Rapture Delayed

By Terry James

Author’s note: This article was posted originally on Raptureready.com on March 7, 2016. It is re-posted here because some of the same concerns as back then are being expressed through emails and in other ways. My response remains the same because God’s Plan in regard to the Rapture hasn’t changed.
We have looked a number of times in this column at those who mock the end-times message and the Rapture in particular. Because those who scoff have been of the abrasive, unbelieving variety for the most part, there is a standard Bible verse reply I’ve usually employed in response.

The scriptural reply has most often been intended to let those mocking know that they are, in actuality, fulfilling Bible prophecy.

“Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation” (2 Peter 3:3-4).

As of late, however, such a reply doesn’t quite fit that which should compose an appropriate response. That is because the questions are coming weekly from genuine believers in the Pre-Trib Rapture of the Church. These Christians are worried–some very worried.

These look around them, and on every side they see and feel the satanic pressures from this fallen sphere closing in. Issues and events –the very ambience in which they find their lives engulfed–generate thoughts that their circumstance is beginning to look much like the Bible’s description of the Tribulation itself.

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Rapture Delayed

Author’s note: This article was posted originally on Raptureready.com on March 7, 2016. It is re-posted here because some of the same concerns as back then are being expressed through emails …

terryjamesprophecyline.com

 

[PaidInFull]

Are you implying all Christians may not go in the rapture? Just to be clear, but using the word “Christian” Im referring to all members in His church who repented and believe in Jesus as their Savior, and have the Holy Spirit indwelled within.

No, I am implying that some will be naked and ashamed.

 

[PaidInFull]

Good post, but I do disagree with one point. The rapture is a signless event. Nothing has to happen before the rapture. And yes, there are signs that could show we are getting closer to the tribulation.

Regardless to what signs we see now, or if we believe gog-magog is close, or still a ways away, the rapture can happen at any second. If this were not true, then what is the doctrine of Imminency?

There are many prophetic pieces that could quickly fall into place during the time between the rapture and the start of the tribulation.

The doctrine of imminency is an error until the signs are beginning and it discredits the pre-trib doctrine. Jesus told us to be looking for a list of signs beginning and only then we are told to lift up our heads when we see the season and the day draws near. We were not to lift up our heads for 2,000 years.

Jesus said Peter would be taken prisoner in old age. Peter had to live for decades or Jesus words would not be true. That is the first thing post-tribbers jump at.

The problem was that until the seal of Daniel was opened, we didn't know what exactly we were to be looking for. In 1980 it was often preaches that the there was a three story tall computer in Belgium called the beast and it was capable of giving everyone in the world a mark. Little did we know what 2024 would be like!

It imminency was correct pre 1948, then the world would have been left without any witness. When the church is raptured everything is centered around God's witness in Israel with the 144,000 and the two witnesses.

Israel had to be in place as a nation to be provoked to jealousy by the church.

We got many things wrong before the seal of Daniel was opened because that's the thing about the seal God placed on the pieces of the jigsaw in Daniel - the seal worked.

 

[Andy C]

The doctrine of immanency is an error until the signs are beginning and it discredits the pre-trib doctrine.

How does it discredit pre-trib? Imminency Simply means He can come for His Church at any time, and nothing prophetic has to happen first.

We do know from scripture that the rapture does not trigger the tribulation. The two events are not connected other than the rapture happens first.

 

[Andy C]

It immanency was correct pre 1948, then the world would have been left without any witness. When the church is raptured everything is centered around God's witness in Israel with the 144,000 and the two witnesses.

Israel had to be in place as a nation to be provoked to jealousy by the church.

You dont think God could of achieved all that after the rapture? We cant know of how long there is after the rapture before the Trib starts, but certainly no matter the time, God can move His people back to Israel.

Do you believe the tribulation immediately follows the rapture?

 

[PaidInFull]

How does it discredit pre-trib? Imminency Simply means He can come for His Church at any time, and nothing prophetic has to happen first.

We do know from scripture that the rapture does not trigger the tribulation. The two events are not connected other than the rapture happens first.

