Why did Adam allow Eve to eat the forbidden fruit?

[Work4Peanuts]

I guess the question I have is: why is this topic so important to you? You've brought it up several times. Each time we speculate the same things. It could be any number of reasons from curiosity to weakness of will (which could still exist in someone perfect), but the Bible doesn't specifically state why, and anything we come up with is just that: speculation.

Why is it so important to you whether Adam did it because of love? Does that justify anything to you?

 

[Goodboy]

It seems he was in selfish mode and wanted to explore how being independent of God by eating the fruit would make him a god.

Whoops! I forgot to respond to your last sentence.

Eating the fruit would not make Adam or Eve a God. Adam was not deceived, which means he knew he would not become a God by eating the fruit and knew he would die. So I don't see anything Adam would have to gain by eating the fruit and he knew that. Eve would have not eaten the fruit either if she was not deceived.

 

[mattfivefour]

Again I will say the point of this thread is to discuss why we think that Adam ate the forbidden fruit. I gave my opinion, I am interested in yours.

Maybe you should start another thread if you want to debate about love.

I have moved the Amnon / Tamar posts to a new thread-- Why does the Bible say Amnon loved Tamar?

 

[Hol]

we cannot compare Adam to ourselves as Adam was perfect and did not have a sin nature.

Ah, no. Adam was tempted/tested and failed.

Adam was not deceived, which means he knew he would not become a God by eating the fruit and knew he would die.

You are only assuming that Adam understood he didn’t have a chance to become a god. He was being tested. When we are tested we might be be presented two choices. We are naive that one is deadly.

 

[Goodboy]

I guess the question I have is: why is this topic so important to you? You've brought it up several times. Each time we speculate the same things. It could be any number of reasons from curiosity to weakness of will (which could still exist in someone perfect), but the Bible doesn't specifically state why, and anything we come up with is just that: speculation.

Why is it so important to you whether Adam did it because of love? Does that justify anything to you?

I answered that at the beginning of this thread but I will say it again. People have asked me that question over the years and I would like to have a good answer for them. I have yet to hear a good answer other than mine and I thought someone else might have one.

 

[Hol]

I have moved the Amnon / Tamar posts to a new thread-- Why does the Bible say Amnon loved Tamar?

Honestly, it’s relevant to this thread.

 

[Work4Peanuts]

I answered that at the beginning of this thread but I will say it again. People have asked me that question over the years and I would like to have a good answer for them. I have yet to hear a good answer other than mine and I thought someone else might have one.

My question for you is why do you care about what I decide to post? No one is forcing you to read it. You knew what the subject was based on the title?

Well, you've obviously made up your mind, and there's nothing to be said to convince you otherwise.

You are right that I don't have to read it. Good day.

 

[Goodboy]

Ah, no. Adam was tempted/tested and failed.


You are only assuming that Adam understood he didn’t have a chance to become a god. He was being tested. When we are tested we might be be presented two choices. We are naive that one is deadly.

Is is a fact that Adam did not have a sin nature like we have. We received that from Adam because of his sin.

Adam (who was not deceived) knew the fruit was deadly as God told him.

God Bless!

 

[Goodboy]

Well, you've obviously made up your mind, and there's nothing to be said to convince you otherwise.

You are right that I don't have to read it. Good day.

And a good day to you!

 

[Andy C]

Deleted, delayed action on my loose personal filter ….

 

[Hol]

Is is a fact that Adam did not have a sin nature like we have.

Before he sinned he did not have a sin nature. He was never perfect (in this life, but I believe he is now in glory).

How could he be tested? Isn’t mature character tied to loyalty, love, obedience? What was he lacking that made him fail?

He didn’t seem to obey like Jesus, David, Daniel, Joseph, Job, etc. Many humans are commended for their trust and love for God who fail, only a few who almost perfectly obey. Only the Last Adam obeyed selflessly and in love. Adam was without a sin nature so why didn’t he love/obey God?

 

[Ronnie]

Not interested in going back and forth with you but I will respond this last time.

Is is a fact that Adam did not have a sin nature like we have. We received that from Adam because of his sin.

Adam (who was not deceived) knew the fruit was deadly as God told him.

I cannot stop you from posting but I will no longer respond to you regarding this subject.

God Bless!

I agree with you that Adam did’t have a sin nature, we least not before the fall.

 

[Tall Timbers]

Here's some thoughts I have after reading through this thread. These are Moderator thoughts.

When a person starts a thread here, that person might have a desire to keep it very focused on the topic or question presented. It is very normal and acceptable though for others to share their thoughts that might come as a result of reading the content of the thread.

It really isn't appropriate to direct other members to respond to something in a specific way as we allow a little more freedom here. The audience is our entire membership and a large number of visitors. Sometimes when I quote part of a post and then add my thoughts, I'm not even directly responding to the member I quoted, but am sharing the thoughts with that bigger audience... what I quoted was just the seed that grew into the thoughts I want to share.

Sometimes the most interesting things that result in a thread are ones that the thread originator had never considered.

If a post is way off topic, the best option is to report the post and ask that it be removed or moved. If the Moderation team agrees with the report, then action will be taken.

 

[Margery]

.....

Sometimes the most interesting things that result in a thread are ones that the thread originator had never considered.

...

