ADOPTION (AT THE RAPTURE): THE MOST IMPORTANT UNDER-TAUGHT DOCTRINE IN THE CHURCH

[mattfivefour]

My reaction is in line with Marjorie's and Greg's. And like them both --and probably many of the rest of you-- I'm eager to hear what PIF has to present to us. Only when I hear that in its fullness can I compare it to scripture and then I can know whether it's something I can agree with or not.

Yet, for those who are not interested in the legal mechanics of what God is doing, but only in the result: you can rest secure in the fact that you are adopted. How God has worked it all out is immaterial in terms of your security. All that really matters is that it is a done deal as far as God is concerned. So we can be secure in that knowledge.

Our hope is, as the Bible says, a sure hope ... in other words a definite, certain hope. There is absolutely no uncertainty about it. We are saved, we are forgiven, we are in the kingdom of God, we are God's children and that's all that matters. And one day we will come into the fullness of it, the moment we enter Heaven.

 

[Margery]

Something that helps me when I'm mulling over difficult to understand (yet valid and vital points of theology) is taking time to rest with the fact that I might not be comfortable with an idea just yet. And I don't have to decide right away.

For example I'm contemplating the concept of America as Babylon. Something I actually have disagreed with in the past, and may still do. But I'm taking time (months actually, and may still be pondering it when the Rapture occurs)

There are many reasons (I've pointed them out in the past) why I disagree with that view, BUT I've heard 2 excellent speakers on the subject in the past 2 years and I realized I had not thought it thru fully.

So I've put my preconceptions on the shelf for now along with my discomfort with the idea and I'm letting my mind explore the idea without agreeing with it if that makes sense.

This was the attitude of the Bereans who diligently searched the scriptures daily to see if the things Paul taught were backed up by the Word of God.

Give Hugh time to explain and remember power outages in his corner of the world are more frequent than we usually have here in North America. When he does have electricity he has his day job to do, so the answers may take some time.

 

[PaidInFull]

That link is to a calvinist church.

Do you support all five points of TULIP?

Absolutely not. There is one and only one point under consideration here, our adoption.

To quote from the article...

The doctrine of adoption is an extraordinary manifestation of God’s mercy and love to his people. Surprisingly, very little has been written on this doctrine throughout church history. Dr. D. James Kennedy comments on this: “Luther had little to say about it and Calvin ignored it almost entirely.

 

[PaidInFull]

I thought perhaps a quote might help bring more clarity on this subject of adoption by sharing what Lewis Sperry Chafer has written on the subject. He is an excellent, grace based (and acknowledging the utter Holiness of God) theologian who explains things very well. He explains a little bit about adoption in the earthly sense along with the spiritual sense and particularly look his quote in the last paragraph by Dr. C. I. Scofield. Perhaps this might be helpful. Note, I'll type out the Greek as I see and perhaps someone can help me with this? This is from Chafer's Systematic Theology series of books, volume VII, pg 9-11. All italics within these [...] and underlining is mine:



ADOPTION

1. THE USUAL MEANING. The Bible recognizes the usual meaning of the word adoption, which is the placing of one rightfully outside blood ties into the position of a legal child (not, a natural child) in the family. Though not known at first among Jews, adoption was practiced by the Egyptians. Exodus 2:10 records the adoption of Moses by Pharaoh's daughter (cf. 1 Kings 11:20). The adoption of Esther (cf. Esther 2:7, 15) demonstrates that the custom was practiced by Jews in Babylon. Greece and Rome were evidently included among those who followed this custom. The Apostle Paul, indeed, uses this term only when writing to Gentiles. He writes to such about the national placing of Israel above other peoples--" To whom pertaineth the adoption" (Rom. 9:4-5--as an adoption, but this instance bears closely upon the spiritual, New Testament use of the word. However, it is evident from Exodus 4:22; Deuteronomy 32:6; Isiah 64:8; Jeremiah 31:9; and Hosea 11:1 that Israel, though called the son of Jehovah, is a son only by birtue of decree or sovereign placing and not by virtue of natural or spiritual ties in their relation to Jehovah as a child.

2. THE NEW TESTAMENT MEANING. The spiritual use of the word adoption signifies the placing of newborn child--in point of maturity--into the position of privilege and responsibility attached to an adult son. Here an important distinction appears between two Greek words, namely, tekviov [I don't know how to greekify the greek word here so bear with me, perhaps others can change it]--used to denote little children who are under the authority of parents, tutors, and governors (cf John 13:33)--and vios--used to denote an adult son. Christ accordingly spoke of Himself as Son of man, and by employing the latter meant that He is One of full maturity. Perplexity may arise over why a born, and thus a natural, child should be adopted at all; for , as usually conceived, could add nothing to rights which are gained by natural birth. It is thus, however, that the true spiritual meaning of adoption appears. The naturally born child is by adoption advanced positionally to his majority and given at once the standing of an adult son. Since spiritual adoption occurs at the time one is saved and thus becomes a child of God, there is no childhood period recognized in the Christians experience. The one reference in 1 Corinthians 3:1 to "babes in Christ" sustains no relation to an immaturity which is due to brief experience with the Christian life; it is a reference to limitations which belong to an unspiritual or carnal state. The believer who is carnal may have been saved for many years.

In it's distinctive significance, spiritual adoption means that the one thus placed has at once all the privilege--which is that of independence from tutors and governors--and liberty of a full-grown man. The Christian is enjoined to "stand fast" in the liberty wherewith Christ has made him free and not to be "entangled again with the yoke of bondage," which is evidently a reference to the legal or merit system (Gal. 5:1). Spiritual adoptions also imposes the responsibilities belonging to full maturity. This is clear from the fact that, whatever God addresses to any believer, He addresses to all who believe. No portions of the hortatory [HORTATORY is hortative, exhortatory or to exhort] Scriptures intended for Christians are restricted to beginners in the Christian life. The same holy walk and exercise of gifts is expected from all the children of God alike. Since the Christian life is to be lived in the power of the Holy Spirit, this requirement is reasonable; for the enabling power of the Spirit is as available for one as for another. Practically, long years of experience in the Christian life will doubtless tend to skilled adaptation to that new manner of life; but those years add no more resource than is given by the Spirit from the beginning to those who are saved. The whole field of Christian responsibility is by so much related to this doctrine of adoption.

