What Will We Face Prior to the Rapture?

[Ghoti Ichthus]

We won't have to face God's wrath (the Tribulation), that much is certain. But the reason believers have suffered throughout the centuries is due to man's wrath. ANd wicked humankind has always sought to lash out at its' Creator.

We've suffered because of satan, first and foremost. But yeah, also due to the fallen, sinful nature of man.

 

[Andy C]

We study eschatology with much interest because we want to know what's coming and we want to understand what's happening in the world around us. The remnant of Believers who believe correctly that the Rapture will occur at some point before the antichrist is revealed, the antichrist is revealed when he makes a 7 year covenant with Israel which marks the beginning of the 7 year period known as Tribulation, and Jesus Christ returns at the end of Tribulation after Israel nationally repents; those Believers are in a position to understand the insane things that are happening in the world today. They're able to watch the machinations of the world being pushed into a global govmint system. Will this one world govmint exist prior to the Rapture?

The Bible tells us that the Rapture occurs at some point before the beginning of Tribulation. There are several Scripture passages that are relevant to the timing of the Rapture, but I'll quote just Rev 3:10 here: "Because you did keep the word of my patience, I also will keep you from the hour of trial, that hour which is to come upon the whole world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." That hour, of course, is the Tribulation period.

So, what may the Church see before it is raptured? Clearly, the Church may experience everything that occurs prior to the beginning of Tribulation. The answer to that question is found in Daniel 7:23-27, where the timeline of a few things are laid out for us.

It appears that the order of things to come is a one world govmint will be officially established, followed by 10 kingdoms or Regions w/ govmints. After the OWG is established and the 10 regions identified, another king will rise up (the antichrist) after the 10. This one, the antichrist will subdue 3 of the 10 kings in order to firm up dominion over the entire world.

So:

1st: OWG
2nd: Heads (kings) over 10 regions
3rd: antichrist becomes head of the OWG
4th: war to consolidate power over the 10 regions (3 kings subdued)

Daniel 7:23-27

23 “Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it. 24 As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. 26 But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.’

Now I'm looking in Footsteps of the Messiah because I want to see what Arnold has to say about these verses.

(v. 23) On page 35 he indicates that the fourth kingdom devours (or rules) over the whole earth, something that no previous kingdom has ever achieved. For those previous 3 kingdoms, much of the earth wasn't even known.

(v. 23-24) On page 125-127 He calls the development of the OWG the 5th birth pang leading up to Tribulation. Right now the world is divided up into the western and eastern powers. Arnold expects the eastern powers to collapse, facilitating the move to the OWG. The exact form of government or how it is achieved, isn't known, but it is for sure that it will come to pass. He says the 6th birth pang is the division of the OWG into 10 kingdoms with a ruler for each one. Beginning before Tribulation, the 10 kingdom stage will continue into the middle of Tribulation. Following the division of the world into 10 kingdoms, the antichrist will begin his rise to power. 2 Thes 2:1-3 indicates the antichrist will be revealed at some point after the 10 kingdoms are established. Arnold calls this the 7th birth pang before Tribulation. Because Tribulation begins with the signing of the seven-year covenant between Israel and the antichrist, it is necessary for the antichrist to have sufficient political power to sign such a covenant.

(v. 24) On page 244-245 Arnold seems to indicate that the antichrist's gaining political control over the world could take some time. Rev 17:12-13 is useful to estimate the chronology of when the 3 kings will be put down, and it doesn't appear to be towards the beginning of Tribulation or before Tribulation begins. Arnold says that the antichrist eventually subdues the entire world politically with the exception of Jordan.

It is possible then that the Church could see the formation of the OWG in whatever form it ultimately takes, and the division of the world into 10 kingdoms before we are raptured, but the rapture is imminent and can happen anytime between now and prior to the official beginning of Tribulation.

Given that we only know that the Rapture occurs before Tribulation begins, and we don’t know how long of a gap in time there will be between the Rapture and the beginning of Tribulation, we can’t know for sure how much the Church will see with regards to the development of the One World Govmint.

Additionally, we don’t know for how long the One World Govmint will exist prior to the world being divided up into 10 regions ostensibly ruled by 10 kings. So, there is at least the possibilty that the Church could be here under a One World Govmint for quite some time... or no time at all.

What we do know and can understand from current events in the world is that there are many peoples and organizations making a great effort to establish a sovereign global govmint, and that their efforts will likely lead to the end times One World Govmint.

Additionally, we see the world mocking the natural laws that our Creator gave us. We see the world increasingly at war with their Creator. We see the Church increasingly villified along with the Word of God. It seems very much that we are nearing the end of this era.

How much the Church sees and how much the Church is persecuted globally before it is Raptured is unknown, but we know that it is possible that the Church will be here to witness the formation of a sovereign One World Govmint along with its division into 10 Kingdoms.

