Where does the current Israel/Iran war fit into the end time events?

[mattfivefour]

I think that Israel's actions against Iran will eliminate that greatest of threats and actually calm things down in the Middle East. Without the apocalyptic Muslim leadership in Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah will no longer be real threats. Neither will the Houthis.

 

[TCC]

Neither do I. I think it might be a prophecy, but what I think works even better is the passages I think I mentioned above - Ez 32, Jer 49 and Is 17 because the first 2 both mention Elam (that area that is now in modern Iran) along with many of the near neighbours also mentioned in Psalm 83 but with more detail. Jer 49 and Is 17 are both about the destruction of Damascus. Egypt and Jordan are mentioned (Jordan consists of the ancient territories of Ammon, Moab and Edom with Gilead at the far northern tip) and they are mentioned in that grouping.

I like Bill Salus's concept that getting rid of the near neighbourhood enemies means Israel can live in peace on the mountains of Israel (that is a specific region that we call the West Bank today) which Ezek 38 says they are doing when that attack comes. Whether thru Ps 83 and or the other passages or by some other way that God has planned.

For whatever reason that God allows, by the time of Ezek 38 Israel is living without bars/walls/gates in the area of Judea and Samaria that the rest of the world persists in calling the West Bank.

For that to happen God will have to deal with the Palestinians in that area.

Bill Salus and Tom Hughes were discussing the war this morning:

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Thanks Margery. I have been able to catch up to the midpoint of the video. In one way I am glad to see that Tom requests clarity from Bill on the things he is saying because many sometimes (actually often) Bill, for me, is not so clear in making points. Maybe he is, but at least in places Tom seems to understand where I can get kind of lost with Bill at times. I think in part Bill is looking at several areas of scripture simultaneously and explaining things from a plethora of observation point. I can understand that in some ways because on other eschatological issues I find myself doing a similar thing...lol. So I guess in a way I am getting bitten by my own kinds of approaches with Bill, just in different areas of scripture. I can see how my points of view could be confusing at times if its anything like how I can struggle sometimes with Bill.

At this point in the video Bill had mentioned two things I would not just blend as some form of a "given." One is that Bill sees there are no wars in the first half of the tribulation. But I would believe exegetically there is too much of what I would consider a ground swell of difference on that to be too certain to bulld alternative ideas of eschatology as if there were no wars in the 1st half. This is where we bring in verses from other areas in scripture. And each of those sections still may have valid concerns as to how accurate we may understand them prior to blending them into a bigger theme we might be forming using them.

EXAMPLE ONE
1 example is Daniel 11 and other areas of Daniel. How much of what we understand in Daniel regarding antiochus epiphanes and how much is slated for the end times. There are scholarly debates with varying tensions. I believe there are wars in the 1st half of the tribulaiton aside from Daniel because I believe in Rev 13 when the AC is sung as a hero "who can war with the beast," is because war had recently occured concerning the beast rising. Which seems to interplay with some war themes in Daniel. But again, aside from Daniel, the AC rises in fame before the people during the 1st half of the tribulation sing about him winning wars. One stated aspect of that is that AC rises in fame because of war. And since his official reign does not begin for 42 months until the midpoint, it would have to be the first half of the triublation which finds the AC one who is sung about as no one able to go to war with.

So something like that to me is of the clearer exegetical passages to consider. Would you know Bill's take on that area of Rev 13? How the AC is sung about as one no one can war with without war? I'm open to consider. But if something is that plainly missing from Bill's surmizing, to me, it just does not warrant too much more investigation on a handful of other areas in scripture that are likely even less clear. Although I would say that in some ways I would want someone like Bill to be correct. Because I like the fact that he is looking at a range of verses. Which is a noble endeavor. And strays from common errors we can make in perhaps trying to overstate emphasis on one particular verse.

An example of that, for me, would be Zech 12. That is a section of scripture that seems to be thrown around a lot to fit various ways we might be thinking. But admittedly, that is not a very clear passage to place. In some ways it could be understood as the general Trajectory over the course of Israel's 80 years of being back today. Like all their wars along the way. In some ways I might even see Psalm 83 fulfilled in the composite of wars (like 1967 etc). For in a way it would seem to fit.