Adoption assumes a practical meaning as set forth in the Galatian and Roman Epistles. In the former it becomes a deliverance from slavery, from guardians, and from nonage; in the latter it signifies a deliverance from the flesh (cf. Rom. 8:14-17). All of this is directly due to the new, complete responsibility which full maturity imposes and to the divine plan that the believer's life is to be lived from the start in the power of the Holy Spirit.

The final placing as exalted mature sons awaits the redemption of the body, which will occur at the return of Christ (Rom. 8:23). This, too, is related to the "glorious liberty of the children [not, little children] of God" (Rom. 8:21).

Dr. C. I. Scofield presents this same definition of adoption in the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible: "Adoption (huiothesia, 'placing as a son') is not so much a word of relationship as as of position. The believer's relation to God as a child results from the new birth (John 1:12, 13), whereas adoption is the act of God whereby one already a child is, through redemption from the law, placed in the position of an adult son (Gal. 4:1-5). The indwelling Spirit gives the realization of this in the believer's present experience (Gal. 4:1-5); but the full manifestation of the believer's sonship awaits the resurrections, change, and translations of the saints, which is called 'the redemption of the body' (Rom. 8:23; 1 Thes. 4:14-17; Eph. 1:14; 1 John 3:2" (p 1250).


This is the end of the quote. So, as I'm understanding Scofield, I believe what he's succinctly said might also be what is being communicated in some of the posting here related to the subject of adoption?


It seems what is being said in the quote above is that in relationship to God, because of new birth via faith in Jesus, we are children of God now of which the Holy Spirit gives us a present realization of in the experience of our new lives here on earth. Our faith in Jesus is how we are related in a family sense. However, the full manifestation or complete results, if you will, of our adoption, while a done deal and secure, awaits us at the resurrection when our bodies will be changed.

Now, I wonder if it's at this full manifestation stage of our adoption that PaidInFull is seeing a legal component at play?

Hopefully I've not added confusion here.

You are correct, that adoption is both a present reality and a future hope for full acquisition. We already settled that in the prior discussion and thank you for the reminder as I see we are back to square one for some.

 

[PaidInFull]

Let's, for the time being, set aside any ideas of Calvinism as it is practiced today and focus on the doctrine of adoption. The Calvinist debate will smearly lead us down another path and muddy the waters. The fact is that the full doctrine of adoption does not stand on any Calvinist principle, but solely on the Word of God. And we want to examine that Word in order to discover it significance for us in this day.

So, for those who have neither the time not the inclination to read the entire lengthy article at the link PIF recommends, it's teaching can pretty much be summed up by the following short excerpt. And while the author was a Calvinist, what he is saying here is not based on any Calvinist doctrine, but simply based on Scripture.

J. I. Packer argues that the entire Christian life should be understood in terms of adoption. He writes: “Sonship must be the controlling thought – the normative category, if you like – at every point. This follows from the nature of the case, and is strikingly confirmed by the fact that our Lord’s teaching on Christian discipleship is cast in these terms” (Knowing God, p. 190). Dr. Packer carefully works his way through the Sermon on the Mount showing that the ethics and mandates for Christian living are presented in terms of a Father-child relationship. For example, Jesus said that we are to imitate our Father: “But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you in order that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. . . . Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Matt. 5:44,45, 48). Our way of life is to glorify our Father: “Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven” (Matt. 5:16). Jesus also preached that our actions are to please our Father (Matt. 6:1-18). Our giving, praying, and fasting are done to glorify and please God and not men. We are to trust God because, if we are redeemed, he is our Father: “Do not be anxious then, saying, ‘What shall we eat? or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘With what shall we clothe ourselves?’ For all these things the Gentiles eagerly seek; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things” (Matt. 6:31,32) (See: Knowing God, p. 190-193). What motivates you in your Christian life? Are you motivated by fear of punishment or by wanting to glorify, imitate, and please the God who is your spiritual Father? Do you think of your relationship with God in terms of a Father-child relationship? Do you revel in what God has done as the Apostle John did in 1 John 3:1,2 and let that be your motivation as John mentions in 1 John 3:3?​

Thank you Adrian. I am not Calvinist, thank God. Adoption is the focus.

 

[PaidInFull]

If the adoption doesn't take place until we are in Heaven, why would John say "Now we are children of God"?

"Beloved, now we are children of God;..." 1 John 3:2a

As far as my understanding based on scripture the Holy Spirit in us has sealed us with the promise of completion of our redemption when we are glorified as Jesus is, but we are His.

Complete verse:

Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
1 John 3:2

My sole desire is to help the body of Christ, not to cause confusion. You are confused because you either did not read the article, or you read it and did not understand it. It helps me to help you if you give me an honest answer.

Did you read it?

If you read it then you did not understand it. You are not the only one that is posting the same misunderstanding. Please be aware that is a perfectly normal learning process.

When I was in Bible College I was taught that we need to hear new information 7 times and preferably 7 different ways for it to sink in. It took God 65 years to complete the New Testament, there wasn't an instant download.

To help you and others I will make a post later with 11 points I have extracted as direct quotes from the article that summarizes our position here and now regarding adoption.

Blessings!

 

[PaidInFull]

Which is exactly my concern. We need to believe what the word says we are, and it clearly says we are everything it says, now

I am giving the same reply to you as to I Love God...

My sole desire is to help the body of Christ, not to cause confusion. You are confused because you either did not read the article, or you read it and did not understand it. It helps me to help you if you give me an honest answer.

