Is President Trump the Antichrist?

[TCC]

"reveal" isnt the same as "exist." i do know what youre saying, not much else lol, but thats my response. the ac can well exist before its revealed.

Yes I agree. That would have to be true. On this topic here though I lefts an earlier post with reference to 2 Thes 2 in the Greek. And as far as I am aware, the way it seems to read in the Greek is that: Apostacy & Man Of Lawlessness Reveal could be what is "FIRST" before the day of the Lord. LIkely it goes in that order: Apostasy then Reveal. For me I see 2 Thes 2 talking about the midpoint and not the transition from age of grace to tribulation. So in that sense the apostasy would be seal 5 + all or most of the trumpets timeframe. I would see only bowls exist in the entire second half of the tribulation. If so, then there is an apostsy during the first half of the trib when the AC is revealed by demanding worship. In that sense it probably seems I am reading from an entirely different Bible...lol. But there is a range within orthodoxy.

But yeah still like if anyone has some Greek detail on that language, it might be kind of interesting to see if in the Greek Apostacy & Man Of Lawlessness Revealed could be grammatically at the same time (simultanious...for the sake of argument). Or at least not the focus of distinction. Whereas what would be more likely in focus is that even the antichrist has to be revealed before the Day of the Lord the Thesselonian church had concern of being in. So yeah, if anyone has input on that, this would be a great spot for it Blessings.

 

[dwb]

Well, he was wounded in the head and recovered.

 

[Tall Timbers]

Well, he was wounded in the head and recovered.

Some would say it was a very fast recovery, the best recovery ever!

 

[1LoverofGod]

Well, he was wounded in the head and recovered.

That is funny
But Trump's wound doesnt fit scripture.
The wound on AC has to kill him and then comes back to life and amazes everyone.
Trump got his ear grazed by the bullet.
Thus, his wound doesnt prove he is the AC


And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed
Rev. 13:3

 

[TCC]

That is funny
But Trump's wound doesnt fit scripture.
The wound on AC has to kill him and then comes back to life and amazes everyone.
Trump got his ear grazed by the bullet.
Thus, his wound doesnt prove he is the AC


And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed
Rev. 13:3

I agree. Even though Trump, as TT points out, would have us know whatever pertains to him is the epitome of the meaning of anything, and even though Trump might even compare a grazed ear as Trump coming back from the dead, at the end of the day I think Trump would opt out of being thought of as the AC. Blessings.

 

[Andy C]

He did say “I believe Trump is the AC”. That is a definitive statement.

IMO, trolling or clickbait was the intent of the OP.

I still stand by this post.

Charles W only post was this one, and has not been back on the forum since.

Trolling for a response, stirring the pot, on what he knew was a Christian site, and conservative.

 

[TCC]

Although I agree Andy that it is not a good practice to just throw something out there and not stand by it nor interact within it is a bad practice, I would see trolling as something much closer to those that stay the course. Like in my case, for example. With my differing views, I need to keep in mind that even though I have strong views in diverse ways, and I am willing to engage with them, the end result could become trolling if my views on something overrides common community care toward others as well as what is reasonably understood to be a general good communication value according to the general views of the forum. Since some of my views are far enough out there, its somewhat of a safety margin for me to well understand the danger of influencing others or win converts is not likely to occur at all, lol.

But to post like Charles did, to me, seems more like a move to see if this is a place where Charles can feel to relate or if others might relate to him. Being new, I suppose one way to tell how the forum attitude might be according to his strongly held views (instead of getting a sense about the forum by reading many posts for a week or two) is to post something controversial and see how a forum reacts. And then determine from there if that is a place one might feel comfortable to fellowship in. I agree brother it seems a bit shallow to post like Charles did and never reply again (having such a big claim and being aware of its controversial nature). But it could be for one to test the waters to see if they feel comfortable enough to proceed. Like testing to see if one's views might survive. It would seem Charles not feel it would and probably went with a forum where they might agree more. I suppose there are those out there.