Should we, the Body of Christ, worry about what we might face? No. Firstly, God did not give us a spirit of fear (2 Timothy 1:7), and secondly, if/when we find our individual selves actively persecuted, know this: “When you are brought before synagogues, rulers and authorities, do not worry about how you will defend yourselves or what you will say, for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say.” (Luke 12:11-12) The Holy Spirit will both comfort you and provide you with any needed words. Maranatha!

Good post brother.

I cant imagine any event other than the rapture that would cause all the countries in the world, especially the super powers to give up their sovereignty to a OWG. But, as you said, we cant know for sure.

 

[1LoverofGod]

So, it appears Arnold Fruchtenbaum believes the antichrist may possibly be revealed prior to the Rapture. Am I wrong or does this seem to be at odds with 2 Thessalonians 2:8?

I don't think the appearing of the Antichrist necessarily means he's revealed.
I'm with the thinking that when Antichrist confirms the covenant, Israel won't know he's the Antichrist at first.
The first seal only means the Antichrist will come on the scene with a false peace and conquer without conventional weapons, but with diplomacy.
Nevertheless, the Seals are part of the Tribulation, the 70th week of Daniel

It's when the abomination of desolation takes place and Antichrist turns on Israel that the Jews will see who he really is, the "revealing" of the Antichrist.

I still believe the church will be Raptured before the opening of the Seals. Because Revelation 6:16 says the events taking place by the horseman riding is the wrath of the Lamb

We're not appointed to God's Wrath

 

[1LoverofGod]

So, it appears Arnold Fruchtenbaum believes the antichrist may possibly be revealed prior to the Rapture. Am I wrong or does this seem to be at odds with 2 Thessalonians 2:8?

I'd like to make an expansion to my earlier comment about the revealing of Antichrist to better explain my view..
I've analysed the Word reveal.

Let's first examine the definition of reveal...

WordReference Random House Learner's Dictionary of American English © 2023
re•veal1 /rɪˈvil/ v.

1. to make known;
   disclose;
   divulge:[~ + object]to reveal the secret about his past.[~ + that clause]It was revealed today that campaign contributions exceeded legal limits.
2. to exhibit something that was hidden:[~ + object]He pulled back his sleeve and revealed the scar on his arm.

So, I look at this Word reveal and I conclude that in reference to Antichrist, for him to be revealed would be something about him will be "uncovered" or "exposed" that has been hidden and unsuspecting of him.

When Antichrist confirms the covenant with the many of Daniel 9:27 and it coincides with the opening of the first seal, the coming of Antichrist, my understanding is this covenant with many which involves Israel is likely a false peace covenant and Israel will go along with it because Israel would not know who this world leader really is.

27Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
Daniel 9:27

"....Then he will turn back and vent his fury against the holy covenant. He will return and show favor to those who forsake the holy covenant.

31 “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation. 32 With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him."
Daniel 11:30-31

So it indicates in the beginning The Jews will not suspect the true identity of this leaders who makes the peace covenant with them.

Israel unknowingly will actually be making a covenant with death which they later find out.

"Your covenant with death will be annulled, And your agreement with Sheol will not stand; When the overflowing scourge passes through, Then you will be trampled down by it."
Isaiah 28:18

Examining the book of Revelation it's not until the mid point that Israel will discover who Antichrist is because he turns on Israel and seeks to kill the Jews and is why in Revelation 12:6 an angel will send Israel to the mountains for safety for 1,260 days.

To me revealing of Antichrist wouldn't take place until he breaks that covenant and turns on Israel to kill them, in the middle of the seven, or mid point of the Tribulation.

This doesn't mean that the church has to go through any part of the Tribulation before Antichrist is revealed.

The church will be Raptured before the start of the Tribulation and Still be before the revealing of Antichrist.

Many eschatology teachers believe there may be a gap between the Rapture and the Tribulation anyway, but in my opinion the rider of the white horse wouldn't have to mean he's revealed, but just that he comes on the scene, but by diplomacy and authority that's given to him by the ten kings kingdom

. 11 "The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.
12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast."
Revelation 17:12-13

It's agreed by many Bible scholars that the book of Revelation is not in Chronological order so this would explain why the first seal appearing of Antichrist is in chapter 6 and his being give power and authority is in chapter 17, and yet in chapter 13 is the Mark of the Beast to worship Antichrist.

Sorry for such a lengthy explanation but I wanted to make as clear as possible why I don't see the opening of the first seal necessarily being the revealing of Antichrist, rather it's just him coming on the scene and later is revealed when The Jews realize who he is when he desecrates the temple with the abomination of desolation and Antichrist turns on them for resisting him, Daniel 11:31.

