The Timing of the Gog-Magog War

[Andy C]

There are three prevalent theories for dispensational premillennialists on the timing of the Gog-Magog war found in Ezekiel 38-39: 1) Before the Tribulation, 2) During the Tribulation, and 3) At the end of the Tribulation. It is the same war as the Armageddon campaign.



The last theory, and least likely in my opinion, is that the Gog-Magog war is the same as the Armageddon campaign and will conclude at the end of the Tribulation when Christ returns to the Earth. In this scenario, Russia and its allies are merely part of a worldwide coalition that comes against Israel at the end of days. However, there are several problems with this view. According to Dr. Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum and other Bible scholars, many objections exist to this timing of the Gog-Magog war.



According to Fruchtenbaum, there are at least seven problems with this view. “First, in Ezekiel, definite allies are mentioned, and they are limited in number, while other nations stand in opposition. In the campaign of Armageddon, all nations are allied together against Jerusalem without exception.”



This author’s note: At Armageddon, the Lord "will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle" (Zechariah 14:2). The Gog Magog War is more of a regional war, while the campaign of Armageddon involves all the nations of the world (that are still in existence at this time).



“Second, the Ezekiel invasion comes from the north, but the Armageddon invasion comes from the whole earth.” This author’s note: The Armageddon campaign will begin with the sixth Bowl Judgment, as recorded in Revelation 16:12-16. The Euphrates River will be dried up, making it easy for the kings of the east (and all their armies) to cross over with their forces to gather in the Valley of Megiddo (which is called in Hebrew Har-Magedon – the mountain of Megiddo) to destroy the Jews once and for all. This will only be a gathering place, for the major battles will be fought in Jerusalem and around Bozrah/Petra.



“Third, the purpose of the Russian confederacy invasion is to take spoil or plunder; the purpose of the Armageddon campaign is to destroy all the Jews. Fourth, in the Ezekiel invasion, there is a protest against the invasion; in the Armageddon invasion, there is no protest because all the nations are involved. Fifth, the Armageddon invasion is destroyed by the personal second coming of Jesus the Messiah.”



This author’s note: Let me reiterate the fifth point of Mr. Fruchtenbaum. Gog and allies will meet their demise by natural and supernatural means: a great earthquake, fighting amongst themselves, pestilence and bloodshed, flooding rain and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. The Armageddon forces will meet their demise by supernatural means as well, but it will be on a personal level as Jesus Christ, the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS, defeats them in person with no outside help.

https://www.rev310.net/post/the-timing-of-the-gog-magog-war

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

I think we have been and are watching it now


Ducks rocks.

 

[Growing in Grace]

The Gog Magog War is more of a regional war, while the campaign of Armageddon involves all the nations of the world (that are still in existence at this time).

Nice article Andy! I like the simplicity because it sticks to my brain

 

[Tall Timbers]

I think we have been and are watching it now


Ducks rocks.

I need google translate for this one...

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

I need google translate for this one...

There's no Q or X, but there is a Z

 

[Andy C]

The below clip from the OP is what I believe seems the most likely scenario. EZ 38 takes place after the rapture, but before the tribulation starts.


From the OP:
Due to the soon-coming Rapture and Daniel’s 70th week hot on its heels, I don’t see the Gog-Magog War occurring before the Rapture. I do believe it will happen before the Tribulation, however. Some who hold this view include Chuck Smith, Chuck Missler, Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Randall Price, Tim LaHaye, and Joel Rosenberg.



What are some reasons that support this view? First, Fruchtenbaum describes the pretribulation view as follows: the Russian invasion will occur before the Tribulation begins. This view arrives at certain conclusions from the text of Ezekiel 38:1–39:16. First, Israel is established before the Tribulation and is dwelling securely. Second, the Russian confederacy invades Israel during this time of security before the Tribulation. Third, the confederacy is destroyed in Israel before the Tribulation.

 

[Margery]

I've long held to position #1- Before the Trib, and after the Rapture. That fits with a little thing I noticed a while back- that God speaking thru Ezekiel says that He does this in order to make Himself known among the Gentiles.

