ADOPTION (AT THE RAPTURE): THE MOST IMPORTANT UNDER-TAUGHT DOCTRINE IN THE CHURCH

[PaidInFull]

For those new to our discussion where I introduced this topic in a rapture thread, we hit a hurdle because I was assuming we all understood that ADOPTION is predestined before the world began, that is is present now the moment we are born again, and that it climaxes in heaven before the Father. It was the misunderstanding some held that our adoption is/and yet is not complete for it has another greater stage to come, before our Daddy in heaven that threw a curve ball. Eventually we agreed that there is indeed a future aspect to adoption and so moving on, things in heaven is mostly what this thread is about .

Therefore I shall have to re-cover some old ground again for the sake of new readers, but first of all we need to be on the same page as far as the legal framework of ADOPTION on earth is concerned. When it comes to adoption and the rapture and why I believe this is the reason the devil is kicked out of heaven, we need to dig into the law that the gives the devil legal standing and legal merit to accuse us day and night before God in defiance of the cross and blood of Jesus, and the devil's total defeat, the prison doors bring flung open, the prisoners delivered from the power of darkness and translated into the kingdom of God's dear Son, and the all the associated victories Jesus won for us.

Why is the devil still accusing us before God in heaven. Why does it suddenly end in war one day and why that day? Why does adoption prove the post-trib doctrine is impossible and illegal? How is adoption connected to a much better understanding of the timing of the wrath of God so we can deal with the pre-wrath argument?

There is going to be a lot of ground to cover and I don't know everything so questions are welcome provided, they are in good grace and with one obligation... you must read a link I am giving before you continue to read this thread. We must have a good understanding of the legal framework of adoption on earth so we see how important the legalities are in heaven.

Adoption takes a wrecking ball to the devils kingdom. It supercharges the gospel and it destroys the Pope's message that we are all God's children, which will be a major theme in the days ahead. The fraternity the Pope is building of "One Light - Many Lamps" to justify all religions and the phrase "All People of Goodwill" which is a direct quote from the Great Incantation in the occult and these deceptions are utterly ruined by the preaching of adoption.

When we get to heaven, ADOPTION is an even bigger wrecking ball!

I can't post any more now as I am facing a lengthy power-cut today, here's my deal for you. If you don;'t read this link so we are all on the same page, then please don;'t continue to read on. I don't want to be answering questions from confused people.

I don't think I am allowed to post links so go to your search engine and type in this heading and I shall continue tomorrow. Blessings all.

The Apex of God’s Grace: The Doctrine of Adoption​

 

[Andy C]

For those new to our discussion where I introduced this topic in a rapture thread, we hit a hurdle because I was assuming we all understood that ADOPTION is predestined before the world began, that is is present now the moment we are born again, and that it climaxes in heaven before the Father. It was the misunderstanding some held that our adoption is/and yet is not complete for it has another greater stage to come, before our Daddy in heaven that threw a curve ball. Eventually we agreed that there is indeed a future aspect to adoption and so moving on, things in heaven is mostly what this thread is about .

Therefore I shall have to re-cover some old ground again for the sake of new readers, but first of all we need to be on the same page as far as the legal framework of ADOPTION on earth is concerned. When it comes to adoption and the rapture and why I believe this is the reason the devil is kicked out of heaven, we need to dig into the law that the gives the devil legal standing and legal merit to accuse us day and night before God in defiance of the cross and blood of Jesus, and the devil's total defeat, the prison doors bring flung open, the prisoners delivered from the power of darkness and translated into the kingdom of God's dear Son, and the all the associated victories Jesus won for us.

Why is the devil still accusing us before God in heaven. Why does it suddenly end in war one day and why that day? Why does adoption prove the post-trib doctrine is impossible and illegal? How is adoption connected to a much better understanding of the timing of the wrath of God so we can deal with the pre-wrath argument?

There is going to be a lot of ground to cover and I don't know everything so questions are welcome provided, they are in good grace and with one obligation... you must read a link I am giving before you continue to read this thread. We must have a good understanding of the legal framework of adoption on earth so we see how important the legalities are in heaven.

