I have a question about the revealing of Antichrist

[1LoverofGod]

It does seem he would have to have some political clout even before the signing. I do think the OWG is already forming, even gradually, so we may see some or all of it. ...But, will the AC be ruling it before he signs the covenant of Dan. 9:27 ?

It's been my understanding that Seal 1 is the AC's arrival after the Restrainer is removed (2 Thes. 2:6 and Rev. 6) and yet Daniel 9:27 is the signing of the covenant, marking the beginning of the Trib.
Maybe that means the AC is politically active and gaining public recognition but we just won't know it's him. Maybe he is active but remains "a little horn" while the church is here.

I assume it will all play out rather quickly, seamlessly clicking into place, and all this wondering is mostly pointless!

I appreciate your input on my question. When something comes to my mind and I don't quite understand I like to ask other's thoughts to see if something makes sense to answer the question.
Some questions just have no real answers to them I suppose .
No worries. I still won't lose sleep over it.

 

[mattfivefour]

It is true that if things continue on much as they are, it could take quite a while for somebody to come to the position that the Antichrist will hold in people's opinions. But if a major crisis occurs, such a man could rise to the top very, very, VERY quickly. How long did it take for Donald Trump to rise to the top of the political sphere in America? Less than a year.

Sure, he had a position and reputation in the business and financial fields and also the entertainment field. But nobody thought of him as a political leader. Until he ran for office. And then in just 3 years he turned America around while all the while fighting enemies on every front, including in his own party.

Nobody else in government --at least as long as I can remember-- has ever been able to do as much as he did, in such a short period of time, and make as dramatic a change in a nation as he did, against all odds. Yet he did it. So I don't buy into the idea that is going to take quite a while for the AC to develop into the position from where he can actually make global changes. The right conditions of worldwide crisis can make that happen very, very quickly. And I'm suggesting that bthe disappearance of hundreds of millions of Christians around the world --many of them in the key positions in business, finance, military, law and order, and governments-- just might create the necessary crisis.

 

[1LoverofGod]

It is true that if things continue on much as they are, it could take quite a while for somebody to come to the position that the Antichrist will hold in people's opinions. But if a major crisis occurs, such a man could rise to the top very, very, VERY quickly. How long did it take for Donald Trump to rise to the top of the political sphere in America? Less than a year.

Sure, he had a position and reputation in the business and financial fields and also the entertainment field. But nobody thought of him as a political leader. Until he ran for office. And then in just 3 years he turned America around while all the while fighting enemies on every front, including in his own party.

Nobody else in government --at least as long as I can remember-- has ever been able to do as much as he did, in such a short period of time, and make as dramatic a change in a nation as he did, against all odds. Yet he did it. So I don't buy into the idea that is going to take quite a while for the AC to develop into the position from where he can actually make global changes. The right conditions of worldwide crisis can make that happen very, very quickly. And I'm suggesting that bthe disappearance of hundreds of millions of Christians around the world --many of them in the key positions in business, finance, military, law and order, and governments-- just might create the necessary crisis.

What you say does go with Revelation 17:12 says the OWG rule together for one hour, a short time with the Beast. The AC will be part of the OWG to begin with and somehow for some reason he will remove the three leaders that Daniel speaks of in chapter 7v7.
In verse 11 The Beast is said to be but not be, to me indicates that the AC would not have the ultimate world control until the OWG gives power to the Beast. Maybe when he subdues those three kings he shows himself to have the strength to lead the OWG so he's given authority to lead. He will be the peace maker with all the answers in the Middle East and will get the cooperation of many to sign on to the covenant.

Reading Revelation 17:11 it says

"The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition."

Does this elaborate on Daniel 7:7 where the little horn subdues the three kings?

Oh brother I'm getting over my head with this.
Sorry Adrian.

I just find it fascinating how the scriptures complement each other to make a picture clearer.