Post-tribbers and Pre-wrathers look for errors in the pre-trib doctrine and though imminence is not the foundation of the pre-trib doctrine, they use it to discredit the whole doctrine. It is the baby out with the bath water.

Some pre-trib teachers think the rapture does trigger the GT, that the day of the Lord begins as sudden destruction because the rapture has happened. In the feast or trumpets the 12 themes are all like the rapture except for one - the time of Jacob's trouble.

When we look back, as I say, the idea of imminence and the rapture happening in 1948 with Israel being returned to the land 1000 years later leaves the world without the witness of Jesus for 1000 years. There has to be a hand over from the church to Israel.

Pre-trib is based on dispensations, that the church age ends and God deals with Israel. We can't have it both ways just because the rapture didn't happen in 1948. It simply couldn't have.

Notwithstanding that, we needed the signs to be in place and Jesus said, Behold! The fig tree and all the trees. That was the end of the Ottoman empire that divided into lots of trees or nations and Israel returning to the land. That began the season of the end and the day of redemption couldn't happen before that.

Some or most of the apostles thought Jesus would return when Peter was old and before John died because John wouldn't die. When we examine the Scriptures we can see that God works on a strict need to know basis and not until the final generation would we be able to understand when the seal of Daniel was opened.

When Jesus said to the disciples, it is not for YOU to know the times set by the Father, it didn't mean WE are not to know. As I said, Jesus gave us a list of signs beginning with the fig tree and then Paul said that we are not in darkness that that day overtake us like a thief.

I believe in imminence when the signs are beginning and that is what Jesus taught. I don't believe in imminence since the resurrection - that is not what Jesus taught and Peter must live out his life until old age, so when does imminence begin? It begins after the signs begin to appear and the seal of Daniel is opened. Then we can have imminence.

I am one of the few who still don't think we are there yet and I hope I am wrong. I hope that ton he next feast date we are out of here, but I expect global persecution because we are called to make one last plea to the world before God's terrible furious wrath begins.

Jesus gave us the signs and then added a caveat: BUT

When Jesus says BUT, put the brakes on an pay attention!

But before ALL these signs, they will lay hold of you and you will be My witnesses to kings and religious rulers. This was partly for the apostles but that was not the time of the end. Now we are in the time of the end and we see the signs all beginning, including the signs in the heavens. So what do I think comes next?

The great BUT BEFORE ALL THESE THINGS clause.

That is when I think imminency applies and everything is in place.

I know I am a spoilsport in the pre-trib camp. I am desperate for the rapture to happen because of what is happening to the kids. It can't come soon enough, but I read the small print and that is how I see it, The BUT BEFORE clause must be fulfilled first.

 

[PaidInFull]

Do you believe the tribulation immediately follows the rapture?

Probably but not definitely. I think the whole deal is summed up in the 12 themes in the feast of trumpets with the opening of the gates of heaven and the time of Jacob's trouble.

 

[Andy C]

Jesus gave us the signs and then added a caveat: BUT

When Jesus says BUT, put the brakes on an pay attention!

I assume your referring to His Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24-25, and also covered in Mark and Luke?

Im of the belief Jesus was not referring to the rapture, for that was a mystery Paul was lead to write about. Instead, Jesus was referring to the times in the tribulation, culminating with His physical return at the end of those 7 years.

 

[Matthew6:33]

I assume your referring to His Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24-25, and also covered in Mark and Luke?

Im of the belief Jesus was not referring to the rapture, for that was a mystery Paul was lead to write about. Instead, Jesus was referring to the times in the tribulation, culminating with His physical return at the end of those 7 years.

Ageed. Jesus was talking to the Jews in the Olivet Discourse. The language is Jewish. The Church was not even known yet and it had no doctrine until Paul laid it out. He was only able to lay it out once he was jailed for preaching the Gospel.

 

[Amethyst]

This thread is somewhat depressing. I think I long for the rapture more than others at this time, which is probably why.

 

[Andy C]

This thread is somewhat depressing. I think I long for the rapture more than others at this time, which is probably why.

