It doesn't take much for my wires to be short circuited…
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What does God see in you?
- Thread starter mattfivefour
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Amethyst
† He hath shed his own blood for my soul
They are for me today too apparently.It doesn't take much for my wires to be short circuited…
Goodboy
Just waiting for the Rapture at this point!
I think it is kind of hard for someone who is not truly evil in their heart to understand someone who is truly evil in their heart. So while I am not willing to debate whether my example is correct, it is just a way that helps me understand the difference between evil verses sinning.
Let's say someone who is not truly evil ends up killing someone during an argument. After that they will feel bad about what they have done.
Let's say someone who is truly evil does not end up killing the person during the argument. They will be mad at themselves for not killing the person.
You see the mind of an evil person is just the opposite of the mind of someone who is not evil. That is why we have crimes where people kill and torturer even young children and do much worse! I am sure most on this forum can't even imagine doing that!
So to be very clear, when I speak about evil people, I am not speaking of sinners which we all are!
Let's say someone who is not truly evil ends up killing someone during an argument. After that they will feel bad about what they have done.
Let's say someone who is truly evil does not end up killing the person during the argument. They will be mad at themselves for not killing the person.
You see the mind of an evil person is just the opposite of the mind of someone who is not evil. That is why we have crimes where people kill and torturer even young children and do much worse! I am sure most on this forum can't even imagine doing that!
So to be very clear, when I speak about evil people, I am not speaking of sinners which we all are!
That's true. As you quoted in another thread, Adrian Rogers said, "If you knew some of the dark recesses of my heart you wouldn't even let me be the pastor of this church. I am a bad hombre. Only thing good about me is the grace of God."
However, that fact doesn't make a person evil in the biblical sense.
Evil in the biblical sense refers to a heart that is irrevocably set against God. In other words, it is not merely outward actions, any and all of which can be prompted by many inner conditions. It is a decisive inward expression of the heart that is set --as if in concrete-- to please self at other's expense and in direct rejection of God (either His will or His existence.) Evil delights in evil. The apostle Paul was not evil at heart; he did what he did out of a sincere desire to please God, as flawed as that desire was. People such as Hitler, Pol Pot, Kim IL Sung, John Wayne Gacy, and others like them were evil. And we know this from the fact that they went to their deaths unrepentant.
Other people in history who have done unspeakably evil things have repented and have turned to Jesus Christ as their savior. They are rejoicing in Heaven today, regardless of the harm they have may have caused to others on this earth. We may recoil at that thought; it flies in the face of our sense of justice. But consider this for a moment: all of us have done evil in God's sight, all of us have done selfish things, all of us have violated God's commandments, not one of us is worthy in any way of God's forgiveness or his acceptance. Yet here we are-- cleansed, forgiven, heirs to all of God's great promises, sealed for all eternity, every single one of our sins covered by the precious blood of Jesus Christ.
The plain fact of Scripture is this: all of us have done evil, but not all of us are confirmed evil in our hearts. There are many things in a person that may prompt them to do evil, but when the light of the gospel shines into their life they repent and accept it. They are given a new heart...a heart that delights to serve God. But that requires a willingness to turn, a willingness to come to the light. Those who are truly evil will refuse to come, for the reasons given in John. Those who are not truly evil will come. Sooner or later. They will come.
I think the point is, brother, not that they can't ever repent but that they will not ever repent. And that is in accordance with scripture. God does desire all to be saved and will move heaven and earth to save them. But He will not take away their will, their freedom to choose or reject. And scriptures does confirm that all who call out to the Lord will be saved. But sadly, not all are willing to call out. In fact, based on Matthew 7:13-14, it would appear that the majority of people who have ever lived will not be saved.
Goodboy
Just waiting for the Rapture at this point!
Well you sure are preaching today!!! I love it!!!
Some ask me why I am not a pastor and think that I am called to be one. Nope! And again I say nope! I don't have the patience to always lovingly share what the Bible says. It many times frustrates me when people don't get what I am trying to convey and we end up debating or worse case arguing. I hate arguing as it raises my blood pressure and it is not healthy for me as my heart is not the best and I have a blocked artery. Thankfully God has recently shown me not to argue. I don't need to convince anyone, just share what I know with them and move on!
Keep preaching that good word!!!
Its still a little murky. Its seems a little Calvinistic to say some will never call out to Him.
Calvinism (at least today's version) would say God did not elect them to call on Him; in other words, Calvinism says the choice is God's that they go to Hell. But this is totally wrong, because Scripture says that God is not willing that any be lost, that all would come to salvation. And as proof of that He tells us that He has set before all of us an open door (Revelation 3:8). We just have to invite Him in.
