Considering 2024 - Is The World Ripe For Rapture?

[Andy C]

There are many ideas about when Eze 38-39 will happen. I personally believe we're seeing the pieces falling into place for that event to occur at some later date. The Bible doesn't tell us when it is going to happen, but there are enough details shared so that people can make educated guesses. Even so, those educated guesses are still all over the place. I for one believe it is a pre-Tribulation war, but not necessarily before the Rapture... more likely in the gap.

I tend to agree with this. After the rapture, Israel will definitely be ripe for attack, or at least thats what the Gog lead coalition will think….

 

[TCC]

There are many ideas about when Eze 38-39 will happen. I personally believe we're seeing the pieces falling into place for that event to occur at some later date. The Bible doesn't tell us when it is going to happen, but there are enough details shared so that people can make educated guesses. Even so, those educated guesses are still all over the place. I for one believe it is a pre-Tribulation war, but not necessarily before the Rapture... more likely in the gap.

Thanks Tall. As a prior reformed believer, my camp had it mapped at the end of the 1,000 year reign. I believed that is possible and maybe even if we saw a lot of signs now perhaps it would jsut be "signs" of what was to come at the end of the 1,000 year reign (but like a kind gesture and wink from the Lord to signal a near tribulation period even though Ez 38 having 0 to be about it or in reference to it).

I would see Saudi normalization as a pretty key event. That and a strengthening of Abraham Accords in general. I'm not really much of a gap theory guy, but that is pretty cool you might see at pretrib. Whatever the case it seems to have a slow burn but definite burn effect. Blessing.s

 

[Goodboy]

Good point Goodboy. I'd say one thing the world can watch for now is Ez 38 fulfilling. Blessings.

1) So some say that prophecy in the New Testament speaking of the end times is just for the Jews.
2) Some say that prophecy in the New Testament speaking of the end times is just for those in the Tribulation.
3) Some say that prophecy in the New testament speaking of the end times is for Christians before the Rapture.

1) If the prophecy in the New Testament speaking of the end times is just for the Jews, they don't believe in the New Testament so how would they know about it?
2) If the prophecy in the New Testament speaking of the end times is just for those in the Tribulation, they will already know when the end is, as it last 7 years.
3) If the prophecy in the New Testament speaking of the end times is for us Christians, that would make sense as that is all we have to go on.

Once the tribulations starts, won't everyone know when Jesus will return?

So please explain to me how prophecy in the New Testament speaking of the end times would be helpful to Categories 1 and 2? I am asking this as a question not as an argument or debate.

 

[1LoverofGod]

1) So some say that prophecy in the New Testament speaking of the end times is just for the Jews.
2) Some say that prophecy in the New Testament speaking of the end times is just for those in the Tribulation.
3) Some say that prophecy in the New testament speaking of the end times is for Christians before the Rapture.

1) If the prophecy in the New Testament speaking of the end times is just for the Jews, they don't believe in the New Testament so how would they know about it?
2) If the prophecy in the New Testament speaking of the end times is just for those in the Tribulation, they will already know when the end is, as it last 7 years.
3) If the prophecy in the New Testament speaking of the end times is for us Christians, that would make sense as that is all we have to go on.

Once the tribulations starts, won't everyone know when Jesus will return?

So please explain to me how prophecy in the New Testament speaking of the end times would be helpful to Categories 1 and 2? I am asking this as a question not as an argument or debate.