I dont see this thread the same way you do. I can only speak for myself in saying I long for the rapture, wish it was today, but Im mentally prepared to be here as long as it takes. More importantly, I still have unsaved family members that I pray for daily to repent.

 

[Amethyst]

I dont see this thread the same way you do. I can only speak for myself in saying I long for the rapture, wish it was today, but Im mentally prepared to be here as long as it takes. More importantly, I still have unsaved family members that I pray for daily to repent.

I dont mean to imply no one else wants the rapture. Just a different level of desire. Not that mine is "better."

 

[PaidInFull]

One of my favorite YT channels is Dr. Barry Awe. He thinks the rapture may happen June 21 and he has a point. He might be right. He's been wrong more times than I can count but every time it's closer and in truth he learns more about God and the feasts and I learn some things from him.

Does he get depressed when the date he hopes for doesn't work out? No! Am I happy it didn't happen? No!

I've been waiting on the rapture since 1988 at the latest, but I was hoping for it earlier. I have never been disappointed because I learn more and more about Him and there is more work to be done.

I have noticed two changes in me over the time waiting: I love Him more because I know Him more. Also I hate the world more and more - it's becoming a rebel hell hole.

It's impossible to make me depressed because if He comes tomorrow then that's great and if it's next year then I have another year to serve and learn. I am too busy to get depressed.

If you don't know Dr, Barry, hang out with him for a bit as his enthusiasm is infectious and that's how it ought to be. I'm and optimist that carries an umbrella when hoping for sunshine.

Jesus is coming but he did say that the bridegroom was delayed and the servants fell asleep. However there's a caveat, for Paul said we do not sleep as others do.

I don't want to be in the sleeping crowd because they thought Jesus was coming earlier and lost their enthusiasm. One thing is for sure - time is speeding up - He is coming soon,

Maranatha!

This thread is somewhat depressing. I think I long for the rapture more than others at this time, which is probably why

 

[mattfivefour]

Folks, I noticed in this thread that there have been some references to YouTube videos that, frankly, involve conspiracy theories. We do not want these things promoted on CCF. I have viewed the most outlandish YT videos over the years, some of them sounding very reasonable ... until one begins digging deeper and investigating all of the evidence. So, please let's leave these things off this board.

 

[TCC]

My focus was on the planets, but yes you raise an important question which is worth examining at some point.

I don't want to digress too much and derail the thread, but we can't compare Isaiah to the work of Christ in the believer because..."

1) Isaiah was not made the righteousness of God in Christ.
2) That is why Jesus said, There is no greater prophet than John, but the least in the Kingdom of God is greater then him.

But that still raises the question: do we still need to be worthy? Well, regarding the rapture, we are commanded to pray to escape and be worthy...

34And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. Lk.21:36

There are many admonishments for us to walk worthy of our calling and to be found awake, alert, watching and to examine ourselves that we be found in the faith: and these are the keeping of our garments...

3Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev.15:15

And Peter preached that ...
13Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.


17And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: 18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1Peter.1:1

She seems to be referring to Peter and I can't fault her on that. Because of a lack of the fear of the Lord many are spoiling their garments. The call to holiness is echoed throughout the NT along with fearful consequences if we abuse grace and sin willfully and are careless about our garments.

We all sin. We all ought to be struggling against sin by crucifying the flesh. The nearer we get to God then like Isaiah the less holy we realize we are, and the less worthy we are. Yet we are called to put the effort in to keep ourselves pure in the midst of a wicked world. Some get mentally lost in the apparent dichotomy, but there are three of us in this body: the old man at war with the new man and the Holy Spirit making us the holy temple of God.

As for dreams and visions, the nearer we get to the rapture the more Scriptural it is for young men to have visions and old men to have dreams.

In Iran we see the fastest growing church in the world and many Muslims are coming to faith because they met Jesus in dreams.

Once again this can be a minefield just as self righteous preaching can be mistaken for holiness through grace.

Back to the videos: that is evidence that demands a verdict regardless of theology.

