Why Will the World Worship the Antichrist?

[Douggg]

It still is not clear to me what you mean by “The five stages the person will go through on the way to his destruction in the lake of fire are....”

Those who are destined to the lake of fire will either - take the MOB, or refuse to believe in Jesus as their Savior.

Hi Andy C,

Let me try to make an analogy of the five stages.

Let's say a person becomes a city council member, then becomes a mayor, then becomes a governor, then becomes a senator, then finally becomes the President of the United States.

It is the same person all the way through those five stages, but each stage is functionally different.

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Yes, persons who take the mark of the beast's name, his name name, or the number of his name are destined for the lake of fire. Also persons who reject Jesus's death on the cross as atonement for their sins.

 

[KMendel]

Having married into a Jewish family ...... who were not particularly devout ...... I did learn that they expect a Jewish person to come as their messiah.
They unequivically say he will be "just a man", nothing special..... and he will have answers anmd solve issues. Yes, Douggg, in their minds he must be Jewish. I tend to agree with you. He may not claim to be Jewish to the world - I don't know - but, his ancestry thru his mother will most likely come out at some point.

Andy, I don't think Douggg is talking at all about the people en masse............he is talking about one particular person,,,,,,,,,,the antichrist in his different incarnations, maybe,

 

[Andy C]

Hi Andy C,

Let me try to make an analogy of the five stages.

Let's say a person becomes a city council member, then becomes a mayor, then becomes a governor, then becomes a senator, then finally becomes the President of the United States.

It is the same person all the way through those five stages, but each stage is functionally different.

------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, persons who take the mark of the beast's name, his name name, or the number of his name are destined for the lake of fire. Also persons who reject Jesus's death on the cross as atonement for their sins.

These are not stages to the lake of fire, but simply events. What do the below events have to do with an individual destined to the lake of fire? There are no stages to the LOF, simply lack of belief in Jesus or the taking MOB will punch their ticket to the LOF.

As the little horn person over a group of ten EU leaders.

2. then as the prince that shall come, into the middle east, following the Gog/Magog event.

3. then as the Antichrist, anointed as the King of Israel, messiah (by the false prophet who the Jews will initially think is the embodiment of Elijah who they are are expecting to come and be a part of the messianic age). Note that the person has to be a Jew for the Jews to think he is their long awaited messiah.

4. then as the revealed man of sin, by the act in 2Thesslaonians2:4, claiming to have achieved God-hood. The Jews will reject his claim and his continuation as their King of Israel. End of his Antichrist stage.

5. then as the beast-king, brought back to life (Isaiah 14:18-20) after being assassinated (Ezekiel 28:1-10). It will be in the beast-king stage, that he will be worshiped because it will appear that he overcame death, validating his claim of having achieved God-hood. Revelation 13:3-4.

 

[Douggg]

These are not stages to the lake of fire, but simply events. What do the below events have to do with an individual destined to the lake of fire? There are no stages to the LOF, simply lack of belief in Jesus or the taking MOB will punch their ticket to the LOF.

As the little horn person over a group of ten EU leaders.

2. then as the prince that shall come, into the middle east, following the Gog/Magog event.

3. then as the Antichrist, anointed as the King of Israel, messiah (by the false prophet who the Jews will initially think is the embodiment of Elijah who they are are expecting to come and be a part of the messianic age). Note that the person has to be a Jew for the Jews to think he is their long awaited messiah.

4. then as the revealed man of sin, by the act in 2Thesslaonians2:4, claiming to have achieved God-hood. The Jews will reject his claim and his continuation as their King of Israel. End of his Antichrist stage.

5. then as the beast-king, brought back to life (Isaiah 14:18-20) after being assassinated (Ezekiel 28:1-10). It will be in the beast-king stage, that he will be worshiped because it will appear that he overcame death, validating his claim of having achieved God-hood. Revelation 13:3-4.

Hi Andy C.

The 5 stages I presented are only for that single individual person. And do not apply to anyone else who ends up in the lake of fire.

Regarding events, those involve masses of people. Events like the Gog/Magog attack on Israel. Events like the great tribulation period. Which contains events like the 7 trumpet judgements and the 7 vials of God's wrath judgments.

Andy, I have made many many timeline charts of end time events. But the forum rules do not permit posting of those in order to conserve computer space for the forum to operate smoothly.

 

[Andy C]

The 5 stages I presented are only for that single individual person.

Thanks, thats what was confusing to me. Its only for the AC, those 5 stages.