Again, the Rapture still occurs before he's revealed but before the breaking of the first seal because we "are not appointed to Wrath" and the seals are the wrath of The Lamb,

"And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"
Revelation 6:16

"For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ"
1 Thessalonians 5:9

And I think it could be possible we may see the ten kings form the One World government because Antichrist isn't given authority until the three of the ten kings have fallen and he rises as the "little horn"

8I "was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words."
Daniel 7:8

But then, the Rapture is imminent and could happen today

 

[Tall Timbers]

So, I look at this Word reveal and I conclude that in reference to Antichrist, for him to be revealed would be something about him will be "uncovered" or "exposed" that has been hidden and unsuspecting of him.

Many have taken the position your espousing. The simple reason that I see his reveal at the signing/affirming of the covenant with Israel is because from the Word we know it is the antichrist that will do this, thus for the first time then it will be possible to say "so and so is the antichrist", and to be able to say so definitively for those walking the earth who know what to look for.

What you, and others are describing as his reveal around the mid-point of Tribulation I see more as the beginning of awakening in Israel. It'll take a few more years before Israel finally nationally repents.

To unbelievers, including Israelites, the antichrist may never be known as the "antichrist", but as the leader of the world, like him or not. It's Tribulation saints who may have the understanding to recognize the anti-christ, and they'll be able to know who he is at the signing/affirming of the covenant. I do suspect that access to the Word of God will become increasingly difficult in those days so, but for the ministry of the 144,000 and the angel and the 2 witnesses, most would probably remain in the dark.

 

[1LoverofGod]

Many have taken the position your espousing. The simple reason that I see his reveal at the signing/affirming of the covenant with Israel is because from the Word we know it is the antichrist that will do this, thus for the first time then it will be possible to say "so and so is the antichrist", and to be able to say so definitively for those walking the earth who know what to look for.

What you, and others are describing as his reveal around the mid-point of Tribulation I see more as the beginning of awakening in Israel. It'll take a few more years before Israel finally nationally repents.

To unbelievers, including Israelites, the antichrist may never be known as the "antichrist", but as the leader of the world, like him or not. It's Tribulation saints who may have the understanding to recognize the anti-christ, and they'll be able to know who he is at the signing/affirming of the covenant. I do suspect that access to the Word of God will become increasingly difficult in those days so, but for the ministry of the 144,000 and the angel and the 2 witnesses, most would probably remain in the dark.

I agree. Those who had heard The Word of God and probably heard about the signs that identify the Antichrist by scripture would not be deceived, but as we know "many will be deceived" and fall into a "delusion to believe the lie".
I think with the exception of the marked 144,000 and two witnesses who will be preaching under Divine direction, many Jews will still be with their "partially hardened hearts ", and be deceived, until they repent and turn back to God.

But I agree that there will be some who will know, and those Jews who sign that covenant may also know but because of their hearts not being with God will do it anyway to sign the covenant of death.

I made my assessment just going by what defines the Word reveal and the truth won't hit the Jews until Antichrist turns on them to kill them.

 

[1LoverofGod]

Many have taken the position your espousing. The simple reason that I see his reveal at the signing/affirming of the covenant with Israel is because from the Word we know it is the antichrist that will do this, thus for the first time then it will be possible to say "so and so is the antichrist", and to be able to say so definitively for those walking the earth who know what to look for.

What you, and others are describing as his reveal around the mid-point of Tribulation I see more as the beginning of awakening in Israel. It'll take a few more years before Israel finally nationally repents.

To unbelievers, including Israelites, the antichrist may never be known as the "antichrist", but as the leader of the world, like him or not. It's Tribulation saints who may have the understanding to recognize the anti-christ, and they'll be able to know who he is at the signing/affirming of the covenant. I do suspect that access to the Word of God will become increasingly difficult in those days so, but for the ministry of the 144,000 and the angel and the 2 witnesses, most would probably remain in the dark.

Hey brother I am by no means a Bible scholar or eschatologist but offered my opinion and I'm not saying it is so and dogmatic about it, but one thing we can agree on for sure is we won't be here for the revealing not any portion of the Tribulation. Praise God and our Lord Jesus for that!

As far as your op title, we may be here to see the birth pains worsen, we may not, but for sure Jesus will not beat up His Bride before taking us to heaven with Him to celebrate our marriage.

 

[Tall Timbers]

Hey brother I am by no means a Bible scholar or eschatologist but offered my opinion and I'm not saying it is so and dogmatic about it, but one thing we can agree on for sure is we won't be here for the revealing not any portion of the Tribulation. Praise God and our Lord Jesus for that!

As far as your op title, we may be here to see the birth pains worsen, we may not, but for sure Jesus will not be at up His Bride before taking us to heaven with Him to celebrate our marriage.

I'm just sharing my opinion on the issue as well.