I had been thinking much along these lines several years ago. Andy Woods has a video series about the partial rapture. Its pretty good and I believe worth consideration. What stood out to me was Luke 21:36. Andy believes this refers to the midpoint of the tribulation and related to the Jews on earth at that time. There are some interesting things to note too about earlier passages in that chapter. Something also to note, I don't believe is in that video series: in the two other gospel accounts of this period in time (end times and Christ approaching return) Matth and Mark both have in them the "abomination of desolation." However, Luke curiously does not. But it does have 21:36. I believe this is likely viewing that abomination of desolation warning. And it actually makes sense because they will "escape" per Rev 12:14. Those who are not deceived.

From my experience, there tends to be a sense to use end time passages for the church. I would agree with Woods in this because I have seen many many cases where we can tend to blend our theology with what is stated in relation to Israel during the tribulation. At least from what I have seen over the years. I hope this helps bring some consideration into view. Any feed back of course is welcomed. Blessings.s

 

[TCC]

I dont mean to imply no one else wants the rapture. Just a different level of desire. Not that mine is "better."

I understand a bit. In 2017, I was sure it was rapture time. I bring this up only as an example or expression of what I would like to say. The so called Rev 12 sign of 2017 seem to have been written off. I've done a lot of research on that issue and can relate with those who believe what occured celestially was not the Rev 12 sign. My interest is more so in the ways we look at things, even more so than whether something we see a certain way is the best or accurate.

I remember in those days in 2017, many were trying to see that "sign" as an event. Like a sign and also an event. Which is understandable. But not so much in writing something like that off because it was not also and event. To me, it just felt a lot like people's excitement, yes. But kind of like we were basing our sense of how to see something based seemingly much on our convictions or levels of certainty in how we were looking at something.

I bring all this up just to say I understand having a very ready heart and spirit and desire toward the rapture. What tends to be a way of excitement to look at things hard to pin down and/or make sense of, is that however God has designed to do the rapture...because its Him and His majestic heart in it...all the swarming data and considerations and what I term as social artifacts leading us along the way can become precious elements attesting to His heart toward us. Like a grab bag filled with ornaments of significant beauty only generation really gets to see. Blessings.

 

[Andy C]

I understand a bit. In 2017, I was sure it was rapture time. I bring this up only as an example or expression of what I would like to say. The so called Rev 12 sign of 2017 seem to have been written off. I've done a lot of research on that issue and can relate with those who believe what occured celestially was not the Rev 12 sign. My interest is more so in the ways we look at things, even more so than whether something we see a certain way is the best or accurate.

I remember in those days in 2017, many were trying to see that "sign" as an event. Like a sign and also an event. Which is understandable. But not so much in writing something like that off because it was not also and event. To me, it just felt a lot like people's excitement, yes. But kind of like we were basing our sense of how to see something based seemingly much on our convictions or levels of certainty in how we were looking at something.

I bring all this up just to say I understand having a very ready heart and spirit and desire toward the rapture. What tends to be a way of excitement to look at things hard to pin down and/or make sense of, is that however God has designed to do the rapture...because its Him and His majestic heart in it...all the swarming data and considerations and what I term as social artifacts leading us along the way can become precious elements attesting to His heart toward us. Like a grab bag filled with ornaments of significant beauty only generation really gets to see. Blessings.

What was the “Revelation 12” sign people were excited about?

 

[Andy C]

Andy Woods has a video series about the partial rapture. Its pretty good and I believe worth consideration.

Just for clarity, Woods does not believe in a partial rapture.

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

www.youtube.com

 

[Eric Nicholas]

What was the “Revelation 12” sign people were excited about?

Scott Clarke, a now heretic who didn't have the humility and grace to stay disappeared popularized it. He even popped up in a documentary about it if I'm not mistaken or some other similar subject. He came up with this elaborate thing that you'd be better off just watching a video about, due to the lengthy material involved. Long story short, he was super-duper sure that when all of that particular sign came to fruition, we were gone. The "sign" itself was discovered in a human made program called "Stellarium" and it was read into Rev 12. And then came the infamous Sept 23, 2017 event or nonevent, rather.

