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Considering 2024 - Is The World Ripe For Rapture?

I believe we have very little time left to be about our father's business. Here is something I posted a while back that speaks to why we are here and what we should be doing that I think is a good reminder at this time. šŸ˜Š

 
greĢ„goreuoĢ„
gray-gor-yoo'-o
From G1453; to keep awake, that is, watch (literally or figuratively): - be vigilant, wake, (be) watch (-ful).

And what about this verse? šŸ¤”
1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Iā€™m watching this video by Pete Garcia and I think you would appreciate it. He begins by explaining how we are called to Watch for Jesusā€™ return and how we can know the season. Then continues to defend the Pretib position. It made me think of you and this post.

 
Iā€™m watching this video by Pete Garcia and I think you would appreciate it. He begins by explaining how we are called to Watch for Jesusā€™ return and how we can know the season. Then continues to defend the Pretib position. It made me think of you and this post.

That video is 2 hours long. Can you just give me the cliff notes? šŸ¤”
 
Well, I would just like to say that I rather enjoy watching. And I believe that we are expected to watch for something. Being told to watch without knowing or at least making educated guesses about what you are watching for would just be silly. Itā€™s like telling a kid to look out the window and watch ā€” but not to watch for anything in particular. That kid would lose interest within minutes wouldnā€™t he?

Watching is kind of my hobby.
I donā€™t like the specific date setters but do enjoy speculating about possible time frames. Itā€™s not for everyone because it requires a certain mindset to avoid placing all of oneā€™s hopes on it.
I liken my attitude about it as similar to scratching off a lottery ticket. I hope, but am not devastated when the time frame is not a winner. Thereā€™s always a ā€œmaybe next timeā€ which alleviates any disappointment.

But my disappointment is very small if any, because I make sure not to place my Hope on a time frame, but in the Lord Himself and His promise to us that this thing WILL happenā€¦whether itā€™s tomorrow or after Iā€™m in the ground.

And the thing is, there is so much going on lately with Israel, and with Ezekiel 38 countries moving toward each otherā€¦.well, of course Iā€™m going to watch! I mean, to not watch now would be like seeing a big cloud of smoke in a neighborhood, and never look for the fire. Why on earth would I be lackadaisical at a time like this???

Itā€™s just a natural human inclination to wonder and be curious and dream and hope and look for things. Itā€™s about Jesus and His return for us and itā€™s super exciting and makes the drudgery of having to live in this HORRIBLE time we live in a little easier to bear. One of the benefits of being in this terminal generation, you might say. We get to watch. I think thatā€™s awesome.
 
The antichrist will confirm a treaty kicking off the tribulation. Daniel 9:27

The lawless one can't be revealed until the Restrainer is removed. 2 Thessalonians 2:7-8.

Therefore, there is almost certainly a gap of some duration if our understanding of these verses is correct. The Bible doesn't directly state it, but I don't think it needs to.
Why do you say that? šŸ¤”
At the same moment the antichrist confirms the treaty we could get Raptured. :noidea:

There is no gap required.
 
The antichrist will confirm a treaty kicking off the tribulation. Daniel 9:27

The lawless one can't be revealed until the Restrainer is removed. 2 Thessalonians 2:7-8.

Therefore, there is almost certainly a gap of some duration if our understanding of these verses is correct. The Bible doesn't directly state it, but I don't think it needs to.
I just saw this. I put a question under Bible Questions related to this. Maybe you can give your input on my question.
 
Since the Bible is silent on this topic, as a pastor I will remain silent, too. But as just another brother in Christ I need to ask, what difference does it make to us if there is or isn't a gap?
For me, if there's a gap the urgency is higher depending on how one understands imminency, because it truly can happen any day. Also, for those who watch, it may make a difference in what they're watching for.
 
