Evangelism Teaching at My Church

[mattfivefour]

The thing is everyone does not need to change their mind, as they may already agree with God. For those it is not ABC but just BC, meaning believe and confess. I already knew I was a sinner, so I only needed the B and the C.

So I am not saying no one should, but I don't mention Hell or tell them anything they have to do other than what Romans says which is believe and confess.

This is exactly why I do not like a one size fits all gospel presentation; because not everybody is the same. Not at all. And our brother has expressed it well by using his own life as an example. I was different: I needed to be down I was a sinner I got some nice guy who could work his way into Heaven.

Some people know for a fact they are sinners; others do not. Therefore it is foolishness to try and convict a sinner of their sin when they're already wallowing in a hopeless sense of their sinfulness. But it is equally foolish to give the good news of Jesus Christ to those who have no sense of their sinfulness. Those latter are the ones who are likely to dismiss you because they see no need of the good news you are presenting.

My view is our gospel presentation must always meet the need the person to whom we are presenting. And we can trust the Holy Spirit to do that. He will lead us in the right way. Always. Preparation is excellent: we all need to know the basics of our faith and God's plan of salvation. But scripts just don't work...at least in my view.

However, the Holy Spirit knows the person to whom we are witnessing and knows exactly what they need. Therefore, once we have the basics in our heart, then when we set out to witness we should learn to trust in the Holy Spirit to lead...and to fill our mouth. After all we can only share the Word of God. The Holy Spirit is the One -- the ONLY one-- who can take that Word and actually convert the heart of the sinner.

 

[Andiamo]

This is exactly why I do not like a one size fits all gospel presentation; because not everybody is the same. Not at all. And our brother has expressed it well by using his own life as an example. I was different: I needed to be down I was a sinner I got some nice guy who could work his way into Heaven.

Some people know for a fact they are sinners; others do not. Therefore it is foolishness to try and convict a sinner of their sin when they're already wallowing in a hopeless sense of their sinfulness. But it is equally foolish to give the good news of Jesus Christ to those who have no sense of their sinfulness. Those latter are the ones who are likely to dismiss you because they see no need of the good news you are presenting.

My view is our gospel presentation must always meet the need the person to whom we are presenting. And we can trust the Holy Spirit to do that. He will lead us in the right way. Always. Preparation is excellent: we all need to know the basics of our faith and God's plan of salvation. But scripts just don't work...at least in my view.

However, the Holy Spirit knows the person to whom we are witnessing and knows exactly what they need. Therefore, once we have the basics in our heart, then when we set out to witness we should learn to trust in the Holy Spirit to lead...and to fill our mouth. After all we can only share the Word of God. The Holy Spirit is the One -- the ONLY one-- who can take that Word and actually convert the heart of the sinner.

Yes, and I was also thinking that we don’t know exactly where in life these people are when we walk up to them with this script. What if their baby just died yesterday? Or they are battling cancer? Or they are depressed and suicidal? Or they are about to go to prison? And then we walk up to them with this script. It is very uncaring to me. How can you care for a person’s soul but not care about them as a human being? But if you stay on that script that is exactly what you are doing. In my opinion.
Not sure if Ray goes off script when he encounters these cases. And that’s probably because he edits those out of his videos!

 

[mattfivefour]

we don’t know exactly where in life these people are when we walk up to them with this script. What if their baby just died yesterday? Or they are battling cancer? Or they are depressed and suicidal? Or they are about to go to prison? And then we walk up to them with this script. It is very uncaring to me. How can you care for a person’s soul but not care about them as a human being?

Exactly Andi. But the Holy Spirit always knows. And we can trust Him. He loves the person we are witnessing to more than we ever could, and He knows exactly how to reach them in their heart.

I think it is possibly pride or a lack of deep faith in God that makes us think we have to devise our own methods.

 

[Andiamo]

Exactly Andi. But the Holy Spirit always knows. And we can trust Him. He loves the person we are witnessing to more than we ever could, and He knows exactly how to reach them in their heart.

I think it is possibly pride or a lack of deep faith in God that makes us think we have to devise our own methods.

I think too it’s because people are afraid to trust and believe they are being led and guided by God in their encounters with people. As to What to say and not say. If they would just ask and believe, Which is another thing I was hoping would be taught in the evangelism class. Things like how to listen and not talk out of your flesh.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

I believe God puts us when and where He needs us to meet unbelievers, and how we share The Gospel is determined in great part by our personality, knowledge, and experience, the other person's personality, needs, circumstances, etc., how we came to meet, the culture(s), religions, genders, etc. involved, but most importantly, The Holy Ghost.

We're just the instrument God uses to invite the other person.

What that person does with the gift is up to him or her, and it's fun watching The Holy Ghost work His miracle

 

[mattfivefour]

I think too it’s because people are afraid to trust and believe they are being led and guided by God in their encounters with people. As to What to say and not say. If they would just ask and believe, Which is another thing I was hoping would be taught in the evangelism class. Things like how to listen and not talk out of your flesh.