IF the Gog Magog event happens BEFORE the Rapture this doesn't make sense because even in the Russian troops there are those who do know God thru His Son Jesus. Same goes for all the Gentiles present on earth, even in Muslim strongholds like Iran or atheist places like China and North Korea.

So if God is saying what I think He is in these verses: (bolded for emphasis)

(Oh and this time stamp here in v 8 of 38. "After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety."

Which seems to indicate a major war which I wonder if that is what is happening now. Then living on the mountains of Israel which is the so called West Bank, but that name is used for Judea and Samaria which was called the mountains of Israel in ancient Israel. Living in SAFETY which no matter which way you slice it, isn't right now with the residents of the north evacuated to hotels and homes in the south. verse 11-12 similar theme of Safety)


Back to the key point that I noticed in God's way of speaking about the Gentiles here

Chapter 38:
16 You will advance against my people Israel like a cloud that covers the land. In days to come, Gog, I will bring you against my land, so that the nations may know me when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.

23 And so I will show my greatness and my holiness, and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the Lord.’

Now chapter 39:
6 I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands, and they will know that I am the Lord.


7 I will make known my holy name among my people Israel. I will no longer let my holy name be profaned, and the nations will know that I the Lord am the Holy One in Israel.

21 “I will display my glory among the nations, and all the nations will see the punishment I inflict and the hand I lay on them. 22 From that day forward the people of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God. 23 And the nations will know that the people of Israel went into exile for their sin, because they were unfaithful to me.

27 When I have brought them back from the nations and have gathered them from the countries of their enemies, I will be proved holy through them in the sight of many nations.

There are many more vs relating to how God is turning to His people Israel but it's the Gentiles that I'm interested in here because these verses show something missing- namely Gentiles who DO KNOW God.

To my eyes this shows 2 things:

1) The church is missing. If we were still here- these verses wouldn't make sense.

2) God has begun to turn the heart of Israel towards Him. That process continues thru the Tribulation with those birth pains gaining in strength and severity with the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls of Revelation being unleashed, sounded and poured out.

I think this is the crossover point. After the Rapture, when God's focus returns to Israel.

The church is missing here. And that is significant because of the above vs. God is refocused on His program with Israel- He is removing their blindness and hardness of heart that allowed us Gentiles to be grafted in.

It can't be too long after the Rapture or there would be large numbers of Gentiles getting saved as the after the Rapture saints are being saved. As always both Jews and Gentiles will be saved but there is a reversal. During the Church Age, the church became largely Gentile in makeup although many Jews are part of the church. After the Rapture as God removes the blindness of Israel and grafts the natural branches back into the cultivated olive tree (because the wild olives- us Gentiles are removed to heaven) then the Jews will be the largest portion as God brings them back and grafts them back onto their own rootstock.

 

[Batman]

I came across some Jack Van Impe information the other day and he was pretty set on including the Gog/Magog war in the mid or late part of the Tribulation Period. I was going to do some research on the position (and why) of Grant Jeffrey, Dave Breese, Dr. Walvoord, Jimmy De Young, Dave Hunt, Chuck Missler, Adrian Rogers, and many still alive today. It's interesting that many tie it to pre trib, many others tie it to the early or even mid trib, and still many others tie it to the end of the trib. We can't all be right about the timing but at least we are all right that it is going to happen.

 

[Growing in Grace]

Which seems to indicate a major war which I wonder if that is what is happening now.

I've asked myself this and bounced it off of a friend (Jewish believing mother whose son made aliyah and sadly converted to Judaism). It was painful to watch Oct. 7 for her on many levels. One unforgettable thing was that Israel seemed so lax with their high-tech fence and confidence that Hamas: 1) could not muster the weaponry or organizational where-with-all to mount a sizable attack, and 2) Hamas had agreed to a ceasefire in the summer of 2022.

She was comforted (me too) to place the Ezekiel 38:11 "and you will say, ‘I will go up against the land of unwalled villages. I will go against those who are at rest, that live securely, all of them living without walls and having no bars or gates," as a current event.

This could only be true if it somehow ties into Gog-Magog -- the Russian invasion.

