I have a question about the revealing of Antichrist

[1LoverofGod]

I know we can see in 2 Thessalonians 2 that the revealing of the man of lawlessness will occur when the Restrainer is taken out of the way.
This is said to mean that when the rapture occurs then the Antichrist will be revealed.
But how long after the Rapture would he be revealed?
I have heard some teach that the rider on the white horse in the opening of the first Seal depicts Antichrist, while others believe it depicts the Antichrist Beast system.
What has me wondering about the revealing of Antichrist is that it's apparent by scripture that in the beginning Antichrist will deceive many, most assuredly Israel and he confirms the covenant with the many which involves Israel according to Daniel's prophecy.
So, if in the beginning Antichrist deceives many, isn't it likely he's not revealed until the abomination of desolation occurs and he declares himself to be god?
Isn't this what reveals to Israel that he's an imposter and that causes him to break the covenant?
Now I believe the Rapture will happen before he's revealed. We're gone when the fullness of the Gentiles is complete.
But then I wonder, could Antichrist be revealed by the middle of the seventieth week? Isn't there a distinction between revealed and appears?
I won't lose sleep over this but I have thought about it and have wondered what revealed really means.
Thoughts?

 

[1LoverofGod]

Part of what has me thinking about this is that in Daniel 7:7 it says the beast Kingdom is in place. The little horn subdues three and in reading
Revelation 17:12 it says

12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast."

So, when exactly is the Antichrist revealed?

I'm certainly not looking for Antichrist. I'm looking for Jesus. But I have found this question interesting because so many think as soon as we are raptured the Tribulation will begin with the signing of the covenant with the many.

 

[Goodboy]

I know we can see in 2 Thessalonians 2 that the revealing of the man of lawlessness will occur when the Restrainer is taken out of the way.
This is said to mean that when the rapture occurs then the Antichrist will be revealed.
But how long after the Rapture would he be revealed?

While I don't claim to know a lot about Prophecy and could be wrong, I will tell you what I believe.

Only Christians and I guess also pretend Christians know about the Antichrist and who he is and what he will do. In other words that he is evil. Those who don't believe in the Bible will not believe he is the Antichrist as they don't even believe in an Antichrist. Anyone who becomes a Christian or pretends to be a Christian during the Tribulation will know who he is (Revealed) as soon as he signs the covenant. My understanding is that Israel will not know he is the Antichrist until he declares himself as God after three and a half years. Remember the religious Jews don't read or believe in the New Testament of the Bible.

I hope I have stated that right.

 

[1LoverofGod]

While I don't claim to know a lot about Prophecy and could be wrong, I will tell you what I believe.

Only Christians and I guess also pretend Christians know about the Antichrist and who he is and what he will do. In other words that he is evil. Those who don't believe in the Bible will not believe he is the Antichrist as they don't even believe in an Antichrist. Anyone who becomes a Christian or pretends to be a Christian during the Tribulation will know who he is (Revealed) as soon as he signs the covenant. My understanding is that Israel will not know he is the Antichrist until he declares himself as God after three and a half years. Remember the religious Jews don't read or believe in the New Testament of the Bible.

I hope I have stated that right.

But when does he sign that covenant?
Based on Scripture, it appears that the Beast kingdom will already be in place with Antichrist as part of it, but Revelation 17:12 says he doesn't have immediate power. He can't make that covenant unless he has the power to do so

 

[Goodboy]

But when does he sign that covenant?
Based on Scripture, it appears that the Beast kingdom will already be in place with Antichrist as part of it, but Revelation 17:12 says he doesn't have immediate power. He can't make that covenant unless he has the power to do so

You are getting a little too deep for me now. Someone else that understands Prophecy better will have to respond to you at this point.
Sorry.

 

[1LoverofGod]

You are getting a little too deep for me now. Someone else that understands Prophecy better will have to respond to you at this point.
Sorry.