Did you read it?

If you read it then you did not understand it. You are not the only one that is posting the same misunderstanding. Please be aware that is a perfectly normal learning process.

When I was in Bible College I was taught that we need to hear new information 7 times and preferably 7 different ways for it to sink in. It took God 65 years to complete the New Testament, there wasn't an instant download.

To help you and others I will make a post later with 11 points I have extracted as direct quotes from the article that summarizes our position here and now regarding adoption.

Blessings!

 

[PaidInFull]

As I've thought of this the last few days, I haven't had a problem reconciling that we're both adopted now and that there is a fuller realization of that to come. Plenty of verses for both have been supplied, so both must be true.

In the meantime, what are we left with? Faith that God will complete the process, whatever it is. Why? Because He promises to. That makes it more sure than any of us drawing our next breath. And without faith, it's impossible to please God.

Very much looking forward to PaidInFull's power being restored and where this discussion goes.

You have got it brother. BUT .... how did you get it? Here's how...

making mention of you in my prayers;17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him.18I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling...Eph.1

When I was in Bible College we were taught to pray this prayer many times every day. If the apostle Paul prayed it over the church, we need to pray it over ourselves (with the rest of the prayer of course).

I am struggling here to help believers understand what hope is - that hope is for a future promise in His calling.


23And not only that, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons and daughters, the redemption of our body.24For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees?25But if we hope for what we do not see, through perseverance we wait eagerly for it. Rom.8

 

[1LoverofGod]

My sole desire is to help the body of Christ, not to cause confusion. You are confused because you either did not read the article, or you read it and did not understand it. It helps me to help you if you give me an honest answer.

Did you read it?

If you read it then you did not understand it. You are not the only one that is posting the same misunderstanding. Please be aware that is a perfectly normal learning process.

When I was in Bible College I was taught that we need to hear new information 7 times and preferably 7 different ways for it to sink in. It took God 65 years to complete the New Testament, there wasn't an instant download.

To help you and others I will make a post later with 11 points I have extracted as direct quotes from the article that summarizes our position here and now regarding adoption.

Blessings!

I don't mean this as disrespect but I look at what The Bible says not what people have said.
I try to be a Berean.
When the Bereans heard Paul preach they searched the scriptures to see if what he was saying was so.
We're admonished to test the spirits to make sure that what we are told is from God.
I stand with The Word of God.

 

[PaidInFull]

Something that helps me when I'm mulling over difficult to understand (yet valid and vital points of theology) is taking time to rest with the fact that I might not be comfortable with an idea just yet. And I don't have to decide right away.

For example I'm contemplating the concept of America as Babylon. Something I actually have disagreed with in the past, and may still do. But I'm taking time (months actually, and may still be pondering it when the Rapture occurs)

There are many reasons (I've pointed them out in the past) why I disagree with that view, BUT I've heard 2 excellent speakers on the subject in the past 2 years and I realized I had not thought it thru fully.

So I've put my preconceptions on the shelf for now along with my discomfort with the idea and I'm letting my mind explore the idea without agreeing with it if that makes sense.

This was the attitude of the Bereans who diligently searched the scriptures daily to see if the things Paul taught were backed up by the Word of God.

Give Hugh time to explain and remember power outages in his corner of the world are more frequent than we usually have here in North America. When he does have electricity he has his day job to do, so the answers may take some time.

Thanks Marg. The reason for the loss of power is new lines being installed. I rarely get power cuts but of course when I try to post this, not only do I get a power cut but they screwed up and I will have another one coming but I don't know if it is today or not as of yet.

Without dispute, we begin as children of God, adopted as full members of God's own household when we are born again, but the Scripture says there is nothing to distinguish us from servants because we have not become of age yet. However we are fully fledged heirs of the Father, but awaiting the full privileges of mature son-ship.

Even the apostles needed time to get this clear in their heads. Peter drifted back under the law and refused to eat with gentile believers in public until Paul admonished Peter in public for the good of all. Law and Grace came into stark contrast and the Council of Jerusalem had to discuss and decide if circumcision was necessary for the gentiles to be fully fledged believers.

Initially they didn't even believe the Holy Spirit was for the gentiles for it was "understood" they were unclean and there was no logical way the Holy Spirit could indwell the unclean gentiles.

They thought John wasn't going to die and Jesus must therefore return before John died, but first of all Peter must be an old man to fulfill Jesus' prophecy.

As for myself, I began to lead, preach and teach in church exactly 50 years ago. Give me another 15 years and I will have completed the same length of time it took God to reveal the complete new Testament. If Jesus tarries and I make it for another 15 years, then I will consider myself to be coming out of the starter's blocks.

Thank you for your gracious comments. It appears I have much foundational work to put in here.

 

[1LoverofGod]

As I've thought of this the last few days, I haven't had a problem reconciling that we're both adopted now and that there is a fuller realization of that to come. Plenty of verses for both have been supplied, so both must be true.

In the meantime, what are we left with? Faith that God will complete the process, whatever it is. Why? Because He promises to. That makes it more sure than any of us drawing our next breath. And without faith, it's impossible to please God.

Very much looking forward to PaidInFull's power being restored and where this discussion goes.

Amen
"For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us"
2 Corinthians 1:20

I do pray Paidinfull gets the power situation fully restored

 

[PaidInFull]

For the sake of absolute clarity I want to summarize the article I asked you all to read. First of all, addressing Calvinism...

The doctrine of adoption is an extraordinary manifestation of God’s mercy and love to his people. Surprisingly, very little has been written on this doctrine throughout church history. Dr. D. James Kennedy comments on this: “Luther had little to say about it and Calvin ignored it almost entirely.

Now let's develop laser-like focus on what was taught about the believer's position regarding adoption the instant we believe, summarized in 11 quotes with noting added by myself, as it ought to be perfectly clear...