Since the Bible is silent on this topic, as a pastor I will remain silent, too. But as just another brother in Christ I need to ask, what difference does it make to us if there is or isn't a gap?
For me, its not so much about the rapture as it is, I believe, more to do with being able in sync. There are not a lot of watchers running around with the need to be in sync. I realize. What I mean is this: Book of Revelation relevance to the believer at the tipy-top time of departure zone. We have had discussions about why the book of Revelation is important to the believer. My perspective might be more so related to the person of Christ as the Spirit of Prophecy. Whereas in general the watcher view would be about somewhat helpful details of Revelation we get wind of like this side of the end of the church age. It is on this latter point I believe is where watcher insights into Revelation would be at their peak.

As for imminence, I believe as so much contrast was coming at Israel in the 1st century, and as a transitional unprecidented historical movement of God moving His creation from an Old Testament to New Testament move, there would be a lot of moving parts. Paul would see the rapture as imminent...because the word of God was yet in transition from Old to New covenant. And the Bible was still being written. And the the scattered sense of parchment here and there (no printing press until 1500 years later) would somewhat be, I believe, the condition of the pioneering startup of church age. Thinking Christ coming back soon in years seemed to also be a sense in the first century.

But, in the way I look at it, I don't really think in terms of imminence. Is it possible, maybe even probable, that the rapture is signless and imminent? Yes. But in my senses toward how Revelation works it would seem it has an appointed season in Rev 12. The child going up is not right when it is born, but somewhere on the graph of the path associated with the woman/child imagery. On this pictorial graph line there is no gap sense. If that is a picture of the rapture it would be ironic how it is known adversely as a signless event.

But what I believe is perhaps helpful to consider in relation to the importance of a gap theory or no gap theory is being in sync with how events are forming and taking place. For exmaple we see Ez 38 with huge micro detail as far as prophecies go. That would suggest that the time that Ez 38 event is for will likely have contouers of detail that assocate with it. Which would imply syncing is "a thing" in the realm of that sociopolitical atmosphere. We might say at that juncture: "But that is for Isreal and the church wont be here." But what we do see now is enough of Ez 38 teasing us. Taunting us with its suggesting how formational under our noses it is also now becoming.

In the past I have used an example of the Abraham Accords. If enough of the church is concerned about that, it will broadcast from the internet and to its neighbors that the Abraham Accords is what the AC strengthens later. And makes it a covenant with the many. Perhaps this sort of emphasis comes on the wings other concerns watchers might see about the beast system forming, or Israel and Psalm 83, or Zachariah 12 etc. What I tend to see Pastor is that there tends to be a somewhat loud watcher market that ascerts what things are and becoming that may or may not be as linked as we believe. I guess we shall see.

Those not maybe looking at Ez 38 in certain ways will say, "It is imminent...its so close it could happen tomorrow." Yet, the Bible tells us it comes at a time Israel is at peace. Not at a time where they are in the news 24/7 waring all over the place. That is the exact opposite of sync. So the opposite of that would be what I mean by sync. It is understandable the church is excited. But we do see sensationalism likely making the most noise. Like Pastor Jack Hibbs and now Pastor Brandon Holthaus and others have implied that Christians that don't vote might not be saved. To me that is the epitome of trainwreck at the pulpit covetting relevence. The irony is that true pastors in the end times are very relevant. Just not self releveant. So I guess the more we can get away from pockets of the church imposing relevance on itself with sensationalism etc, the more we can see what things look like as genuine dust settles.

Philosphically perhaps the way end times works is somewhat the opposite of how we might have thought. 2017 - 2020 we were all pretty shocked that end times would be slow motion time released. I think most of us were thinking "peace and safety then sudden destruction" was about the world entering the tribulation. Most of us I believe were thinking the church warns of a flood coming while building an arc then bam the world gets it as we are out of here. I believe we all saw it pretty much in terror suddenly for the world. Then instead it was like we all started running underwater in slow mo. And now its like..."waaaaaaarniiiiiiiing, wiiiiiiiiiill, Rooooooooobiiiiiiiiiiiiinson, waaaaaaarniiiiiiiing" Much less exotic and cool than the movies. So what is the inverse of that mode? We become increasingly aware of what's up. John 15:15. To me, that structure ratching up for the church would likely dispose of any need of gap. Its just that if believers are down here a little longer than they think that we would be, some could panic etc. Many have already said that they are surprised that the church would be here to see so much. Almost like, "Are we also going to watch the global reset too? Eat bugs? Etc. I would think not. But I guess what might be helpful in respect to a gap theory would not be so much in trying to have our math right before liftoff...but what our understanding forms like while we can yet reach and relate to the land of the living as we are still here to do so.

