late 1850s. On occasion they would touch on two historical challenges in their times: German higher criticism to Scripture, and Darwin's highly popular theory of evolution. Both preachers fought the popularity of those challenges, holding onto biblical inerrancy. It was a small group in the US, notably Fosdick and Pearl Buck, who grabbed the wheel to drive the church away from fundamentalism. There were five beliefs people had to hold to preach in a Presbyterian church or attend an Ivy League school: 1) the inerrancy of the Scriptures, 2) the deity of Christ, 3) His virgin birth, 4) His substitutionary atonement, and 5) His physical resurrection and future bodily return.

AW Tozer was born in 1897 and I think he beautifully captures the transition where the church was able once again to follow the five fundamentals during the 1950s.

Meanwhile some false teachers found people who would follow their hysteria. Jehovah Witnesses, 1872; Seventh Day Adventists, 1872; Christian Scientists, 1860; and one earlier cult, Mormons, 1830.

Anyhow, it's good to remember how easily we can get sucked into hysterical thinking.

I love this summary:

• This is the top 5 views of this passage (or event in history)
• Here are the pros and cons of those views
• Here is the view I favor
• Here are the prose and cons more specific to the view I favor
• Here is why it is the best option

 

[Andy C]

End time events are connected with 'salvation', with Israel, with the Church, with the Holy Spirit.

I think I know what you mean in regards to salvation, but can you clarify the “connected” portion in the above quoted?

 

[Amethyst]

Someone recently made this comment on a Pete Garcia video:

“JD Farag finally said repentance is a full 180 turn around and didn’t go on with that change of mind nonsense they usually go on about”


Is JD a Calvinist?

 

[1LoverofGod]

Someone recently made this comment on a Pete Garcia video:

“JD Farag finally said repentance is a full 180 turn around and didn’t go on with that change of mind nonsense they usually go on about”


Is JD a Calvinist?

I wouldn't go by a comment made on a video post. If we hear it from JD himself that's a different story and in that case then his beliefs can be questioned.

 

[Amethyst]

I wouldn't go by a comment made on a video post. If we hear it from JD himself that's a different story and in that case then his beliefs can be questioned.

I haven’t watched him in forever so idk
I’m just assuming this person would not flat out lie

 

[1LoverofGod]

I haven’t watched him in forever so idk
I’m just assuming this person would not flat out lie

Do we know the person who made that comment to know for sure he wouldn't lie?
We don't know.
When there's an accusation made it needs to be confirmed before coming to conclusions.
Did the person who made that comment say when the comments were made by JD and where he heard it?

 

[Amethyst]

Do we know the person who made that comment to know for sure he wouldn't lie?
We don't know.
When there's an accusation made it needs to be confirmed before coming to conclusions.

Which is why I was asking on this forum to see if anyone could verify

 

[1LoverofGod]

Which is why I was asking on this forum to see if anyone could verify

JD is known for having some unorthodox statements regarding world events but as for Bible teaching most who have heard him can agree he stays within Scripture.
I would be interested in hearing him make a statement contrary to scripture for myself, but where and when did he say it?
To go away from what the Bible says with a different belief is leaning towards apostasy and this is why it's important to confirm hearsay

 

[TCC]

Which is why I was asking on this forum to see if anyone could verify

Hi Amethyst and 1loverofGod. I have heard for many years now JDs ABC's of salvation at the end of his sermons. I had also been a Calvinist for 20 years (no longer reformed for 7 years). From what i understand, the concern is that JD might be using "turn from your sins" as a requirement for salvation? On that point, i have never heard JD out right say that kind of thing. Although JD would likely uphold that a believer likely will want to. That is different though.

From the sound and nature of the comment, here is my 2 cents. When someone says a statement like that "that change of mind nonsense they usually go on about," that, to me, factors in quite a bit in how to understand where someone is coming from. If they use a loaded statement like that, it infers that the person that said that has not entertained what is meant by the ABC's and why JD (or other free gracers like Ryrie) might hold that view. It seems that is a statement out of purposed bias. When a statemetn of purposed bias is stated, it is telling us this person is looking at things through certain lenses. Lenses that attest to not being beyond bias. Therefore, if this person were looking for something JD might have said, it would stand to reason (by this person's bias in statement alone) that they are hearing something in the way they in bias want to hear it.