EXAMPLE TWO
The other area Bill mentions is 2 Thes where the AC will bring false wonders and miracles seemingly right after the rapure of the church. And for me, this is the first I have ever heard of that kind of interpretation. I believe there are too many schalarly considerations around 2 Thes 2 to build too much certainty on linking percieved outcomes with other themes to build on 2 Thes 2. Like when I look at 2 Thes 2, I can see a mirror for us in our day of it (and perhaps even the Andy Woods rapture notion of apostasy for effect). But I would see the timeline expressed in 2 Thes 2 to be much strong overall in general as the revealing of AC when he demands worship. The full context affords this. Which in that view would see the great apostasy as something that occurs after seal 5's persecution (or perhaps including it) leading up to the AC being honored to the degree he will be by the midpoint. So to slap on meaning that there are false signs and wonders by the AC right after the rapture is not something I would consider to have much exegetical strength. There is always the potential. But I mean just looking at it in the sense of probability when dealing with context rich narrative (being the midpoint...AC's ultimate reveal), and for me that would lean toward the midpoint.

Although i would say on this point I would be closer to Bill's view than JD Farag. Although it is somewhat foggy where JD might absolutely stand on this point, the impression over the years I have been able to gather from his takes is that there will likely be false signs and wonders by the AC in the very short term. And related to the false harlot Church rising (perhaps even doing lying wonders leading up to their supposed leader, the AC, to come). Almost like since we are in the COVID age of Deception, we should be prepared to see NAR bring the AC false signs and wonders even in the age of grace. Which is my subjective understanding of a JD position. But if an accurate observation of JD's views on that, would to me seem to be extremely removed from the trib midpoint and Matt 24 timeline trafecotry of false signs and wonders occuring at the midpoint +. For example Matt 24:24 is the midpoint +. Not right after the rapture. This having a great layout of timeline for us I would consider a helpful road map of how also to understand 2 Thes 2 mention of lying wonders. A Matt 24 hint upon its timing. Plus the AC being very limited in supernatural activity until the beast from the pit (trumpet 5) arrives to grant AC more power--enough to kill the two witnesse).

So I guess areas like this along with Bills' reasoning of how the 1967 war could not be Psalm 83 I guess in a way keeps me from spending too much time with Bill. Even though on JDF I clearly stated my opposition to a Psalm 83 war to occur position, I was also very interested in any who would see Psalm 83 having relevance today. On that board it got kind of contentous over that issue. So it seemed to be a conversation not to easily have over there. But whether there is or there is not something to the Psalm 83 war takes, for me its not like I think of it as Psalm 83 camp vs non Psalm 83 camp (which it kind of became on JDF). Rather I just look at it more like matching scriptural relelvance in our day proving itself out or not. Regardless of camp standings. Even though I am not the greatest Bill S. fan, I remain open to some of his consideration (even in light of reasons that would be yellow flags to me not to pursue much further as mentioned above).

For clarity's sake, I think Bill S. would believe that the 2-state solution has sailed and no longer realistically on the table. Margery, would you say that is an accurate statement regarding Bill's position? That there is no longer any relevance to consider a two-state solution?

In the enterim I will make efforts to finish the video. Blessings dear sister.

 

[Margery]

For clarity's sake, I think Bill S. would believe that the 2-state solution has sailed and no longer realistically on the table. Margery, would you say that is an accurate statement regarding Bill's position? That there is no longer any relevance to a consider a two-state solution?

Yes!

 

[TCC]

I've been surprised that Iran hasn't changed its name to Persia.

This is interesting to me. In my comment about Trump it was just for fun though. I think it would raise the hairs on the back of my neck if Trump just decided to change Iran's name...lol. Since Trump is into renaming things, it just seemed like a fitting meme that he'd just start renaming countries. In majestic Trump fashion. lol. Like a Saturday night skit.

But it would be interesting to understand why you might think this though TT. If they do or might, perhaps it would be fitting on a number of levels. It seems they changed their name to Iran in 1935 to connect with deeper roots. Persia as a name that seemed to become for them known because of Greek Colonialisation. And ethnically they seemed to want to shake that persona. So perhaps it could be a diplomatic move for Iran to change back to Persia as an optic of sorts for the West to be lulled into think of them as a compliant to Western ideas evolving culture. While changing it to Persia might just earmark a more noble standing of theirs in the coming Ez 38 war. Even taking on that name again, for show. But perhaps also for kind of becoming bigger than life in what seems to be a very pronounced coming moment for that nation.

Is something like that somewhat related to how you might be expected their name to change? Or other? Blessings.

 

[Tall Timbers]

But it would be interesting to understand why you might think this though TT.

Simply because as Persia it was a great empire.

 

[Batman]

I tend to agree this could dismantle Iran and all the proxies and power broking they lead and then result in them having no choice but to join the Ezekiel coalition since they would be weak and not a main player......but either way, they will still hate and desire the destruction of Israel and join the coalition.