In other words, I don't think there will be a gap. I believe the church is here until some blistering. And whatever might have been thought to be included in some gap theory time...I believe we likely see most of it. In saying that I say that as a pretribulation rapture guy. But how it helps is we might be here so far into a zone we never thought we might not be, it would help that we sync perhaps with reasons why or for what end necessary kind of thing. Like personally being encouraged to understand our revelvance in Christ and our sync with Jonn 15:15 what the Father is doing. And less about the sensational markets calling relevance to themselves by contrast. If that makes sense? Blessings.
 
In other words, I don't think there will be a gap. I believe the church is here until some blistering. And whatever might have been thought to be including in some gap theory time...I believe we likely see most of it. In saying that I say that as a pretribulation rapture guy. But how it helps is we might be here so far into a zone we never thought we might not be, it would help that we sync perhaps with reasons why or for what end necessary kind of thing.

That's very possible and if it proves to be the case then the Church is going to see a lot and experience a lot before departure, as the Bible does indicate that there are some significant things that will occur before Tribulation commences. That's been the scenario I personally lean towards the most but I can accept no gap, small gap, big gap... We'll be in heaven at that point, thankfully.
 
That's very possible and if it proves to be the case then the Church is going to see a lot and experience a lot before departure, as the Bible does indicate that there are some significant things that will occur before Tribulation commences. That's been the scenario I personally lean towards the most but I can accept no gap, small gap, big gap... We'll be in heaven at that point, thankfully.
Thanks Tall. From what I can tell generally the reason for gaps is to give God a make-up edge. Like "Wow, Lord, we have to go pretty far from point A to point B, so lets have a gap theory in case." Which is admirable. And I believe we could have any of the above as you say. But as God has seemed to show how He works in relation to all our guessing currently, it would seem possible that we don't really have all our oars in the water to soberly make judgement calls like that. I mean instead of a slow, sober, wading through, and nuanced view upon Ez 38, we just look at Abrhama Accords and go, "AC covenant in the future." Kind of fast food like in ways. Well the more we size up along the way on short order the more likely we could unfortunately paint quite an absurd portrait. BUT GOD. And it would seem since none of us have been through end times before, God might make allowances for that too...amen.

What events do you see that have to occur? The temple? Or....? As for me I understand it starts with the covenant of the many and then seals roll in (or if on my view its seal high tide, then tribulation seal low tide).

The more I think about it yeah I suppose a short between period could exist. I would think it not be long for 2 main reasons. 1, no more chance to rapture...no need to wait. And 2, the 70th week is what the church is pulled out from. Not a blueprint to match with our schematics. So it would seem that the rapture be almost moments from if not at the same time as the tribulation. Because the whole point of rapture is the 70th week. Not a ramp leading to it. But yeah only God knows. Amen.

As I was thinking about it too, something else interesting Rev 12 does in my view is "skew view match." This would be a philosphical theory that perhaps (because God is personal) God might give mood ring coloring to Rev pictographs. Or "poetic vibe" match. In this way what something "might" look like in that sense could be: Just as we thought BAM peace and safety then sudden distruction....nope. If Rev 12 woman/child is emblem for seal judgements, then the same conflation might mirror.

  • We think: Wow...we are still here. Some are thinking we are going into the tribulation
  • If Rev 12 is seal emblem then when does that baby rapture? At that midpoint? Is that baby rep of church or 2 witnesses? Why does it look like baby goes up and AC goes after Israel like at midpoint? Do seals go to the midpoint?