 

[Anastacia]

What you say does go with Revelation 17:12 says the OWG rule together for one hour, a short time with the Beast. The AC will be part of the OWG to begin with and somehow for some reason he will remove the three leaders that Daniel speaks of in chapter 7v7.
In verse 11 The Beast is said to be but not be, to me indicates that the AC would not have the ultimate world control until the OWG gives power to the Beast. Maybe when he subdues those three kings he shows himself to have the strength to lead the OWG so he's given authority to lead. He will be the peace maker with all the answers in the Middle East and will get the cooperation of many to sign on to the covenant.

Reading Revelation 17:11 it says

"The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition."

Does this elaborate on Daniel 7:7 where the little horn subdues the three kings?

Oh brother I'm getting over my head with this.
Sorry Adrian.

I just find it fascinating how the scriptures complement each other to make a picture clearer.

Rev. 17:11
The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven...
I had learned that this is a reference to the ancient Roman empire (the beast that was) but currently "is not" [ruling] but will also be the eighth (the Revived Roman Empire = AC's headquarters for the OWG). The previous seven empires were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome... and the eighth will be the Revived Roman Empire.

Just what I learned but I'm sure there's other interpretations.

 

[1LoverofGod]

Rev. 17:11
The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven...
I had learned that this is a reference to the ancient Roman empire (the beast that was) but currently "is not" [ruling] but will also be the eighth (the Revived Roman Empire = AC's headquarters for the OWG). The previous seven empires were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome... and the eighth will be the Revived Roman Empire.

Just what I learned but I'm sure there's other interpretations.

That is an interesting perspective. I guess the reason I saw it as kings rather than empires is how the when Revelation refers to the Beast it's depicting Antichrist. In reading how verse 11 ends when referring to the Beast as "himself", a person, and then it says he's"going to perdition".
There's only two persons in Scripture referred to as son's of perdition, Judas Escariot and the Antichrist.

Here Jesus is praying and mentions Judas as son of perdition:

"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled."
John 17:12

Here the man of sin, Antichrist, is called son of perdition:

"Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,"
2 Thessalonians 2:3

So these points are what led to my conclusions.

 

[1LoverofGod]

Okay mattfivefour why the hmmmmm?
I would love to know what's on your mind.
My perspective doesn't mean it's so, I took the scripture phrases and remembered where other verses mentioned similar phrases and I came to my conclusion. I don't feel bad if anyone sees it differently.
I'd love to see other's thoughts.
I didn't disagree with Anastacias post, I found it interesting. I just said why I had a different perspective by connecting scripture with scripture.

 

[mattfivefour]

Okay mattfivefour why the hmmmmm?
I would love to know what's on your mind.
My perspective doesn't mean it's so, I took the scripture phrases and remembered where other verses mentioned similar phrases and I came to my conclusion. I don't feel bad if anyone sees it differently.
I'd love to see other's thoughts.
I didn't disagree with Anastacias post, I found it interesting. I just said why I had a different perspective by connecting scripture with scripture.

My hmm is that you have made me think. And that's a good thing. I haven't worked through to a conclusion yet, but you have given me something to think about that I hadn't before considered in the same way.

 

[1LoverofGod]

My hmm is that you have made me think. And that's a good thing. I haven't worked through to a conclusion yet, but you have given me something to think about that I hadn't before considered in the same way.

I try to understand the Bible by comparing Scripture passages and meditate on the context around them and if it appears to have a connection that's how I understand. I have a pretty good memory so I go fishing for the scriptures that I think may help me with a different one that I am wanting clarity on.
Long time ago the first time I heard someone say that scripture interprets scripture I tried to remember that when I am trying to get the meaning of a verse that I don't quite have clear.
I could have it wrong, but that's how I do my studying of scripture and Bible topics. But I am always open to other's thoughts that may change my mind.

 

[Anastacia]

I'm sure I learned that interpretation of Rev. 17:11 from Andy Woods because I really struggled with that exact verse since it sounds like a riddle! I researched Woods, Fruchtenbaum, and Mark Hitchcock to see their understanding of it since there's no way I'd ever figure it out in my own!