Since we only have one post from Charles, it is hard to say if it is just something he posts in a thousand places to hope to influence without care much to fellowship, or if it is just a way to see if it makes sense for a person to stay and post over time. Its impossible to know. What can be known from his post though is that his views on the subject matter seem to be views from him being influenced at a very shallow level. Possibly a somewhat immature believer? So I think the most concerning part of the post is that believers might be seeking a seat in heaven. This approach to salvation sounds quasi-Catholic. Salvation does not depend on how we view Trump, but Christ. And his reasons for playing it safe, that how he views Trump might cost him salvation does seem to not be as familiar with scripture as he could be at the point of making such a claim. Having said that though, he does seem to have a genuine concern that somehow Trump can remove Him from salvation. So its like in that sense, my takeaway would be more along the lines that this person is either new to the faith recently or has not found a church to mature much in. Which is somewhat of a pandemic for our day, unfortunately. On that note, I suppose it could be considered a more concerning position than one to troll. But one to secure a seat in heaven by warning people that Trump might be the antichrist. Seen in this light, it suggests an immaturity perhaps more than a troll mode, IMHO. But even so, if a forum has the virtue of "Please don't appear to troll," that, of course, is not be a bad thing. That I would totally agree with brother. Hope that makes sense too. Blessings.

 

[mattfivefour]

As far as the AC and revealing, If we look at the Greek structure of 2 Thes 2, we notice that it seems to convey the following:

a) The apostasy first
b) and shall have been revealed the man of lawlessness

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Interlinear: let not any one deceive you in any manner, because -- if the falling away may not come first, and the man of sin be revealed -- the son of the destruction,
Typically the way we read that is the rapture first then the reveal. But in Greek (I don't do Greek so if someone knows, please help) it seems to convey:

* apostasy first & lawless man revealed

Almost is if they are clumped together. First, being a primary element of "hey this has to go on first." Like there has to be an apostasy + the man of lawlessness having been revealed before we see the Day of the Lord. In that sense, the "first" seems to point to the sequence of those two events together. Like, First a) apostasy & b) man of lawlessness be revealed -- they both have to happen first before the Day of the Lord. That is how when looking at the Greek construct it seems to me.

If so, then it is not clear if the man being revealed has to come after the rapture or apostasy? Am I wrong? Anybody? lol.

I'm finally getting around to this. The Greek literally says: "No one you should let deceive in any way because if not shall have come the apostasy first and shall have been revealed the man of the lawlessness, the son of the destruction." This Greek syntax is very hard to understand in English, therefore we have to convert it into proper English syntax. Thus, if the thought were written in English, it would read "No one should deceive you in any way, because it is not until the apostasy shall have come first, and the man of lawlessness shall have been revealed--the son of destruction." When seen in this way, it is clear that Paul was not necessarily giving an order of events. It could, if course, be understood in that way-- in other words the apostasy/falling away/rebellion comes first and then the man of lawlessness is revealed (followed, as per vv 1-2, by the coming of Jesus Christ for us.) But it could equally be seen as the events are more or less contemporaneous-- in other words the apostasty/falling away/rebellion and the revealing of the man of lawlessness both come first, before the Day of the Lord Jesus Christ comes. Therefore, based on this Scripture, it is possible we could see the revealing of the antichrist before we go. It is a possibility. Regardless, the God who keeps us will keep us, and we have His promise that we will not undergo His wrath, which is the Great Tribulation.

 

[KMendel]

I remember back in the late 60's or early 70's when some woman - a well-known psychic at the time - stated that the person who
would be antichrist was born in 1962. Sorry I can't remember her name, but I put no real importance on what she was saying. That
would make him 63 now, if true. I always pictured the person who would be the ac to be fairly young, virile, with a great personality to
woo all the people..............charming and persuasive. Of course, I could be very wrong in my assessment. I really haven't been looking that hard,
as I have my eyes on Jesus in these perilous days. But, even so, I haven't seen anyone lately who would blatently fill the bill of what I expect.
I do see certain people who could be precursors to him tho.......... or are being used to usher him in, whoever he is. It may become even clearer as
time goes by............either before or after the rapture.

 

[Armor of Light]

The wound on AC has to kill him and then comes back to life and amazes everyone.

One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast. he seemed/appeared to have a fatal head wound, pure deception, the enemy is a master of deception.

 

[TCC]

I'm grateful it reads the way it does to pastor Adrian. Because, although in general i believe it is healthier for the church to not focus on the AC and beast system as much as we might, and in fact i believe it might be of such high value in the body that it could pose (in my estimation) serious blinders in contrast to what otherwise might really be going on (not that there would not be some measure of concern though, granted). I'm grateful because in the American Reformed world i had been in, they used to desire their teaching to "let the lion out of the cage," to sort of speak. Meaning "letting the word speak for itself clearly." But a lot of the Hermetics going on in that camp had tended to do quite the opposite in many ways. What Pastor Adrian weighed in on is no doubt controversial for some to many. But for me, it is a refreshing look at the issue of that section of scripture.

