Yes, it goes by fast, 10 years for me.
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Considering 2024 - Is The World Ripe For Rapture?
- Thread starter Goodboy
- Start date
It was 2014 for me when I had a thought one day that perhaps there was a site that might focus on Rapture. I found RF and RR, and eventually landed here.
And we are so glad that you did! In fact Andrea and I are so glad that all of you have landed here. This site is the blessing it is for two reasons. The first and fundamental one is that God designed and inspired it; the second is that you're all part of it. The koinonía here is the true mark of a true church and blesses everyone who shares in it.
Mainly due to my wife’s MS over the last 14 years, leading to a very limited social life, between RR,RF, and now this forum, it’s been my primary social life. Fellowship with all the members has been excellent over the past decade.
Iron sharpens iron, and I know I have learned a lot from all of you over the years.
Now, time to go Home, and it would be right NOW if it were up to me.
There have been several times in the past where I was convinced I was right in regards to certain prophetic events. Turns out I was wrong. Often times it can be easy to mistake thoughts I have with what I thought were teachings from the Holy Spirit. So if I believe something I think is coming from Him, and it turns out to be incorrect, then IMO, it cant be from Him.
TCC
Well-known
I hear that. I think it is healthy to see that. I think its a blessing to see that brother. Be willing to see how God is not in something. Imagine if those better known in the watcher community did that. It would actually be healing to the body of Christ I believe.
Hey I don't know if you ever watch or watched God Rules YouTube channel? Tony has been a YT watcher from way back. I don't agree with some of his more Michael Heiser takes on some things, and in my journey have discovered the whole Enoch thing to be not from God. But the way he talks. The way he shows how he reasons through the scripture was note worthy for me.
Recently he brought up several unusual angles as he does and showed in scripture why he believes as he does. When I watch him, of course I am interested in considering some aspects of how some conventional views Christendom has might be conditioned thinking to a degree. But what I found myself honestly being washed over by was how unbelievably graceful his "thought process" demonstrated to me a very thoughtful kind mature mind. I've seen it in other ways with him over the years. But last night, and I was not even looking for this, he would share thing after thing where I would generally expect a kind of rigid insistence or semi-back burner scolding to be a part of his delivery (in part because to some degree it likely has gotten perhaps even into the grammar structure of typical end times approaches--in general...not saying everyone). But Andy, totally brother, like I would practically use the word "holy" to describe what seemed to be a very wholesome care to how he so innocently seemed to share things. To the degree it caught me off guard in several places.
I guess what that might indicate to some degree is that I am used to hearing points some might land on from perhaps less seasoned or rounded thought processes? lol. Honestly, it was almost weird. Because I certainly don't think a lot of his views come from truth. But sometimes I think a guy like that can uncover some interesting perspectives from how he is looking at stuff.
So i guess in general, just speaking from watching my own kinds of organic responses to things, I imagine there will be quite a number of things that come to us not from God we might otherwise consider as really being in sync with Him. In a way I think I'm somewhat ok with that because it seems to be extremely common. But I guess what stands out more to me these days is how 1 Cor 13 principles make something profitable. Maybe the ideas expressed be off, but the value of spiritual principles contained in expression might be every bit as valuable on several levels transcending even what is being said or affirmed. Like a loving graciousness. What is from God is the romantic super hero quality of love making "whatever" profitable. As a former card carrying memeber of the pitbulls without leashes society (a spirit that might be super eager to be more on the footing of "ready, shoot, aim"...and in that order), I do concur though with your concern (at least as where I also see concerns too). That it is good to be aware moreso of "what is of God."
AT ITS CORE
At its core, where I am coming from is I have seen an unusual twin concept over the past many decades. The reformed circles I ran in supercharge "what is of God and what is not." And enforced those concepts deeply. The twin? Well, there is also a very real and true side to it. There are quite a number of things that man may halfhazardly employ that is a good thing of God, but damaging in the way mankind might use it. So to mistake that proverbial baby with the bathwater has developed in me over the years as a neurois of sorts. So yeah, I do have quite a bit of empathy and passion, even, about us being willing to consider how much our viewpoints might be from God or not. Or of God or not. Amen.