I don't know more than an incling about prophecy and what I know is by using Scripture cross reference in the Bible for clarity.
But there are some things that stand out to me that have me asking questions when I hear some say a specific prophecy means this or that and yet a scripture seems to not go with what is said.
This Revelation 17:12 verse stands out to me saying that Antichrist will be part of the initial Beast Kingdom but not immediately have authority.
I would think for Antichrist to make that covenant of Peace he would have to have authority already.
So, like other things that aren't so clear to me, the timing doesn't sound right for the Antichrist to immediately start the Tribulation with the signing of the covenant unless there's something I'm missing.
Could the rider on the white horse actually be the Beast Kingdom but the rise of Antichrist comes later?
This is a deep question.

 

[Goodboy]

I don't know more than an incling about prophecy and what I know is by using Scripture cross reference in the Bible for clarity.
But there are some things that stand out to me that have me asking questions when I hear some say a specific prophecy means this or that and yet a scripture seems to not go with what is said.
This Revelation 17:12 verse stands out to me saying that Antichrist will be part of the initial Beast Kingdom but not immediately have authority.
I would think for Antichrist to make that covenant of Peace he would have to have authority already.
So, like other things that aren't so clear to me, the timing doesn't sound right for the Antichrist to immediately start the Tribulation with the signing of the covenant unless there's something I'm missing.
Could the rider on the white horse actually be the Beast Kingdom but the rise of Antichrist comes later?
This is a deep question.

A lot of what is to happen during the tribulation is not for us to understand and completely know at this time. Those who are in the tribulation and have read the Bible will understand. We cannot make conclusions of some things the Bible says regarding the future now as facts.

As example, the Bible says the following.
Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
With all of our knowledge today has anyone figured out who the beast is? Nope, but during the Tribulation some will.

An example of something that only made sense in our time is Revelation 11:9.
Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Revelation 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Revelation 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Revelation 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

Only in our times did we gain the ability to see what is happening anywhere in the world real time. While Bible future may be interesting we will not be here, so we don't really need to understand it. There is enough in the Bible regarding our times that we should study.

That is what I think anyway.

 

[1LoverofGod]

A lot of what is to happen during the tribulation is not for us to understand and completely know at this time. Those who are in the tribulation and have read the Bible will understand. We cannot make conclusions of some things the Bible says regarding the future now as facts.

As example, the Bible says the following.
Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
With all of our knowledge today has anyone figured out who the beast is? Nope, but during the Tribulation some will.

An example of something that only made sense in our time is Revelation 11:9.
Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Revelation 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Revelation 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Revelation 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

Only in our times did we gain the ability to see what is happening anywhere in the world real time. While Bible future may be interesting we will not be here, so we don't really need to understand it. There is enough in the Bible regarding our times that we should study.

That is what I think anyway.

I get what you are saying.
Like I said I don't lose sleep over my question, but because it's said that upon the Rapture it will allow for the revealing of Antichrist per 2 Thessalonians 2. This poses my thoughts on whether the understanding of what is meant by the revealing of the man of lawlessness is accurate based on what I cited above.

 

[1LoverofGod]

Nevermind
I don't want to be in the ranks of "inquiring minds want to know"
It was just a question that I wondered about as to differences of revealed and appears considering what happens once we are gone.

 

[Greg]

I don't know more than an incling about prophecy and what I know is by using Scripture cross reference in the Bible for clarity.
But there are some things that stand out to me that have me asking questions when I hear some say a specific prophecy means this or that and yet a scripture seems to not go with what is said.
This Revelation 17:12 verse stands out to me saying that Antichrist will be part of the initial Beast Kingdom but not immediately have authority.
I would think for Antichrist to make that covenant of Peace he would have to have authority already.
So, like other things that aren't so clear to me, the timing doesn't sound right for the Antichrist to immediately start the Tribulation with the signing of the covenant unless there's something I'm missing.
Could the rider on the white horse actually be the Beast Kingdom but the rise of Antichrist comes later?
This is a deep question.

Who signs or strengthens the agreement in Daniel 9? I think the context points to that being an individual, and further, that particular individual. Open question to me how prominent that person's position is at the time though. As an example only (I don't believe this, but consider a Jared Kushner type compared to a Trump
....sone type of rising star on the international scene). Something like that could be a possibility. Israel is waiting for the messiah, and I believe they'll get it wrong at first. Muslims, at least the Shiites, are looking for the mahdi. New agers are looking for maitreya or some such. Satanists are looking for the man of sin. They'll all find something...