Speaking for myself, prophecy in general was intended for Israel beginning with the coming of Messiah in the first coming. Prophecy is for all, Jews and Gentiles in the Old Testament and New Testament. God speaks to the nations when speaking of The Day of The Lord.
God's plan of salvation began before the foundation of the world as Paul explains the purpose The Church was formed. This is why John 3:16 says Jesus was sent because God so loved the world that whosoever believes in Him may be saved.
When it comes to the Olivet Discourse in answer to the three part question the disciples asked Jesus, He made His specific answers to the Jews. At the time the first disciples of Jesus were not yet the church because that mystery hadn't yet been revealed until Jesus appointed Paul Apostle to the Gentiles.
When reading Matthew 24 and 25 the things Jesus speaks of can only apply to the Jews. Who else would be living in Judea and be told to flee to the mountains for safety, which coincides with Revelation 12 when an angel guides the Jews to safety because Antichrist is going to kill them.
As the church awaiting the rapture, we have only been told to watch for the return of The Master, but have no sign to watch for, so we watch for Jesus. Jesus did say if we knew when a thief was going to break in, we would prepare to prevent it. But we don't know when the Master will return so we watch. For Him. Not signs.
It's not unfair that Jesus gave us no signs specifically to the rapture, but in knowing Scripture and the pre trib rapture, we have an idea more or less when Jesus will appear for the Rapture because of prophecy for Israel.
Bible prophecy is for everyone, Jew and Gentile. However, is our Rapture all we ought to be focused on?
The purpose of the church was planned before the foundation of the world.
Jesus gave us a commission and we are to be busy about The Father's business.
Evangelizing and discipleship and leading people to Christ, first to the Jew then to the Gentile.
But no, Prophecy is not only for the Jews but prophecy was given mainly for the Jews.
I don't think there's any prophecy related to the rapture. Only what Paul tells us about it, and of course John 14:1-4 but nothing is mentioned about the timing.
Only the revealing of the mystery of the church to Paul and instruction for the church to make our purpose more fruitful until the fullness of the Gentiles is complete.
I think I need to quit here because I am no Eschatology Theologian but I study and listen to various teachers and confirm with scripture.
I honestly don't believe we can give a date or feast or anything to figure out when the rapture is.
If 2024 passes and we are still here, I only hope no one waiting for the Rapture will grow more weary than what the world causes alone. But if we are out of here hooray and we will celebrate in Heaven.

 

[Andy C]

Speaking for myself, prophecy in general was intended for Israel beginning with the coming of Messiah in the first coming. Prophecy is for all, Jews and Gentiles in the Old Testament and New Testament. God speaks to the nations when speaking of The Day of The Lord.
God's plan of salvation began before the foundation of the world as Paul explains the purpose The Church was formed. This is why John 3:16 says Jesus was sent because God so loved the world that whosoever believes in Him may be saved.
When it comes to the Olivet Discourse in answer to the three part question the disciples asked Jesus, He made His specific answers to the Jews. At the time the first disciples of Jesus were not yet the church because that mystery hadn't yet been revealed until Jesus appointed Paul Apostle to the Gentiles.
When reading Matthew 24 and 25 the things Jesus speaks of can only apply to the Jews. Who else would be living in Judea and be told to flee to the mountains for safety, which coincides with Revelation 12 when an angel guides the Jews to safety because Antichrist is going to kill them.
As the church awaiting the rapture, we have only been told to watch for the return of The Master, but have no sign to watch for, so we watch for Jesus. Jesus did say if we knew when a thief was going to break in, we would prepare to prevent it. But we don't know when the Master will return so we watch. For Him. Not signs.
It's not unfair that Jesus gave us no signs specifically to the rapture, but in knowing Scripture and the pre trib rapture, we have an idea more or less when Jesus will appear for the Rapture because of prophecy for Israel.
Bible prophecy is for everyone, Jew and Gentile. However, is our Rapture all we ought to be focused on?
The purpose of the church was planned before the foundation of the world.
Jesus gave us a commission and we are to be busy about The Father's business.
Evangelizing and discipleship and leading people to Christ, first to the Jew then to the Gentile.
But no, Prophecy is not only for the Jews but prophecy was given mainly for the Jews.
I don't think there's any prophecy related to the rapture. Only what Paul tells us about it, and of course John 14:1-4 but nothing is mentioned about the timing.
Only the revealing of the mystery of the church to Paul and instruction for the church to make our purpose more fruitful until the fullness of the Gentiles is complete.
I think I need to quit here because I am no Eschatology Theologian but I study and listen to various teachers and confirm with scripture.
I honestly don't believe we can give a date or feast or anything to figure out when the rapture is.
If 2024 passes and we are still here, I only hope no one waiting for the Rapture will grow more weary than what the world causes alone. But if we are out of here hooray and we will celebrate in Heaven.