I believe your bringing it up brother is just something you notice that is discussion worthy. Amen. And a likely conclusion could be that it is likely no one will see accurately the rapture coming. Amen. And perhaps that is a healing takeaway. Its just for me, I have seen in circles that kind of thinking too can become dogmatic. Sometimes, yes, in helpful ways. And sometimes not so helpful. But I understand, I believe, the blood flow of concern. And yeah for sure we should not be all about having one illusion about prophecy after another after another and then just call it a day. Lol. I realize wow, that would aspire to live in folly. And that is a super genuine concern. I believe I am kind of more about us not landing too dogmatically too soon though. I don't mean for that to mean that I believe being a super hero against clarity or being a staunch defender of milquetoast to be a cabinet with force in the presidency of our own lives. From the cuff I would say I believe we can know a whole lot more about rapture timing than we might think. That is my position. That is my deep seated conviction. Aside from of course that potentially being absolutely wrong, I just bring that up to say that I'm not intending to come from mediocrity as a way of meadoring through prophecy. But actually in honor of celebrating a core concern of yours. And that we can bask in uncertainty of it all, and be ok with that. As I would view that take as incredibly honorable. On the surface though, I reckon the bulk of my intension is to agree to the extent I would share with your concern, but not at the expense of where we might actually have a potential to better understand rapture timing.
Saying that in the midst of the genuine appreciation of honest appraisal of where we can get things a miss and they not be from God though we sense they might have, can tend to dilute seemingly the importance of just recognizing our temporality in meekness. Yes. I could see that. Not that you are saying that even. But yeah not wanting to drown out the simple clarity of how wrong we can be even from sincere points of view. Because I see that as noble. For sure. I guess what I see that though can and to also do in our climate is how it can subtly suggest that we may not come to be aware of some things too I guess. I believe there is an extreme amount of complication to get to best clarity. So I don't think its easy necessarily to land here or there so much. But I guess the best way to express where I'm coming from in this is that since we live in a day and age where it appears God to be demonstrating His character toward a generation possibly primed for the greatest hardship to hit planet earth, that being the case I believe would suggest a potentially far more knowable pace in Him to be alive in. And I may not be too certain exactly what all that might mean, entertaining notions of our propensity to think things are from God when are not--would not be a more potent thing than the affluence of insight peraps gained from the character of one very willing to disclose Himself to His creation. Perhaps knowing how that works and to what degree it actually be a challenge, we may not know. But perhaps what we can know is His willingness toward His creation. And that that might be quite a bit more in play than whether whatever else we think we might conclude to be. Blessings.
TCC
Well-known
I just had one follow up thing on this. Because it impacted me a lot about one year back. Wow how time flies...lol. So a year ago there was a presumption by some in the YT watcher community that December 2023 marked a time likely for the tribulation age to begin. This was well lined up with what Craig Bong understood to be with the Unitied Nations charters in play--and their 7 year recipe contrast they got there throwing around. At that time, a dear sister of mine online became utterly shocked when she found herself waking up to a watcher Christianity world that was in the earnest practice of throwing things against the wall and seeing what stuck. As a mode of modern day prophecy discernement. She was so shocked, it changed her trust across the board as to any relevance the watcher community could offer. For to her it seemed not much more than financiers predicting the stock market. Only financiers know they are only offering good guess projections. But in the watcher world many a watchers are not seemingly overly concerned to what degree it might be assumed that God "might be in this ya'll." And by promixity to its hopeful accuracy, some seeming to potentially benefit from the appearance of being at the saltiest end of the prophecy soup pool. And this sort of thing seems to be trending to a norm in watcherdom generically. Of which I am glad to also see some alternative otherwise known as "spirit of the age" sensibilities like social media to inadvertantly cross correct overly heightened expectation in the watcher world now...moreso, by that common man theme in social media: just be yourself. Be organic. Don't need to put stuff on it. For that spirit of the age seems to be infecting the watcher movement too. And in that sense, I would see that spirit of the age be 'the thing that is not" while the watcher world at large might be more comfortable wading in the waters of "God is in my thought's ya'll...just go with it." And I bring this up because I think it is pertinent to where likely some of your heart might be considering. At least it would be for me. In all of this, I am reminded of what Paul might look like in our age: 2 Cor 12:6 "For if I do wish to boast I will not be foolish, for I will be speaking the truth; but I refrain from this, so that no one will credit me with more than he sees in me or hears from me." I believe this would be the heart of Paul in our age. But the watcher scales (not always) can tend to be more borrowing from it being ok perhaps to think more of them. Some. And it would seem it be somewhat even of a sociological norm in ways.