Tons of people watched. And even more were left crying, depressed, disappointed and faith rattled. It got so bad, people threatened to off themselves. Scott disappeared if I'm not mistaken within a day, maybe two of the prophecy falling on its face. He jumped ship for over half a year or something and left his "flock" holding the bag. It was an entire huge thing on YouTube in that circle. He was super sure of a lot and just like Barry Awe, was wrong. Time after time after time after time. He now happily labels himself a "recovering dispensationalist". He no longer believes in hell. He holds to universal salvation. He's an all-around overconfident heretic that has about as much humility as the houseplant in the corner over there.

He's one of those that is always super sure of what he's saying, unshakable really. And like all "knowers", they wind up dead wrong. He loves to say how we have collectively had it all wrong this whole time and he among his unnamed few and fellow travelers have the actual answer. He's an exhausting watch. I remember he got into a tiff with a guy who happily and humbly calls himself "The Third Eagle of the Apocalypse" about who came up with the REV 12 theory first. It was an absolute disaster.

 

[Andy C]

Scott Clarke, a now heretic who didn't have the humility and grace to stay disappeared popularized it. He even popped up in a documentary about it if I'm not mistaken or some other similar subject. He came up with this elaborate thing that you'd be better off just watching a video about it due to the material involved. Long story short, he was super-duper sure that when all of that sign came to fruition we were gone. The "sign" itself was discovered in a human made program called "Stellarium"and it was read into Rev 12. And then came the infamous Sept 23, 2017 event or nonevent, rather.

Tons of people watched. And even more were left crying, depressed, disappointed and faith rattled. It got so bad, people threatened to off themselves. Scott disappeared if I'm not mistaken within a day, maybe two of the prophecy falling on its face. He jumped ship for over half a year or something and left his "flock" holding the bag. It was an entire huge thing on YouTube in that circle. He was super sure of a lot and just like Barry Awe was wrong. Time after time after time after time. He now happily labels himself a "recovering dispensationalist". He no longer believes in hell. He holds to universal salvation. He's an all-around overconfident heretic that has about as much humility as the houseplant in the corner over there.

He's one of those that is always super sure of what he's saying, unshakable really. And like all "knowers", they wind up dead wrong. He loves to say how we have collectively had it all wrong this whole time and he among his unnamed few and fellow travelers have the actual answer. He's an exhausting watch. I remember he got into a tiff with a guy who happily and humbly calls himself "The Third Eagle of the Apocalypse" on who came up with the REV 12 theory first. It was an absolute disaster.

Glad I never heard anything about it, nor do I recall it ever being mentioned on the forums. I also never heard of Clarke or Barry Awe.

Thanks for this post brother!

 

[Tall Timbers]

Scott Clarke, a now heretic who didn't have the humility and grace to stay disappeared popularized it. He even popped up in a documentary about it if I'm not mistaken or some other similar subject. He came up with this elaborate thing that you'd be better off just watching a video about it due to the material involved. Long story short, he was super-duper sure that when all of that sign came to fruition we were gone. The "sign" itself was discovered in a human made program called "Stellarium"and it was read into Rev 12. And then came the infamous Sept 23, 2017 event or nonevent, rather.

Tons of people watched. And even more were left crying, depressed, disappointed and faith rattled. It got so bad, people threatened to off themselves. Scott disappeared if I'm not mistaken within a day, maybe two of the prophecy falling on its face. He jumped ship for over half a year or something and left his "flock" holding the bag. It was an entire huge thing on YouTube in that circle. He was super sure of a lot and just like Barry Awe was wrong. Time after time after time after time. He now happily labels himself a "recovering dispensationalist". He no longer believes in hell. He holds to universal salvation. He's an all-around overconfident heretic that has about as much humility as the houseplant in the corner over there.

He's one of those that is always super sure of what he's saying, unshakable really. And like all "knowers", they wind up dead wrong. He loves to say how we have collectively had it all wrong this whole time and he among his unnamed few and fellow travelers have the actual answer. He's an exhausting watch. I remember he got into a tiff with a guy who happily and humbly calls himself "The Third Eagle of the Apocalypse" on who came up with the REV 12 theory first. It was an absolute disaster.

Excellent post, Sir.