Well stated sister, you’re hitting home runs today!

 

[Goodboy]

When it comes to the Olivet Discourse in answer to the three part question the disciples asked Jesus, He made His specific answers to the Jews. At the time the first disciples of Jesus were not yet the church because that mystery hadn't yet been revealed until Jesus appointed Paul Apostle to the Gentiles.
When reading Matthew 24 and 25 the things Jesus speaks of can only apply to the Jews. Who else would be living in Judea and be told to flee to the mountains for safety, which coincides with Revelation 12 when an angel guides the Jews to safety because Antichrist is going to kill them.

Yes Jesus was speaking to the Jews by birth, but not the Jews by religion which is what I was referring to. Christians are just Christ followers which Jews by religion are not. In fact, Paul himself was a Jew by birth but later became a Christian. My point was Jews by religion do not read or believe in the New Testament.

No one has explained to me why we are told to watch if we don't learn anything from it.

1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1 Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1 Thessalonians 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
I think I will just leave it there, as I don't seem to be getting anywhere.

 

[Goodboy]

I think it is time for me to unwatch this thread.

 

[Amethyst]

I think it is time for me to unwatch this thread.

Are you getting discouraged?

 

[1LoverofGod]

Yes Jesus was speaking to the Jews by birth, but not the Jews by religion which is what I was referring to. Christians are just Christ followers which Jews by religion are not. In fact, Paul himself was a Jew by birth but later became a Christian. My point was Jews by religion do not read or believe in the New Testament.

No one has explained to me why we are told to watch if we don't learn anything from it.

1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1 Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1 Thessalonians 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
I think I will just leave it there, as I don't seem to be getting anywhere.

I can't answer what you are seeking an answer to but maybe David Kuzik explains what you are referencing to better than I could
You may have to open the link to read because it wouldn't copy and paste properly...

2. (4-5) The basis for Paul’s exhortations.​

But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness.

will not be a complete surprise. No one knows the exact hour a thief will come, but some live in a general preparation against thieves. Those who are not in darkness, who live as they are all sons of light and sons of the day, these are ready for the return of Jesus Christ.


i. “Paul is led from a consideration of the day of the Lord to the thought that the Thessalonians have nothing to fear from the coming of that Day. This leads to the further thought that their lives should be in harmony with all that that day stands for.” (Morris)

ii. In some respect, the coming of Jesus will be a surprise for everybody, because no one knows the day or the hour (Matthew 24:36). But for Christians who know the times and the seasons, it will not be a complete surprise. No one knows the exact hour a thief will come, but some live in a general preparation against thieves. Those who are not in darkness, who live as they are all sons of light and sons of the day, these are ready for the return of Jesus.

iii. But if we are in darkness – perhaps caught up in some of the sin Paul warned against previously in this letter – then we are not ready and need to make ourselves ready for the return of Jesus.

Enduring Word Bible Commentary 1 Thessalonians Chapter 5

David Guzik commentary on 1 Thessalonians 5, where Paul exhorts the church in Thessalonica to be ready for the return of Jesus.

enduringword.com

 

[Goodboy]

Are you getting discouraged?

Absolutely!!!

I asked everyone to watch for themselves and ask the Holy Spirit to convince them of whatever. Then I am baited back in and it turns into a debate. I guess some people just love to debate. I am not interested in that. They can just debate all they want without me.

 

[1LoverofGod]

I think it is time for me to unwatch this thread.

Please don't be discouraged brother. Our not knowing when we are going home shouldn't discourage us. Our Hope is Promised and that should be enough. God doesn't break promises.
Trust God, not men, certainly not me. Trust God's promise alone. Jesus promised to come back for us and we believe Him. That is enough. I love you brother. I don't intend to discourage you at all. Just Trust in God.