Adoption takes a wrecking ball to the devils kingdom. It supercharges the gospel and it destroys the Pope's message that we are all God's children, which will be a major theme in the days ahead. The fraternity the Pope is building of "One Light - Many Lamps" to justify all religions and the phrase "All People of Goodwill" which is a direct quote from the Great Incantation in the occult and these deceptions are utterly ruined by the preaching of adoption.

When we get to heaven, ADOPTION is an even bigger wrecking ball!

I can't post any more now as I am facing a lengthy power-cut today, here's my deal for you. If you don;'t read this link so we are all on the same page, then please don;'t continue to read on. I don't want to be answering questions from confused people.

I don't think I am allowed to post links so go to your search engine and type in this heading and I shall continue tomorrow. Blessings all.

The Apex of God’s Grace: The Doctrine of Adoption​

That link is to a calvinist church.

Do you support all five points of TULIP?

 

[Tall Timbers]

I can't post any more now as I am facing a lengthy power-cut today, here's my deal for you. If you don;'t read this link so we are all on the same page, then please don;'t continue to read on. I don't want to be answering questions from confused people.

I don't think I am allowed to post links so go to your search engine and type in this heading and I shall continue tomorrow. Blessings all.

You are allowed to post links unless it is to something unsavory.

 

[mattfivefour]

Let's, for the time being, set aside any ideas of Calvinism as it is practiced today and focus on the doctrine of adoption. The Calvinist debate will smearly lead us down another path and muddy the waters. The fact is that the full doctrine of adoption does not stand on any Calvinist principle, but solely on the Word of God. And we want to examine that Word in order to discover it significance for us in this day.

So, for those who have neither the time not the inclination to read the entire lengthy article at the link PIF recommends, it's teaching can pretty much be summed up by the following short excerpt. And while the author was a Calvinist, what he is saying here is not based on any Calvinist doctrine, but simply based on Scripture.

J. I. Packer argues that the entire Christian life should be understood in terms of adoption. He writes: “Sonship must be the controlling thought – the normative category, if you like – at every point. This follows from the nature of the case, and is strikingly confirmed by the fact that our Lord’s teaching on Christian discipleship is cast in these terms” (Knowing God, p. 190). Dr. Packer carefully works his way through the Sermon on the Mount showing that the ethics and mandates for Christian living are presented in terms of a Father-child relationship. For example, Jesus said that we are to imitate our Father: “But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you in order that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. . . . Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Matt. 5:44,45, 48). Our way of life is to glorify our Father: “Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven” (Matt. 5:16). Jesus also preached that our actions are to please our Father (Matt. 6:1-18). Our giving, praying, and fasting are done to glorify and please God and not men. We are to trust God because, if we are redeemed, he is our Father: “Do not be anxious then, saying, ‘What shall we eat? or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘With what shall we clothe ourselves?’ For all these things the Gentiles eagerly seek; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things” (Matt. 6:31,32) (See: Knowing God, p. 190-193). What motivates you in your Christian life? Are you motivated by fear of punishment or by wanting to glorify, imitate, and please the God who is your spiritual Father? Do you think of your relationship with God in terms of a Father-child relationship? Do you revel in what God has done as the Apostle John did in 1 John 3:1,2 and let that be your motivation as John mentions in 1 John 3:3?​

 

[Everlasting Life]

I thought perhaps a quote might help bring more clarity on this subject of adoption by sharing what Lewis Sperry Chafer has written on the subject. He is an excellent, grace based (and acknowledging the utter Holiness of God) theologian who explains things very well. He explains a little bit about adoption in the earthly sense along with the spiritual sense and particularly look his quote in the last paragraph by Dr. C. I. Scofield. Perhaps this might be helpful. Note, I'll type out the Greek as I see and perhaps someone can help me with this? This is from Chafer's Systematic Theology series of books, volume VII, pg 9-11. All italics within these [...] and underlining is mine:



ADOPTION

1. THE USUAL MEANING. The Bible recognizes the usual meaning of the word adoption, which is the placing of one rightfully outside blood ties into the position of a legal child (not, a natural child) in the family. Though not known at first among Jews, adoption was practiced by the Egyptians. Exodus 2:10 records the adoption of Moses by Pharaoh's daughter (cf. 1 Kings 11:20). The adoption of Esther (cf. Esther 2:7, 15) demonstrates that the custom was practiced by Jews in Babylon. Greece and Rome were evidently included among those who followed this custom. The Apostle Paul, indeed, uses this term only when writing to Gentiles. He writes to such about the national placing of Israel above other peoples--" To whom pertaineth the adoption" (Rom. 9:4-5--as an adoption, but this instance bears closely upon the spiritual, New Testament use of the word. However, it is evident from Exodus 4:22; Deuteronomy 32:6; Isiah 64:8; Jeremiah 31:9; and Hosea 11:1 that Israel, though called the son of Jehovah, is a son only by birtue of decree or sovereign placing and not by virtue of natural or spiritual ties in their relation to Jehovah as a child.

2. THE NEW TESTAMENT MEANING. The spiritual use of the word adoption signifies the placing of newborn child--in point of maturity--into the position of privilege and responsibility attached to an adult son. Here an important distinction appears between two Greek words, namely, tekviov [I don't know how to greekify the greek word here so bear with me, perhaps others can change it]--used to denote little children who are under the authority of parents, tutors, and governors (cf John 13:33)--and vios--used to denote an adult son. Christ accordingly spoke of Himself as Son of man, and by employing the latter meant that He is One of full maturity. Perplexity may arise over why a born, and thus a natural, child should be adopted at all; for , as usually conceived, could add nothing to rights which are gained by natural birth. It is thus, however, that the true spiritual meaning of adoption appears. The naturally born child is by adoption advanced positionally to his majority and given at once the standing of an adult son. Since spiritual adoption occurs at the time one is saved and thus becomes a child of God, there is no childhood period recognized in the Christians experience. The one reference in 1 Corinthians 3:1 to "babes in Christ" sustains no relation to an immaturity which is due to brief experience with the Christian life; it is a reference to limitations which belong to an unspiritual or carnal state. The believer who is carnal may have been saved for many years.

In it's distinctive significance, spiritual adoption means that the one thus placed has at once all the privilege--which is that of independence from tutors and governors--and liberty of a full-grown man. The Christian is enjoined to "stand fast" in the liberty wherewith Christ has made him free and not to be "entangled again with the yoke of bondage," which is evidently a reference to the legal or merit system (Gal. 5:1). Spiritual adoptions also imposes the responsibilities belonging to full maturity. This is clear from the fact that, whatever God addresses to any believer, He addresses to all who believe. No portions of the hortatory [HORTATORY is hortative, exhortatory or to exhort] Scriptures intended for Christians are restricted to beginners in the Christian life. The same holy walk and exercise of gifts is expected from all the children of God alike. Since the Christian life is to be lived in the power of the Holy Spirit, this requirement is reasonable; for the enabling power of the Spirit is as available for one as for another. Practically, long years of experience in the Christian life will doubtless tend to skilled adaptation to that new manner of life; but those years add no more resource than is given by the Spirit from the beginning to those who are saved. The whole field of Christian responsibility is by so much related to this doctrine of adoption.

Adoption assumes a practical meaning as set forth in the Galatian and Roman Epistles. In the former it becomes a deliverance from slavery, from guardians, and from nonage; in the latter it signifies a deliverance from the flesh (cf. Rom. 8:14-17). All of this is directly due to the new, complete responsibility which full maturity imposes and to the divine plan that the believer's life is to be lived from the start in the power of the Holy Spirit.

The final placing as exalted mature sons awaits the redemption of the body, which will occur at the return of Christ (Rom. 8:23). This, too, is related to the "glorious liberty of the children [not, little children] of God" (Rom. 8:21).

Dr. C. I. Scofield presents this same definition of adoption in the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible: "Adoption (huiothesia, 'placing as a son') is not so much a word of relationship as as of position. The believer's relation to God as a child results from the new birth (John 1:12, 13), whereas adoption is the act of God whereby one already a child is, through redemption from the law, placed in the position of an adult son (Gal. 4:1-5). The indwelling Spirit gives the realization of this in the believer's present experience (Gal. 4:1-5); but the full manifestation of the believer's sonship awaits the resurrections, change, and translations of the saints, which is called 'the redemption of the body' (Rom. 8:23; 1 Thes. 4:14-17; Eph. 1:14; 1 John 3:2" (p 1250).