1) The gift of sonship to God becomes ours, not through being born, but through being born again.

ADOPTION IS THE APEX OF GOD’S MERCY AND GRACE

2) The highest privilege that can be bestowed on a person is to be adopted into God’s family. In our salvation, God not only redeems us from our sins and imputes Christ’s righteousness to us, but also adopts us into his very family.

3) In adoption, God takes us into His family and fellowship, and establishes us as His children and heirs. Closeness, affection and generosity are at the heart of the relationship. To be right with God the judge is a great thing, but to be loved and cared for by God the father is greater”

4) A person is born of God solely by the sovereign monergistic work of God, is granted faith, and as a result of the exercise of that faith is justified and adopted into God’s family.

5) God, out of his mercy and eternal plan of election, sovereignly takes a person out of the family and kingdom of Satan and places them in his family and kingdom. Colossians 1:13, 14, in speaking of God, the Father adopting us into his family, states: “For He delivered us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sin.”

6) In Adoption, God not only takes us out of Satan’s family, but as part of our salvation he changes our citizenship from Satan’s kingdom to God’s kingdom. Philippians 3:20 says, “For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. . . .”

7) Understanding that in our salvation we are adopted into God’s family and enjoy a Father-child relationship with God is foundational for Christian living. Perhaps the strongest passage in Scripture dealing with the doctrine of adoption is found in Romans 8:14-16: “For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received the spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, ‘Abba, Father!’ The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.” This passage affirms the idea that, in our salvation, we are adopted into God’s family as an act of his grace. It also affirms that the believer enjoys a close filial relationship with God as his Father. The Aramaic, “Abba” is a term of close relationship. This passage also mentions an important application of the doctrine of adoption, the fact that we are not given “a spirit of slavery leading to fear again.”

8) 1 John 3:1-3 summarizes some important truths about adoption and its relationship to Christian living: “See how great a love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called children of God; and such we are... Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we shall be. We know that, when He appears, we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him just as He is. And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.”

9) Finally, John says that the sure expectation of this full realization of being a child of God is a crucial motivating factor in Christian living. We fight against sin and apply ourselves in the things of God because of this sure hope set before us. We are motivated by what God has done and the promise of what he will do.

10) Do you think of your relationship with God in terms of a Father-child relationship? Do you revel in what God has done as the Apostle John did in 1 John 3:1,2 and let that be your motivation as John mentions in 1 John 3:3?

11) O How shall I the goodness tell/ Father, which thou to me has showed?/ That I, a child or wrath and hell,/ I should be called a child of God,/ Should know, should feel my sins forgiven,/ Blest with this antepast of heaven!” (Methodist Hymnbook #361)

(Wesley taught doctrine by using the pop songs of the day and writing glorious doctrines to these tunes so those who could not read would be filled with Scriptural Doctrinal deep truths. Wesley was not a Calvinist.)

 

[1LoverofGod]

Thanks Marg. The reason for the loss of power is new lines being installed. I rarely get power cuts but of course when I try to post this, not only do I get a power cut but they screwed up and I will have another one coming but I don't know if it is today or not as of yet.

Without dispute, we begin as children of God, adopted as full members of God's own household when we are born again, but the Scripture says there is nothing to distinguish us from servants because we have not become of age yet. However we are fully fledged heirs of the Father, but awaiting the full privileges of mature son-ship.

Even the apostles needed time to get this clear in their heads. Peter drifted back under the law and refused to eat with gentile believers in public until Paul admonished Peter in public for the good of all. Law and Grace came into stark contrast and the Council of Jerusalem had to discuss and decide if circumcision was necessary for the gentiles to be fully fledged believers.

Initially they didn't even believe the Holy Spirit was for the gentiles for it was "understood" they were unclean and there was no logical way the Holy Spirit could indwell the unclean gentiles.

They thought John wasn't going to die and Jesus must therefore return before John died, but first of all Peter must be an old man to fulfill Jesus' prophecy.

As for myself, I began to lead, preach and teach in church exactly 50 years ago. Give me another 15 years and I will have completed the same length of time it took God to reveal the complete new Testament. If Jesus tarries and I make it for another 15 years, then I will consider myself to be coming out of the starter's blocks.

Thank you for your gracious comments. It appears I have much foundational work to put in here.

I think your point falls in line with Paul's words:

"Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me." Philippians 3:12

Thank you for your contribution to this fellowship

 

[mattfivefour]

I am giving the same reply to you as to I Love God...

My sole desire is to help the body of Christ, not to cause confusion. You are confused because you either did not read the article, or you read it and did not understand it. It helps me to help you if you give me an honest answer.

Did you read it?

If you read it then you did not understand it. You are not the only one that is posting the same misunderstanding. Please be aware that is a perfectly normal learning process.

When I was in Bible College I was taught that we need to hear new information 7 times and preferably 7 different ways for it to sink in. It took God 65 years to complete the New Testament, there wasn't an instant download.

To help you and others I will make a post later with 11 points I have extracted as direct quotes from the article that summarizes our position here and now regarding adoption.

Blessings!

Brother, what everyone wants to know is the summation of your argument. You keep giving us preliminaries and underpinnings. I think once you actually give us the actual point you keep leading up to, but so far have not explained, a lot of these doubtful questions will be answered. So please, I beg you, give us the thing that occurs in heaven that banishes Satan from there forever and completes our adoption forever ... and whatever else it accomplishes there. THIS is what we want to know.

 

[1LoverofGod]

For the sake of absolute clarity I want to summarize the article I asked you all to read. First of all, addressing Calvinism...

The doctrine of adoption is an extraordinary manifestation of God’s mercy and love to his people. Surprisingly, very little has been written on this doctrine throughout church history. Dr. D. James Kennedy comments on this: “Luther had little to say about it and Calvin ignored it almost entirely.

Now let's develop laser-like focus on what was taught about the believer's position regarding adoption the instant we believe, summarized in 11 quotes with noting added by myself, as it ought to be perfectly clear...

