If the US does attack/invade Iran....

[RonJohnSilver]

...it occurs to me that after some initial chaos, things will settle down and there might actually be peace in the middle east. Iran will no longer finance and support all of the terrorist groups and so the regional threats will significantly diminish. The Bible speaks of a time of peace before the Gog/Magog invasion. Maybe that would be part of it. Israel would truly be a land of 'unwalled villages.' Still some dangers around, certainly, it's still Satan's world after all, still though, a greatly reduced level of stress/danger. The calm before the storm?

 

[Hol]

Makes sense to me.

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

...it occurs to me that after some initial chaos, things will settle down and there might actually be peace in the middle east. Iran will no longer finance and support all of the terrorist groups and so the regional threats will significantly diminish. The Bible speaks of a time of peace before the Gog/Magog invasion. Maybe that would be part of it. Israel would truly be a land of 'unwalled villages.' Still some dangers around, certainly, it's still Satan's world after all, still though, a greatly reduced level of stress/danger. The calm before the storm?

Yeah with this board of peace it will be interesting to see whether Turkey plays nice temporarily.

 

[Andiamo]

Yes. And I wonder if…just like in business… the board, one day, could get rid of the Chairman of the board.

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

Yes. And I wonder if…just like in business… the board, one day, could get rid of the Chairman of the board.

Could very well be, especially if one of the members that was selected is a WEF plant

 

[Jedidjah]

Yes, it certainly looks like the calm before the storm. Could a potential attack on Iran trigger the war of Ezekiel, which will only be short?

The Abraham Accords still look like the covenant. The Board of peace is beast peace decoy at this point. The beast which in my opinion could be MBS is not on the board ... So far.

I´ll watch Pahlavi come in (perhaps after the Gog War?) and make the capital of Persia into Elam. In Iran, people want to see him as a leader, and the prophecy about Elam explicitly mentions a king.

 

[Jedidjah]

And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. - Joel 2:30

Yesterday, an older brother referred to this verse, which says in verse 31 that it must take place before the tribulation.
This morning, I entered “blood and fire” into the search function of my Bible program.
And lo and behold, I came to Ezekiel 38. I wonder if there could be a connection?

 

[mattfivefour]

Joel 2:31 does NOT necessarily refer to the Great Tribulation. That is a matter of interpretation. Some believe it to be the day when Christ personally arrives to judge the world at the end of the Great Tribulation. Others view it as occurring at the end of the MK.

 

[AnyMinute]

Joel 2:31 does NOT necessarily refer to the Great Tribulation. That is a matter of interpretation. Some believe it to be the day when Christ personally arrives to judge the world at the end of the Great Tribulation. Others view it as occurring at the end of the MK.

I agree. I tend to think it will happen at the end of the tribulation, right before the return of Christ.

Matthew 24:29-30

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days:

‘The sun will be darkened,

and the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,c and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[Shinobi]

...it occurs to me that after some initial chaos, things will settle down and there might actually be peace in the middle east. Iran will no longer finance and support all of the terrorist groups and so the regional threats will significantly diminish. The Bible speaks of a time of peace before the Gog/Magog invasion. Maybe that would be part of it. Israel would truly be a land of 'unwalled villages.' Still some dangers around, certainly, it's still Satan's world after all, still though, a greatly reduced level of stress/danger. The calm before the storm?

My only concern is till the peace settles out how bad could it get. Iran has already threatened retaliation but most likely that will be local to the Middle East. My concern is the cells hidden all across the US that are just waiting for their go signal. We saw that two such instances were thwarted this past New Years, one in New York and one in the LA area. If there are two chances are very high there are a lot more spread out all over the country. In major city is a likely target especially those hosting any kind of large events that draws a lot of people. In short it could get a lot hotter before things start to cool down.

Given the already problems with Somali fraud investigations, the anti-Ice protest happening in not just large cities but even smaller towns those are the variables that could change the trajectory in a moment's notice. People will have a major need of wanting to call for peace and that will be from massive tragedy before hand. Saw that even in the UK they are floating a new law to change the call back age for veterans from 55 years to 65 years. Seem he UK has a couple of problems, retention and recruitment and they are likely looking at things where they think they will need warm bodies. Interesting turn of events that on the surface does not mean much but in the bigger picture could point to a level of troubles not seen since 9/11 or other terrorist events since then.

 

[Tall Timbers]

Joel 2:31 does NOT necessarily refer to the Great Tribulation. That is a matter of interpretation. Some believe it to be the day when Christ personally arrives to judge the world at the end of the Great Tribulation. Others view it as occurring at the end of the MK.

I've long understood verse 31 to be at the very end of Tribulation, on the day when Christ appears and descends to earth.