We can tend, in evangelicalism, to really super charge some areas of scripture as practically theological hills to die on because of how convinced we might be over particular views in scripture. And that sort of thing occurring can bring tribal attitudes into the mix. So I am always blessed to see when we look at scripture what it really can contain on the theological ways we might hold or have held. Coming out of the American reformed church, for me, that has been no small task. And its value rather priceless. But as far as how Adrian unpacked 2 Thes, its interesting for sure to note that there might actually be a sense in which the church might actually see such a thing forming.

Personally i don't believe we will. My general sense of 2 Thes is in reference to the tribulation midpoint. Which is not so much the going trending way to look at it in our day. But even so, I am aware that because it is the word of God it is not outside the range of possibility that even though if it is as i see, it could actually be for both mid point and transition into the tribulation simultaneously. Well, at least in kind of how i might understand. But I am blessed by Adrian's view here because even aside from what we believe the scripture to be saying...there could be a sense where we are missing something about it. And leaving room for that potential in general i would see as healthy. Blessings.

 

[Tall Timbers]

But, even so, I haven't seen anyone lately who would blatently fill the bill of what I expect.

The little horn probably won't be a real noticeable person (not widely known) until something happens to cause him to rise up out of his little horn position into a more prominent role.

 

[Andy C]

This is an interesting thread with lots of great comments!

I long ago quit trying to guess who the AC is. Why should I care? His role is already defined in the Bible, and we know what his end state will be. We also know he loses in the end and wins an all expenses paid, eternity in a lake…..

I suspect the tribulation saints will quickly come to know that the new leader of the world is the AC.

As for the church, we won’t be here.

If we are truly as close to the end times as we all seem to believe, this would mean the AC is alive. It’s possible even he does not know he will be called upon by Satan to be the AC

 

[Hol]

I long ago quit trying to guess who the AC is. Why should I care?

I’m interested in the false prophet system. Whatever spiritual deceiving movement it is, it will try to deceive us believers.

This morning in Psalm 81 this verse jumped out: “The haters of the LORD would pretend submission to Him,” 15a

The FP system will seem religious and it’s comforting in an odd way to think it’s the Catholic Church & Pope, but what if it’s more invasive to the evangelical church, maybe like a Ravi Zacharias type? He took a lot of us in and in a non-ceremonial quiet way.

 

[Andy C]

I’m interested in the false prophet system. Whatever spiritual deceiving movement it is, it will try to deceive us believers.

This morning in Psalm 81 this verse jumped out: “The haters of the LORD would pretend submission to Him,” 15a

The FP system will seem religious and it’s comforting in an odd way to think it’s the Catholic Church & Pope, but what if it’s more invasive to the evangelical church, maybe like a Ravi Zacharias type? He took a lot of us in and in a non-ceremonial quiet way.

IMO, any type of one world religious system will not be in place until the false prophet arrives during the tribulation. Until then, while the church is still here, plenty of of false teachers will gather a large following, but not be able to deceive His Church while the Holy Spirit is still here.

 

[Goodboy]

I just want to say that before Obama was found out this year as to who he really is, he would have been a very good candidate for being the Antichrist. I mean he was young, very well spoken, good looking and had a unexplained cult following who did not even know what he stood for. To me he would have been perfect! I never, ever thought that Trump could be the Antichrist as too many people have always been against him. The Antichrist will fool everyone!

 

[GLC11]

I’m interested in the false prophet system. Whatever spiritual deceiving movement it is, it will try to deceive us believers.

I really feel that this antisemitism that is growing is a deceiving movement. It’s deceiving believers that I have known for years, and I can’t get over how they are acting.

Of course they think Tucker and Candace are the “great important voices of our time”

 

[Hol]

I really feel that this antisemitism that is growing is a deceiving movement. It’s deceiving believers that I have known for years, and I can’t get over how they are acting.

Of course they think Tucker and Candace are the “great important voices of our time”

I think you’re right.

I couldn’t put my finger on it. I try to catch several Jewish podcasts each week and for the past (almost) 24- months they bring up stories of pre-1930s Jews in E. Europe who should have noticed some obvious signs.

Unfortunately lots of Christians also missed the deceiving movement, except for those like Bonhoeffer, the Ten Booms, etc.