1) The gift of sonship to God becomes ours, not through being born, but through being born again.

ADOPTION IS THE APEX OF GOD’S MERCY AND GRACE

2) The highest privilege that can be bestowed on a person is to be adopted into God’s family. In our salvation, God not only redeems us from our sins and imputes Christ’s righteousness to us, but also adopts us into his very family.

3) In adoption, God takes us into His family and fellowship, and establishes us as His children and heirs. Closeness, affection and generosity are at the heart of the relationship. To be right with God the judge is a great thing, but to be loved and cared for by God the father is greater”

4) A person is born of God solely by the sovereign monergistic work of God, is granted faith, and as a result of the exercise of that faith is justified and adopted into God’s family.

5) God, out of his mercy and eternal plan of election, sovereignly takes a person out of the family and kingdom of Satan and places them in his family and kingdom. Colossians 1:13, 14, in speaking of God, the Father adopting us into his family, states: “For He delivered us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sin.”

6) In Adoption, God not only takes us out of Satan’s family, but as part of our salvation he changes our citizenship from Satan’s kingdom to God’s kingdom. Philippians 3:20 says, “For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. . . .”

7) Understanding that in our salvation we are adopted into God’s family and enjoy a Father-child relationship with God is foundational for Christian living. Perhaps the strongest passage in Scripture dealing with the doctrine of adoption is found in Romans 8:14-16: “For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received the spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, ‘Abba, Father!’ The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.” This passage affirms the idea that, in our salvation, we are adopted into God’s family as an act of his grace. It also affirms that the believer enjoys a close filial relationship with God as his Father. The Aramaic, “Abba” is a term of close relationship. This passage also mentions an important application of the doctrine of adoption, the fact that we are not given “a spirit of slavery leading to fear again.”

8) 1 John 3:1-3 summarizes some important truths about adoption and its relationship to Christian living: “See how great a love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called children of God; and such we are... Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we shall be. We know that, when He appears, we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him just as He is. And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.”

9) Finally, John says that the sure expectation of this full realization of being a child of God is a crucial motivating factor in Christian living. We fight against sin and apply ourselves in the things of God because of this sure hope set before us. We are motivated by what God has done and the promise of what he will do.

10) Do you think of your relationship with God in terms of a Father-child relationship? Do you revel in what God has done as the Apostle John did in 1 John 3:1,2 and let that be your motivation as John mentions in 1 John 3:3?

11) O How shall I the goodness tell/ Father, which thou to me has showed?/ That I, a child or wrath and hell,/ I should be called a child of God,/ Should know, should feel my sins forgiven,/ Blest with this antepast of heaven!” (Methodist Hymnbook #361)

(Wesley taught doctrine by using the pop songs of the day and writing glorious doctrines to these tunes so those who could not read would be filled with Scriptural Doctrinal deep truths. Wesley was not a Calvinist.)

I think the confusion resulted by using the word adoption as being completed in heaven.
As far as I know there's no scripture reference to our completion being our adoption because when we are Born again we are adopted by The Father.
But if I take out the word adoption and read your comments to explain what you are getting at, then it makes sense.
What satan accusing us before God and his being ousted from heaven has to do with our being in The family of God, I have trouble understanding.
But I do know that while we are still in our fallen flesh we are in a constant spiritual battle and is why we are to keep the complete Armor of God. Ephesians 6.
But because we belong to Jesus, no one can pluck us out of His Hand. John 10:28
Blessings to you.

 

[PaidInFull]

There are two things that I expected you to grasp that is central to ADOPTION from the article I asked you to read, and the first is addressing the spiritural-cultural war that is about to manifest itself in full blown war on the saints of God by the Pope teaching we are all sons of God and governments passing of Diversity, Equity & Inclusive LAW.

"What philosophers and theologians teach in one century often becomes the worldview or perspective of the average person in the next century. This concept of the universal Fatherhood of God and brotherhood of man is a common idea today and has been the impetus behind the theology of universalism, the idea that everyone is saved in the end."...

..."Sonship to God is not, therefore, a universal status which everyone enters by natural birth, but a supernatural gift which one receives through receiving Jesus"...

..."If every person is naturally a part of God’s family, then the concept of adoption in our salvation is a meaningless term. In fact, to assume that every person is a part of God’s family apart from Christ’s work of salvation, is to cheapen the grace of God in the gospel. John Murray writes: “To substitute the message of God’s universal fatherhood for that which is constituted by redemption and adoption is to annul the gospel; it means the degradation of this highest and richest of relationships to the level of that relationship which all men sustain to God by creation. In a word, it is to deprive the gospel of its redemptive meaning. And it encourages men in the delusion that our creaturehood is the guarantee of our adoption into God’s family” (Redemption: Accomplished and Applied, p. 135, 136).

The second point which is shocking, and we should all be shocked, is that ADOPTION draws out the stark contrast between the spiritual condition of the adopted believer in Christ to those who are not adopted by God.

If this truth leaks out into the world, we are going to face violent confrontation by the sons of night.

..."The Bible clearly teaches that there is one ultimate division in mankind: those who are adopted into God’s family as a result of faith in Christ and have God as their Father and those who are outside of Christ and have the devil as their spiritual father."...

(Now go tell your unbelieving family, colleagues, friends, unbelievers in church and those in the streets that they reason they sin is because they are children of the devil with Satan as their father and see what happens. Yet the truth of ADOPTION is black and white, in darkness or in light, and it declares war on the Pope's lies and governmental demands we accept DEI.)

..."1 John 3:10-12 also shows this division in man between the children of God and the children of the devil: “By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; not as Cain, who was of the evil one, and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother’s were righteous.” Simon Kistemaker writes concerning this passage: “In this entire letter John presents our existence in terms of two categories: you are either a child of God or you are a child of the devil. John sees only absolutes: light or darkness, truth or the lie, God or the devil, life or death. For him there is no middle ground. There are no alternatives” (Commentary on 1 John in the New Testament Commentary Series, p. 304)."...