But that choice is ultimately ours. As some of the concluding words in Revelation tell us-- ”And the Spirit and the bride say, 'Come!' And let him who hears say, 'Come!' And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely." (Revelation 22:17) The key words here are "whoever desires." The original King James says " whosoever will" and that is the key-- whosoever wills, whoever desires, may come to Christ. There is no barrier. Though their sins may be as scarlet, though they be red as crimson, any person may come. But they have to want to come. They have to desire it. And sadly, incomprehensibly (to me at least), many do not want to come. There is no Calvinism involved in that truth, brother; just a sad recognition of fact.
But I hasten to add what I said in an earlier post in this thread: we cannot know a person's heart, we cannot know who will be saved and who won't be. We are not God; therefore we need to share the gospel with everyone... including those we personally may think will never come.
I pray this helps, brother.
Amen!
Perhaps I have not presented my views succinctly enough.
Yes, God knows who will or will not call on Him for salvation. This point is irrefutable. And yes, some may never desire to repent and will always be content in their current state. However, I dont believe we can ever say such and such a person will never repent.
My last point is simple. Evil is evil, regardless of why someone is that way.
Saul was very evil before he became Paul.
Again, good thread and comments.
As you know from my comments above, I agree completely! There were some who said that about me at one time; I thank God he doesn't judge as people judge!
Growing in Grace
Well-known
From Romans 5:10 "For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, it is much more certain, having been reconciled, that we will be saved [from the consequences of sin] by His life [that is, we will be saved because Christ lives today]."
IMO the term 'evil' is not an understandable way to try and explain those who won't come to Jesus. It implies that those of us who come to Jesus are not evil. Are we better? Were we born differently? And, there are going to be many 'good' people who go to hell. I'm suggesting that all people are evil in God's Holy standard, and some people seem evil or good based on our standards.
A better framing of the good/evil individual is that the offer for salvation goes to all, a legitimate offer, and some prefer to doubt God. We can pray for those lost souls that they will respond to our Heavenly Father's love for them, even though they have rejected Him so far in their lives.
Well said. Evil is evil, call it evil in the heart or label it however one wants, its still evil.
I think we drift from scripture when we try and determine who is evil in the heart, vice simply evil.
However, I now understand Goodboy and Adrians point, Im just not sure its supported by the entirety of His Word.
Nuff said!
Goodboy
Just waiting for the Rapture at this point!
Not to get into a disagreement, but please explain to me what the verses in John below mean as I have yet to hear a good explanation.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
In John 3:20 and 3:21 Jesus speaks of two different groups. Those that loved darkness and hated the light and others that doeth truth and come to the light. Why is Jesus speaking of two different groups if we are all evil as you say. Also, I have heard a lot of testimonies of Christians and never heard anyone say that they hated Jesus before they were saved. I know for a fact I never hated Jesus nor did I love darkness. Was I a sinner, sure and still am.
Also, God himself speaks of two different types of people in Genesis below.
Genesis 18:25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
Genesis 18:26 And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
So was Lot evil?
2 Peter 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2 Peter 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds.
Keep in mind that no man is without sin, so the wicked or evil are not just sinning, but that is all they think about.
Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Amethyst
† He hath shed his own blood for my soul
Maybe not you. But some absolutely would say they did, for several years pre-salvation.
Goodboy
Just waiting for the Rapture at this point!
OK, that's news to me.
I never even met anyone on the street that I shared with that was unsaved that hated Jesus. Well, I don't dispute what it is you say, as that has just been my experience. Well now I have learned something. It is really hard for me to imagine someone hating Jesus and later accepting him, unless they were deceived. I guess I am blessed to never have heard those words from anyone.
I didn't hate Jesus before I was saved. I didn't know Him. But I did love darkness. And I remember when I was first confronted with Spirit-filled Christians, I was very, very uncomfortable. I wanted to get away from them because of the darkness that was in me. But thank God, He pursued me and brought me to repentance.
Goodboy
Just waiting for the Rapture at this point!
This is just a question, not saying I disagree with you.
When you say you loved darkness, what do you mean by that. If you mean that you loved sin, I don't think that is what John 3:19 is speaking of. Did you love the things of Satan? Did you like to torture or kill people? Would you prefer to live where there were absolutely no laws like Sodom & Gomorrah? I am just saying loving darkness is like what Satan worshipers do, like sacrificing children and such. Most all of us loved certain sins before we were save and are still attracted to them.
Also, those who love darkness will also hate Jesus. Just like those who love Jesus, hate Satan.
Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Those during the Great Flood and Sodom & Gomorrah are an example of those loving darkness. Was that really you?
Maybe you did love darkness before you were saved, but I just want to be clear as to what you mean by that.
I agree with your post with the exception of the above. I have yet to read on here, or find any commentary examples that agrees. I simply dont believe we can distinguish what is evil, vice evil in the heart, or if there is a difference between the two.
I do believe the majority of persons alive will probably never repent, but they all have that opportunity while still alive no matter what they have done in life, or what their motives were, or what condition their “heart” was.
Maybe the disagreements are semantics.
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