 

[Andy C]

Jesus, the true Christ, was a Jew. The Antichrist, a false Christ that the Jews will temporarily think is their long awaited King of Israel messiah, must be a Jew in order that they embrace him as their King of Israel.

Part of my background (I am 76) is that I have participated at a Jewish countermissionary forum (called "Virtual Yeshiva", my screen name there as well as at Christian discussion forums such as Worth Christians, Christianity Board, Christians Forums is "Douggg" as well).

At the Virtual Yeshiva site, I have made over 3000 posts since 2004 asking the Jews (Judaism) questions about what they believe.

The Jews (Judaism) are looking for their messiah (someone other than Jesus, who they view - in their terms - as a "failed messiah"). The Antichrist will temporarily fulfill their expectations.

The below from Jack Kelley is certainly a possibility:

“It’s important to remember that only believing Jews will reject the anti-Christ, and they won’t do this until he claims to be God, at the beginning of the Great Tribulation. Prior to that time, the anti-Christ will appear to fulfill all of Israel’s desires. Chief among these will be giving them the go-ahead for their Temple. And in their history, another foreign king, Cyrus of Persia, was called a messiah (anointed one) by God in Isaiah 45:1. He also helped the Jews rebuild their Temple. So there is precedent for a non-Jewish King to be thought of as a messiah.

Also in Ezekiel 44:7-8 there’s a prophecy that upon His return, the Lord will accuse Israel of putting foreigners, uncircumcised in heart or flesh, in charge of His sanctuary during the Great Tribulation. I see this as a reference to the anti-Christ and the false prophet. Therefore I don’t think it will be necessary for the anti-Christ to be Jewish”

Must The Anti-Christ Be Jewish? – Grace thru faith

gracethrufaith.com

 

[Douggg]

The below from Jack Kelley is certainly a possibility:

“It’s important to remember that only believing Jews will reject the anti-Christ, and they won’t do this until he claims to be God, at the beginning of the Great Tribulation. Prior to that time, the anti-Christ will appear to fulfill all of Israel’s desires. Chief among these will be giving them the go-ahead for their Temple. And in their history, another foreign king, Cyrus of Persia, was called a messiah (anointed one) by God in Isaiah 45:1. He also helped the Jews rebuild their Temple. So there is precedent for a non-Jewish King to be thought of as a messiah.

Also in Ezekiel 44:7-8 there’s a prophecy that upon His return, the Lord will accuse Israel of putting foreigners, uncircumcised in heart or flesh, in charge of His sanctuary during the Great Tribulation. I see this as a reference to the anti-Christ and the false prophet. Therefore I don’t think it will be necessary for the anti-Christ to be Jewish”

Must The Anti-Christ Be Jewish? – Grace thru faith

gracethrufaith.com

Hi Andy, the last 8 chapters of Ezekiel - 40-48 are very difficult to understand. I am not sure if those chapters are prophecies about the second temple that would be built once the Jews returned from the Babylonian captivity. Or if they are end times chapters.

I don't think there is enough clarity in Ezekiel 44 that those passages are talking about the end times great tribulation period or not.

I think the thing to look for to validate that the Antichrist person will be a Jew or not a Jew, will be when the person, as the little horn, becomes the leader of a group of ten EU leaders.

 

[Andy C]

Hi Andy, the last 8 chapters of Ezekiel - 40-48 are very difficult to understand. I am not sure if those chapters are prophecies about the second temple that would be built once the Jews returned from the Babylonian captivity. Or if they are end times chapters.

I don't think there is enough clarity in Ezekiel 44 that those passages are talking about the end times great tribulation period or not.

I think the thing to look for to validate that the Antichrist person will be a Jew or not a Jew, will be when the person, as the little horn, becomes the leader of a group of ten EU leaders.

Do you believe the ten kingdoms will form before the rapture, or after the rapture in the gap of time between the rapture and the start of the tribulation?

 

[Douggg]

Do you believe the ten kingdoms will form before the rapture, or after the rapture in the gap of time between the rapture and the start of the tribulation?

HI Andy, my rapture timing view is that the rapture could happen at anytime - anytime between right this very second until the day that the Antichrist goes and sits in the temple (2Thessalonians2:4) at the latest.

So, in my view, the commonly called pre-trib rapture others believe in could happen as they anticipate or it may not.

There may or may not be a gap between when the rapture takes place and the start of the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27 takes place.

The one event that can be known to take place right before the 7 year 70th week begins is the Gog/Magog attack on Israel.

I think for the rapture the key is - to be watching and ready. God bless.