..."The above passages show that there is only one ultimate division in mankind: those who are in Christ are adopted into God’s family and belong to his kingdom and those outside of Christ are naturally a part of the devil’s family and belong to his kingdom. The concept of the universal Fatherhood of God and brotherhood of man is utterly foreign to the teaching of Scripture. The question that you must face is, to which family do I belong? Have you been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, granted faith and repentance, and been justified and adopted into God’s family as a result? There is no neutral ground."

==========================================================================================

If we preach adoption to become the children of God by the grace of God through the free gift of His Son, BUT ALSO point out the shocking truth that anyone who is listening to our preaching and not believeing is a child of the devil and Satan is their father with the absolute certainty of eternity in the lake of fire, then there is only one of two responses possible...

offence and hatred

or the fear of the Lord and fleeing to Jesus for salvation.

If we don't understand this truth and preach it, how are the lost going to hear and understand it?

I am not saying we have to preach hell and damnation all the time, for the Scripture says some are ripe and we save by compassion showing the mercy of God, but others we save by fear.

We do no person good to hide from them this terrifyint truth, without salvation, we are all children of the devil... we all have Satan as our father... and we all follow him into the terrors of the lake of fire.

The glorious truth of the gospel is that where sin abounds, no matter how great the devil's claims a lost life is, grace super abounds, whosoever comnes to Jesus He will not turn away, and all who call in the name of the Lord will be saved and instantaly adoped into the the family of God with God as their Father, Jesus as their Redeemer and the Holy Spirit as the deposit guarantee of a salvation that is both complete and yet to be completetd in the future.

The best is yet to come!

The gospel preached today often misses the essential, extremely shocking and disturbing truth that ought to leave us unable to sleep tonight until we decide if this is completely true or not. As an unbeliever, am I really and not figuratively a child of the devil? Is Satan really my father? Is that why I sin? Am I really under the wrath of God but He has paused His fury to give me a chance to repent?

The truth of being adopted by the devil is shocking, offensive, and much more terrifying than any SciFi horror movie, and the obvious question by the unbeliever is, how could this have happened? My parents are good people. I am a good person on the overall scheme of things. How can this be true?

The answer to that is as much a part of the laws of doption by God as it is by the devil and we need to understand both to understand God's planned the future for us.

 

[Matthew6:33]

It is my opinion that these concepts are just difficult for us humans to understand in general because it goes against all human logic and rationale. It is spiritual.

For instance, we are called and predestined yet we still have free will to choose. Do we choose God or did God choose us? God knew us before we were born. He knows what we will do before we do it. God chose us, but we still have a choice.

[Gen 22:10-13 NASB95] 10 Abraham stretched out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. 11 But the angel of the LORD called to him from heaven and said, "Abraham, Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am." 12 He said, "Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me." 13 Then Abraham raised his eyes and looked, and behold, behind [him] a ram caught in the thicket by his horns; and Abraham went and took the ram and offered him up for a burnt offering in the place of his son.

"Now I know?" But didn't God already know? Yes He did. But at that point in time He experienced it. Mind bending stuff.

It helps me thinking about how God is outside of time. God sees my past, present, and future all at the same time. Yet there is one MOMENT in time that we make our choice and God "knows" past, present, and future what that choice means. So the moment we believe we are adopted but the adoption isn't "realized" (within our finite realm of time) until a certain point yet God sees it past, present, and future. This is why it is a spiritual thing.

Don't know if that makes sense lol.

 

[mattfivefour]

There are two things that I expected you to grasp that is central to ADOPTION from the article I asked you to read, and the first is addressing the spiritural-cultural war that is about to manifest itself in full blown war on the saints of God by the Pope teaching we are all sons of God and governments passing of Diversity, Equity & Inclusive LAW.

"What philosophers and theologians teach in one century often becomes the worldview or perspective of the average person in the next century. This concept of the universal Fatherhood of God and brotherhood of man is a common idea today and has been the impetus behind the theology of universalism, the idea that everyone is saved in the end."...

..."Sonship to God is not, therefore, a universal status which everyone enters by natural birth, but a supernatural gift which one receives through receiving Jesus"...

..."If every person is naturally a part of God’s family, then the concept of adoption in our salvation is a meaningless term. In fact, to assume that every person is a part of God’s family apart from Christ’s work of salvation, is to cheapen the grace of God in the gospel. John Murray writes: “To substitute the message of God’s universal fatherhood for that which is constituted by redemption and adoption is to annul the gospel; it means the degradation of this highest and richest of relationships to the level of that relationship which all men sustain to God by creation. In a word, it is to deprive the gospel of its redemptive meaning. And it encourages men in the delusion that our creaturehood is the guarantee of our adoption into God’s family” (Redemption: Accomplished and Applied, p. 135, 136).

The second point which is shocking, and we should all be shocked, is that ADOPTION draws out the stark contrast between the spiritual condition of the adopted believer in Christ to those who are not adopted by God.

If this truth leaks out into the world, we are going to face violent confrontation by the sons of night.

..."The Bible clearly teaches that there is one ultimate division in mankind: those who are adopted into God’s family as a result of faith in Christ and have God as their Father and those who are outside of Christ and have the devil as their spiritual father."...

(Now go tell your unbelieving family, colleagues, friends, unbelievers in church and those in the streets that they reason they sin is because they are children of the devil with Satan as their father and see what happens. Yet the truth of ADOPTION is black and white, in darkness or in light, and it declares war on the Pope's lies and governmental demands we accept DEI.)