...I think King and kingdom can be interchangeable, so maybe the Beast (AC) represents his kingdom just as the kingdom represents the Beast.

Like @1LoverofGod, I've also learned only the AC and Judas Iscariot are called the sons of perdition (since they were/will be indwelt/possessed by Satan).

I'm interestedhow others understand these things and will continue to read this thread.

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

I'm sure I learned that interpretation of Rev. 17:11 from Andy Woods because I really struggled with that exact verse since it sounds like a riddle! I researched Woods, Fruchtenbaum, and Mark Hitchcock to see their understanding of it since there's no way I'd ever figure it out in my own!

...I think King and kingdom can be interchangeable, so maybe the Beast (AC) represents his kingdom just as the kingdom represents the Beast.

Like @1LoverofGod, I've also learned only the AC and Judas Iscariot are called the sons of perdition (since they were/will be indwelt/possessed by Satan).

I'm interestedhow others understand these things and will continue to read this thread.

LOL the craziest conspiracy theory i've heard that Judas Iscariot comes back as antichrist , that took the cake for me

 

[1LoverofGod]

When we read the context of both verses 11&12 it makes it clear the difference between the OWG Fourth Beast and The Beast Antichrist.

11 "The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.

12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast"
Revelation 17:11-12

As already pointed out verse 11 refers to The Beast as a person since it says "himself" who was also the eighth but of the seven. Going to Daniel 7:7-8 it reads:

“After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8 I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words."

Verse seven specifically describes the OWG made up of ten kings.
Verse eight describes the little horn who represents Antichrist and here it says he will rise up from among them and pluck out three horns, or Kings. This is how I came to understand Revelation 17:11 that the Beast is himself the eighth but of the seven.
It makes sense tying it to Daniel 7:8 when the three horns are plucked out of the Ten, leaving seven , but because there are seven the Beast makes it eight.
Then in examining Revelation 17:12 it is separating the OWG, or the Fourth Beast by identifying it as Ten Kings, but continuing to read it tells us that the Ten Kings receive authority for one hour with the Beast. Notice the separation here? It does describe the fourth Beast as the ten king OWG but it also tells us that it has authority with the Beast, the little horn of Daniel 7:8 , the one who is Antichrist.

Whew! That made my brain hurt to try to explain.
Does it make sense how I explained it?

 

[1LoverofGod]

LOL the craziest conspiracy theory i've heard that Judas Iscariot comes back as antichrist , that took the cake for me

That's funny. I've heard Antichrist is the reincarnated Nimrod or a Nephalim as well.

 

[PaidInFull]

We are already experiencing dozens and dozens of deceptions in "the coming of the man of sin" that the elite celebrate with their show pieces in major events and every day in the music and movie industry. Our political representatives are bought and paid for pawns who carry out the will of those who rule them. In the Wikileaks, H Clinton was begging Rothschild for forgiveness for screwing up on some matter. Did you see how Rothschild spoke to Prince Charles poking him in the chest? No one can poke the royals, except a higher order.

Many bills in Congress are thousands of pages long and are handed to our representatives just hours before the vote. Sometimes they are even sealed. The motto is you have to vote to see what is in the bill. It's a charade.

They add sub clauses that have nothing to do with the bill and so they become law but the MSM won't tell us about this.

EU MP's have asked to see what is in the contract between the governments and Big Pharma and when they received the contract it was all blacked out.

<mod edit>

The WEF boast they have 5000 leaders ready to take over the governments and they have infiltrated many with 190 planned to lead the world government.

INFILTRATED! Klaus said it! And the world leaders pander to his ego and come to these great gatherings and the sheeple think we have democracy. The plan is in the open, that we are to be ruled and democracy is as dead as transparency.

They killed capitalism with Bill FASAB 56 making all figures a matter of national security and in that bill they can lie about the figures for the same reason - security. You see, you need to be protected. How did that bill come about? When Prof Skidmore pestered them as to why they were secretly printing trillions of dollars but hiding the true figures of the national debt. The US is buried in $150 trillion of debt that has already been printed but the MSM quotes $34 Trillion.