This is the end of the quote. So, as I'm understanding Scofield, I believe what he's succinctly said might also be what is being communicated in some of the posting here related to the subject of adoption?


It seems what is being said in the quote above is that in relationship to God, because of new birth via faith in Jesus, we are children of God now of which the Holy Spirit gives us a present realization of in the experience of our new lives here on earth. Our faith in Jesus is how we are related in a family sense. However, the full manifestation or complete results, if you will, of our adoption, while a done deal and secure, awaits us at the resurrection when our bodies will be changed.

Now, I wonder if it's at this full manifestation stage of our adoption that PaidInFull is seeing a legal component at play?

Hopefully I've not added confusion here.

 

[1LoverofGod]

If the adoption doesn't take place until we are in Heaven, why would John say "Now we are children of God"?

"Beloved, now we are children of God;..." 1 John 3:2a

As far as my understanding based on scripture the Holy Spirit in us has sealed us with the promise of completion of our redemption when we are glorified as Jesus is, but we are His.

Complete verse:

Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
1 John 3:2

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

If the adoption doesn't take place until we are in Heaven, why would John say "Now we are children of God"?

"Beloved, now we are children of God;..." 1 John 3:2a

As far as my understanding based on scripture the Holy Spirit in us has sealed us with the promise of completion of our redemption when we are glorified as Jesus is, but we are His.

Complete verse:

Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
1 John 3:2

Agree, if there'sany sort of adoption we are awaiting, it' our glorified bodies at the rapture.

 

[1LoverofGod]

For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you RECEIVED the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”
Romans 8:15

"For you ARE all SONS of God through faith in Christ Jesus"
Galatians 3:26

These two verses show a present tense that we ARE children of God.

 

[Andiamo]

6And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” 7Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Galatians 4

 

[1LoverofGod]

6And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” 7Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Galatians 4

Amen

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you RECEIVED the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”
Romans 8:15

"For you ARE all SONS of God through faith in Christ Jesus"
Galatians 3:26

These two verses show a present tense that we ARE children of God.

Agree, my blessed hope is to meet our Lord in the air and as you can defnitely relate to a new glorified body.

Any other discussions about this adoption topic is just sowing doubt and confusion for me personally.

 

[Andiamo]

I don’t get this distinction. Is it the same kind of distinction one could possibly make as to the fact that we are now “seated with Christ in Heavenly places?”

To me, it doesn’t make much difference. The word says I’m seated, to me that means I’m seated, now. The word says I’m a firstborn son and heir, to me that means, now.

What I mean is…I realize there will be a further completeness and experience of our identity and position after the rapture. But for the purpose of maintaining my identity and navigating this world, I am considering myself complete now which is what the word seems to be encouraging us to do.

I mean, if someone wanted to take this further, they could say we aren’t fully redeemed until later. Which is partially true, because we haven’t experienced the redemption of our bodies yet. But why would I want to think of the glass half full regarding this?

Or, someone could say we aren’t fully “sealed” yet. There are actually many things regarding our identity in Christ that someone could say isn’t “finished” yet, with this kind of train of thought.

 

[Andiamo]

ny other discussions about this adoption topic is just sowing doubt and confusion for me personally

Which is exactly my concern. We need to believe what the word says we are, and it clearly says we are everything it says, now

 

[1LoverofGod]

I don’t get this distinction. Is it the same kind of distinction one could possibly make as to the fact that we are now “seated with Christ in Heavenly places?”

To me, it doesn’t make much difference. The word says I’m seated, to me that means I’m seated, now. The word says I’m a firstborn son and heir, to me that means, now.

What I mean is…I realize there will be a further completeness and experience of our identity and position after the rapture. But for the purpose of maintaining my identity and navigating this world, I am considering myself complete now which is what the word seems to be encouraging us to do.

I mean, if someone wanted to take this further, they could say we aren’t fully redeemed until later. Which is partially true, because we haven’t experienced the redemption of our bodies yet. But why would I want to think of the glass half full regarding this?

