Why does the Bible say Amnon loved Tamar?

[Amethyst]

In a fully biblical love, Adam would have first loved/obeyed God.

I have never understood why scripture says that Amnon loved Tamar, when clearly, he did not. Not by 1 Corinthians 13 definition anyway.


2 Sam 13:1-2 In the course of time, Amnon son of David fell in love with Tamar, the beautiful sister of Absalom son of David. Amnon became so obsessed with his sister Tamar that he made himself ill.

 

[Goodboy]

I have never understood why scripture says that Amnon loved Tamar, when clearly, he did not. Not by 1 Corinthians 13 definition anyway.


2 Sam 13:1-2 In the course of time, Amnon son of David fell in love with Tamar, the beautiful sister of Absalom son of David. Amnon became so obsessed with his sister Tamar that he made himself ill.

There are different types of love and the context helps us understand that. I would not have the same type of love for my wife as I would for my friend. With my friend it is brotherly love.

Notice that 2 Samuel 13:1-2 says that Amnon was "in love" which is more like passion. While I can say I love my friend, I would never say that I am in love with him.

Hope that helps!

 

[Amethyst]

Hope that helps!

No it doesn't. He raped her and then immediately deserted and 'despised' her to be an outcast the rest of her life. In lust, more like.
Maybe love by our worldly deifnition.
But going by Hol's point, how is that the bibles definition of love.

I guess we could call Adam and Eve, Romeo and Juliet if one was to insist this is what it relates to.

 

[Goodboy]

No it doesn't. He raped her and then immediately deserted and 'despised' her to be an outcast the rest of her life. In lust, more like.
Maybe love by our worldly deifnition.

Let me try again...

True biblical love never fails, so I would agree that Amnon did not love her with biblical love. However being "in love" with someone can change and you can call it lust if you like but either way it is not the same as biblical love. Sadly, most people today do not have biblical love for even for their spouse, which is why we have divorce.

 

[Amethyst]

Let me try again...

True biblical love never fails, so I would agree that Amnon did not love her with biblical love. However being "in love" with someone can change and you can call it lust if you like but either way it is not the same as biblical love. Sadly, most people today do not have biblical love for even for their spouse, which is why we have divorce.

The point I was making is that God himself (through narration) says that Amnon 'loved' Tamar.
Something I will never understand in light of His teachings in the gospels.
But clearly, scripture states it plain as day that it was love.

 

[mattfivefour]

This is a very interesting topic. And one I think has relevance to understanding human behavior today. Unfortunately I don't have time to give my perspective based on scripture as I'm just heading out to a big belated Thanksgiving dinner combined with a celebration of life. I will try to find time to post a response tonight.

 

[Work4Peanuts]

This is a very interesting topic. And one I think has relevance to understanding human behavior today. Unfortunately I don't have time to give my perspective based on scripture as I'm just heading out to a big belated Thanksgiving dinner combined with a celebration of life. I will try to find time to post a response tonight.

Looking forward to hearing your response!

 

[Tall Timbers]

The point I was making is that God himself (through narration) says that Amnon 'loved' Tamar.
Something I will never understand in light of His teachings in the gospels.
But clearly, scripture states it plain as day that it was love.

I wonder if maybe the original language means something a little different. I've wondered about this as well. By my way of thinking it almost seems twisted to say Amnon loved Tamar. He was obsessed with her in a way that might suggest mental illness.

 

[Margery]

Another angle is the way Jonadab son of Shimea King David's brother suggests the method of sin to Amnon. This is Amnon and Tamar's first cousin. The same passage points out that he is cunning, or as we might call it- sly. KJV calls him subtil. (old term we now call subtle) but in KJV English carries a negative connotation. Subtil like the Serpent in the Garden.

He is friends with Amnon. Instead of counselling Amnon to avoid his half sister, and avoid temptation he stirs the pot and gives Amnon a ready made plan. Really satanic if you look at it.

The key is the words for love which are all one word in English so it's not helpful. Greek has 8 different words to describe different types of love and Hebrew has 4.

the one used is ahab, Strongs H157
'âhab 'âhêb

aw-hab', aw-habe'

A primitive root; to have affection for (sexually or otherwise): - (be-) love (-d, -ly, -r), like, friend.

Like our word for love it can be an intense sexual feeling, or it can be an intense like for a brand of coffee. The meaning of it depends on context. The overarching meaning is that it is intense, overwhelming. I got that from several other sources when I googled the Hebrew word.