Next they will enforce misinformation laws and this is already happening, and they are to be retrospective so everything you have ever posted will make you guilty.

The world is undergoing social engineering in 50 different plans, all merging into one with the goal of it all being handed to one man. They expect him soon. They want him.

Why?

Because they believe with all their hearts Lucifer is the equal of God and he is the protector of this planet and keeps God at bay. Pope Francis is Luciferian and he speaks in dark sentences. He quotes the great invocation occult prayer for 'all people of goodwill' and of course we all want to be in that group, don't we? That is until we understand what it means, diversity, equity and inclusion and putting LGBTQ++ staff in our churches and gender bending the minds of our kids.

Pope Francis said that Jesus didn't rise bodily, that He failed at the cross, that Jesus needed forgiveness...all the confessions of a Luciferian. He stands in a building that is designed to look like a serpent and says it is God's will to have multiple religions.

And the church is silent.

I could go on and on about the thousands of NGO's that are indeed government organizations, but are there for plausible deniability by the government because they are supposed to represent grass roots opinions. The reality is they are funded by the great merchants of earth or governments and designed to create grass root opinions that the government must respond to.

They think they will rule the world and indeed they will, for the church and restrainer will be removed and God will let them perish under the hatred of one they love, the destroyer of worlds who deceives the nations.

God has a different plan before they achieve one world government - chaos and 10 kings that can't agree. Now the elite's motto is Order Out Of Chaos, but they won't get what they want.

I believe we will see the 10 kings and then the rapture, but not the Antichrist confirming the covenant, probably the Oslo Agreement that divides the land and makes it impossible for Israel to defend herself, for at the narrowest point Israel would only be 7 mines wide. Israel will have to place her future security in the covenant of death for protection instead of in God.

The rising of the Antichrist little horn will see a great orator who speaks in occult dark sentences. A man of fierce face who is a military genius and his political genius and military genius will see him suddenly rise to fame and wonderment. It will happen quickly. The early church pre AD 200 wrote he will come from the tribe of Dan and his name in Greek will add up to 666.

I believe we will see his rising and it will be unmistakable, as unmistakable as the increase of knowledge in the seal of Daniel is now. Right now we see the time of his 'coming' with every kind of deception. Next comes his rising, a little horn that comes out of the 10 kings. Thus for the moment and until the 10 kings arise, he is hidden and IMO there are no candidates that matches his fierce face, brilliant oratory and military genius that spellbinds the nations of the world.

We need to know these things because it is part of our witness, God's last plea to the world. God does not want the world to perish and say to Him, Why didn't You warn us?

He devoted one whole book in the Bible to everything that is to happen. He even gives a special blessing to anyone who will read it.

Now it is up to us to warn the world.

Maranatha.

 

[1LoverofGod]

We are already experiencing dozens and dozens of deceptions in "the coming of the man of sin" that the elite celebrate with their show pieces in major events and every day in the music and movie industry. Our political representatives are bought and paid for pawns who carry out the will of those who rule them. In the Wikileaks, H Clinton was begging Rothschild for forgiveness for screwing up on some matter. Did you see how Rothschild spoke to Prince Charles poking him in the chest? No one can poke the royals, except a higher order.

Many bills in Congress are thousands of pages long and are handed to our representatives just hours before the vote. Sometimes they are even sealed. The motto is you have to vote to see what is in the bill. It's a charade.

They add sub clauses that have nothing to do with the bill and so they become law but the MSM won't tell us about this.

EU MP's have asked to see what is in the contract between the governments and Big Pharma and when they received the contract it was all blacked out.

The WEF boast they have 5000 leaders ready to take over the governments and they have infiltrated many with 190 planned to lead the world government.

INFILTRATED! Klaus said it! And the world leaders pander to his ego and come to these great gatherings and the sheeple think we have democracy. The plan is in the open, that we are to be ruled and democracy is as dead as transparency.

