I have a question about the revealing of Antichrist

[PaidInFull]

I think what is missing here is brothers and sister are making a different point from what I am making.

When post-tribbers say the pre-trib began with Darby, they have done zero research into early church history. Yet we see in the letters of the church pre-AD 2000, and as I wrote some refer to being in the presence of Peter and John, that we are gong as far back as possible and we see that some did write about the pre-trib rapture and the great tribulation.

Somehow here today, this 2025 possible date for the GT became day and hour rapture date setting in stead of what it is, the one day for 1000 years doctrine.

So instead of having something to rejoice over, or something to consider, the early church fathers are not welcome here. If you go to Bible College, how are you going to study church history with that attitude because these are the men who formed our doctrines in the face of great heresies.

Now regarding the rapture, did Daniel tell us that in the days of the 10 kings the God of heaven will set up His kingdom?

Yes or no?

What does that mean to you?

It won't be before the 10 kings.

It won't be in the days of the beast.

We see in Revelation exactly when it is. It is when the accusations against the church end because the Accuser is cast out of heaven but Woe to all the earth dwellers.

If you have a different view please support it with Scripture because that is how we learn. Push back on topic is welcome.

 

[1LoverofGod]

We're All weary over the increasing evil in this world and are exhausted with our broken bodies and want so much to be with our Lord.
I have concern with the calculations of a year or month or day or event that will begin the Tribulation to use as our knowing the timeframe for our Rapture because many are so weary that they place their hopes in what flawed humans calculate as believers and yet differ in opinion because if they're wrong it can deeply impact their faith.
Are we to believe Jesus didn't mean what He said that no one knows when?
In His ministry did He ever say But in the time of the end you will know when?
Yes, Daniel's prophecy says in the time of the end knowledge would increase, and it has for better understanding of prophecy, but does this include we would knowing when Jesus returns by date?
Scripture tells us we Hope. If you can see it how then is it Hope? Having a set date even by year isn't Hope any longer because we know when to expect it.

 

[1LoverofGod]

I think what is missing here is brothers and sister are making a different point from what I am making.

When post-tribbers say the pre-trib began with Darby, they have done zero research into early church history. Yet we see in the letters of the church pre-AD 2000, and as I wrote some refer to being in the presence of Peter and John, that we are gong as far back as possible and we see that some did write about the pre-trib rapture and the great tribulation.

Somehow here today, this 2025 possible date for the GT became day and hour rapture date setting in stead of what it is, the one day for 1000 years doctrine.

So instead of having something to rejoice over, or something to consider, the early church fathers are not welcome here. If you go to Bible College, how are you going to study church history with that attitude because these are the men who formed our doctrines in the face of great heresies.

Now regarding the rapture, did Daniel tell us that in the days of the 10 kings the God of heaven will set up His kingdom?

Yes or no?

What does that mean to you?

It won't be before the 10 kings.

It won't be in the days of the beast.

We see in Revelation exactly when it is. It is when the accusations against the church end because the Accuser is cast out of heaven but Woe to all the earth dwellers.

If you have a different view please support it with Scripture because that is how we learn. Push back on topic is welcome.

You're still date setting

 

[PaidInFull]

You're still date setting

Give me the date please. Do you mean any day in 2025 as a possibility, not even a probability?

Please give me the date.

What about Adrian - he has it down to one of two days. Is he date setting?

 

[Andy C]

So instead of having something to rejoice over, or something to consider, the early church fathers are not welcome here. If you go to Bible College, how are you going to study church history with that attitude because these are the men who formed our doctrines in the face of great heresies.

IMO, some of your many posts, come off as you stating this is what and why this will happen. Or refer in your posts as to giving a lecture to the forum.

The one day equals a thousand years could be used to get an idea of when the second coming will be, but nowhere in scripture does it plainly state this is so.

I have plenty to rejoice over. I was once lost, then I found the Light, and I know where my future and permanent residence will be. Thats a fact you can bank on!

 

[PaidInFull]

IMO, some of your many posts, come off as you stating this is what and why this will happen. Or refer in your posts as to giving a lecture to the forum.

The one day equals a thousand years could be used to get an idea of when the second coming will be, but nowhere in scripture does it plainly state this is so.

I have plenty to rejoice over. I was once lost, then I found the Light, and I know where my future and permanent residence will be. Thats a fact you can bank on!