 

[Andiamo]

And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. - Joel 2:30

Yesterday, an older brother referred to this verse, which says in verse 31 that it must take place before the tribulation.
This morning, I entered “blood and fire” into the search function of my Bible program.
And lo and behold, I came to Ezekiel 38. I wonder if there could be a connection?

I have never heard the idea of Joel 2:30 (and 31?) taking place before the tribulation.
Is this older brother connecting this to bodies of water turning red, “blood moons” solar eclipses and other cosmic events in this current age of grace?
(I’m not thinking too clearly today, so bear with me if I am missing something obvious or if I misunderstood your post)

 

[Jedidjah]

In this context, I recommend the book "Footsteps of the Messiah" by Fruchtenbaum.

He has correctly listed the five eclipses with parallel passages and chronological classifications. The first of the five eclipses for the time before the great tribulation is announced in Joel 2:31. Here, the “day of the Lord” is mentioned, which is always a reference to the great tribulation. The first eclipse is to occur before that. Anyone who reads the book of Joel from beginning to end will recognize a chronological sequence. For me, there is no doubt that this takes place before the tribulation.

 

[Andiamo]

In this context, I recommend the book "Footsteps of the Messiah" by Fruchtenbaum.

He has correctly listed the five eclipses with parallel passages and chronological classifications. The first of the five eclipses for the time before the great tribulation is announced in Joel 2:31. Here, the “day of the Lord” is mentioned, which is always a reference to the great tribulation. The first eclipse is to occur before that. Anyone who reads the book of Joel from beginning to end will recognize a chronological sequence. For me, there is no doubt that this takes place before the tribulation.

I have also studied that book and will review the section you are referring to.

There was a thread I started some time back, where I had some issues with his referring to that phrase as “always and without exception” to mean the great tribulation. Maybe you can read there also:

(Edit to add: Although here, I am mostly unclear about the meaning of the phrase in the New Testament)

Thread 'The Day of the Lord'

Apr 12, 2025

Comments/question for those who have read Footsteps of the Messiah. Arnold states on page 173 that the “Day of the Lord” refers to the Tribulation in the HEBREW scriptures “always and without exception.” Knowing that the phrase also means the Great Tribulation in the New Testament, I came to the conclusion that there must be a few exceptions in the New Testament, as I considered Acts 2:20 for example (although there it is the “great and notable” day of the Lord) which refers to His second coming.
On page 174 he lists New Testament designations (phrases) which refer to the tribulation...

• Andiamo
• Replies: 8
• Forum: Bible Questions

• 

 

[Andiamo]

I have another question for you @Jedidjah From your other posts I understand that you believe that the rapture is pre-trib, that Ez 38 is during the trib, and that there is no gap between the rapture and the start of the trib. Am I remembering that correctly?
(I will respect your points of view…just trying to understand more clearly where you are coming from)

 

[Jedidjah]

I will respect your points of view

In addition to several videos and bloglinks from fellow believers who recognize the connection between the principalities and powers in Daniel 10, Ezekiel 38/39, and Revelation12 (the latter in connection with the Rapture, which I posted here in the forum (and there are many other serious fellow believers who recognize this connection in other online communities — who, like me, do not engage in newspaper eisegesis, but have often been students of prophecy for decades), I can only give you the tip to enter the word “chiasm” into google and, above all, go to“Images.” For Revelation is structured in the chiasm style, in which the meat is in the middle. I am sure that when you look at this, it will amaze you. - Blessings!

 

[Jedidjah]

end times beliefs

When I say "no doubt," I mean my personal conviction, just as each of us has our own specific views on the course of end-times events (as far as I can recall, there are at least five different views of the Ezekiel War alone). Broadly speaking (with a few minor differences), I agree with the course of end-times events described by David Cooper. Apart from that, I have to be honest and tell you that I presently have other commitments and can only rarely visit the forum, which is why I don't have the time to discuss the gap theory. I hope you understand.

But I just searched through my NT study folder and uploaded three examples so you can see this wonderful chiasm-structure. The first one is my favorite.
1.

1.jpeg

drive.google.com

2.

2.jpeg

drive.google.com

3.

3.jpeg

drive.google.com

 

[Tall Timbers]

In this context, I recommend the book "Footsteps of the Messiah" by Fruchtenbaum.

He has correctly listed the five eclipses with parallel passages and chronological classifications. The first of the five eclipses for the time before the great tribulation is announced in Joel 2:31. Here, the “day of the Lord” is mentioned, which is always a reference to the great tribulation. The first eclipse is to occur before that. Anyone who reads the book of Joel from beginning to end will recognize a chronological sequence. For me, there is no doubt that this takes place before the tribulation.