They killed capitalism with Bill FASAB 56 making all figures a matter of national security and in that bill they can lie about the figures for the same reason - security. You see, you need to be protected. How did that bill come about? When Prof Skidmore pestered them as to why they were secretly printing trillions of dollars but hiding the true figures of the national debt. The US is buried in $150 trillion of debt that has already been printed but the MSM quotes $34 Trillion.

Next they will enforce misinformation laws and this is already happening, and they are to be retrospective so everything you have ever posted will make you guilty.

The world is undergoing social engineering in 50 different plans, all merging into one with the goal of it all being handed to one man. They expect him soon. They want him.

Why?

Because they believe with all their hearts Lucifer is the equal of God and he is the protector of this planet and keeps God at bay. Pope Francis is Luciferian and he speaks in dark sentences. He quotes the great invocation occult prayer for 'all people of goodwill' and of course we all want to be in that group, don't we? That is until we understand what it means, diversity, equity and inclusion and putting LGBTQ++ staff in our churches and gender bending the minds of our kids.

Pope Francis said that Jesus didn't rise bodily, that He failed at the cross, that Jesus needed forgiveness...all the confessions of a Luciferian. He stands in a building that is designed to look like a serpent and says it is God's will to have multiple religions.

And the church is silent.

I could go on and on about the thousands of NGO's that are indeed government organizations, but are there for plausible deniability by the government because they are supposed to represent grass roots opinions. The reality is they are funded by the great merchants of earth or governments and designed to create grass root opinions that the government must respond to.

They think they will rule the world and indeed they will, for the church and restrainer will be removed and God will let them perish under the hatred of one they love, the destroyer of worlds who deceives the nations.

God has a different plan before they achieve one world government - chaos and 10 kings that can't agree. Now the elite's motto is Order Out Of Chaos, but they won't get what they want.

I believe we will see the 10 kings and then the rapture, but not the Antichrist confirming the covenant, probably the Oslo Agreement that divides the land and makes it impossible for Israel to defend herself, for at the narrowest point Israel would only be 7 mines wide. Israel will have to place her future security in the covenant of death for protection instead of in God.

The rising of the Antichrist little horn will see a great orator who speaks in occult dark sentences. A man of fierce face who is a military genius and his political genius and military genius will see him suddenly rise to fame and wonderment. It will happen quickly. The early church pre AD 200 wrote he will come from the tribe of Dan and his name in Greek will add up to 666.

I believe we will see his rising and it will be unmistakable, as unmistakable as the increase of knowledge in the seal of Daniel is now. Right now we see the time of his 'coming' with every kind of deception. Next comes his rising, a little horn that comes out of the 10 kings. Thus for the moment and until the 10 kings arise, he is hidden and IMO there are no candidates that matches his fierce face, brilliant oratory and military genius that spellbinds the nations of the world.

We need to know these things because it is part of our witness, God's last plea to the world. God does not want the world to perish and say to Him, Why didn't You warn us?

He devoted one whole book in the Bible to everything that is to happen. He even gives a special blessing to anyone who will read it.

Now it is up to us to warn the world.

Maranatha.

I concur with you. I would say that like 90% of what you said I am familiar with.
I know about the Luciferin agenda and the elite cabal and it goes back at least a hundred years that the planning has been going on.
America has been in the way with our unique constitution for the New World Order to get in place and is why those in power have worked overtime to destroy it from within. That's not all. They have to remove anything that is of The God of The Bible, and Judeo Christian influence.
You're correct. It's possible we could see the OWG be implemented. If we see Antichrist I'm not certain we would know who he is.
Certainly I don't believe we'll see the confirming of the covenant.
But no doubt the world is moving quickly towards the Beast system.
The technology is already here for Revelation 13. All that's needed is to have the global connection to one digital system that connects everything in one system.
The mark of the Beast is likely already in "blueprint". They likely have what will be used for that mark.
I found a while ago that when a new technology is released to the public, it's new for us but it's already been made for years ahead.
Anyway. Thank you for your comment.