The one day as 1000 years has already been discussed in this forum and I have nothing to add to that as I thought it was well covered.

Yes, I have an opinion but I repost I welcome push back. If that seems like a lecture, then lecture back at me so I benefit. Iron is supposed to sharpen iron.

Yes, I state what I think will happen, and yes I post why I think that will happen because thinking is what we all do. The reason I state why I think something will happen is so you understand the logic and have the chance to challenge or discuss that.

If I didn't state my reasoning then i would be dogmatic, and I certainly am not dogmatic for we are all on a journey of learning from one another,

 

[1LoverofGod]

I think what is missing here is brothers and sister are making a different point from what I am making.

When post-tribbers say the pre-trib began with Darby, they have done zero research into early church history. Yet we see in the letters of the church pre-AD 2000, and as I wrote some refer to being in the presence of Peter and John, that we are gong as far back as possible and we see that some did write about the pre-trib rapture and the great tribulation.

Somehow here today, this 2025 possible date for the GT became day and hour rapture date setting in stead of what it is, the one day for 1000 years doctrine.

So instead of having something to rejoice over, or something to consider, the early church fathers are not welcome here. If you go to Bible College, how are you going to study church history with that attitude because these are the men who formed our doctrines in the face of great heresies.

Now regarding the rapture, did Daniel tell us that in the days of the 10 kings the God of heaven will set up His kingdom?

Yes or no?

What does that mean to you?

It won't be before the 10 kings.

It won't be in the days of the beast.

We see in Revelation exactly when it is. It is when the accusations against the church end because the Accuser is cast out of heaven but Woe to all the earth dwellers.

If you have a different view please support it with Scripture because that is how we learn. Push back on topic is welcome.

Initially it appears that you are certain of 2025 being the beginning of the Tribulation based on a letter.
Then you say "possibly 2025".
You then ask if there's a different view to "please support it with scripture", but your basis for 2025 is on a letter.
Let's be fair and please use only scripture to support 2025 based on interpreting scripture with scripture and leave out the letter.
Then I may consider examining the scriptures more closely.

 

[Tall Timbers]

One prophecy teacher says possibly 2024, another says as of 2023 we were in the final four years taking us to 2027
Now we consider 2025. Others have their timing and produce evidence. Who is right?

Only the Father knows at this point.

 

[Tall Timbers]

Perhaps you missed me posting this in another thread. Scripture appears to me to be very clear that the church will indeed be here for the 10 kings but not the Antichrist, and that is why that particular early church father was insisting on it. Let's see why. I am not adding any words to the text here so the [final ten] is as copied...

Your post didn't move me in your direction. I'll stick with my understanding as stated in my previous post. I have discussed this topic numerous times. Here's a link to one thread where it was discussed.

What Will We Face Prior to the Rapture?

We study eschatology with much interest because we want to know what's coming and we want to understand what's happening in the world around us. The remnant of Believers who believe correctly that the Rapture will occur at some point before the antichrist is revealed, the antichrist is revealed...

christiancommunityforum.com

Somehow my post quoting the early church fathers about the possibility of the great tribulation happening in 2025 is being turned into a day and hour for the rapture.

As for the 2025 thing, I guess the early church father isn't identifiable. An Essene perhaps. In any case I consider it hypothetical and extra-Biblical at best. That said, I hope that church father, whoever he or they were is right, but only if our own Goodboy isn't right about 2024 which would be even better.

 

[Tall Timbers]

What about Adrian - he has it down to one of two days. Is he date setting?

I think you're mischaracterizing @mattfivefour's sharing on this just a bit. He can correct me if I'm wrong. I think he believes it could happen on that certain feast day(s) he mentioned, in whatever year it happens, but I think he's open to it happening on any day.

 

[PaidInFull]

I think you're mischaracterizing @mattfivefour's sharing on this just a bit. He can correct me if I'm wrong. I think he believes it could happen on that certain feast day he mentioned, in whatever year it happens, but I think he's open to it happening on any day.

To be exact, Adrian thinks the rapture will happen during the feast of trumpets. I think so too. Which year is a guess. I tend to think it is a few years ahead but I hope I am wrong. I have stated why elsewhere.