..."1 John 3:10-12 also shows this division in man between the children of God and the children of the devil: “By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; not as Cain, who was of the evil one, and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother’s were righteous.” Simon Kistemaker writes concerning this passage: “In this entire letter John presents our existence in terms of two categories: you are either a child of God or you are a child of the devil. John sees only absolutes: light or darkness, truth or the lie, God or the devil, life or death. For him there is no middle ground. There are no alternatives” (Commentary on 1 John in the New Testament Commentary Series, p. 304)."...

..."The above passages show that there is only one ultimate division in mankind: those who are in Christ are adopted into God’s family and belong to his kingdom and those outside of Christ are naturally a part of the devil’s family and belong to his kingdom. The concept of the universal Fatherhood of God and brotherhood of man is utterly foreign to the teaching of Scripture. The question that you must face is, to which family do I belong? Have you been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, granted faith and repentance, and been justified and adopted into God’s family as a result? There is no neutral ground."

==========================================================================================

If we preach adoption to become the children of God by the grace of God through the free gift of His Son, BUT ALSO point out the shocking truth that anyone who is listening to our preaching and not believeing is a child of the devil and Satan is their father with the absolute certainty of eternity in the lake of fire, then there is only one of two responses possible...

offence and hatred

or the fear of the Lord and fleeing to Jesus for salvation.

If we don't understand this truth and preach it, how are the lost going to hear and understand it?

I am not saying we have to preach hell and damnation all the time, for the Scripture says some are ripe and we save by compassion showing the mercy of God, but others we save by fear.

We do no person good to hide from them this terrifyint truth, without salvation, we are all children of the devil... we all have Satan as our father... and we all follow him into the terrors of the lake of fire.

The glorious truth of the gospel is that where sin abounds, no matter how great the devil's claims a lost life is, grace super abounds, whosoever comnes to Jesus He will not turn away, and all who call in the name of the Lord will be saved and instantaly adoped into the the family of God with God as their Father, Jesus as their Redeemer and the Holy Spirit as the deposit guarantee of a salvation that is both complete and yet to be completetd in the future.

The best is yet to come!

The gospel preached today often misses the essential, extremely shocking and disturbing truth that ought to leave us unable to sleep tonight until we decide if this is completely true or not. As an unbeliever, am I really and not figuratively a child of the devil? Is Satan really my father? Is that why I sin? Am I really under the wrath of God but He has paused His fury to give me a chance to repent?

The truth of being adopted by the devil is shocking, offensive, and much more terrifying than any SciFi horror movie, and the obvious question by the unbeliever is, how could this have happened? My parents are good people. I am a good person on the overall scheme of things. How can this be true?

The answer to that is as much a part of the laws of doption by God as it is by the devil and we need to understand both to understand God's planned the future for us.

Well, brother, I agree with most of what you write above. But I don't see why it is necessary for people to understand the laws of adoption by God and the laws of adoption by Satan. Surely, all that is necessary is that we accept the fact that we are adopted into the family of God by faith in Jesus Christ alone. There is nothing else for us to do.

So, to this point I've heard nothing that fulfills your promise to tell us what it is that God does in Heaven at the Rapture that bars Satan from Heaven forever after and somehow completes our adoption. This is what I am really looking to hear, and the reason I've been allowing this thread and the previous one to continue so long. I know you to be a godly man and you offered us teaching that would strengthen us in our faith. So far, I have not heard anything new; nor do I have the sense I'm any closer to hearing the substance of the teaching you promised in your very first post on adoption.

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

There are two things that I expected you to grasp that is central to ADOPTION from the article I asked you to read, and the first is addressing the spiritural-cultural war that is about to manifest itself in full blown war on the saints of God by the Pope teaching we are all sons of God and governments passing of Diversity, Equity & Inclusive LAW.

"What philosophers and theologians teach in one century often becomes the worldview or perspective of the average person in the next century. This concept of the universal Fatherhood of God and brotherhood of man is a common idea today and has been the impetus behind the theology of universalism, the idea that everyone is saved in the end."...

..."Sonship to God is not, therefore, a universal status which everyone enters by natural birth, but a supernatural gift which one receives through receiving Jesus"...

..."If every person is naturally a part of God’s family, then the concept of adoption in our salvation is a meaningless term. In fact, to assume that every person is a part of God’s family apart from Christ’s work of salvation, is to cheapen the grace of God in the gospel. John Murray writes: “To substitute the message of God’s universal fatherhood for that which is constituted by redemption and adoption is to annul the gospel; it means the degradation of this highest and richest of relationships to the level of that relationship which all men sustain to God by creation. In a word, it is to deprive the gospel of its redemptive meaning. And it encourages men in the delusion that our creaturehood is the guarantee of our adoption into God’s family” (Redemption: Accomplished and Applied, p. 135, 136).

The second point which is shocking, and we should all be shocked, is that ADOPTION draws out the stark contrast between the spiritual condition of the adopted believer in Christ to those who are not adopted by God.

If this truth leaks out into the world, we are going to face violent confrontation by the sons of night.

..."The Bible clearly teaches that there is one ultimate division in mankind: those who are adopted into God’s family as a result of faith in Christ and have God as their Father and those who are outside of Christ and have the devil as their spiritual father."...

(Now go tell your unbelieving family, colleagues, friends, unbelievers in church and those in the streets that they reason they sin is because they are children of the devil with Satan as their father and see what happens. Yet the truth of ADOPTION is black and white, in darkness or in light, and it declares war on the Pope's lies and governmental demands we accept DEI.)

..."1 John 3:10-12 also shows this division in man between the children of God and the children of the devil: “By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; not as Cain, who was of the evil one, and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother’s were righteous.” Simon Kistemaker writes concerning this passage: “In this entire letter John presents our existence in terms of two categories: you are either a child of God or you are a child of the devil. John sees only absolutes: light or darkness, truth or the lie, God or the devil, life or death. For him there is no middle ground. There are no alternatives” (Commentary on 1 John in the New Testament Commentary Series, p. 304)."...