It was so overwhelming to Amnon that he was "vexed" which is the word here AND HERE'S WHERE I think the CRAZY comes in. This guy is mentally ill. He has a violent emotion that he can't control. Something is wrong.

tsârar

tsaw-rar'

A primitive root; to cramp, literally or figuratively, transitively or intransitively: - adversary, (be in) afflict (-ion), besiege, bind (up), (be in, bring) distress, enemy, narrower, oppress, pangs, shut up, be in a strait (trouble), vex.


and his friend Jonadab notices - Jonadab is described as
châkâm

khaw-kawm'

From H2449; wise, (that is, intelligent, skilful or artful): - cunning (man), subtil, ([un-]), wise ([hearted], man).

and the sentence Jonadab uses to describe Amnon is "weak, dangling" from day to day.



Since the passage explains that once Amnon raped his half sister he was overcome by an opposite feeling- hatred it confirms that the guy had a few screws loose in there.

That word for hate is Strongs H8130

śânê'

saw-nay'

A primitive root; to hate (personally): - enemy, foe, (be) hate (-ful, -r), odious, X utterly.



Taken as a whole what the Hebrew is saying- translated love means an overwhelming attraction to something or someone. It is not a word to describe love as much as it describes intensity.

So if we remove our word for it as "love" and look at the intensity, we see in context with the rest of the passage it's describing an evil madness that is overcoming Amnon, and that his friend and cousin Jonadab being "subtil" which is another interesting term. I think it's used to describe the serpent in Genesis.

Taken altogether this is not love, it's obsession, and it's egged on by Jonadab and carried out by Amnon who immediately flips to the opposite emotion of hatred.

From being overwhelmed by attraction to Tamar he is disgusted by her presence and sees her as an enemy.

Descent into madness. No love there.

 

[Margery]

here is one of the sources for that word for love used in that passage ahav or ahab

Hebrew Word for Love: 4 Biblical & Modern Words to Know

What is the Hebrew word for love? Discover four words (ahava, hesed, racham, & dod), plus a few Greek words, that are all found in the Bible.

firmisrael.org

Another source, stated that in Hebrew, up until the later times in history, love wasn't the romantic attachment that we see it as. Love is expressed as a covenant, or as an action not so much as a feeling. Romantic love didn't enter into the marriage contract that was arranged by the parents. One source explained the differences between that contracted love- fulfilling a contract like Jacob for Leah while his love for Rachel was the intense form of love.

All sources point out that it isn't sexual love in or out of marriage, but it includes the intense love God feels for us (that He expresses with action), the love between close friends (nothing sexual at all) that causes them to enter into a covenant (David and Jonathan) and in modern Hebrew it can mean you really really like that brand of coffee.

Intensity rather than specific type of feeling.

 

[Tall Timbers]

From being overwhelmed by attraction to Tamar he is disgusted by her presence and sees her as an enemy.

Excellent contribution, Margery, thank you. Now when I read that passage I'll have a better understanding of the true context rather than being vexed by the word "love".

I'm thinking that after the heinous act that he loathed himself but blamed Tamar so transferred that loathing to her, blaming her so as to justify his heinous act and lighten the load of guilt that must have come with it. We humans are experts at justifying our sins. Until we come to the foot of the Cross.

 

[Goodboy]

I wonder if maybe the original language means something a little different. I've wondered about this as well. By my way of thinking it almost seems twisted to say Amnon loved Tamar. He was obsessed with her in a way that might suggest mental illness.

I believe that the problem may be that we are talking about how LOVE is used in 2 Samuel 13:1 of the Hebrew Old Testament with the definition given to us by Paul in 1 Corinthians 13:4 through 13:7 of the Greek New Testament.

I believe the love that Amnon had was a feeling. The love that Paul speaks of is a state of mind which Christians should have for everyone. We are expected to even love our enemies

Luke 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

 

[Margery]

I believe that the problem may be that we are talking about how LOVE is used in 2 Samuel 13:1 of the Hebrew Old Testament with the definition given to us by Paul in 1 Corinthians 13:4 through 13:7 of the Greek New Testament.

I believe the love that Amnon had was a feeling. The love that Paul speaks of is a state of mind which Christians should have for everyone. We are expected to even love our enemies

Luke 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Well that love ahav, ahava, or ahab that Amnon had is the same word the OT uses for God loving His people.

And Luke is the Greek Agape love- a selfless love.

In one sense they are the same but the Hebrew term has a far wider range of love. Everything from sexual love (usually in the Greek as eros) to brotherly love (Greek phileo) and it includes Agape love as well. If you translate the term, the context tells you whether it's eros, phileo or Agape.

So they both Ahava and Agape are love, but Ahava is about all love expressed as action and intensity while Agape is about selfless love.

Here's one of the sources I looked up: Hebrew Word Study: Ahavah My emphasis here: Notice the lack of emotion.

One thing that Ahava has is the concept of zero "feeling" and 100% action. It is a love expressed by an action without the necessity of a feeling.

