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There is a guy at my church that speaks an African language that he was never taught. He claims he was able to do it after getting saved. He said that it is completely effortless. I want to ask him about it again, he said he would show me years ago but I never followed up with it.
Thanks for your reply brother. I appreciate it.
I have heard a number of accounts, but I have at least one that is first hand. My first wife was an active evangelist. One day she was praying in our apartment with a number of unsaved young people who had gathered there to hear her present the gospel to them. As she was praying, she suddenly began speaking in tongues. After she finished the prayer one of the teens said to her, "I didn't know you could speak my language." My wife (who only had a grade 7 education) expressed surprise and said she couldn't speak anything but English. The girl replied, "You were speaking Arabic and you were praising God!" Things like that happened a lot with her.
I was thinking of that account you shared before, Pastor. I've never known anyone personally who has done that but I have heard similar accounts from missionaries. Reminds me that God can do anything he wants for his Glory.
100% -- needs to be literally typed
You bring up some excellent points about Jews not really being impacted from the tongues we hear in American churches. I don't believe those are legitimate anyways, the gibberish common in Charismatic Churches. I attended an Assemblies of God church for 1.5 years and didn't last long as I started digging into scripture and seeing glaring inconsistencies with what they were practicing. That I believe is pure emotionalism that riles up that kind of response to lose control and speak nonsense. Interestingly enough it was always women speaking gibberish and prone to it. I always thought that was interesting. Of course, never an interpreter either. lol. I laugh because it's too frustrating not too.Thanks for your reply brother. I appreciate it.
Yeah it would be interesting to hear about. In general, The reason I am asking I would like to leave here as a general point to consider for this thread in general. The reason I was asking about if anyone has heard people speak languages they never learned, is because Brandon does bring up a very good point about the early church's supernatural ability to speak in languages they have not learned. And that it is a judgement to Israel. I think these are key observations.
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In the sense of a judgement to Israel, if that is what is meant for today though, in observation it does not seem to be that though. What i mean is that it is so rare that we find anyone who has spoken in a language they have not learned. If it is that rare, how is it though then a judgement to Israel? They never hear it. I would like to stress at this point that although I am a cessationist, I was in the Charismatic movement for a number of years. And although we may differ on sign gifts, for the most part I respect the differences. We are in the same body. So I'm not intending by asking, to debate. But as @Cheeky200386 has posted this video of Brandon I am just hopeful to respond to the video per its point of focus on something we can consider from what he said in general. To @Cheeky200386 credit, I have not really ventured much at this level regarding the issue of tongues. So it has been helpful for me to consider as well at this point--something i would normally not track with.
But if we are to go by what Brandon shared, which is from the word of God, speaking in languages we have not learned is not only extremely rare in the church, but secular studies have very few cases of coming across this over the centuries. And if it is that hard for the secular world to find it occur, how is that a judgement to Israel though? It would seem for the most part non-existent in general though.
To take it a slight step beyond where Brandon took this, when we read Acts 2, what we don't find is people speaking in languages they never learned exactly. What we do find, in English, a language we all speak on this forum, is that the Jews from foreign countries having different languages, each one hearing all the saints speaking in their own foreign land based language. In other words, it was not just a supernatural speaking of a foreign language. It was a supernatural ability to speak in every language at the same time. So if we look for that guy in the church, he does not exist today though. This is why I would see it as a reversal of the Tower of Babel. And a judgement testimony of the New Testament about to roll out for the gentile speaking world. It was a judgement, but in addition a form of prophesy miraculously demonstrated by God through the early church. Testifying of God's word now opening up for people of all languages to have, not just Israel. But that gentiles would be taking the honored mantle of being those charged with carrying His authentic word and message for Him. No longer specific to Israel, as the New Testament removes it from their office as a people charged with His message to the world.
So although it is an interesting point that Brandon brings up, that tongues was a judgement to Israel, we did see Jews in Acts react to this. And they were perplexed by it. We can ask, "Are any Jews today perplexed by hearing people speak in every language at the same time?" I don't believe we see any Jew though perplexed by this today. On that note it would seem that although Brandon has taken this in a direction beyond where many would not have ventured, it is not exactly accurate that the gift of tongues was ever limited to one language not learned. Somewhat of a rationalization of the text in part it would seem. As i mentioned before, I like Brandon. And have literally learned from the man. But we don't have people speaking in all languages at the same time today, at least that i am aware of. Blessings.
Acts 2
5 Now there were Jews residing in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together and they were bewildered, because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own [e]language. 7 They were amazed and astonished, saying, “[f]Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 And how is it that we each hear them in our own [g]language [h]to which we were born? 9 Parthians, Medes, and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea, and Cappadocia, Pontus and [i]Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya around Cyrene, and [j]visitors from Rome, both Jews and [k]proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own [l]tongues of the mighty deeds of God.” 12 And they all continued in amazement and great perplexity, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13 But others were jeering and saying, “They are full of [m]sweet wine!”
