The 144,000 of Rev 7 and 14

[Andy C]

Interesting read that I agree with from the late Jack Kelley. The two groups share the number 144,000, but are not the same group.

A Bible Study by Jack Kelley

In Revelation 7:3-8 a group numbering 144,000 is introduced as the servants of our God. They are given the Seal of the Living God in their foreheads to protect them from the judgments coming on the earth against the land, the sea, and the trees.



“Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000, from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000, from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.
This group is clearly identified as being from among the Jewish population, with 12,000 coming from each of 12 named tribes. There is no good reason to read this passage other than literally. There is too much of a specific nature to warrant a symbolic interpretation (Rev. 7:3-8).

For the rest of this article -

The 144,000 of Rev 7 and 14 – Grace thru faith

... Same or different?

gracethrufaith.com

 

[Tall Timbers]

Very interesting. I always thought they were one and the same.

 

[mattfivefour]

Me, too, TT. Very interesting. Thanks for posting this, Andy.

 

[....]

Very interesting. I always thought they were one and the same.

I still do though, because Scripture never describes anything about the first mention of the 144,000 until Rev. 14. But it's probably going to be one of those things that we won't get a 100 percent answer on until it happens.

 

[Andy C]

I still do though, because Scripture never describes anything about the first mention of the 144,000 until Rev. 14. But it's probably going to be one of those things that we won't get a 100 percent answer on until it happens.

What do you believe having the 144,000 “sealed” means?

Rev 7
Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

 

[3Nails4Given]

Andy, I just personally believe “sealed” means that God has determined who these 144,000 are. Twelve thousand from each of the twelve tribes.

To me it means these 144,000 are special, they are set aside to be witness to the Jewish people.

 

[....]

What do you believe having the 144,000 “sealed” means?

Rev 7
Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

What I mean is: I believe the two groups are the same group; that's what I was trying to say in my first post, but I forgot to quote Tall Timbers, whom I was replying to! lol

(I think folks call that "a senior moment" )

 

[Tall Timbers]

I still do though, because Scripture never describes anything about the first mention of the 144,000 until Rev. 14. But it's probably going to be one of those things that we won't get a 100 percent answer on until it happens.

I'll have to look at it when I have some time to do so. Whether the same or not it's certainly an interesting thing to bring up and look at.

 

[Andy C]

I'll have to look at it when I have some time to do so. Whether the same or not it's certainly an interesting thing to bring up and look at.

Yes, Im going to do a deeper study tonight. Another end times person I refer to disagrees with Jack, and believes they are the same group.

 

[mattfivefour]

After years of believing they were the same group, I did a little study and came to the conclusion they are two separate groups. But my view is that while the two groups are different, the Revelation 14 group actually includes the Revelation 7 one. Let me explain.

Based on the figurative meaning of 12 in the Bible, representing pure and devoted human agency under God's authority, being multiplied by itself to indicate a superlative of its meaning, and a thousand representing a huge number or quantity, I have come to the following thoughts.

The 144,000 of Revelation 7 represents an innumerable number of Jews who are believers --or will become believers (hence the protection given them against God's judgments as per verse 3)-- who are drawn from every corner of Judaism.

The 144,000 of Revelation 14 represents the entirety of believers in Christ throughout history, an innumerable number, drawn from every corner of humanity --Jew and Gentile-- and from every Age. This would, therefore, include the sealed Jews from Revelation 7.

I stress that this is my conclusion. I could be wrong ... something that --in this case-- doesn't bother me because, due to when these two groups appear, I will be long gone in Heaven

 

[....]

After years of believing they were the same group, I did a little study and came to the conclusion they are two separate groups. But my view is that while the two groups are different, the Revelation 14 group actually includes the Revelation 7 one. Let me explain.

Based on the figurative meaning of 12 in the Bible, representing pure and devoted human agency under God's authority, being multiplied by itself to indicate a superlative of its meaning, and a thousand representing a huge number or quantity, I have come to the following thoughts.

The 144,000 of Revelation 7 represents an innumerable number of Jews who are believers --or will become believers (hence the protection given them against God's judgments as per verse 3)-- who are drawn from every corner of Judaism.

The 144,000 of Revelation 14 represents the entirety of believers in Christ throughout history, an innumerable number, drawn from every corner of humanity --Jew and Gentile-- and from every Age. This would, therefore, include the sealed Jews from Revelation 7.

I stress that this is my conclusion. I could be wrong ... something that --in this case-- doesn't bother me because, due to when these two groups appear, I will be long gone in Heaven

That's a good point; and yeah, we're not going to be here for it. So its' not really a "hill to die on" type thing.