 

[1LoverofGod]

Absolutely!!!

I asked everyone to watch for themselves and ask the Holy Spirit to convince them of whatever. Then I am baited back in and it turns into a debate. I guess some people just love to debate. I am not interested in that. They can just debate all they want without me.

I'm not a debater. I don't debate because I lose. Lol.
Seriously, what I have said is from scripture. If I give my personal opinion don't listen to me, listen to The Word of God Alone. God never changes. He's Trustworthy and Faithful. Don't let anyone discourage you. God gives us Hope not humans.

 

[Goodboy]

Please don't be discouraged brother. Our not knowing when we are going home shouldn't discourage us. Our Hope is Promised and that should be enough. God doesn't break promises.
Trust God, not men, certainly not me. Trust God's promise alone. Jesus promised to come back for us and we believe Him. That is enough. I love you brother. I don't intend to discourage you at all. Just Trust in God.

I am not at all discouraged with God or the Rapture.

I will state again why I am discouraged.
I asked everyone to watch for themselves and ask the Holy Spirit to convince them of whatever. Then I am baited back in and it turns into a debate. I guess some people just love to debate. I am not interested in that. They can just debate all they want without me.

 

[Goodboy]

I'm not a debater. I don't debate because I lose. Lol.
Seriously, what I have said is from scripture. If I give my personal opinion don't listen to me, listen to The Word of God Alone. God never changes. He's Trustworthy and Faithful. Don't let anyone discourage you. God gives us Hope not humans.

I was not referring to you. The person that I am referring to knows just who they are and I am now ignoring them.

 

[1LoverofGod]

I am not at all discouraged with God or the Rapture.

I will state again why I am discouraged.
I asked everyone to watch for themselves and ask the Holy Spirit to convince them of whatever. Then I am baited back in and it turns into a debate. I guess some people just love to debate. I am not interested in that. They can just debate all they want without me.

I completely understand that you are only wanting to share your excitement with others and want others to see what you see.
Not everyone can see what you see tying in this year to scripture and that's okay.
We can agree to disagree in love. The OP began with the video you shared about 2024 possibly being the year of the rapture. It may, it may not. We just don't know. We CAN Hope so though, but if it's not we can't let it discourage us. We wait on His promises.

 

[Goodboy]

We CAN Hope so though, but if it's not we can't let it discourage us. We wait on His promises

I am not discouraged with God or the Rapture as I stated before. I am discouraged by someone baiting me into continuing the discussion just so they could debate with me. I tried to end the conversation, but thought I was being nice when asked to answer some further questions. Well answering those questions just led to a debate, which is just what they wanted.

 

[Andy C]

This has been a good thread, but is going in circles, and my brain has a hard time keeping up, especially at night….

Im out!

 

[Cheeky200386]

Yes Jesus was speaking to the Jews by birth, but not the Jews by religion which is what I was referring to. Christians are just Christ followers which Jews by religion are not. In fact, Paul himself was a Jew by birth but later became a Christian. My point was Jews by religion do not read or believe in the New Testament.

No one has explained to me why we are told to watch if we don't learn anything from it.

1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1 Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1 Thessalonians 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
I think I will just leave it there, as I don't seem to be getting anywhere.

It could be that we are to watch for his return, meaning to stay vigilant in being about our Father’s business as we wait. If we don’t watch then we might lose hope or focus on ourselves, this life, and sin.

That’s how I see that verse. Not that we are watching for a specific time of the rapture, but that we are staying alert of his ability to return at any moment so we are to stay focused on righteousness.

I hope that answers your question. Just my initial thoughts. I have to go study it more closely and get back to you. I’m curious what the Greek is for the word Watch.

 

[Goodboy]

It could be that we are to watch for his return, meaning to stay vigilant in being about our Father’s business as we wait. If we don’t watch then we might lose hope or focus on ourselves, this life, and sin.

That’s how I see that verse. Not that we are watching for a specific time of the rapture, but that we are staying alert of his ability to return at any moment so we are to stay focused on righteousness.