See, like a lot of questions. But the point I am making is that maybe Rev 12 demonstrates what appears to be splurged together (conflated) and merky clear...just like we experience in wondering like, "At what point we at now family? Are we in trib? Is it soon? What the heck is going on? How much longer? Do we have a gap? Will the church see AC? etc.

Mirror in that sense. If that makes sense. Blessings.
 
What events do you see that have to occur?

I keep a long version response and a shorter response to that question. I think the Bible is pretty clear in the following Scripture:

It appears that the order of things to come is one world gov't will be officially established, followed by 10 kingdoms or Regions w/ governments. After the OWG is established and the 10 regions identified, another king will rise up (the antichrist) after the 10. This one, the antichrist will subdue 3 of the 10 kings in order to firm up dominion over the entire world.

So:

1st: OWG
2nd: Heads (kings) over 10 regions
3rd: antichrist becomes head of the OWG
4th: war to consolidate power over the 10 regions (3 kings subdued)

Daniel 7:23-27

23 ā€œThus he said: ā€˜The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it. 24 As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. 26 But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.ā€™

Now I'm looking in Footsteps of the Messiah because I want to see what Arnold has to say about these verses.

(v. 23) On page 35 he indicates that the fourth kingdom devours (or rules) over the whole earth, something that no previous kingdom has ever achieved. For those previous 3 kingdoms, much of the earth wasn't even known.

(v. 23-24) On page 125-127 He calls the development of the OWG the 5th birth pang leading up to Tribulation. Right now the world is divided up into the western and eastern powers. Arnold expects the eastern powers to collapse, facilitating the move to the OWG. The exact form of government or how it is achieved, isn't known, but it is for sure that it will come to pass. He says the 6th birth pang is the division of the OWG into 10 kingdoms with a ruler for each one. Beginning before Tribulation, the 10 kingdom stage will continue into the middle of Tribulation. Following the division of the world into 10 kingdoms, the antichrist will begin his rise to power. 2 Thes 2:1-3 indicates the antichrist will be revealed at some point after the 10 kingdoms are established. Arnold calls this the 7th birth pang before Tribulation. Because Tribulation begins with the signing of the seven-year covenant between Israel and the antichrist, it is necessary for the antichrist to have sufficient political power to sign such a covenant.

(v. 24) On page 244-245 Arnold seems to indicate that the antichrist's gaining political control over the world could take some time. Rev 17:12-13 is useful to estimate the chronology of when the 3 kings will be put down, and it doesn't appear to be towards the beginning of Tribulation or before Tribulation begins. Arnold says that the antichrist eventually subdues the entire world politically with the exception of Jordan.

It is possible then that the Bride of Christ could see the formation of the OWG in whatever form it ultimately takes, and the division of the world into 10 kingdoms before we are raptured, but the rapture is imminent and can happen anytime between now and prior to the official beginning of Tribulation.
 
I keep a long version response and a shorter response to that question. I think the Bible is pretty clear in the following Scripture:

It appears that the order of things to come is one world gov't will be officially established, followed by 10 kingdoms or Regions w/ governments. After the OWG is established and the 10 regions identified, another king will rise up (the antichrist) after the 10. This one, the antichrist will subdue 3 of the 10 kings in order to firm up dominion over the entire world.

So:

1st: OWG
2nd: Heads (kings) over 10 regions
3rd: antichrist becomes head of the OWG
4th: war to consolidate power over the 10 regions (3 kings subdued)

Daniel 7:23-27

23 ā€œThus he said: ā€˜The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it. 24 As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. 26 But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.ā€™

Now I'm looking in Footsteps of the Messiah because I want to see what Arnold has to say about these verses.

(v. 23) On page 35 he indicates that the fourth kingdom devours (or rules) over the whole earth, something that no previous kingdom has ever achieved. For those previous 3 kingdoms, much of the earth wasn't even known.