AMEN, some of the threads I've grown to love were ones I was puzzled by in the beginning, but the thoughts expressed by the various members in the discussion and the rabbit trails we went on became so valuable.

 

[Amethyst]

It really isn't appropriate to direct other members to respond to something in a specific way

It can cause some to not respond or contribute to a thread at all.

 

[Margery]

Before he sinned he did not have a sin nature. He was never perfect (in this life, but I believe he is now in glory).

How could he be tested? Isn’t mature character tied to loyalty, love, obedience? What was he lacking that made him fail?

He didn’t seem to obey like Jesus, David, Daniel, Joseph, Job, etc. Many humans are commended for their trust and love for God who fail, only a few who almost perfectly obey. Only the Last Adam obeyed selflessly and in love. Adam was without a sin nature so why didn’t he love/obey God?

That brings up an interesting point

Because the angels who fell, following Satan who fell- they were created perfect. Lucifer was perfect until sin was found in him. His heart- his pride led him to sin.

Adam was sinless the same way the angels were, created without sin.

But what is the first commandment?

You shall have no other gods before Me

Satan became a god in his own heart- Isaiah 14:12-15 has the 5 I Will statements.

"“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.
14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”"

And what does the fruit mean? Genesis 3 tells us here

4Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.

5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.


Both Satan and Adam were created perfect. Both sinned. Both chose to put someone above God.

Satan put himself above God.
Adam put his own desires (whether to please or protect or even placate Eve, or simply for the fruit to make him like God) above God.

Both meant they were desiring to be as God. Putting themselves in God's place.

The sin is idolatry. In both cases self came before God.

Does God create sin in either one? NO. He did create the angelic realm and human beings with free will. So they were perfect, but they had a will. The question was whether they would yield that will to God.

His test which Jesus passed (on one of the other threads on this topic I think) was whether or not His sinless perfect creations would pass the test and put Him first.

Satan fell, a number of the angels fell, Adam fell.

When Adam fell all humanity that came from him fell, and the Creation which he was created to rule over fell too. God had a plan before it all happened. He knew.

This means that the fall and our Redemption in Christ was something God took care of before anything came into being.

God's grace meant that He used the seed of the woman which was to come to bring about the Redemption that the original woman made necessary.

 

[Batman]

Mankind cannot resist sin and sooner or later Adam would have sinned even if he hadn't chose to a sin path with Eve's fruit consumption, etc.

 

[Margery]

Mankind cannot resist sin and sooner or later Adam would have sinned even if he hadn't chose to a sin path with Eve's fruit consumption, etc.

Well not really, because at that point, before the fall Adam could have resisted. Otherwise it wasn't a fair choice if God made him unable to resist sin.

Adam was created with free will. Once he fell, his nature became a sin nature, which all of Adam's seed hold. But before the fall if he had passed the test, there may never have been another test.

Think of it this way. Satan tempted Jesus in the Wilderness. After that Jesus carries on His ministry straight to the Cross without failure. But God allows Satan to tempt Jesus.

After the Fall- all of us are subject to sin. Only Jesus, virgin born (the seed of the woman, therefore not of Adam's seed) was able to remain sinless.

 

[Margery]

So one final point on the fall.

In the beginning, Adam is created without sin, and with free will and a test arises. He fails. But he blames Eve and Eve blames the Serpent.

In the Millennium, humanity will be given a final test- without Satan's interference, will they or won't they choose to obey God putting HIM first?

and the answer is.... Some will, many won't put God first. There are little clues scattered here and there. If nations don't go up to celebrate Tabernacles, they don't get rain till they do, some people die as children of 100 (which sounds like the lifespans from before the flood are back and sin is not tolerated.

After 1000 years of perfect rule, perfect conditions and no Satan--humankind still chooses self, sin, rebellion over serving God. Proving that we are still sinners (until we are in our glorified form) and subject to sin even without the devil around to blame it on.

All 7000 years of history will have a harvest of those who love God and want to obey Him in spite of their sin nature. In other words, the people of God from every dispensation will be proven to love God and want Him while the sinners will prove the opposite. The devil has been a tool in God's Hands all along, to test and purify a people who actively choose God in spite of their sin nature.

At the end Satan is set loose and here's the story in Revelation

7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

That final rebellion is put down. The Great White Throne Judgment is set up and this is what happens

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

and then this

Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

What began in the Garden will finally be fixed and out of it God brings forth HIS people and He will dwell with us. The old order of things is passed away.

 

[Ronnie]

Here's some thoughts I have after reading through this thread. These are Moderator thoughts.

When a person starts a thread here, that person might have a desire to keep it very focused on the topic or question presented. It is very normal and acceptable though for others to share their thoughts that might come as a result of reading the content of the thread.

It really isn't appropriate to direct other members to respond to something in a specific way as we allow a little more freedom here. The audience is our entire membership and a large number of visitors. Sometimes when I quote part of a post and then add my thoughts, I'm not even directly responding to the member I quoted, but am sharing the thoughts with that bigger audience... what I quoted was just the seed that grew into the thoughts I want to share.

Sometimes the most interesting things that result in a thread are ones that the thread originator had never considered.

If a post is way off topic, the best option is to report the post and ask that it be removed or moved. If the Moderation team agrees with the report, then action will be taken.

So, did I do good, bad or somewhere in the middle?