So in the above case, yeah I would see a clear sense of healthy sav come from those that don't know Christ to serve best those that do. In that even though the ripe wine whose time has come for judgement (the world), its more "created in the image of God" essense seems to be creeping over into the church. And I think that is actually an awesomely great thing. I mean we are used to the concern of new age thought cross over into the church from the world. And we are correct to have that concern. But it is less discussed from what I have seen that we are actually super blessed by what has taken America, the West, and much of the world by storm: Being our authentic selves. As a contrast perhaps to the utter commerciality (from early periods in our history) coprate mindedness had the ability to manicanize the world. And make plastic look real and beautiful. And the organic world pushed back and seems to be gaining steam. Not without sin in the mix for sure. But just in seeing how powerful the "created in the image of God" aspects of mankind have evolved in the spirit of our age, we can see that becoming more human, humane, and more real has become a very attractive thing and preferrable theme even where advertising and marketing had otherwise wanted to turn consumers somewhat into drones for their products. And this "thing that is not" push back from the world, to me, is glorious. And, if we will, perhaps even included in "the spirit of prophecy" as part of its mission might include eroding some high minded aspects found within the watcher world. In that case, it would be that which is inate in humanity as having been created by God that might in many ways usurp the sensitivities and insights of the believing end time world. Just to try and put that in a can of something so we could look at its ingredients is pretty wild in and of itself, no doubt. But I don't bring this up for its own sake. But for the sake of what seems to be at your core care here.
THE SISTER THA"T GOT AWAY
Now this sister is still a very strong believer. And spends her time not online but in her community (church) and reaching out to the lost and raising her daghtter with her husband. All super commendable. But it was extremely note worthy for me at the time to see her utter shock and dismay when the watcher world not only let her down but seemed to feed her misinfo like Q or something...lol. I could see almost a profound sense of really honestly looking for that which is right in the world and not seeing that so in much of the watcher community at large--or I mean to the degree it might propher to be. To me, I guess by that time I was kind of immune to it all. For example, there is a guy that puts out awesome videos called Ty Green. I've actually grown greatly fond of his videos. But originally I had quite an issue with him. Because he seemed so certain over what to me amounted to nothing more than conjecture. So it had the air of "does this guy think he is a prophet or something?" And it kind of ruined the whole experience for me...lol. But a Continueist brother of mine showed me where Ty Green did highlight he could be wrong and it was more like Ty was into living in the moment of his considerations giving that full monte to the viewer. And then, yeah you decide. Well, love hopes all things. So because of that I started to see the lighter side to Ty. But pound for pound, we live in a watcher world where the tendency seems to be "just go along like you might be a prophet in case you are," motif. Which for me would "never" be acceptable. But that is kind of the atmosphere we live and move and have our being in today. So to see the zietguist of hey, yo, just be yourself-ism contrast that...kind of winks at just how powefully much God might be in at least as much providentially as we might see in our view upon end times scriptures. For His very signature in all that is kind of unmistakable. At least from what I have witnessed in my little corner of the world.
In any event, this sister was in shock. And even after it would seem it not possible for Craig Bong to actually admit he might be off. In part, I appreciate his deep research in the United Nations history and current trajectory. For he brings much to the table. But I would confess that to me it would seem like we are in an age of perhaps patting eachother on the blackness over and above prestine approaches to His word. And that bothers me. For the sake of this sister. But also for like what this might say about what we in our age might be becoming if we don't find some anchors pretty soon. So I see your concern as soberly noticing we all need anchors. Amen.