The early church 'guessed' that the great trib would begin in 2025. They didn't say it would happen in 2025, as I wrote, it was an educated guess. They didn't date the rapture and the letters were both pre and post-trib. I was referencing pre-trib.

I am interested in how you interpret Daniel writing that in the days of the 10 kings the God of heaven will set up His kingdom. Can you briefly explain please.

I am not trying to move you one way or the other, You stated it was not in Scripture and it seems to be in Scripture from my reading. I could be wrong hence my asking.

 

[Tall Timbers]

I am interested in how you interpret Daniel writing that in the days of the 10 kings the God of heaven will set up His kingdom. Can you briefly explain please.

I am not trying to move you one way or the other, You stated it was not in Scripture and it seems to be in Scripture from my reading. I could be wrong hence my asking.

About everything I could say on the topic is in that thread link I sent you. I don't even understand some of the other things you've included as my brain just can't follow them, so I guess I'll leave that for someone else who might be tracking what you're saying.

 

[mattfivefour]

What about Adrian - he has it down to one of two days. Is he date setting?

But I have never said what year. Nor would I. Personally I am prepared for the Rapture at any time. But I must admit that I do believe it will likely occur on a feast day, for the reasons I recap below. But even though I believe this, it still leaves open the year which could be a long time in the future. And while I have not locked myself into this, I nevertheless think Scripture gives us very real reasons to consider it.

Allow me to elaborate.

While the feasts are exclusively for Israel, we cannot ignore the fact that the Church began on a feast day (Shavuot/Pentecost) and I believe it will end on a feast day (Yom Teruah/Feast of Trumpets). I find it interesting that the four spring feasts were fulfilled in Christ's death, burial, resurrection, and the coming of the Holy Spirit to indwell believers. It is as though the Torah feasts were a spiritual spring that began a crop year in which God would sow and reap the souls of human beings throughout nations, time and the globe. But crop years have an ending. And just as spring begins the main crop year, fall ends it. And I believe the three fall feasts will end the spiritual crop year for mankind.

The first of those fall feasts is Yom Teruah, the Feast of Trumpets. This two-day feast for the Jews is a time of prayer and seeking God, which culminates 10 days later in the second Fall feast: the Day of Atonement, when Jews repent of their sin and seek God and His forgiveness. And five days after that, is the final feast day given by God in His Word-- the Feast of Tabernacles.

If these seven feasts are prophetic, outlining God's dealings with Israel and with humankind in general (and I fully believe --both from God's Word and from His Spirit-- that they are), then the Age of Grace --the growing year if you will, that period in which seeds are planted and crops are raised and harvested, is almost over. God's fields are ripe and the final harvest of this age is underway. It will soon all be over. Glory!!!

But while as Christians we can --and indeed should-- rejoice and say "we're almost home!", as Christians we should be even more focused on saying "time is short! we need to be doing all we can now to complete God's work that He left us, the Church, to do."

And that, my precious brothers and sisters, is the entire point of my teaching and this message.

 

[PaidInFull]

But I have never said what year. Nor would I. Personally I am prepared for the Rapture at any time. But I must admit that I do believe it will likely occur on a feast day, for the reasons I recap below. But even though I believe this, it still leaves open the year which could be a long time in the future. And while I have not locked myself into this, I nevertheless think Scripture gives us very real reasons to consider it.

Allow me to elaborate.

While the feasts are exclusively for Israel, we cannot ignore the fact that the Church began on a feast day (Shavuot/Pentecost) and I believe it will end on a feast day (Yom Teruah/Feast of Trumpets). I find it interesting that the four spring feasts were fulfilled in Christ's death, burial, resurrection, and the coming of the Holy Spirit to indwell believers. It is as though the Torah feasts were a spiritual spring that began a crop year in which God would sow and reap the souls of human beings throughout nations, time and the globe. But crop years have an ending. And just as spring begins the main crop year, fall ends it. And I believe the three fall feasts will end the spiritual crop year for mankind.

The first of those fall feasts is Yom Teruah, the Feast of Trumpets. This two-day feast for the Jews is a time of prayer and seeking God which culminates 10 days later in the second Fall great: the Day of Atonement, when Jess repent of their sin and seek God and His forgiveness. And five days after that, is the final feast day given by God in His Word-- the Feast of Tabernacles.