That's what I mean by lacking in faith. You have articulated it well.

Pray for your pastor to include the things above you would like taught. Prayer works. And also we pastors or teachers or any study leaders need prayer: none of us has it all together. You can also help your pastor by asking the right questions in the class (at the appropriate time, of course) that will give your pastor an opening to speak of these things you know to be necessary.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

Different approaches for different people (just like different teaching methods for learners with different learning styles and abilities).

A very basic example. Tracts are wonderful for some people because they can read and see pictures/cartoons and ask questions. And sometimes take one with to share with an unsaved friend or family member (especially fun when the person is a brand new believer and is so excited he or she wants to share the Good News with loved one(s) right away

However, I don't give tracts to muslim women and girls because it's very dangerous for them to even be seen refusing one. Getting caught with one in her possession, say by her husband or the religious police, could very well result in her death, even here in the United States. Frequently, encounters have to be brief, can only be woman-tp-woman, and conversations have to look like we're discussing something else obvious, like a product, about which I have a question. Sharing Law and Gospel in 30 seconds Sometimes I can't even talk to the woman and/or girl, and all she/they can do is read my T shirt and see the crucifix

The Holy Ghost does wonderful things in all circumstances

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

Hey, @Andiamo

Funny, the BibleGateway Verse of the day:

Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
James 5:26, NIV
Other versions:

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
James 5:26, KJV

Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.
James 5:26, ESV

 

[Andiamo]

There was a recent guest speaker (Dr. Dennis Rokser) at Andy Woods church who spoke on repentance and how it's to be biblically understood. These might be a helpful resource:

Do You Need to Change Your Mind about Repentance Part 1 - Sugar Land Bible Church | slbc.org

slbc.org

Do You Need to Change Your Mind about Repentance Part 2 - Sugar Land Bible Church | slbc.org

slbc.org

Edited to add, he deals with Ray Comfort in the first one.

WOWEE!!!! We just watched part one tonight. It was EXCELLENT. Took lots of notes. Hard to believe there is a part 2, because that was a slam dunk! Can’t wait to see it. Thank you!!!
And it’s only been online for 10 days. So it’s new which I think that is remarkable timing, and I just sat there and prayed and prayed that my pastor would see it somehow. Soooo tempted to send it to him, or even post it on the church chat (which would be totally manipulative I know) but would rather keep praying that it lands in his YouTube feed.
Whoever reads this please agree with me in prayer that my pastor changes his mind and drops this idea for something better. I have a bad feeling this Way of the Master teaching would be divisive for our church.

 

[Andiamo]

And in that part one video, he shows a clip of Ray Comfort telling a guy that he needs to turn from his sin and “live in holiness.” The girl with him was obviously a believer and was trying to tell him, but he just kept asking her “do you live a holy life? She replied “I’m not perfect but I’m forgiven.” It was sad, because here she was a believer but he didn’t even recognize it because she didn’t say “yes.” I would have said, “Yes I do, because my life is hid with Christ in God.”

 

[Eric Nicholas]

If you preach the wrong Gospel at any point, you've not only done it wrong, but you have also actively engaged in potentially eternal demise for all parties involved. There is no leeway. There are no margins. The tolerances are so tight, you can't see daylight through it. We don't get to take our own personal approach or take a crack at it. It's not up for debate, nor is it an opinion. You preach a false gospel, you're an agent of Satan. If you believe in a false gospel, you will on hundred percent be eternally separated from God, no matter your intent.

There are no humans on God's earth that have successfully "turned from sin". Not one. Nor will there ever be in this current condition. I do notice they use the phrase "I stumble", as if it were sorta kinda sin, but maybe not really? Maybe sin lite? Or if they don't do abortions, partake in homosexuality, cuss, or engage in the garden variety favorites of the "Church", who with a straight face think they are working their way to Heaven, that they must be doing just fine. I suppose, to them, the crucifixion is some cosmic ritual that happened, but apart from miracles, they more or less can achieve the same level of sin suppression. Please. I have no patience for any of it, nor should any bought by the Blood Christian. It's the most lethal thing anyone could engage in. It's incomprehensibly more lethal than playing in traffic during rush hour, blindfolded.

Here (my emphasis):

Gal.1​

[1] Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;
[2] And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
[3] Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
[4] Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
[5] To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
[6] I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
[7] Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
[8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
[9] As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

[mattfivefour]

Sister, I'd either send it to your pastor asking for his comment or perspective on it, or if that is too fearful a thing for you to do, then I'd post it on the church chat. Prayer is indeed so very important in situations such as this, but God also calls us to action. So, that is what I would do. However, you need to do what the Holy Spirit leads you to do, after prayer. Don't be afraid of whatever He leads you to do. If you act, He will ensure your actions lead to good results. He most assuredly does not want Satan to hinder your church's evangelism efforts.