Or, someone could say we aren’t fully “sealed” yet. There are actually many things regarding our identity in Christ that someone could say isn’t “finished” yet, with this kind of train of thought.

We Are children of God.
The only reason that it's not complete is that we need to have our glorified bodies to receive the promise of our inheritance and 1 Thessalonians 4:15 explains that we who are still alive at the time of the rapture cannot precede those who have died in Christ. Their spirits that are in the presence of God must be reunited with their bodies in the resurrection.
Then we all together will meet The Lord in the air and complete the marriage with The Bridegroom Jesus.
I hope that made sense.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

If you ever saw the movie Before the Wrath it explains the process of the marriage between the church and Jesus. There's a waiting period before the bride is taken to The Father's House.
That's what it's like with us right now.

 

[Andiamo]

We Are children of God.
The only reason that it's not complete is that we need to have our glorified bodies to receive the promise of our inheritance and 1 Thessalonians 4:15 explains that we who are still alive at the time of the rapture cannot precede those who have died in Christ. Their spirits that are in the presence of God must be reunited with their bodies in the resurrection.
Then we all together will meet The Lord in the air and complete the marriage with The Bridegroom Jesus.
I hope that made sense.

That makes sense.
Another thought:
A child adopted overseas, but still hasn’t been brought home to the adopting parent’s home, is still legally their child when they go before the judge in that country and the papers are signed. It just requires one more legal act by another judge when they return to their home country. Which really is just a technicality. But they were never less adopted before then.

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

That makes sense.
Another thought:
A child adopted overseas, but still hasn’t been brought home to the adopting parent’s home, is still legally their child when they go before the judge in that country and the papers are signed. It just requires one more legal act by another judge when they return to their home country. Which really is just a technicality. But they were never less adopted before then.

Maybe this is the point Paid in full is trying to communicate?

 

[Andiamo]

Maybe this is the point Paid in full is trying to communicate?

I’m thinking maybe that’s what it is. And here he has a power outage and can’t even reply in this thread right now. But it’s how he is saying “when we get to Heaven” that is throwing me.
After the rapture is our moving-in day, not our adoption day.

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

I’m thinking maybe that’s what it is. And here he has a power outage and can’t even reply in this thread right now. But it’s how he is saying “adoption after the rapture” that is throwing me.
After the rapture is our moving-in day, not our adoption day.

Yeah that's what is putting me off as well

 

[Greg]

As I've thought of this the last few days, I haven't had a problem reconciling that we're both adopted now and that there is a fuller realization of that to come. Plenty of verses for both have been supplied, so both must be true.

In the meantime, what are we left with? Faith that God will complete the process, whatever it is. Why? Because He promises to. That makes it more sure than any of us drawing our next breath. And without faith, it's impossible to please God.

Very much looking forward to PaidInFull's power being restored and where this discussion goes.

 

[Margery]

chiming in late but like Greg, I don't have a problem with the both now and yet future aspects of adoption.

We see that in several areas

One of which is Christ's rule and reign. He rules and reigns over all at the right hand of the Father but He allows our freedom of choice to choose Him or reject Him.

He has defeated death and hell but we exist in mortal bodies that are not yet glorified. Yet death and hell have no power over us. Death for us is the passage into the presence of the Lord where we await our glorified bodies that will be given to us at the Rapture.

He owns the universe, and yet allows the enemy a short time here on earth to do his thing, deceiving and destroying humanity, while Christ redeemed us, and all we have to do is accept his price as sufficient for us, PAID for all yet only a precious few turn to Him. But that is temporary. It will come to a close at the end of the Millennial Reign of Christ when God allows one more rebellion and a final extinction.

Salvation and Sanctification. One is once and done for all time, the other is an ongoing process that will be finished when we graduate to heaven.

Prophecy often has a now element and a yet future element. Sometimes it's a type that points to the future or sometimes it's a future prophecy with a small part that plays out in the time shortly after that prophecy was given.

God is not limited by time but He set time up and works with us within time itself to gather for Himself a people across time from Creation to the last day of the Millennium.