If these seven feasts are prophetic, outlining God's dealings with Israel and with humankind in general (and I fully believe --both from God's Word and from His Spirit-- that they are), then the Age of Grace --the growing year if you will, that period in which seeds are planted and crops are raised and harvested, is almost over. God's fields are ripe and the final harvest of this age is underway. It will soon all be over. Glory!!!

But while as Christians we can --and indeed should-- rejoice and say "we're almost home!" as Christians we should be even more focused on saying "time is short! we need to be doing all we can now to complete God's work that He left us, the Church, to do."

And that, my precious brothers and sisters, is the entire point of my teaching and this message.

I agree entirely. Jesus said that the groom was delayed. If the barley harvest is not ready, the feast of trumpets has to be delayed by one month. That may be what he referred to.

 

[1LoverofGod]

Maybe the discussion that veered away from my OP should move to a different thread.
I had hoped to have a discussion on what revealed meant in regards to the man of lawlessness and it went to a variety of things not related to my question.
Maybe if a new thread is opened on the other things that have been brought up there may be more discussion on those things there.

To be exact, Adrian thinks the rapture will happen during the feast of trumpets. I think so too. Which year is a guess. I tend to think it is a few years ahead but I hope I am wrong. I have stated why elsewhere.

The early church 'guessed' that the great trib would begin in 2025. They didn't say it would happen in 2025, as I wrote, it was an educated guess. They didn't date the rapture and the letters were both pre and post-trib. I was referencing pre-trib.

I am interested in how you interpret Daniel writing that in the days of the 10 kings the God of heaven will set up His kingdom. Can you briefly explain please.

I am not trying to move you one way or the other, You stated it was not in Scripture and it seems to be in Scripture from my reading. I could be wrong hence my asking.

I'm so glad you said it was "a guess", even an "educated guess" is still a guess.
We don't know the year the Tribulation begins because it was in Matthew 24:36, the time during the Tribulation, Jesus said, "no one knows the day or the hour ".

 

[mattfivefour]

Maybe the discussion that veered away from my OP should move to a different thread.

Good idea. I will see what I can do later this evening when I get home.

 

[PaidInFull]

Your post didn't move me in your direction. I'll stick with my understanding as stated in my previous post. I have discussed this topic numerous times. Here's a link to one thread where it was discussed.

What Will We Face Prior to the Rapture?

We study eschatology with much interest because we want to know what's coming and we want to understand what's happening in the world around us. The remnant of Believers who believe correctly that the Rapture will occur at some point before the antichrist is revealed, the antichrist is revealed...

christiancommunityforum.com

As for the 2025 thing, I guess the early church father isn't identifiable. An Essene perhaps. In any case I consider it hypothetical and extra-Biblical at best. That said, I hope that church father, whoever he or they were is right, but only if our own Goodboy isn't right about 2024 which would be even better.

TT, I checked all your posts and there is no reference to Daniel.2:44.

That was what you commented on here as not being referred to in Scripture. Can you please give me your opinion on why you disagree with me and what your interpretation is?

You say you are sticking to your understanding and I should read your post, but doing so is confusing me as you make no reference to Dan.2 so what is it you are sticking to?

When you wrote...
We know from Scripture that the global govmint and the 10 Kings will precede Tribulation, but nowhere does Scripture even hint that the Church will be here for those things. We might well be, but the Bible doesn't support (unless I've missed it) the idea that the Church will see those things.

Perhaps you did miss it? Perhaps you have an explanation I am missing?

This doesn't seem like a hint to me...
Amplified Bible
In the days of those [final ten] kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will its sovereignty be left for another people; but it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it will stand forever.

The kingdom can't be set up before the 10 kings.

The Antichrist plays a major part in Daniel's prophecy, but he is not mentioned in relation to the kingdom being set up.

It can't be set up after Jesus returns to earth for the 10 kings and the false prophet and the Antichrist are all killed.

So taking it as it reads, it seems to correlate to the announcement of Christ's kingdom and power and salvation in Revelation...

10And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down— he who accuses them day and night before our God. 11They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. And they did not love their lives so as to shy away from death Rev.12.

Your posts that you pointed me to have no reference to this.

This is open to all to chime in here. IF there is another way to read into this, I want to know as it seems straight forward to me so am I missing something?