 

[Shinobi]

Ok I am not going to get into the Ezekiel and Jeremiah aspect for time. I will say that what we think we see in the Middle East is not what prophecy says the ultimate end will be. Two points to ponder. First, is Islam specifically what the Shia in Iran believe. According to their own words, the Mahdi will not arrive until Israel is no more. They desperately want their Mahdi to come so they will never stop trying to remove Israel and kill all its people. Second, it is listed in the numbers of countries that will eventually come against Israel not once but several times. No it is not called Iran in scripture, but it is called Persian and Elam. That being said we can fully expect that this temporary ceased fire is just that, temporary. They may lie low for a while giving themselves time to replenish missile stocks, develop longer range missiles and more powerful ones maybe even to the level of a tactical nuke.

So where does that put the world? For one it keeps the US hopefully in a very watchful mode. It is pretty well known that during the open borders under Biden a number of Iranians snuck into the US, others were allowed to be released freely without tracking their movements. It is said that out of some 1500 or so Iranians that entered in the last year under Biden nearly half that number were released into the US. Some of those have now proven to be possible attackers. One I heard has direct ties to Hezbollah. Simply put depending on where you live be watchful.

As I have told others, places of concern are large gathering areas, malls, parks, entertainment venues, and most major cities. Also place of infrastructure such as power plants, nuclear facilities, water treatment, etc. Lesser places but just as important are churches and synagogues.

For those who never saw the news a Marine SgtMaj was on a flight from Tokyo to Houston when he noted a man behaving weirdly. He watch him pace up and down the aisle of the plane from restroom to restroom. Finally he settled near an emergency exit. When he reached for the door to try and open it the SgtMaj jumped him and tackled him with the help of another passenger. Then with the help of the attendants they managed to restrain him with zip ties and the flight was diverted to Seattle where the man was removed before the flight continued.

I have been in contact with SgtMaj Armentrout since the incident. He is a humble man and shies away from the recognition but I for one am grateful for what he did. My son lives in Tokyo and travels often between Japan and the US. He could have well been on that flight, but fortunately was not. Even so he flew into the US a week ago and in another week will be flying back. Yes, I am concerned about his flights now more than ever as planes make great targets that get a lot of attention.

That being said, we know Iran still has parts to play in the end time and for all intents and purposes their parts are not as heroes but as villains. So with that in mind along side current events, please remain vigilant to your surroundings when you are out and about. Keep watch for people acting strangely maybe looking over places like buildings, equipment where they don't seem to belong. Watch for nervous behavior of people as individuals or maybe small groups. If you see something that does not seem right, remove yourself from the area as quickly and safely as possible. Trust your gut when it tries to warn you.

We are not done yet seeing Iran in the news. They will pop back up again sooner or later. I am praying for later but... Hold fast to your faith but also be alert to your surroundings.

Prov 27:12 The prudent sees danger and hides himself, but the simple go on and suffer for it.
Prov 14:16 One who is wise is cautious and turns away from evil, but a fool is reckless and careless.
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
2 Tim 3:1-5 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

These are just some of the warnings. Now for the promises

Psalm 91:1-16 He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will abide in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say to the Lord, “My refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.” For he will deliver you from the snare of the fowler and from the deadly pestilence. He will cover you with his pinions, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness is a shield and buckler. You will not fear the terror of the night, nor the arrow that flies by day, ...
Psalm 121:7-8 The Lord will keep you from all evil; he will keep your life. The Lord will keep your going out and your coming in from this time forth and forevermore.
Prov 3:25-26 Do not be afraid of sudden terror or of the ruin of the wicked, when it comes, for the Lord will be your confidence and will keep your foot from being caught.

Be alert but don't let fear rule your days. Caution will keep you from many struggles and those that come anyway we have a way out through Jesus.

​

 

[Hol]

We are not done yet seeing Iran in the news. They will pop back up again sooner or later. I am praying for later but... Hold fast to your faith but also be alert to your surroundings.

Nice to have you posting again @Shinobi

 

[Margery]

Ok I am not going to get into the Ezekiel and Jeremiah aspect for time. I will say that what we think we see in the Middle East is not what prophecy says the ultimate end will be. Two points to ponder. First is Islam specifically what the Shia in Iran believe. According to their own words, the Mahdi will not arrive until Israel is no more. They desperately want their Mahdi to come so they will never stop trying to remove Israel and kill all its people. Second it is listed in the numbers of countries that will eventually come against Israel not once but several times. No it is not called Iran in scripture, but it is called Persian and Elam. That being said we can fully expect that this temporary ceased fire is just that temporary. They may low for a while giving themselves time to replenish missile stocks develop longer range missiles and more powerful ones maybe even to the level of a tactical nuke.