But in my final thought on this I would just say that even though I would see great paragidigms of how God moves in Providence transcending what the end time church might even make of it, seeing this very phenomenon is a sober warning on all sides, I believe. Even on, and maybe especially on (because of the potential to do prophecy by spinning the bottle strategeis inherent) how God might actually speak through providence as loud or louder than verses perhaps within our heads and hearts these days. For that view could go 10x more in the wrong direction than playing Scrabble or Twister with the word perhaps. But one thing it does not seem to totally do away with is that God does leave His signature. And we as believers are at the front of that line, should we accept this mission of which that message might be self disctructing in 5 seconds. Joe Rogen recently said on air that Goerge Soros seems like a villan in a Batman Comic. So like, what filter goes with seeing end time prophecy through an affirmed status quo end time world that literally has Batman comicbook style villains in it? This reminds me of 1 Cor 1:20 -- where is the sage of our age by whom knows in what world that decoder ring works alright? The best I can tell is it is totally reasonable to consider that "the thing that is not" is at least reasonably in play. And although there is much danger in placing overconfidence in a decoder ring of sorts, to not realize the degree to which "the thing that is not" is already at play today, would likely end us up in some garden verieity common trajectory of offness-ism. It might seem. So although this is probably more like entering a dreamscape of non-clarity and not too helpful in that sense. I would hope at least it might suggest that the character of God upon our day likely has significant value over human themes. Even prophetically understood ones to a degree. And for us, that is probably quite a bit of homework. But to me it would seem not so that he who has put the most homework in wins. But rather it would seem to be more of a soul searching genre. One of which probably means all the more for me, in light of a tendcy I might have in proverbially throwing out the baby with the bathwater. But I am willing, in the likes of concerns at this core I believe you bring up concerning. Blessings.
So in the above case, yeah I would see a clear sense of healthy sav come from those that don't know Christ to serve best those that do. In that even though the ripe wine whose time has come for judgement (the world), its more "created in the image of God" essense seems to be creeping over into the church. And I think that is actually an awesomely great thing. I mean we are used to the concern of new age thought cross over into the church from the world. And we are correct to have that concern. But it is less discussed from what I have seen that we are actually super blessed by what has taken America, the West, and much of the world by storm: Being our authentic selves. As a contrast perhaps to the utter commerciality (from early periods in our history) coprate mindedness had the ability to manicanize the world. And make plastic look real and beautiful. And the organic world pushed back and seems to be gaining steam. Not without sin in the mix for sure. But just in seeing how powerful the "created in the image of God" aspects of mankind have evolved in the spirit of our age, we can see that becoming more human, humane, and more real has become a very attractive thing and preferrable theme even where advertising and marketing had otherwise wanted to turn consumers somewhat into drones for their products. And this "thing that is not" push back from the world, to me, is glorious. And, if we will, perhaps even included in "the spirit of prophecy" as part of its mission might include eroding some high minded aspects found within the watcher world. In that case, it would be that which is inate in humanity as having been created by God that might in many ways usurp the sensitivities and insights of the believing end time world. Just to try and put that in a can of something so we could look at its ingredients is pretty wild in and of itself, no doubt. But I don't bring this up for its own sake. But for the sake of what seems to be at your core care here.
THE SISTER THA"T GOT AWAY
Now this sister is still a very strong believer. And spends her time not online but in her community (church) and reaching out to the lost and raising her daghtter with her husband. All super commendable. But it was extremely note worthy for me at the time to see her utter shock and dismay when the watcher world not only let her down but seemed to feed her misinfo like Q or something...lol. I could see almost a profound sense of really honestly looking for that which is right in the world and not seeing that so in much of the watcher community at large--or I mean to the degree it might propher to be. To me, I guess by that time I was kind of immune to it all. For example, there is a guy that puts out awesome videos called Ty Green. I've actually grown greatly fond of his videos. But originally I had quite an issue with him. Because he seemed so certain over what to me amounted to nothing more than conjecture. So it had the air of "does this guy think he is a prophet or something?" And it kind of ruined the whole experience for me...lol. But a Continueist brother of mine showed me where Ty Green did highlight he could be wrong and it was more like Ty was into living in the moment of his considerations giving that full monte to the viewer. And then, yeah you decide. Well, love hopes all things. So because of that I started to see the lighter side to Ty. But pound for pound, we live in a watcher world where the tendency seems to be "just go along like you might be a prophet in case you are," motif. Which for me would "never" be acceptable. But that is kind of the atmosphere we live and move and have our being in today. So to see the zietguist of hey, yo, just be yourself-ism contrast that...kind of winks at just how powefully much God might be in at least as much providentially as we might see in our view upon end times scriptures. For His very signature in all that is kind of unmistakable. At least from what I have witnessed in my little corner of the world.