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

We are already experiencing dozens and dozens of deceptions in "the coming of the man of sin" that the elite celebrate with their show pieces in major events and every day in the music and movie industry. Our political representatives are bought and paid for pawns who carry out the will of those who rule them. In the Wikileaks, H Clinton was begging Rothschild for forgiveness for screwing up on some matter. Did you see how Rothschild spoke to Prince Charles poking him in the chest? No one can poke the royals, except a higher order.

Many bills in Congress are thousands of pages long and are handed to our representatives just hours before the vote. Sometimes they are even sealed. The motto is you have to vote to see what is in the bill. It's a charade.

They add sub clauses that have nothing to do with the bill and so they become law but the MSM won't tell us about this.

EU MP's have asked to see what is in the contract between the governments and Big Pharma and when they received the contract it was all blacked out.

The WEF boast they have 5000 leaders ready to take over the governments and they have infiltrated many with 190 planned to lead the world government.

INFILTRATED! Klaus said it! And the world leaders pander to his ego and come to these great gatherings and the sheeple think we have democracy. The plan is in the open, that we are to be ruled and democracy is as dead as transparency.

They killed capitalism with Bill FASAB 56 making all figures a matter of national security and in that bill they can lie about the figures for the same reason - security. You see, you need to be protected. How did that bill come about? When Prof Skidmore pestered them as to why they were secretly printing trillions of dollars but hiding the true figures of the national debt. The US is buried in $150 trillion of debt that has already been printed but the MSM quotes $34 Trillion.

Next they will enforce misinformation laws and this is already happening, and they are to be retrospective so everything you have ever posted will make you guilty.

The world is undergoing social engineering in 50 different plans, all merging into one with the goal of it all being handed to one man. They expect him soon. They want him.

Why?

Because they believe with all their hearts Lucifer is the equal of God and he is the protector of this planet and keeps God at bay. Pope Francis is Luciferian and he speaks in dark sentences. He quotes the great invocation occult prayer for 'all people of goodwill' and of course we all want to be in that group, don't we? That is until we understand what it means, diversity, equity and inclusion and putting LGBTQ++ staff in our churches and gender bending the minds of our kids.

Pope Francis said that Jesus didn't rise bodily, that He failed at the cross, that Jesus needed forgiveness...all the confessions of a Luciferian. He stands in a building that is designed to look like a serpent and says it is God's will to have multiple religions.

And the church is silent.

I could go on and on about the thousands of NGO's that are indeed government organizations, but are there for plausible deniability by the government because they are supposed to represent grass roots opinions. The reality is they are funded by the great merchants of earth or governments and designed to create grass root opinions that the government must respond to.

They think they will rule the world and indeed they will, for the church and restrainer will be removed and God will let them perish under the hatred of one they love, the destroyer of worlds who deceives the nations.

God has a different plan before they achieve one world government - chaos and 10 kings that can't agree. Now the elite's motto is Order Out Of Chaos, but they won't get what they want.

I believe we will see the 10 kings and then the rapture, but not the Antichrist confirming the covenant, probably the Oslo Agreement that divides the land and makes it impossible for Israel to defend herself, for at the narrowest point Israel would only be 7 mines wide. Israel will have to place her future security in the covenant of death for protection instead of in God.

The rising of the Antichrist little horn will see a great orator who speaks in occult dark sentences. A man of fierce face who is a military genius and his political genius and military genius will see him suddenly rise to fame and wonderment. It will happen quickly. The early church pre AD 200 wrote he will come from the tribe of Dan and his name in Greek will add up to 666.

I believe we will see his rising and it will be unmistakable, as unmistakable as the increase of knowledge in the seal of Daniel is now. Right now we see the time of his 'coming' with every kind of deception. Next comes his rising, a little horn that comes out of the 10 kings. Thus for the moment and until the 10 kings arise, he is hidden and IMO there are no candidates that matches his fierce face, brilliant oratory and military genius that spellbinds the nations of the world.