So what a statement like that tends to inform is what would be called in literature "an unreliable narrative." Like a person in a novel who is telling us something and in their viewpoint becomes obvious through other indicators in the story that there is probably something not to be trusted by that narrative or account. Like a story device to have the reader on a treasure hunt for what is really going on.

https://www.masterclass.com/articles/what-is-an-unreliable-narrator-4-ways-to-create-an-unreliable-narrator-in-writing

I just bring that up because the way the commentor framed his logic is from an innate bias on its face. If that makes sense?

As far as i know JD is in no wise Calvinist. Every sermon he does includes the ABC's of salvation:

Acknowledge we are sinners
Believe on Christ's provision and resurrection
Confess with our mouth he is Lord

Andy Woods might go as far as to say even confession might be a bridge too far. Because the mute person can also be saved. Hopes this is helpful to a degree. Blessings.

 

[Amethyst]

I just bring that up because the way the commentor framed his logic is from an innate bias on its face. If that makes sense?

I do understand what you're saying.
But I was curious because they said he "finally" said it. As in, they have been waiting for a long time for him to admit that or something.

In the 2-3 years I listened to him I never got a calvinist or Lordship vibe so I didn't know if I never saw that or if he had changed. Or if the person simply misundertsood.
I also was confused why they were saying it in a live pete garcia video, which seemed out of place.

 

[1LoverofGod]

Which is why I was asking on this forum to see if anyone could verify

I found the video. It's this past Sunday Sermon.
First off, JD is teaching on the Laodecean Church in Revelation 3 in this sermon.
I listened to the entire sermon.
Close to the end of it he brings up repentance.
He points out how Jesus sees the church of Laodecea as being Lukewarm but because of the church's spiritual blindness it doesn't see itself as Jesus sees it.
When he gets to talking about repentance he said
Repentance is a change of mind, an about face, a 180 turn.
He says no one should despise the chastening of The Lord, and quotes Romans 2:4 that it's in God's kindness that He leads us to repentance.

I didn't hear him say anything contrary to scripture in his sermon.
The link is below for anyone to listen for themselves.

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

www.youtube.com

 

[Andy C]

I found the video. It's this past Sunday Sermon.
First off, JD is teaching on the Laodecean Church in Revelation 3 in this sermon.
I listened to the entire sermon.
Close to the end of it he brings up repentance.
He points out how Jesus sees the church of Laodecea as being Lukewarm but because of the church's spiritual blindness it doesn't see itself as Jesus sees it.
When he gets to talking about repentance he said
Repentance is a change of mind, an about face, a 180 turn.
He says no one should despise the chastening of The Lord, and quotes Romans 2:4 that it's in God's kindness that He leads us to repentance.

I didn't hear him say anything contrary to scripture in his sermon.
The link is below for anyone to listen for themselves.

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

www.youtube.com

His sermons are usually fine, its his prophecy updates that can get murky.

 

[Quantrill]

I think I know what you mean in regards to salvation, but can you clarify the “connected” portion in the above quoted?

With Israel concerning salvation and end time events: See (Rom. 11:26) Then read all of (Rom. 9-11) Also, (Rev. 7:4-8) and (Rev. 14:13) This involves the salvation of Israel which will not be complete till the end times.

With the Church concerning salvation and end time events: See (Rom. 8:18-25) and (1 Thess. 4:13-17) This involves the Christians salvation in the end when he gets his redeemed body back, which will not occur till the end times.

With the Holy Spirit concerning salvation and end time events, the Holy Spirit has and will be active through out God's call of believing Jews and Christians. (John 3:8) And the Holy Spirit is active all the way to the end time events resisting the march of the 'Mystery of Iniquity' till He be taken out of the way in the end times. (2 Thess. 27)

God has not dealt with the Church and Israel on the earth at the same time. Two separate bodies of believers. But the Holy Spirit is active in the salvation of both bodies all the way to the end times. Depending on which one is present on the earth at that time.