So where does that put the world. For one it keeps the US hopefully in a very watchful mode. It is pretty well known that during the open borders under Biden an number of Iranians snuck into the US, others were allowed to be released freely without tracking their movements. It is said that out of some 1500 or so Irainians that entered in the last year under Biden nearly half that number were released into the US. Some of those have now proven to be possible attackers. One I heard has direct ties to Hezbollah. Simply put depending on where you live be watchful.

As I have told others, places of concern are large gathering area, malls, park, entertainment venues, and most major cities. Also place of infrastructure such as power plant, nuclear facilities, water treatment, etc. Lessor places but just as important are churches and synagogues.

For those who never saw the news a Marine SgtMaj was on a flight from Tokyo to Houston when he noted a many behaving weird. He watch him pace up and down the aisle of the plane from restroom to restroom. Finally he settle near and emergency exit. When he reached for the door to try and open it the SgtMaj jumped him tackled him and with the help of another passenger. Then with the help of the attendants they managed to restrain him with zip ties and the flight was diverted to Seattle where the man was removed before the flight continued.

I have been in contact with SgtMaj Armentrout since the incident. He is a humble man and shies away from the recognition but I for one and grateful for what he did. My son lives in Tokyo and travels often between the Japan and the US. He could have well be on that flight but fortunately was not. Even so he flew into the US a week ago and in another week will be flying back. Yes I am concerned about his flights now more than ever as planes make great targets that get a lot of attention.

That being said, we know Iran still has parts to play in the end time and for all intents and purposes their parts are not as heroes but as villains. So with that in mind along side current events, please remain vigilant to you surroundings when you are out and about. Keep watch for people acting strangely maybe looking over places like buildings, equipment where they don't seem to belong. Watch for nervous behavior of people as individuals or may small groups. If you see something that does not seem right, remove yourself from the area as quickly and safely as possible. Trust your gut when it tries to warn you.

We are not done yet seeing Iran in the news. They will pop back up again sooner or later. I am praying for later but... Hold fast to your faith but also be alert to your surroundings.

Prov 27:12 The prudent sees danger and hides himself, but the simple go on and suffer for it.
Prov 14:16 One who is wise is cautious and turns away from evil, but a fool is reckless and careless.
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
2 Tim 3:1-5 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

These are just some of the warnings. Now for the promises

Psalm 91:1-16 He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will abide in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say to the Lord, “My refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.” For he will deliver you from the snare of the fowler and from the deadly pestilence. He will cover you with his pinions, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness is a shield and buckler. You will not fear the terror of the night, nor the arrow that flies by day, ...
Psalm 121:7-8 The Lord will keep you from all evil; he will keep your life. The Lord will keep your going out and your coming in from this time forth and forevermore.
Prov 3:25-26 Do not be afraid of sudden terror or of the ruin of the wicked, when it comes, for the Lord will be your confidence and will keep your foot from being caught.

Be alert but don't let fear rule your days. Caution will keep you from many struggles and those that come anyway we have a way out through Jesus.

​

EXCELLENT post brother, and it IS good to see you post!

I'm glad this thread came back up, because I need to point out that after the initial bombing by Israel which targeted the area of Elam in the west and some of ancient Assyria in the north of modern Iran, they then focused more on the area of ancient Persia- which eliminated the idea of Jeremiah 49/Ezek 32 which outlines the destruction of Elam.

The nuke sites at Fordow, and Natanz and Isfahan were where the US assisted Israel using the B2s with their MOPS bombs. The only one of the 3 sites that is even close to being in Elam is Isfahan, and it's at the border area where ancient Elam and Persia overlapped. So Isfahan alone was a possible Elam site, the rest not.

So Jeremiah 49/Ezek 32 is out of the picture for now.

 

[mattfivefour]

I agree-- this is an excellent post. Thank you, brother.

 

[Shinobi]

EXCELLENT post brother, and it IS good to see you post!

I'm glad this thread came back up, because I need to point out that after the initial bombing by Israel which targeted the area of Elam in the west and some of ancient Assyria in the north of modern Iran, they then focused more on the area of ancient Persia- which eliminated the idea of Jeremiah 49/Ezek 32 which outlines the destruction of Elam.

The nuke sites at Fordow, and Natanz and Isfahan were where the US assisted Israel using the B2s with their MOPS bombs. The only one of the 3 sites that is even close to being in Elam is Isfahan, and it's at the border area where ancient Elam and Persia overlapped. So Isfahan alone was a possible Elam site, the rest not.

So Jeremiah 49/Ezek 32 is out of the picture for now.

I mention Elam because that was target area that Israel hit. I was taking into account the whole of areas that both Israel and the US hit.