Here are the portions of Footsteps that address Joel 2:31:

From Footsteps of the Messiah, by Arnold Fruchtenbaum (latest revision)

Pg 129-130: While some of the events stated to be pretribulational can be placed in a chronological order, others cannot be placed in any sequence until they occur. One of these is the rapture, which will be discussed in a later chapter. This chapter will be concerned with other pretribulational events that cannot, at this time, be placed in any sequential order.

A. Blackout I
The Scriptures predict five blackouts that will occur during the end time period, including the last days of the church age and the tribulation. When the Bible speaks of a blackout, it means that the light of the sun, moon, and stars is suddenly blocked so that the earth is in total darkness.

The blackouts in the end times will be similar to what happened during the ninth plague in Egypt, described in Exodus 10:21-23:

21 And Jehovah said unto Moses, Stretch out your hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt. 22 And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days; 23 they saw not one another, neither rose any one from his place for three days: but all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings.

Another example of such a blackout is Matthew 27:45: Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour. During the last three hours of Yeshua’s sacrificial death on the cross, darkness struck the land.

The first of the five end-time blackouts is prophesied by Joel 2:31 to occur before the tribulation: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of Jehovah comes. Again, the term “the day of Jehovah” is used as a name for the tribulation. Joel clearly puts the first blackout before the tribulation, saying that it will strike the whole world.

Pg 333-334: The pleading of Israel for the Messiah to return will not be confined to the Jews of Bozrah, but will include the Jews still in Jerusalem. It will begin with the confession of the national sin, and then the people will plead for Yeshua’s return to save them from the troubles described in the preceding context. They plead for the One whom they have pierced. This will be the result of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit (12:10), Israel’s mourning for the Messiah (12:11-14), and the cleansing of her sins (13:1).

Another prophecy of this event is in Joel 2:28-32:

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 and also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my Spirit. 30 And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of Jehovah comes. 32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of Jehovah shall be delivered; for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those that escape, as Jehovah has said, and among the remnant those whom Jehovah does call.

Regeneration is the work of the Holy Spirit, and here the nation of Israel will be regenerated because of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on them, creating some dramatic manifestations in their midst (vv. 28-29). This will be accompanied by wonders in the heavens as well (vv. 30-31). The result is that the Jews of Jerusalem and the remnant of Bozrah will be delivered and escape (v. 32).


Pg 409-411: That this regeneration of Israel will be a result of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit is the point of Joel 2:28-32:

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 and also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my Spirit. 30 And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of Jehovah comes. 32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of Jehovah shall be delivered; for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those that escape, as Jehovah has said, and among the remnant those whom Jehovah does call.

Once the Holy Spirit is poured out on all Israel, then the people will call upon the name of the Lord. God will respond by delivering and saving them.

The national regeneration of Israel will result in the total forgiveness of her sins, according to Micah 7:18-20:

18 Who is a God like unto you, that pardons iniquity, and passes over the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retains not his anger for ever, because he delights in loving kindness. 19 He will again have compassion upon us; he will tread our iniquities under foot; and you will cast all their sins into the depths of the sea. 20 You will perform the truth to Jacob, and the loving kindness to Abraham, which you have sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.

God’s loyal love for the Chosen People will cause Him to pardon and to pass over the sins of Israel when He returns to them in all compassion (vv. 18-19). He will do so on the basis of the Abrahamic Covenant (v. 20), especially as it is developed in the salvation aspect of the New Covenant.

Another prophecy that speaks of Israel’s regeneration is Zephaniah 3:9-13:

9 For then will I turn to the peoples a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of Jehovah, to serve him with one consent. 10 From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring my offering. 11 In that day shall you not be put to shame for all your doings, wherein you have transgressed against me; for then I will take away out of the midst of you your proudly exulting ones, and you shall no more be haughty in my holy mountain. 12 But I will leave in the midst of you an afflicted and poor people, and they shall take refuge in the name of Jehovah. 13 The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth; for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.

Throughout the dispersion, the Jews will begin to call upon the name of the Lord. It is important to note that regardless of where they are, the Jewish people will respond, so that the regeneration will indeed be total.

One final passage is Romans 11:25-27:

25 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part has befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in; 26 and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 And this is my covenant unto them, When I shall take away their sins.

As Paul concluded his lengthy treatment of the place of Israel in the program of God, he pointed out that the present blindness and hardening of Israel is not permanent. It is temporary, until the full number of Gentiles preordained for the body of the Messiah is reached (v. 25). It is then that the hardening of Israel will be removed, and all Jewish people living at that time will be saved (vv. 26-27).
__________________________________________

The first blackout takes place before Tribulation.

The National regeneration of Israel occurs just before the end of Tribulation.