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

The Antichrist won't be known until the 10 kings are in place. When he does take power, it is over the total population of the earth, not part of the old Roman empire so it seems to me that the 10 kings are 10 regions of the close to the plan in the Treaty of Rome. There you have the Roman aspect, that the world is governed by the Treaty of Rome, but though 10 regional leaders modeled on the EU that has elected representatives under the leadership and control of an unelected president.

In other words, electing your representative is just a sham deception and an example of that is the EU MP's attempting to find out the details of the contract with Pfizer and all they are allowed to see is blacked out redacted pages.

You may not realize the feelings other nations have towards the big bully USA. My closest friend here is Chinese and he often says. We have had to play but the US rule book but when China is the super power it will be payback time and it will be our rule book."

When The Patriot Act was forced on the world after 9-11, a stunning piece of legislation of thousands of pages that somehow they put together in record time almost as if they had it already for the event, forced every nations that wanted to continue to use SWIFT for international payments to submit to surveillance capitalism with all the data going to the USA. This pots an administrative burden on all foreign banks that slows thngs down and adds to costs - everyone hates it and wants out from under the US control.

When the 10 king rise up, one of the biggest hurdles will be DEI. Some nations want their wealth returned in the precious metals, diamonds, through to coffee and sugar the west has plundered from them over the past 200 years and more. The want to be able to buy a Big Mac for the same cost and with the same disposable income as the USA can. DEI is going to become a nightmare for the 10 kings. Rich nations will have to become poor nations relative to the standards they are accustomed to.

While all this chaos is going on there are several wars and one man stands out as a military genius. His forces are small and outnumbered but he keeps winning. When he speaks he makes sense and in a world without any true statesman he will be outstanding. In fact no one in history has the charisma he possesses, the oratory skills in debate, and his fierce face intimidates all who would dare to stare him in the eye.

He will rise to world popularity very quickly and capture the imagination of the whole world. He is also outspoken on his views on religion and his focus is on Jesus Christ and the Bible convincing the world he is the leaders the world needs, not Jesus in heaven. In face he is obsessed with Jesus and heaven and constantly blasphemes Him.

On a wave of euphoria he keeps rising and being brought into the political debate where everyone can see he has all the answers and the willingness to be ruthless to enforce his plan and in war he cannot be beaten.

All of this is ahead of us, but all of the props needed for the order out of chaos mantra is being prepared. There is no point in guessing who he is now for there is no one on the world stage or even in the wings that fits the bill. The early church wrote that the great tribulation would begin in 2025. It was their educated guess and it looks like they won't be far off. The said he will come from the tribe of Dan and his name in Greek will add up to 666. Scripture tells us he will have an intimidating 'fierce face'.

According to Daniel, I believe the church must be here when the 10 kings to rise up for it is in the days of the 10 kings that the God of heaven sets up His kingdom. We may well then see his rising and have an good guess at his identity but we will be gone before he makes the covenant of death with Israel.

As for Marcon, his facial features are too soft, he's not a military genius and he is already a world leader. I'm an old codger but I've give Marcon 1 minute in the octagon with me.

What I focus on is the deceptions that MUST prepare the way for the rising of the 10 kings and also the Antichrist. This is to be with every kind of deception and if I may use the term, every kind of conspiracy theory. The world will buy into the conspiracies, we have to be alert or we ill too and this culminates in the final great delusion that if possible will even deceive the elect of God.

If I am correct, the church will be hated in every nation before the rapture, the challenges will be great, the joy and peace will be even greater for our Hero overcame the world. Paul said he considered the loss of all things as dung compared to the riches in Christ, so what can the world really take from us? In reality, the more they take, the greater the reward!

Maranatha!

French are lovers not fighters, of course you'd have a very good chance against Emmanuel LOL

 

[mattfivefour]

French are lovers not fighters, of course you'd have a very good chance against Emmanuel LOL

Assez, mon vieux! Ça suffit, eh! Pas d'affronts envers les Français, ok? Or zey will send an elite squad of poilus to slap a kangaroo or two. That'll teach you not to mess with la mère patrie.

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

Assez, mon vieux! Ça suffit, eh! Pas d'affronts envers les Français, ok? Or zey will send an elite squad of poilus to slap a kangaroo or two. That'll teach you not to mess with la mère patrie.

I see the Holy spirit has gifted you with the gift of tongues LOL