In any event, this sister was in shock. And even after it would seem it not possible for Craig Bong to actually admit he might be off. In part, I appreciate his deep research in the United Nations history and current trajectory. For he brings much to the table. But I would confess that to me it would seem like we are in an age of perhaps patting eachother on the blackness over and above prestine approaches to His word. And that bothers me. For the sake of this sister. But also for like what this might say about what we in our age might be becoming if we don't find some anchors pretty soon. So I see your concern as soberly noticing we all need anchors. Amen.
But in my final thought on this I would just say that even though I would see great paragidigms of how God moves in Providence transcending what the end time church might even make of it, seeing this very phenomenon is a sober warning on all sides, I believe. Even on, and maybe especially on (because of the potential to do prophecy by spinning the bottle strategeis inherent) how God might actually speak through providence as loud or louder than verses perhaps within our heads and hearts these days. For that view could go 10x more in the wrong direction than playing Scrabble or Twister with the word perhaps. But one thing it does not seem to totally do away with is that God does leave His signature. And we as believers are at the front of that line, should we accept this mission of which that message might be self disctructing in 5 seconds. Joe Rogen recently said on air that Goerge Soros seems like a villan in a Batman Comic. So like, what filter goes with seeing end time prophecy through an affirmed status quo end time world that literally has Batman comicbook style villains in it? This reminds me of 1 Cor 1:20 -- where is the sage of our age by whom knows in what world that decoder ring works alright? The best I can tell is it is totally reasonable to consider that "the thing that is not" is at least reasonably in play. And although there is much danger in placing overconfidence in a decoder ring of sorts, to not realize the degree to which "the thing that is not" is already at play today, would likely end us up in some garden verieity common trajectory of offness-ism. It might seem. So although this is probably more like entering a dreamscape of non-clarity and not too helpful in that sense. I would hope at least it might suggest that the character of God upon our day likely has significant value over human themes. Even prophetically understood ones to a degree. And for us, that is probably quite a bit of homework. But to me it would seem not so that he who has put the most homework in wins. But rather it would seem to be more of a soul searching genre. One of which probably means all the more for me, in light of a tendcy I might have in proverbially throwing out the baby with the bathwater. But I am willing, in the likes of concerns at this core I believe you bring up concerning. Blessings.
I don't think that anybody is ever going to get it right. Until it happens.
I think one of the problems is our view of what it means to watch. I do not believe it means walking around looking up in the sky or burying ourselves in prophetic scriptures, trying to anticipate every sign that could indicate that some specific moment will be the day. Rather, I believe that the Bible teaches that the focus of watching is to be prepared.
So for me the bottom line is to seek God everyday, to focus one's life around one's relationship with Him, and to ask continually for His power to fulfill His two commandments: to love Him with everything in us and to love one another as He loved us. Being zealous for the Lord, seeking to obey Him and please Him, is the actual meaning of "watching". It means seeing that we are prepared for His coming ... whenever that may be.
I think one of the problems is our view of what it means to watch. I do not believe it means walking around looking up in the sky or burying ourselves in prophetic scriptures, trying to anticipate every sign that could indicate that some specific moment will be the day. Rather, I believe that the Bible teaches that the focus of watching is to be prepared.
So for me the bottom line is to seek God everyday, to focus one's life around one's relationship with Him, and to ask continually for His power to fulfill His two commandments: to love Him with everything in us and to love one another as He loved us. Being zealous for the Lord, seeking to obey Him and please Him, is the actual meaning of "watching". It means seeing that we are prepared for His coming ... whenever that may be.
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