That's a problem for the Oct. 7 event to fit in the prophesy about Israel 'feeling safe' but it would be unsettling (especially for a mom with a son in the IDF) if it's not because that would mean we need to deal with Hamas, Hezbollah, and Judea/Samaria and let things settle down for Israel to feel secure. We've seen these cycles in Israel over her last 75-yrs, but the Oct. 7 attack is a major spike. How long until Israel lives securely again?

I guess if we look at Egypt's massive and unknown support for Hamas through the tunnels at Rafah (what a betrayal) plus an emerging Russian/Turkey/Iran unity it's possible that we are seeing Ez. 38:11 unfold.

 

[bigMoose]

plus an emerging Russian/Turkey/Iran unity

Bloomberg headline in politics/trade today: "Turkey bids to join BRICS in push to build alliances beyond the west"
.bloc set to discuss expansion at summit it Russia in october
.Turkey's been frustrated by lack of progress in bid to join the EU

... and so the story unfolds...

FWIW I too place Ezk 38-39 after the rapture and before the tribulation.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

very small minority view, here.

I think Ezekiel 38-39 will happen before the Rapture because there has to be at least seven years before The Second Coming for Israel to burn the weapons. I don't think Israel will be burning weapons during the Millennial Kingdom.

9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord God.
Ezekiel 39:9-10,KJV


I think we're watching Ezekiel 38-39 unfold right now.

I think the Ezekiel 38:10-13 is a parentheses, like the Church Age is a parentheses, and refers to USSR/Russia attacking US/Canada/maybe other parts of the Western Hemisphere. Since the Americas were unknown to people in the Eastern Hemisphere at that time and it wasn't yet time for them to know, I think the passage is written so people alive today could identify the land of unwalled villages, but it would be a mystery to the people back then. The US and Canada don't have walls around cities or villages, the continents used to be pretty sparsely populated overall, our ancestors plus more recent arrivals are from many different countries, and by world standards, even the poor have a lot. If USSR/Russia attacked someplace else, the young lions (presumably UK and former colonies), would say "did you GO," rather than "did you COME" Note that I am not a Hebrew scholar.

10 Thus saith the Lord God; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.
13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?
Ezekiel 38:10-13, KJV


I also think the second half of Ezekiel 39:6 refers to people in the Western Hemisphere. North and South America are big islands (we call them continents, but they are just really big islands), and everyone does dwell pretty safely and carelessly, especially compared to how people have lived historically in the Eastern Hemisphere.

6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the Lord.
Ezekiel 39:6, KJV


I don't think there is a gap between the Rapture and the covenant. I think the covenant is signed at the same time as/immediately after the Rapture (Restrainer removed). Ditto, first sacrifice at the Third Temple, even if it happens in a tent (Tabernacle). A pre-fab can get assembled in a matter of days, too, after the first Sacrifice. Or building The Temple may be the final "hook." The Tribulation is the last week God is dealing with Israel, so I think sacrifices need to be in place from the start of the Tribulation, but I don't think they can start until the Church is gone.

If the Church Age ends with the Rapture, then I think the next dispensation has to start immediately. God always has only one way of Salvation at a time, even though it's ultimately only by faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.


Finally, I think Ezekiel 37 refers to God literally bringing the whole nation of Israel back to life, making them an Army, and placing them in The Land. That would surely and instantaneously bring the whole nation of Israel to faith in God of the Bible, but since the sacrifices occurring, obviously not yet in Jesus as Messiah. Ezekiel 39, starting with verse 22 reiterates that the whole House of Israel will know The Lord is God.

1 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,
2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.
3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest.
4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.
5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.
Ezekiel 37:1-14, KJV
Etc.


I could be wrong about all of this.

I've been wrong about a lot of things . . .
Once upon a time, I thought that Gog and Magog might refer to the US and USSR, but that's obviously not right, so I don't any more

.

 

[Growing in Grace]

Ezekiel 39, starting with verse 22 reiterates that the whole House of Israel will know The Lord is God.

I'd love for this to be true, but it seems that only a remnant of Israel will accept Jesus as Messiah.

Matthew 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place—let the reader understand—16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.17 Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. 18 And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19 But woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 Moreover, pray that when you flee, it will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.

These who understand that the AC is on scene will be a smaller group, not the entire nation of Israel.