(v. 23-24) On page 125-127 He calls the development of the OWG the 5th birth pang leading up to Tribulation. Right now the world is divided up into the western and eastern powers. Arnold expects the eastern powers to collapse, facilitating the move to the OWG. The exact form of government or how it is achieved, isn't known, but it is for sure that it will come to pass. He says the 6th birth pang is the division of the OWG into 10 kingdoms with a ruler for each one. Beginning before Tribulation, the 10 kingdom stage will continue into the middle of Tribulation. Following the division of the world into 10 kingdoms, the antichrist will begin his rise to power. 2 Thes 2:1-3 indicates the antichrist will be revealed at some point after the 10 kingdoms are established. Arnold calls this the 7th birth pang before Tribulation. Because Tribulation begins with the signing of the seven-year covenant between Israel and the antichrist, it is necessary for the antichrist to have sufficient political power to sign such a covenant.

(v. 24) On page 244-245 Arnold seems to indicate that the antichrist's gaining political control over the world could take some time. Rev 17:12-13 is useful to estimate the chronology of when the 3 kings will be put down, and it doesn't appear to be towards the beginning of Tribulation or before Tribulation begins. Arnold says that the antichrist eventually subdues the entire world politically with the exception of Jordan.

It is possible then that the Bride of Christ could see the formation of the OWG in whatever form it ultimately takes, and the division of the world into 10 kingdoms before we are raptured, but the rapture is imminent and can happen anytime between now and prior to the official beginning of Tribulation.

Itā€™s interesting to imagine the Eastern Powers collapsing since they are joining forces and it looks like the Western powers are failing. Makes me wonder about the timing of Ezekiel 38/39.
 
What is Paul teaching us in 1 Thessalonians 5.

Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 5:1 that he does not need to write to the brethren about the times and seasons, as apparently he already taught them that. Notice that Paul did not say the day or the hour as no one knows the specific day or hour. He goes on to say in 1 Thessalonians 5:2 that the Lord will come as a thief in the night, meaning those who are not watching and are asleep will be surprised. However, he says in 1 Thessalonians 5:4 that we Christians are not in darkness and that day will not overtake us as a thief. Then he tells us why we will not be overtaken in 1 Thessalonians 5:5 which is because we are children of the light. Lastly he tells us in 1 Thessalonians 5:6 what we should be doing which is not to sleep and to watch!

1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1 Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1 Thessalonians 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1 Thessalonians 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
1 Thessalonians 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.


Are you sleeping? šŸ¤”

Those who have eyes to see and ears to hear will understand. šŸ˜Š
 
Why would we Christians want to know that the Rapture will happen this year, assuming I am right? šŸ¤”

That is a fair question and the answer is that we will spend more time and energy sharing the Gospel, if we knew the Rapture was this year. Anyone that is honest with themselves knows that is true.

Why should you believe me? šŸ¤”

Another fair question and the answer is you shouldn't. You should search the scriptures, watch the signs and listen to the Holy Spirit and decide for yourself! I am just trying to motivate all Christians to do as 1 Thessalonians 5:6 tells us to do and WATCH!
 
I look forward Jesus every day and hope the Rapture is Today.

No one here disputes we are in the Season or that we ought to be watching.
We are told to watch.
The problem is when we put a day a month or a year and that's our focus, if it passes and it doesn't come as hoped for, that may bring disappointment and even shake someone's faith if they're not anchored in their faith that God is Faithful and the Day God has appointed to send our Bridegroom for us Will Come.
It could happen this year. Maybe not. Regardless, Jesus Will Come.
We are in agreement that Jesus is coming, and soon, by what is obviously evident we can see that's pointing to what Jesus said in the Olivet Discourse that's in reference to His Second Coming.
We're so much closer than ever for the Rapture of the church today than ever before.
We can hope it's this year. Even more, hope it's today šŸ™‚
But there's no need to convince believers that Jesus is near. He is, and we continue to hold fast to our Blessed Hope because "He Who has Promised is Faithful".

ā€œFor yet a little while, And He who is coming will come and will not tarry."
Hebrews 10:37
 
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