One of the many reasons you are a cherished sister here beyond your being in His fold, amen, is that you live out the fulness of Cheeky created in His image redeemed. And bring with her treasures from your heart to share in the beautiful glory of His sincere majesty upon our hearts and minds. Thanks for your encouraging words Cheeky. I was trained in gibberish as we say the first few years of being a Charismatic. I understand
But it was like living on another planet. Some were church induced. But i don't think they used energy weapons yet to cause me to think thoughts not my own yet. lol.
I absolutely agree that God can do whatever He wants. But what do you read in Scripture that leads you to believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased? If they were included merely as history, then surely we would read of them in the Book of Acts but not find them talked about in the instructional epistles. Yet they are described in great detail in 1 Corinthians 12-14 and also mentioned in Romans 12, Ephesians 4, and 1 Peter 4. Anyway, what scriptural peg or (better yet) pegs do you hang this belief on, my brother?
I'm genuinely curious, but how is one trained in gibberish? How did they get you to voluntarily speak in gibberish and claim it was the Holy Spirit? I've always wondered this and have heard that you just have to losen your mouth and let whatever comes out out. That always sounded absurd to me, as if the Holy Spirit needed our help to speak through us. Even the idea of being trained was a red flag to me because then it goes against the idea that it's a miracle and we never read that the Disciples had to train to do what they did in the book of Acts. Just all of it made no sense to me and did not align with what scripture states.One of the many reasons you are a cherished sister here beyond your being in His fold, amen, is that you live out the fulness of Cheeky created in His image redeemed. And bring with her treasures from your heart to share in the beautiful glory of His sincere majesty upon our hearts and minds. Thanks for your encouraging words Cheeky. I was trained in gibberish as we say the first few years of being a Charismatic. I understand
I have seen though an ex-girlfriend of mine was praying with her friend near by in my house. And later told me that while they were praying they understood something about a friend of mine and warned me about a friend of mine because of some of his background. They would have no knowledge of. I already knew. But clearly something was revealed to them just their being in prayer together. Amazing.
Later on, a different girl friend of mine was being primed by the church i was at to train her in the ways of relational pursuit. That church we attended became very involved in micromanaging even our thoughts...lol. We were kept from each other for a time trying to exercise their understanding of leadership role. It was due to our inexperience not that we were sinning. But for a time they made me jump through hoops guessing what honoring them as leaders was supposed to look like and be like as they interfered without disclosure. Normally if a lady does not like me, i'm gone yesterday. No worries. But this church wanted to prime in me the "pursuit" while they were constantly breaking up with me through her...lol. To see if i had it in me.
One night, i was going to the movies with a male friend. And was under the impression this girl wanted nothing to do with me by then. So i was getting ready to go to the movies, and in a very unusual manner i saw like a little scene in my head, "Teren, call me." Almost like it was a bit more than a whim or wish or ideal. By nature I am a deconstructionist...and look for reasons to see the worst. So for me, her being out of the picture was comfortable....preferable...because it it told me I was correct to be so negative. And negative is better than uncertainty. But it was pretty surreal.
Small and insignificant event, but while i was at the movies she called me. lol. This rollercoaster lasted 2 years and had things like this and a whole lot deeper going on. Where God would show me stuff like behind the curtain. Things i could not normally know. And fore me, things i was even not too willing to be sure i'd want to know. I would say there are about 20 experiences near unique like that in my life cocnering that episode of life. All super-natural (meaning beyond the norm) from a cessationist church trying to help teach us both manners from an overly excited sense of conservative etiquette "enforcement," syndrome. If you saw the movie The Adjustment Bureau it was like that almost. Or Adam Sandler's Anger Management. Both movies (Anger Management on cable replays) came out while going through all that too...lol. You'd think i'd get a clue.
All that to just say, yeah, I'm a cessations...but God can do whatever He wants. Amen.
And the Bible is clear that different members of the church have different functions with different gifts to support that function, so not everyone will get the same gifts.
I know what you mean. I've heard of that too. The way i meant though (not to confuse that some churches do dabble in training) is more like reared, encouraged, and guide by emphasis upon it. I was baptized at Church on the way. And the pastor then was Jack Hayford...somewhat known on Christian radio at the time. The just said, "Open your mouth and begin to speak, it will just happen." So i did not mean it in the traditional sense. But more like the poetic sense. But i agree. In one way, believing tongues to be stoked like fire through practice and training, it speaks likely to a prism of in some to many ways the church having drifted off into rationalism...even in the more charismatic venues. Good point cheeky