We need to know these things because it is part of our witness, God's last plea to the world. God does not want the world to perish and say to Him, Why didn't You warn us?

He devoted one whole book in the Bible to everything that is to happen. He even gives a special blessing to anyone who will read it.

Now it is up to us to warn the world.

Maranatha.

Emmanuel Macron is trying as hard as he can

 

[Anastacia]

When we read the context of both verses 11&12 it makes it clear the difference between the OWG Fourth Beast and The Beast Antichrist.

11 "The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.

12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast"
Revelation 17:11-12

As already pointed out verse 11 refers to The Beast as a person since it says "himself" who was also the eighth but of the seven. Going to Daniel 7:7-8 it reads:

“After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8 I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words."

Verse seven specifically describes the OWG made up of ten kings.
Verse eight describes the little horn who represents Antichrist and here it says he will rise up from among them and pluck out three horns, or Kings. This is how I came to understand Revelation 17:11 that the Beast is himself the eighth but of the seven.
It makes sense tying it to Daniel 7:8 when the three horns are plucked out of the Ten, leaving seven , but because there are seven the Beast makes it eight.
Then in examining Revelation 17:12 it is separating the OWG, or the Fourth Beast by identifying it as Ten Kings, but continuing to read it tells us that the Ten Kings receive authority for one hour with the Beast. Notice the separation here? It does describe the fourth Beast as the ten king OWG but it also tells us that it has authority with the Beast, the little horn of Daniel 7:8 , the one who is Antichrist.

Whew! That made my brain hurt to try to explain.
Does it make sense how I explained it?

I don't think I have a different view than what you say upthread; maybe it's just a matter of splitting different hairs. I took a shot explaining what I've learned about Rev 17:11. Then with all you brought up, I considered that perhaps king/kingdom could be used interchangably since I think it is clearly referring to the AC and his final kingdom... yet also referring to the 7 kingdoms of Daniel and the little horn as the AC whose kingdom will be the 8th.
All very interesting to sort out so I hope I did not confuse the matter by not explaining well. Check out Andy Woods' Revelation series on chapter 17 since he really clarifies it better than I ever could!

 

[1LoverofGod]

Emmanuel Macron is trying as hard as he can

Yeah. I've read what some people have pointed out as to him being a candidate.
The Time magazine with him walking on water. His having Assyrian ancestry. His being atheist and his active efforts to resolve the conflicts between Israel and the Middle East. I don't think at the point all of this was pointed out a few years back it wouldn't have been so obvious that he would be The Antichrist.
Could be but then maybe not. Just like Nero and Hitler was thought to be there will be many antichrist.
But Macron is auditioning well for sure.

 

[Goodboy]

It is true that if things continue on much as they are, it could take quite a while for somebody to come to the position that the Antichrist will hold in people's opinions. But if a major crisis occurs, such a man could rise to the top very, very, VERY quickly. How long did it take for Donald Trump to rise to the top of the political sphere in America? Less than a year.

I completely agree with what MattFiveFour posted.

Not only that, I believe the Antichrist already is in a powerful position, we just don't know who he is yet.

 

[1LoverofGod]

I don't think I have a different view than what you say upthread; maybe it's just a matter of splitting different hairs. I took a shot explaining what I've learned about Rev 17:11. Then with all you brought up, I considered that perhaps king/kingdom could be used interchangably since I think it is clearly referring to the AC and his final kingdom... yet also referring to the 7 kingdoms of Daniel and the little horn as the AC whose kingdom will be the 8th.
All very interesting to sort out so I hope I did not confuse the matter by not explaining well. Check out Andy Woods' Revelation series on chapter 17 since he really clarifies it better than I ever could!

What you are saying pretty much aligns with what I mean to explain with the exception of the Revelation 17:11 being 8 kingdoms.
I just simply go by Daniel's vision of the Four Beasts and in Revelation 17:11 it describes the Fourth Beast made up of Ten Kings ruling from the Fourth Beast Kingdom.
I know there's differences in interpretation by a variety of Eschatology Theologians and I have respect for them for their education and in-depth studying. I'm no theologian but all I do is allow for one scripture to clarify another that's connected to the prophecy. I like something Andy Woods has said that's humorous. He says that the I hour of silence in heaven is going to be when the Prophecy teachers find out who was wrong
I appreciate your input. It does make me think.