 

[Batman]

I wonder if the 10 kingdoms will be in place whether fully recognized / accepted by Christians as such while we are still waiting for the rapture IF the antichrist is supposed to step up at the start of the trib into power with the covenant and also have or will shortly subdue 3 out of an initial 10 kingdoms, and then rule over the remaining seven, along with the three that were conquered......but it's easy for me to get jumbled / confused when trying to sort out stuff like this.

 

[Andy C]

I wonder if the 10 kingdoms will be in place whether fully recognized / accepted by Christians as such while we are still waiting for the rapture IF the antichrist is supposed to step up at the start of the trib into power with the covenant and also have or will shortly subdue 3 out of an initial 10 kingdoms, and then rule over the remaining seven, along with the three that were conquered......but it's easy for me to get jumbled / confused when trying to sort out stuff like this.

Scripture is not clear on when the ten kingdoms form other than its before the start of the tribulation. I tend to believe the ten kingdoms will form after the rapture, but before the start of the tribulation. The world is moving closer to forming a OWG now, but I dont believe the church and the ten kingdoms can coexist at the same time. It’s possible, or perhaps highly likely the rapture with the disappearance of hundreds of millions around the globe will cause the world to suddenly want to form together. Global leadership will have a power vacuum that will need to be filled. The dark one will come out of those kingdoms, seizing power, which many will accept as the new world leader.

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

Scripture is not clear on when the ten kingdoms form other than its before the start of the tribulation. I tend to believe the ten kingdoms will form after the rapture, but before the start of the tribulation. The world is moving closer to forming a OWG now, but I dont believe the church and the ten kingdoms can coexist at the same time. It’s possible, or perhaps highly likely the rapture with the disappearance of hundreds of millions around the globe will cause the world to suddenly want to form together. Global leadership will have a power vacuum that will need to be filled. The dark one will come out of those kingdoms, seizing power, which many will accept as the new world leader.

TT HOLD HOLD LOL

 

[Hol]

From an article by Tommy Ice is this:

“Even though some believe that the phrase in Daniel 11:37 “the God of his fathers” (KJV), implies a Jewish apostasy, the phrase is more accurately translated “the gods of his fathers” (NASB). Since Antichrist will in fact be a Gentile, as will be shown below, the argument is unfounded.

Since the original Hebrew supports the NASB translation and not the KJV, Antichrist’s apostasy will be Christian and not Jewish.

ARGUMENTS FOR A GENTILE ANTICHRIST

We have seen that the Bible does not teach that Antichrist will be Jewish. However, Scripture does teach that he will be of Gentile and possibly of Roman descent (at least from the Revived Roman Empire).

This can first be seen from biblical typology. Most commentators agree that Daniel 11 speaks of Antiochus Epiphanes, a Gentile, who typifies the future Antichrist.

“Nowhere is a Gentile ever seen as a type of Christ; and for good reason too since Christ Himself was to be a Jew.” Since Antiochus is a Gentile, then so will be Antichrist. Secondly, biblical imagery supports a Gentile origin of Antichrist. Scripture pictures Antichrist as rising up out of the sea (Rev. 13:1; 17:15). In prophetic literature the sea is an image of the Gentile nations. Thus, Antichrist is seen as a Gentile progeny.

Thirdly, the nature of the “Times of the Gentiles” (Luke 21:24) supports a Gentile Antichrist. Fruchtenbaum notes:

It is agreed by all premillennialists that the period known as the Times of the Gentiles does not end until the second coming of Christ. It is further agreed that the Antichrist is the final ruler of the Times of the Gentiles. . . .

If this is so, how then can a Jew be the last ruler at a time when only Gentiles can have the preeminence? To say the Antichrist is to be a Jew would contradict the very nature of the Time of the Gentiles.

Fourthly, the Bible not only teaches that Antichrist will be Gentile, but it also tells us he will be of Roman descent. This is understood from Daniel 9:27 where the one cutting a covenant with Israel is said to represent the revived Roman Empire, since it was the Romans who destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple in A.D. 70.

Finally, that Antichrist is a Gentile ruler is also the thrust of Revelation 17:9–12. This passage says that the Beast (John’s term in Revelation for the Antichrist) is one of “seven kings”(17:10), thus, a Gentile (Roman) ruler. G. H. Lang notes:
“This eight would be one of the former seven, and so in 13.3 one of his heads had been smitten unto death, and this death-stroke was healed, that is, a man
formerly slain by violence is brought again to life. That he had been a former Gentile monarch seems to forbid that he is a Jew. I know not a word of Scripture that suggests this last notion.”