Love. The English term has many meanings. In modern thought love is an emotion that can be turned on and off like a light switch. The story is told of a young man who told his father at breakfast one morning that he was going to get married.

"How do you know you're ready to get married?" asked the father. "Are you in love?"

"I sure am," said the son. "How do you know you're in love?" asked the father.

"Last night as I was kissing my girlfriend good-night, her dog bit me and I didn't feel the pain until I got home."



Love or "ahava" in the Hebraic mind is very different in today's culture. In the Hebrew, love is connected directly with action and obedience. Strong's Exhaustive Dictionary defines ahava as "to have affection, sexually or otherwise, love, like, to befriend, to be intimate." It brings to mind the idea of longing for or breathing for another. Hebraically ahava is a verb and a noun, it is an act of doing. Ahava is not just a feeling. To get a clear understanding of ahava, let's examine the Hebrew word itself and learn how to love Hebraically.



First, most Hebrew words can be broken down to a three-consonant root word that contains the essence of the word's meaning. The root word of ahava is "ahav." The term ahav in Hebrew means, "to give." True ahava, true love, is more concerned about giving than receiving. Being the center of someone's attention isn't love. And love isn't about getting some feeling or fix. Ahava is about giving devotion and time. Giving is the vehicle of love. YHWH so loved the world that He GAVE His only Son. Meaningful relationships have mutual giving. Love may focus on receiving, but ahava is all about giving. There is a difference. Consider that the Hebrew word "ahava" is not an emotion but an action. It is not something that happens "to you" but a condition that you create when you give. You don't "fall" in love - you give love!


So getting back to the comparison between the love of Amnon for Tamar and the selfless love in Luke

It's actually the same love. Ahava expresses the intensity. But it can also mean Agape style selfless love and Ahava expresses an action not a feeling. So it's not about the emotion that Amnon felt

but rather the intensity, and inappropriateness of that "love" which he expressed in a sinful action of raping his half sister. In the Hebrew the emotion isn't the problem, it's the intensity and the sinful nature that he expresses in that ahava.

 

[Amethyst]

thank you for your studies, Marg

 

[Tall Timbers]

"Last night as I was kissing my girlfriend good-night, her dog bit me and I didn't feel the pain until I got home."

That's good enough for me!

 

[Tall Timbers]

thank you for your studies, Marg

She sure has a wonderful way of laying things out for us, doesn't she? What a gift that we keep receiving from Christ through Margery!

 

[Goodboy]

H157
'âhab 'âhêb
aw-hab', aw-habe'
A primitive root; to have affection for (sexually or otherwise): - (be-) love (-d, -ly, -r), like, friend.

Well as one can see the Hebrew definition of love above used in 2 Samuel 13:1 is to have affection for.

 

[Margery]

H157
'âhab 'âhêb
aw-hab', aw-habe'
A primitive root; to have affection for (sexually or otherwise): - (be-) love (-d, -ly, -r), like, friend.

Well as one can see the Hebrew definition of love above used in 2 Samuel 13:1 is to have affection for.

the difference between the way we see love- in English as an emotion and the way it exists in Hebrew - as an action is different.

The song that Don Francisco sang about in one of his songs "love is not a feeling, it's an act of the will" perfectly expresses the Hebrew way of looking at love.

The love of God for us is expressed thru Jesus on the Cross (the point of Don's song). It wasn't a feeling that held Him there, but an act of His divine will to express His love towards us that while we were yet sinners He died for us.

when we talk about love we usually mean a feeling, something inside us, a feeling about someone or something. I love my boyfriend, my wife, my dog, my country, my brand of coffee. It is subjective, it's inside us.

In Hebrew it's said the same but it's now a verb. Love is something we do towards the one we love. We enter into covenant, we drink that brand of coffee, we pet the dog, we train our child. Love is a verb, an action taken.

 

[Andy C]

the difference between the way we see love- in English as an emotion and the way it exists in Hebrew - as an action is different.

The song that Don Francisco sang about in one of his songs "love is not a feeling, it's an act of the will" perfectly expresses the Hebrew way of looking at love.

The love of God for us is expressed thru Jesus on the Cross (the point of Don's song). It wasn't a feeling that held Him there, but an act of His divine will to express His love towards us that while we were yet sinners He died for us.

when we talk about love we usually mean a feeling, something inside us, a feeling about someone or something. I love my boyfriend, my wife, my dog, my country, my brand of coffee. It is subjective, it's inside us.

In Hebrew it's said the same but it's now a verb. Love is something we do towards the one we love. We enter into covenant, we drink that brand of coffee, we pet the dog, we train our child.

I became distracted at “love my dog”….

You should be a lawyer because you present your case well.

 

[Amethyst]

You should be a lawyer

Nooo Margery is not one to suffer fools