 

[Andiamo]

Sister, I'd either send it to your pastor asking for his comment or perspective on it, or if that is too fearful a thing for you to do, then I'd post it on the church chat. Prayer is indeed so very important in situations such as this, but God also calls us to action. So, that is what I would do. However, you need to do what the Holy Spirit leads you to do, after prayer. Don't be afraid of whatever He leads you to do. If you act, He will ensure your actions lead to good results. He most assuredly does not want Satan to hinder your church's evangelism efforts.

I remembered something he said to us about a year ago. We asked him to hold us accountable if we ever say something scripturally vague or wrong on our website. And he said “And you do the same for me.” He respects my husband very much.
Praying this morning - time is of the essence.
Thank you.
(BTW I had edited out stuff in my post from Sunday because I felt like it was bashing him but he was going on and on about repentance and saying everything incorrect about it. The teaching video confirms that to me. It appears that some wrong teaching got to him)
Also We are more likely to send the video to him personally. Because no one in our church knows that he is about to introduce Ray Comfort except for the elders (I assume) and us when our antennae went up and we directly asked him. So we feel like it would be breaking his trust in us to give it to the whole church and cause a storm. Would be so much better if he could quietly change his mind.
Another reason to send it to him. Yes.

 

[Andiamo]

Ok, so the minute I spoke to my husband about this, he said “it’s the right thing to do.” But we did pray about this and I was reminded about Esther (not to make us all important like she was) And how she went to bat for her people and respectfully petitioned to the king. And we both got a real sense of duty. And “Speak the truth in love” and “contend for the faith.” So we wrote a humble text message that wasn’t accusing toward the Pastor or Ray but just speaking about how important this teaching is, and attached both videos. Prayed he will take the time to watch them, without distraction, and that he watches & listens with the mind of Christ. Praying if nothing else he will put the Ray Comfort stuff on hold while he prays and searches for himself.
I can’t express enough how grateful I am right now for this community here at CCF!!!

 

[Growing in Grace]

This morning I was in Galatians 5.
Good comments Eric

I suppose, to them, the crucifixion is some cosmic ritual that happened, but apart from miracles, they more or less can achieve the same level of sin suppression. Please. I have no patience for any of it, nor should any bought by the Blood Christian. It's the most lethal thing anyone could engage in. It's incomprehensibly more lethal than playing in traffic during rush hour, blindfolded.

The works based appeal that Paul condemns:

Galatians 5:1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

2 Look! I, Paul, tell you that if you have yourselves circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 And I testify again to every man who has himself circumcised, that he is obligated to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we, through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

7 You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. 9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough. 10 I have confidence in you in the Lord, that you will adopt no other view; but the one who is disturbing you will bear the punishment, whoever he is. 11 But as for me, brothers and sisters, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been eliminated. 12 I wish that those who are troubling you would even emasculate themselves.

In my life I know I've attempted to accomplish salvation by works, and I'm not proud of it (thankfully I got disciplined one day and stopped). As I revisited that effort I realized it was a weird type of pride, it was almost that I wanted to appear pious.

The Galatians were under some pressure from Jews. As I read these passages it was clear to me that Apostle Paul was the contrast to the Law keeping Jews, who were persecuting him because of the offense of the Cross.

 

[Andiamo]

Super disappointed to see that Ray Comfort preached at Calvary Chapel Chino Hills a year ago. It was on the fear of the Lord. (Didn’t watch it) I wonder if his evangelism teaching is working it’s way into Calvary Chapel. (Edit: From what I can find, it’s not in a big way )

The Fear of the Lord (Psalm 128)

Special Guest Ray Comfort shares with us a message on how we can have a healthy fear of God that causes us to depart evil and share the Gospel with a dying w...

youtu.be

 

[Andiamo]

Thanks for your prayers, no response from him yet, which is not unusual with text messages but we still feel kinda awkward.

 

[Andiamo]

WOW thanks for praying @Margery and whomever just prayed! He just now texted me…said he watched both videos(!!!) and wants to talk to us about them and about what the Lord is showing us about evangelism. Oh my gosh!
We had better be loaded for bear when we meet with him!!! Yikes!! And, thank You Lord!!!

 

[Andiamo]

Today at church he reviewed last week’s scriptures before proceeding to this week’s verses. And this time he did not connect repentance to sin at all. He stated that repentance is a change of mind, changing your mind about God and about yourself. My husband and I are blown away at what God is doing. I do believe my pastor already knew this as fact but for some reason everything came out wrong last week. Maybe he just didn’t communicate it like he wanted to. And the videos reminded him of what he actually believes.

 

[Margery]

Today at church he reviewed last week’s scriptures before proceeding to this week’s verses. And this time he did not connect repentance to sin at all. He stated that repentance is a change of mind, changing your mind about God and about yourself. My husband and I are blown away at what God is doing. I do believe my pastor already knew this as fact but for some reason everything came out wrong last week. Maybe he just didn’t communicate it like he wanted to. And the videos reminded him of what he actually believes.

That reminds me how one of our duties as Christians is to stand on guard watching out for the enemies attacks and distractions, praying for each other and encouraging each other. You did that for him, he will do it for you and the Body of Christ functions in a healthy way like that.