CONCLUSION

While I think it may be possible that the False Prophet (Rev. 13:11–18; 16:13; 19:20; 20:10) could be a Jew (I am not saying that I necessarily think he will be), there does not appear to be any Scriptural grounds to think that the Antichrist will be of the tribe of Dan nor of Jewish descent. It appears that he will be a Gentile and will arise from within the Revived Roman Empire. In the middle of the tribulation he will take his seat in Israel’s rebuilt Temple and claim to be God Himself (2 Thess. 2:4). His career will be a short-lived seven-year period for which he will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire upon Christ’s return to planet earth (Rev. 19:20; 20:10). Maranatha!”

https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1092&context=pretrib_arch

 

[Tall Timbers]

From an article by Tommy Ice is this:

That's an excellent argument!

 

[Douggg]

From an article by Tommy Ice is this:

“Even though some believe that the phrase in Daniel 11:37 “the God of his fathers” (KJV), implies a Jewish apostasy, the phrase is more accurately translated “the gods of his fathers” (NASB). Since Antichrist will in fact be a Gentile, as will be shown below, the argument is unfounded.

Since the original Hebrew supports the NASB translation and not the KJV, Antichrist’s apostasy will be Christian and not Jewish.

ARGUMENTS FOR A GENTILE ANTICHRIST

We have seen that the Bible does not teach that Antichrist will be Jewish. However, Scripture does teach that he will be of Gentile and possibly of Roman descent (at least from the Revived Roman Empire).

This can first be seen from biblical typology. Most commentators agree that Daniel 11 speaks of Antiochus Epiphanes, a Gentile, who typifies the future Antichrist.

“Nowhere is a Gentile ever seen as a type of Christ; and for good reason too since Christ Himself was to be a Jew.” Since Antiochus is a Gentile, then so will be Antichrist. Secondly, biblical imagery supports a Gentile origin of Antichrist. Scripture pictures Antichrist as rising up out of the sea (Rev. 13:1; 17:15). In prophetic literature the sea is an image of the Gentile nations. Thus, Antichrist is seen as a Gentile progeny.

Thirdly, the nature of the “Times of the Gentiles” (Luke 21:24) supports a Gentile Antichrist. Fruchtenbaum notes:

It is agreed by all premillennialists that the period known as the Times of the Gentiles does not end until the second coming of Christ. It is further agreed that the Antichrist is the final ruler of the Times of the Gentiles. . . .

If this is so, how then can a Jew be the last ruler at a time when only Gentiles can have the preeminence? To say the Antichrist is to be a Jew would contradict the very nature of the Time of the Gentiles.

Fourthly, the Bible not only teaches that Antichrist will be Gentile, but it also tells us he will be of Roman descent. This is understood from Daniel 9:27 where the one cutting a covenant with Israel is said to represent the revived Roman Empire, since it was the Romans who destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple in A.D. 70.

Finally, that Antichrist is a Gentile ruler is also the thrust of Revelation 17:9–12. This passage says that the Beast (John’s term in Revelation for the Antichrist) is one of “seven kings”(17:10), thus, a Gentile (Roman) ruler. G. H. Lang notes:
“This eight would be one of the former seven, and so in 13.3 one of his heads had been smitten unto death, and this death-stroke was healed, that is, a man
formerly slain by violence is brought again to life. That he had been a former
Gentile monarch seems to forbid that he is a Jew. I know not a word of Scripture that suggests this last notion.”

CONCLUSION

While I think it may be possible that the False Prophet (Rev. 13:11–18; 16:13; 19:20; 20:10) could be a Jew (I am not saying that I necessarily think he will be), there does not appear to be any Scriptural grounds to think that the Antichrist will be of the tribe of Dan nor of Jewish descent. It appears that he will be a Gentile and will arise from within the Revived Roman Empire. In the middle of the tribulation he will take his seat in Israel’s rebuilt Temple and claim to be God Himself (2 Thess. 2:4). His career will be a short-lived seven-year period for which he will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire upon Christ’s return to planet earth (Rev. 19:20; 20:10). Maranatha!”

https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1092&context=pretrib_arch

Hi Hol,

In Judaism, a person is considered a Jew if their mother is a Jew. The father can be a gentile.

The Antichrist must be a Jew for the Jews to embrace him as their long awaited King of Israel messiah (instead of Jesus the rightful King of Israel messiah). That mistake by the Jews will last about 3 years, until the person reveals himself as the man of sin in 2Thessalonians2:4, and not the messiah after all.


The Antichrist person will be descended from the Julio-Claudian bloodline as well. The forthcoming 7th king of Revelation 17:10 who will become king 8, the beast-king of Revelation 17:11.