Quantrill

 

[Amethyst]

When he gets to talking about repentance he said
Repentance is a change of mind, an about face, a 180 turn

That sounds like he is just saying in your mind its a turn, 180 change of mind (from thinking that we're ok without Jesus)
It's not the same as when some people claim you need to really change your life 180 turn or you havent really repented.

Thank you, Rose.

 

[1LoverofGod]

That sounds like he is just saying in your mind its a turn, 180 change of mind (from thinking that we're ok without Jesus)
It's not the same as when some people claim you need to really change your life 180 turn or you havent really repented.

Thank you, Rose.

In listening to the entire sermon JD described repentance accurately.
Maybe the person who commented on Pete's video started watching JD late and didn't hear his entire explanation on repentance. I don't know. I don't want to speculate the comment not knowing the mindset of the poster.

 

[1LoverofGod]

His sermons are usually fine, its his prophecy updates that can get murky.

His prophecy updates can go away from what is actually in Bible prophecy, and it occurs with other Pastors as well.
It's important as Bereans to distinguish the difference from what's actually in scripture and speculation about world events not specified in Scripture. That can help us to not get too caught up in unbiblical unverifiable speculation.

 

[Andy C]

His prophecy updates can go away from what is actually in Bible prophecy, and it occurs with other Pastors as well.
It's important as Bereans to distinguish the difference from what's actually in scripture and speculation about world events not specified in Scripture. That can help us to not get too caught up in unbiblical unverifiable speculation.

Yes, that is true at times with him.

He as stated the covid jab loaded a program into our bodies whch can be controlled by…..? Also, those that took the vaccine are somewhat like zombies, walking around changed in personality from what they were pre jab. Also, those who took the jab “shed” disease from the vaccine and he tries to stay away from them.

If he quit talking every week about the jab, and some conspiracies, the rest is good to go.

 

[1LoverofGod]

Yes, that is true at times with him.

He as stated the covid jab loaded a program into our bodies whch can be controlled by…..? Also, those that took the vaccine are somewhat like zombies, walking around changed in personality from what they were pre jab. Also, those who took the jab “shed” disease from the vaccine and he tries to stay away from them.

If he quit talking every week about the jab, and some conspiracies, the rest is good to go.

I have heard those claims from others about the nano bots in the jabs and the mRNA changing DNA. I take those things with a grain of salt especially since I am not an expert on those scientific matters. I doubt he comes up with these things on his own. He likely heard it from sources he listened to
I just know I Trust The Lord. I refuse to let fear get the best of me because God has not given us a spirit of fear but a spirit of Love and Power and of a Sound mind.
We don't need to worry about what is said in the world.
We Are More than Conquerors in Christ Jesus.

 

[Hol]

In listening to the entire sermon JD described repentance accurately.

I understand that there is a fine distinction regarding repentance, and why Pastor Woods is careful to describe it as a change of mind. But, you'd never hear Pastor Woods using the 'ABCs' of salvation.

Another razor fine distinction that I have (not Pastor Woods) is a minority view of John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day." and that the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, not sins, but sin. He convicts us of only one sin which is unbelief in Jesus.

I'll give my view: We have to do one repentance, we need to turn from not believing in Jesus to believing. Our personal sins/behaviors are not a primary issue. It's the Holy Spirit's conviction for us to turn to Jesus that matters.

The 'C' confessing isn't really an issue in my perspective because nothing but turning from unbelief to: We begin trusting Jesus is truth, salvation, and God's Only Son (and that is all that matters). My reaction to that was humble, I merely acknowledged it. My confession of that truth came out of joy, not a need to affirm my salvation.

It's kind of a work to put 'confess' from myself as part of my totally unconditional gift of salvation. I never felt compelled to confess anything, it simply flowed out.