 

[1LoverofGod]

Who signs or strengthens the agreement in Daniel 9? I think the context points to that being an individual, and further, that particular individual. Open question to me how prominent that person's position is at the time though. As an example only (I don't believe this, but consider a Jared Kushner type compared to a Trump
....sone type of rising star on the international scene). Something like that could be a possibility. Israel is waiting for the messiah, and I believe they'll get it wrong at first. Muslims, at least the Shiites, are looking for the mahdi. New agers are looking for maitreya or some such. Satanists are looking for the man of sin. They'll all find something...

Can you elaborate on Revelation 17:12 for me please?

 

[Greg]

Can you elaborate on Revelation 17:12 for me please?

Most probably think it's a regional government that arises first, either before (probably imo) or after the Tribulation starts. The beast arises from that group and they hand over power to him, either willingly or maybe a few under duress). The club of rome envisioned such a regional world-wide government, for instance. Some people think it's brics, but I don't personally buy that. Others think it's a technocracy or oligarchy. Like everything else, I think it'll get clearer the closer we get.

 

[1LoverofGod]

Most probably think it's a regional government that arises first, either before (probably imo) or after the Tribulation starts. The beast arises from that group and they hand over power to him, either willingly or maybe a few under duress). The club of rome envisioned such a regional world-wide government, for instance. Some people think it's brics, but I don't personally buy that. Others think it's a technocracy or oligarchy. Like everything else, I think it'll get clearer the closer we get.

I tend to think it will turn out to be ten regions myself.
When those ten regions are formed and become a One World Government, I believe the AC will be one of those leaders and because of his heritage being called "the Assyrian" and then if the interpretation is correct about the legs of iron and clay with ten toes being a revived Roman Empire, I would think AC will be leader rising from that region of the old Roman Empire having been revived and will rule over the ten regions.

 

[Anastacia]

Can you elaborate on Revelation 17:12 for me please?

I've also been stumped by the timing of AC key moments you mention. Sometimes I think I get it figured out then I question it again. Like you, i look at the 1st Seal and wonder how can the AC be powerful enough to sign the covenant if he's just an unknown little horn. So perhaps Seal 1 being the beast system could answer that since the AC isn't evident until the Trib's midpoint at the AoD. But @Goodboy made a really great point about how unbelievers dont realize he's the AC even though he was revealed. I've never thought of this!

And Rev. 17:12
*The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour.
These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast.* NASB

The closer we are getting to the Rapture and Trib, I feel like I know even less since things are coming together with unexpected details that suddenly cause hairpin turns. I do think a OWG forms, then 10 kings rule over the whole world. I'm one who is beginning to lean toward technocrat rulers, not necessarily actual kings since it says they have no kingdom. Perhaps we even see the OWG and maybe even the rise of these 10 kings. And when the AC rises to power, they've been primed by evil ambitions that they are already of "one mind" since we know it's Satan's plan that he has filled their minds with.

But I also don't lose sleep over the details (or I'll frustrated myself) because so much happens in a day that I didn't anticipate, but I know where it's heading.
I hope others here will chime in with more details I've never thought of! But I sure appreciate when I see that others also get stuck on details or timelines!

 

[1LoverofGod]

I've also been stumped by the timing of AC key moments you mention. Sometimes I think I get it figured out then I question it again. Like you, i look at the 1st Seal and wonder how can the AC be powerful enough to sign the covenant if he's just an unknown little horn. So perhaps Seal 1 being the beast system could answer that since the AC isn't evident until the Trib's midpoint at the AoD. But @Goodboy made a really great point about how unbelievers dont realize he's the AC even though he was revealed. I've never thought of this!