So we have both the Jewish factor and the Gentile factor involved with the person's background.

1. as the little horn person, leader over a group of ten EU leaders.
2. then as the prince that shall come (from the EU - the manifestation of the Roman Empire in the end times.)
3. then as the Antichrist, the King of Israel (false) messiah.
4. then as the revealed man of sin.
5. then as the beast-king - future dictator of the EU.

 

[mattfivefour]

The Antichrist person will be descended from the Julio-Claudian bloodline as well.

I'm interested in the scriptural basis for this, brother.

 

[Douggg]

I'm interested in the scriptural basis for this, brother.

I will be happy to explain.

Revelation 17:
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Those seven kings are connected to the location of where the woman in Revelation 17:9 sits.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The seven mountains refer to the seven hills of Rome (18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.)

So the seven kings are connected to Rome, of the Roman Empire.
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five of those kings had fallen (died already) at the time that John received Revelation. They were...

1. Julius Caesar
2. Augustus Caesar
3. Tiberius
4. Caligula
5. Claudius

The sixth king is called the "one is" in Revelation 17:10. The sixth king was Nero.

6. Nero (who was the last of the historic Julio-Claudian kings). The next series of Rome Empire dynasty kings were from the different bloodline called the Flavians.

7. is the king yet to come of John's time, who would be part of Julio-Claudian blood line. That 7th king will be the end times little horn person, who will be over a group of ten EU leaders. We don't know at present what organization that group of ten EU leaders will be of. Maybe a defense board or panel; we just don't know yet.

Somewhere in the little horn's bloodline he will be descended from the Julio-Claudians. His Julio-Claudian bloodline may or may not come to surface that we can readily identify the person ahead of time. So I would not count on that being a means of trying to identify who the person is.

I think the best early-on identifier of the person is (1) that he will be a Jew (2) that he will become the leader of a panel of ten EU leaders .

 

[Hol]

The Antichrist must be a Jew for the Jews to embrace him as their long awaited King of Israel messiah

I understand your view and it has been popular historically.

In the biblical prophesies we are not ever told that the Jews will sign on with the AC because they think he's the Messiah. They are looking for political security from the gentiles who are in control. Remember, the seven kings will be gentiles and very powerful.

A quick look into a chapter of the history of Israel from Brittannica: "Antiochus IV Epiphanes (born c. 215 bce—died 164, Tabae, Iran) was the Seleucid king of the Hellenistic Syrian kingdom who reigned from 175 to 164 bce. As a ruler, he was best known for his encouragement of Greek culture and institutions. His attempts to suppress Judaism brought on the Wars of the Maccabees."

The AC is going to do something similar to what Antiochus Epophanes did. He came on the scene after Alexander the Great had conquered the world and he hated Israel more than other nations. Many Israelis went along with him and became helenized, men would even reverse their circumcisions to hang out in Greek pools and Olympics.

But, there was this family, and here's the entire article: Who Were the Maccabees and What Did They Do?

"Who were the Maccabees, what did they do?​

From priests to kings, the Maccabees created an independent Jewish kingdom in the second century BCE. Their success was a testament to their zeal—and some significant external factors."

Antiochus Epophanes had forbidden Torah reading and Jews who were religious had to hide their scrolls. He went so far as to place a pig on the alter in the Temple to sacrifice it. The Maccabees revolt won back the Temple and up to this day the cleansing of the Temple is celebrated as Hanukkah.

A little more from the article:

• In opposition, Mattathias Maccabee, a Jewish priest, and his five sons, John, Simon, Judah, Eliezer, and Jonathan, started a rebellion c. 167 BCE. They gathered forces and fought against the Seleucid rulers and those who supported them.
• The Maccabees suffered loss, with Mattathias, John, Judah, Eliezer, and Jonathan all dying in battle. Nevertheless, they managed to rededicate the Temple and reclaim Jerusalem and Judea. They established an independent Jewish kingdom, called the Hasmonean Kingdom, with Simon Maccabee as its first ruler c. 142 BCE.

Me again - the Jews are mostly secular in Israel today. They want protection politically and most do not seem interested in their Messiah.

 

[KMendel]

How does one reverse a circumcision??????????? What's gone is gone.

 

[Douggg]

Me again - the Jews are mostly secular in Israel today. They want protection politically and most do not seem interested in their Messiah.

Hi Hol,

So who in your opinion is going to rebuild the temple that the Antichrist is going to sit in and claim to have achieved God-hood (2Thessalonians2:4) ? Jews or Gentiles ?