So I don't agree with the ABCs. Becoming a Christian is simply a response to God's appeal to all mankind -- that the Holy Spirit convicts us of the single sin of unbelief. Once anyone believes in God, our Savior Jesus; they are saved. In my case, months later I began recognizing my sinful pagan behaviors and those were dealt with in His discipline. My behavior, good or bad, never affected my salvation; it does affect my sanctification.

Calvinists hold to a different view of the Holy Spirit's conviction and God's drawing. I think all people are convicted/drawn. They suggest that humans are so deprived that it takes a miraculous 'effectual' call from God. In reality ordinary people can respond to God's conviction and drawing. Calvinists think that only the 'elect' can respond because God gives them a special recipe of pre-chosen status. Calvinists view that most of us could never freely respond to the Holy Spirit's conviction that we were in unbelief, that we could not because of Total Depravity (Calvinist legalistic doctrine that leads to allowing the 'elect' to be, well, better than others; something to be proud of after all). Calvinists are big on two things: Works from their human flesh, and total inability to EVER respond to God's revelation of Himself by grace. They cloak their 'not our works' denial of God's grace with an imperative that their works prove they are 'elect' through the TULIP theology. They truly believe that only an elect few can believe and deny that it's our Father's will that NONE perish.

It seems that JD hasn't a deep understanding of the issues like Pastor Woods has.

 

[1LoverofGod]

I understand that there is a fine distinction regarding repentance, and why Pastor Woods is careful to describe it as a change of mind. But, you'd never hear Pastor Woods using the 'ABCs' of salvation.

Another razor fine distinction that I have (not Pastor Woods) is a minority view of John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day." and that the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, not sins, but sin. He convicts us of only one sin which is unbelief in Jesus.

I'll give my view: We have to do one repentance, we need to turn from not believing in Jesus to believing. Our personal sins/behaviors are not a primary issue. It's the Holy Spirit's conviction for us to turn to Jesus that matters.

The 'C' confessing isn't really an issue in my perspective because nothing but turning from unbelief to: We begin trusting Jesus is truth, salvation, and God's Only Son (and that is all that matters). My reaction to that was humble, I merely acknowledged it. My confession of that truth came out of joy, not a need to affirm my salvation.

It's kind of a work to put 'confess' from myself as part of my totally unconditional gift of salvation. I never felt compelled to confess anything, it simply flowed out.

So I don't agree with the ABCs. Becoming a Christian is simply a response to God's appeal to all mankind -- that the Holy Spirit convicts us of the single sin of unbelief. Once anyone believes in God, our Savior Jesus; they are saved. In my case, months later I began recognizing my sinful pagan behaviors and those were dealt with in His discipline. My behavior, good or bad, never affected my salvation; it does affect my sanctification.

Calvinists hold to a different view of the Holy Spirit's conviction and God's drawing. I think all people are convicted/drawn. They suggest that humans are so deprived that it takes a miraculous 'effectual' call from God. In reality ordinary people can respond to God's conviction and drawing. Calvinists think that only the 'elect' can respond because God gives them a special recipe of pre-chosen status. Calvinists view that most of us could never freely respond to the Holy Spirit's conviction that we were in unbelief, that we could not because of Total Depravity (Calvinist legalistic doctrine that leads to allowing the 'elect' to be, well, better than others; something to be proud of after all). Calvinists are big on two things: Works from their human flesh, and total inability to EVER respond to God's revelation of Himself by grace. They cloak their 'not our works' denial of God's grace with an imperative that their works prove they are 'elect' through the TULIP theology. They truly believe that only an elect few can believe and deny that it's our Father's will that NONE perish.

It seems that JD hasn't a deep understanding of the issues like Pastor Woods has.

Honestly I don't know about JD using the ABC's but my response was to the comment made on Pete Garcia's video Livestream that started this conversation. I agree that we can't tell a person how to come to salvation by using ABC's because Scripture tells us personal belief and confession is needed as noted in Romans 10:9

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved

I think every time JD is mentioned it goes off into a wild direction lol.
My only response was to the post made by Amethyst.
Thanks for sharing