..."The above passages show that there is only one ultimate division in mankind: those who are in Christ are adopted into God’s family and belong to his kingdom and those outside of Christ are naturally a part of the devil’s family and belong to his kingdom. The concept of the universal Fatherhood of God and brotherhood of man is utterly foreign to the teaching of Scripture. The question that you must face is, to which family do I belong? Have you been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, granted faith and repentance, and been justified and adopted into God’s family as a result? There is no neutral ground."

==========================================================================================

If we preach adoption to become the children of God by the grace of God through the free gift of His Son, BUT ALSO point out the shocking truth that anyone who is listening to our preaching and not believeing is a child of the devil and Satan is their father with the absolute certainty of eternity in the lake of fire, then there is only one of two responses possible...

offence and hatred

or the fear of the Lord and fleeing to Jesus for salvation.

If we don't understand this truth and preach it, how are the lost going to hear and understand it?

I am not saying we have to preach hell and damnation all the time, for the Scripture says some are ripe and we save by compassion showing the mercy of God, but others we save by fear.

We do no person good to hide from them this terrifyint truth, without salvation, we are all children of the devil... we all have Satan as our father... and we all follow him into the terrors of the lake of fire.

The glorious truth of the gospel is that where sin abounds, no matter how great the devil's claims a lost life is, grace super abounds, whosoever comnes to Jesus He will not turn away, and all who call in the name of the Lord will be saved and instantaly adoped into the the family of God with God as their Father, Jesus as their Redeemer and the Holy Spirit as the deposit guarantee of a salvation that is both complete and yet to be completetd in the future.

The best is yet to come!

The gospel preached today often misses the essential, extremely shocking and disturbing truth that ought to leave us unable to sleep tonight until we decide if this is completely true or not. As an unbeliever, am I really and not figuratively a child of the devil? Is Satan really my father? Is that why I sin? Am I really under the wrath of God but He has paused His fury to give me a chance to repent?

The truth of being adopted by the devil is shocking, offensive, and much more terrifying than any SciFi horror movie, and the obvious question by the unbeliever is, how could this have happened? My parents are good people. I am a good person on the overall scheme of things. How can this be true?

The answer to that is as much a part of the laws of doption by God as it is by the devil and we need to understand both to understand God's planned the future for us.

WIth all due respect, i don't buy into the argument that we are all children of the devil if we don't believe in Jesus.

The whole point of Satan being bound for a 1000 years is to prove that it's mans own heart that is evil and not because of Satan or being his adopted children.

 

[PaidInFull]

Brother, what everyone wants to know is the summation of your argument. You keep giving us preliminaries and underpinnings. I think once you actually give us the actual point you keep leading up to, but so far have not explained, a lot of these doubtful questions will be answered. So please, I beg you, give us the thing that occurs in heaven that banishes Satan from there forever and completes our adoption forever ... and whatever else it accomplishes there. THIS is what we want to know.

Adrian, please allow me to address the subject in the way I want to at the speed I want to for the reasons stated below.

You are at liberty to come back at a later date and catch up.

If I do as you request, then I am guaranteed to cause more confusion and this is not how any doctrine is taught. I shall be addressing matters of law and without that foundation no superstructure can be built.

In the former thread I joined you posted regarding end time events...

"But we don't need to know anything other than this: The Lord God Almighty is in full control. Our lives are united with Christ's; our futures are secure; we are merely pilgrims in this world, journeying toward our eternal homeland under the protection of the Almighty One and performing the role of His ambassadors as we go."

This is not what Jesus taught.

Yes, as a condensed version it is true, but I had to give a lengthy post to show what Jesus commanded us to be on watching for and what is unfolding in the world. I had to respond with ...

I am not 'taking issue' with Adrian regarding this quote, but rather offering my experience. Does God expect us to know the difference between the last days that began with Jesus, and the time of the end that began with 1948, and the seal of Daniel being opened when the 4th Kingdom rises. I think so, because the news is laden with proofs the God of the Bible has outlined everything that is going to happen.

Then Adrian you responded with ...

Brother, after an initial read I basically agree with your entire post.

Following that, you and I had a lengthy back and forth on whether adoption was complete, or if we are now in a state of HOPE for what is to come.

Initially you disagreed, and then you changed your mind.

Unless there is something wrong with my Internet connection, all that discussion has been deleted. That means anyone new to this thread doesn't have that information.

If all my posts from that point on have been deleted, may I ask why? I am not saying they have been - I am saying I can't see them. It looks like the whole back and forth has been deleted and arriving at the conclusion is missing.

That means I am back to square one here with people confused about adoption being both completed and yet to come when you ended up agreeing that adoption is both a present reality and yet to be fulfilled in the future.

I had Chris deleting my posts and I hope I am not back to that scenario again. Please, I am not accusing you of deleting my posts... not yet. They are missing on my PC and I need to quote you.

Did you or another admin delete them? These are my posts. If they were deleted can I have an explanation please?

Already this thread has gone backwards into the discussion you and I had reached a conclusion on and I can't direct anyone to our discussion, so I have to cover old ground.

Having said all that, it is impossible for me to jump ahead as you wish me to do without leaving many sheep confused, and no doubt you and I will once again spend many posts going back and forward to get this right.

This is your home, and I am your guest. If I have permission to post at my speed then let me do so and don't delete any of my posts please, especially when I am responding to you... if that has happened , I need to know it has and why our conversations were deleted.

I have been teaching for exactly 50 years, and I build at my speed and attempt to bring everyone with me. Your speed is fine for you, but it is pastor superspeed for many here if I accelerate to where you want me to be at, and I can't do that for the building will collapse. Already it is collapsing and it seems I can't referendce our discussions.

Can you please accept my speed and let me know if my posts have been deleted and if so why and why was I not informed? Again I am not saying they were, I just can't see them.

The last post I remember seeing before I shut down my PC was :This thread is WOW! It too along with other posts are missing and I am confused. Is it a server error? Deleted posts? A bug in my connection?