And Rev. 17:12
*The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour.
These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast.* NASB

The closer we are getting to the Rapture and Trib, I feel like I know even less since things are coming together with unexpected details that suddenly cause hairpin turns. I do think a OWG forms, then 10 kings rule over the whole world. I'm one who is beginning to lean toward technocrat rulers, not necessarily actual kings since it says they have no kingdom. Perhaps we even see the OWG and maybe even the rise of these 10 kings. And when the AC rises to power, they've been primed by evil ambitions that they are already of "one mind" since we know it's Satan's plan that he has filled their minds with.

But I also don't lose sleep over the details (or I'll frustrated myself) because so much happens in a day that I didn't anticipate, but I know where it's heading.
I hope others here will chime in with more details I've never thought of! But I sure appreciate when I see that others also get stuck on details or timelines!

I don't etch this in stone but I have thought of the possibility we could be here to see the formation of the OWG. We may not. But it's possible because from Revelation 17:12 the Beast is with the OWG for "one hour", which to me doesn't necessarily mean a literal hour but means a short time, no one would know who the AC is yet, but examining Daniel's vision of the Little Horn subduing three others from the OWG, this could be aligned with the Revelation 17:12 power being given to the Beast.
I keep thinking to myself, wouldn't AC need to be in power to confirm the covenant with the many? At this point he would be the one world leader.
When I look at the opening of the first Seal, I then turn to Daniel's vision of the fourth Beast and compare.
It could be possible that the rider on the white horse is the Beast system of that Fourth Beast in Daniel 7:7.
All of the Seals riders are referred to as a he. Does that mean that the events that happen from the opening of those Seals are actually a single person doing these things? Or could they mean that these things come about from within humans?
I've had questions just to have better understanding of what is meant when I compare scriptures with Scripture.
But like I said, I won't lose sleep over it. God is in control and has determined the outcome and Jesus wins! And we are Victorious in Jesus.

 

[Tall Timbers]

I've also been stumped by the timing of AC key moments you mention. Sometimes I think I get it figured out then I question it again. Like you, i look at the 1st Seal and wonder how can the AC be powerful enough to sign the covenant if he's just an unknown little horn. So perhaps Seal 1 being the beast system could answer that since the AC isn't evident until the Trib's midpoint at the AoD.

To be the one confirming that covenant he'll have to have risen up in the global govmint system that develops before he does the confirming. By then he'll be somebody.

 

[Anastacia]

To be the one confirming that covenant he'll have to have risen up in the global govmint system that develops before he does the confirming. By then he'll be somebody.

It does seem he would have to have some political clout even before the signing. I do think the OWG is already forming, even gradually, so we may see some or all of it. ...But, will the AC be ruling it before he signs the covenant of Dan. 9:27 ?

It's been my understanding that Seal 1 is the AC's arrival after the Restrainer is removed (2 Thes. 2:6 and Rev. 6) and yet Daniel 9:27 is the signing of the covenant, marking the beginning of the Trib.
Maybe that means the AC is politically active and gaining public recognition but we just won't know it's him. Maybe he is active but remains "a little horn" while the church is here.

I assume it will all play out rather quickly, seamlessly clicking into place, and all this wondering is mostly pointless!

 

[1LoverofGod]

It does seem he would have to have some political clout even before the signing. I do think the OWG is already forming, even gradually, so we may see some or all of it. ...But, will the AC be ruling it before he signs the covenant of Dan. 9:27 ?

It's been my understanding that Seal 1 is the AC's arrival after the Restrainer is removed (2 Thes. 2:6 and Rev. 6) and yet Daniel 9:27 is the signing of the covenant, marking the beginning of the Trib.
Maybe that means the AC is politically active and gaining public recognition but we just won't know it's him. Maybe he is active but remains "a little horn" while the church is here.

I assume it will all play out rather quickly, seamlessly clicking into place, and all this wondering is mostly pointless!

Yup. Pointless to dwell on something the church won't be here to see

 

[Tall Timbers]

But, will the AC be ruling it before he signs the covenant of Dan. 9:27

I'm guessing not, but it's possible.

 

[Tall Timbers]

I assume it will all play out rather quickly, seamlessly clicking into place, and all this wondering is mostly pointless!

But we can't help ourselves