I hope that answers your question. Just my initial thoughts. I have to go study it more closely and get back to you. I’m curious what the Greek is for the word Watch.

grēgoreuō
gray-gor-yoo'-o
From G1453; to keep awake, that is, watch (literally or figuratively): - be vigilant, wake, (be) watch (-ful).

And what about this verse?
1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

 

[TCC]

1) So some say that prophecy in the New Testament speaking of the end times is just for the Jews.
2) Some say that prophecy in the New Testament speaking of the end times is just for those in the Tribulation.
3) Some say that prophecy in the New testament speaking of the end times is for Christians before the Rapture.

1) If the prophecy in the New Testament speaking of the end times is just for the Jews, they don't believe in the New Testament so how would they know about it?
2) If the prophecy in the New Testament speaking of the end times is just for those in the Tribulation, they will already know when the end is, as it last 7 years.
3) If the prophecy in the New Testament speaking of the end times is for us Christians, that would make sense as that is all we have to go on.

Once the tribulations starts, won't everyone know when Jesus will return?

So please explain to me how prophecy in the New Testament speaking of the end times would be helpful to Categories 1 and 2? I am asking this as a question not as an argument or debate.

I tend to look at themes in relation to what God has revealed about His character, for the most part. Like Daniel was for the Jews. Yet they would kill their Messiah. Even though God knew they would reject Him, He gave the Jews very strong specific detail to look for. In His kindess, He would. It demonstrated His character toward an often stubborn people.

I don't believe the prophecies in the New Testament are just for the Jews. I believe as you have shared that they are partially hardened from the 1st century. Later in the tribulation when the Jews repent, they have a record of His faithfulness. I don't believe 2 is true either.

In general brother I don't look at age of grace end times though as the church having an especially keen insight into how everything is forming toward tribulation in the sense that we overly interept. In a general sense. Yes. In a blueprint specific sense like what Billy Crone, for example, does, no. Billy to me is a good example of hyper focus. What it looks like when the church sees itself as being the ones to be putting together massive pieces together in how we should look at things.

Please don't get me wrong. That is different than, "can it be helpful?" I believe it can. I find a lot of what Crone to do is fascinating and helpful. I would see the place for it more as augmentation rather than the main course. In contrast I believe the main course is what God is actually literally doing with the times we are in as they related to the tribulation age come. To me, those can be very different POVs. So on one hand I believe the church has seen literally things from Revelation. I believe Rev 12 sign was 9-23-17. But what the church then tries to do is tell us to expect the rapture at that time (when it was approaching). Or looking also for the red dragon sign to see how it fits and where is it then if that was the Rev 12 sign. Or that since nothing happened, move on, nothing to see here folks. It is in that "interpretive" space I find we really don't belong in.

In hopes to clarify, at least my position, and I realize this is absolutely no one elses...lol...but to provide backdrop in clarifying your number 1 and 2. I would say that the first seal is something the church sees unfolding. Could we be raptured before and I am mistaken? 100%. But if the church does see the 1st seal then we would transcend seeing signs to actually being in the current of prophecy. So in that sense not only does the church in 1 see signs, but live in the very current of prophecy itself in what I would believe to be the baton pass point and rapture bang zone. It would all be for us.

But the way the church watcher movement in general looks at it, we mostly see the 1st seal as AC. And look at the Abraham Accords as that which the AC will strengthen later. As connected to the events of the tribulaiton as that is, I don't believe that is the ultimate and most exacting way to see what is up on us to be interepreted as. Whereas If we can see the import things have now, it would probably make other surrounding events as they unfold more clear. So I don't think 1 or 2 is something I would try and defend. I do however generally see there is likely a priority of focus (the things that have been) in relation to where we are now (the things that are) to compliment, contrast, and hopefully even somewhat illuminate (the things that will be). Of the 3, I believe the weak link likely is "the things that are." Like how are we looking at what we are looking at that are/is now. If that makes sense?