 

[PaidInFull]

The Antichrist won't be known until the 10 kings are in place. When he does take power, it is over the total population of the earth, not part of the old Roman empire so it seems to me that the 10 kings are 10 regions of the close to the plan in the Treaty of Rome. There you have the Roman aspect, that the world is governed by the Treaty of Rome, but though 10 regional leaders modeled on the EU that has elected representatives under the leadership and control of an unelected president.

In other words, electing your representative is just a sham deception and an example of that is the EU MP's attempting to find out the details of the contract with Pfizer and all they are allowed to see is blacked out redacted pages.

You may not realize the feelings other nations have towards the big bully USA. My closest friend here is Chinese and he often says. We have had to play but the US rule book but when China is the super power it will be payback time and it will be our rule book."

When The Patriot Act was forced on the world after 9-11, a stunning piece of legislation of thousands of pages that somehow they put together in record time almost as if they had it already for the event, forced every nations that wanted to continue to use SWIFT for international payments to submit to surveillance capitalism with all the data going to the USA. This pots an administrative burden on all foreign banks that slows thngs down and adds to costs - everyone hates it and wants out from under the US control.

When the 10 king rise up, one of the biggest hurdles will be DEI. Some nations want their wealth returned in the precious metals, diamonds, through to coffee and sugar the west has plundered from them over the past 200 years and more. The want to be able to buy a Big Mac for the same cost and with the same disposable income as the USA can. DEI is going to become a nightmare for the 10 kings. Rich nations will have to become poor nations relative to the standards they are accustomed to.

While all this chaos is going on there are several wars and one man stands out as a military genius. His forces are small and outnumbered but he keeps winning. When he speaks he makes sense and in a world without any true statesman he will be outstanding. In fact no one in history has the charisma he possesses, the oratory skills in debate, and his fierce face intimidates all who would dare to stare him in the eye.

He will rise to world popularity very quickly and capture the imagination of the whole world. He is also outspoken on his views on religion and his focus is on Jesus Christ and the Bible convincing the world he is the leaders the world needs, not Jesus in heaven. In face he is obsessed with Jesus and heaven and constantly blasphemes Him.

On a wave of euphoria he keeps rising and being brought into the political debate where everyone can see he has all the answers and the willingness to be ruthless to enforce his plan and in war he cannot be beaten.

All of this is ahead of us, but all of the props needed for the order out of chaos mantra is being prepared. There is no point in guessing who he is now for there is no one on the world stage or even in the wings that fits the bill. The early church wrote that the great tribulation would begin in 2025. It was their educated guess and it looks like they won't be far off. The said he will come from the tribe of Dan and his name in Greek will add up to 666. Scripture tells us he will have an intimidating 'fierce face'.

According to Daniel, I believe the church must be here when the 10 kings to rise up for it is in the days of the 10 kings that the God of heaven sets up His kingdom. We may well then see his rising and have an good guess at his identity but we will be gone before he makes the covenant of death with Israel.

As for Marcon, his facial features are too soft, he's not a military genius and he is already a world leader. I'm an old codger but I've give Marcon 1 minute in the octagon with me.

What I focus on is the deceptions that MUST prepare the way for the rising of the 10 kings and also the Antichrist. This is to be with every kind of deception and if I may use the term, every kind of conspiracy theory. The world will buy into the conspiracies, we have to be alert or we ill too and this culminates in the final great delusion that if possible will even deceive the elect of God.

If I am correct, the church will be hated in every nation before the rapture, the challenges will be great, the joy and peace will be even greater for our Hero overcame the world. Paul said he considered the loss of all things as dung compared to the riches in Christ, so what can the world really take from us? In reality, the more they take, the greater the reward!

Maranatha!