The contrast between the 2 false witnesses of Matthew's gospel, and the 2 Witnesses of Revelation

[Margery]

I'm caught by the symmetry and contrast of these 2 sets of 2 Witnesses. I'm still thinking over this, I can't move ahead in my daily Bible reading till I think about it some more, so I thought I'd bring it here to talk about.

2 sets of 2. The first set before the Cross, the second set before the Kingdom.

Before the crucifixion, 2 false witnesses of Matthew 26:60 here NKJV
60 but found none. Even though many false witnesses came forward, they found none. But at last two false witnesses came forward

and they testified this way

61 and said, “This fellow said, ‘I am able to destroy the temple of God and to build it in three days.’ ”




and then before the return of Christ at the end of the Tribulation, these 2 True Witnesses appear during the Tribulation to testify


Rev 11: 3-12
3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner.
6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves.
10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.
12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them.

 

[Margery]

Right alongside that beautiful symmetry of the 2 Witnesses is Peter's 3x denial of Christ- later followed by the 3 times Jesus asks Peter "do you love me?" I knew about that but I hadn't clued into the fact that the 2 false witnesses of Christ's trial were foreshadows of the 2 Witnesses of Revelation.

 

[Andy C]

2 false witnesses of Christ's trial were foreshadows of the 2 Witnesses of Revelation.

I dont understand the connection? Why would 2 false witness be a foreshadow of the two witnesses in Revelation, who preach His Word?

 

[mattfivefour]

I dont understand the connection? Why would 2 false witness be a foreshadow of the two witnesses in Revelation, who preach His Word?

I'm struggling with the same question. Other than the fact they in each case there are two witnesses, what connects them, either in type or antitype?

 

[Margery]

Nothing connects them except they are opposites. Complete opposites.

And they are sets of 2. Equal amounts. By the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses things are established.


And they occur before the Cross and the Kingdom. That is where the symmetry comes in.

 

[mattfivefour]

OK, thanks. I'll ponder that.

 

[Margery]

OK, thanks. I'll ponder that.

It may just be me looking for something that isn't there. That happens.

Numbers always fascinate me, as well as patterns.

I think what got me going was the way Peter denies Jesus 3 times then afterwards Jesus asks him Do you love me 3 times. Same setting, before the cross and both times with Peter and with the 2 Witnesses there is a repeating pattern going on.

That may mean absolutely nothing just me pulling out a pattern that isn't there, kind of like how our minds see faces in knots of wood in plywood, the man in the moon or stuff in clouds- because our brains are programmed to see faces as a pattern recognition even when that is merely a random pattern.

It's part of the way autistic brains work. Pattern recognition is built in, and very strong.

 

[Margery]

I woke up too early just now realizing I'd overlooked a few other tidbits.

Factors in common:

Both sets of witnesses testify the actual truth about Christ the first set to get Him Crucified, the second set to get His brethren the Jews to accept Him as Messiah.

So both sets speak the truth, one to get Him crucified, because the Jewish authorities won't accept that as truth, the second set to get the Jewish authorities to see Him as Messiah and King.

Both sets speak to the entire world, not just the Jews but both sets are focused on the Jews.

Both sets relate to the Kingdom and Christ's right to be - God and King and Messiah.

This next one is a maybe, because we aren't sure exactly what the 2 Witnesses of Rev say about the Temple but the first set of witnesses at the trial before the Jewish authorities, has to do with the Temple. So I'm curious if they are both Temple focused because I remember reading one or more theologians who thought that the 2 Witnesses of Rev would help with either the building or the sanctification of the rebuilt Temple.

Chuck Missler once said if you notice something in the Bible and you can't figure it out, just keep it on the back burner for years even waiting on the Lord to reveal it. (I can't remember the exact quote but that was the gist)

This is me just parking this thought to simmer on the back burner. Going back to bed now.

 

[Tall Timbers]

When I first read the OP back when it was posted it went over my head (easily done). Reading it again along with the thread I'm beginning to see what Margery has noticed. It's interesting.

In heaven I reckon we might see how everything throughout history perfectly fits together like a multi-dimensional puzzle.

1 Cor 13:12

 

[Andy C]

Nothing connects them except they are opposites. Complete opposites.

And they are sets of 2. Equal amounts. By the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses things are established.


And they occur before the Cross and the Kingdom. That is where the symmetry comes in.

Okay. I guess saying they are a foreshadow confused me.

 

[Margery]

Okay. I guess saying they are a foreshadow confused me.

I was dead wrong to use that word to try to describe what I was thinking. That is not the correct word to use and I agree, I was confusing things there. I don't really have a good descriptive word.

It's a symmetrical pattern, an echo on the front end of both sides of Christ's triumphal entries into history. I'm still struggling with describing what I see.

Before the Cross, solidifying the hatred and resolve to murder God's only begotten Son, by the Jewish authorities. Creating the excuse for 2000 years of Jew hatred by the largely Gentile church, but actually an expression of Satan's hatred of God and His Son and the Jews thru which God moved.

Before the Second Coming, in the aftermath of the 2 Witnesses of Revelation, restoring the Jews to their belief in the Messiah, their King and their God (and ours). But involving the Jews in a corporate action of believing. As Jesus said in Matthew, chapter 23 just ahead of the passage where Jesus is on trial, where he is debating with the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Matt 23:39
39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

Which refers to the prophecy in Zech 13:8-9 but really involves that whole chapter dealing with the Second Coming.

And it shall come to pass in all the land,”
Says the Lord,
“That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die,
But one-third shall be left in it:

9 I will bring the one-third through the fire,
Will refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name,
And I will answer them.
I will say, ‘This is My people’;
And each one will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’ ”

These passages describe that astonishing contrast between the attitude of the Jewish authorities in ch 23 and 24 onwards. Their resolve to put Jesus to death, and then the resolve of the Jews who place their trust in their Messiah in a corporate sense at the Second Coming.

2 Witnesses involved in each situation with completely opposing results

But each time God's will intervening in history for the redemption of all mankind, not just the Jews thru which He is working.

And the entire Church Age followed by the Rapture captured in between these events, these 2 sets of 2 Witnesses.

 

[Batman]

I like this thread. I was re-reading Dr. Ice's article and others from the "Pre-Trib Research Center", etc. and still LOVE the idea that the 2 witnesses are Elijah and Moses and they come onto the scene at the start of the trib and are killed and caught up at the midway point as the AC is about to enter the temple and cause the A of D. Not sure this comment is needed for this thread but love the "Ford/Chevy" or "Baseball/Football" poll of people on who the 2 witnesses will be. Keeping score for me would mean a point for the 1969 Mach 1 (or Shelby), MLB (with no designated hitters), and Elijah/Moses.

 

[mattfivefour]

It's a symmetrical pattern, an echo on the front end of both sides of Christ's triumphal entries into history. I'm still struggling with describing what I see.

Before the Cross, solidifying the hatred and resolve to murder God's only begotten Son, by the Jewish authorities. Creating the excuse for 2000 years of Jew hatred by the largely Gentile church, but actually an expression of Satan's hatred of God and His Son and the Jews thru which God moved.

Before the Second Coming, in the aftermath of the 2 Witnesses of Revelation, restoring the Jews to their belief in the Messiah, their King and their God (and ours). But involving the Jews in a corporate action of believing. As Jesus said in Matthew, chapter 23 just ahead of the passage where Jesus is on trial, where he is debating with the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Matt 23:39
39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

Which refers to the prophecy in Zech 13:8-9 but really involves that whole chapter dealing with the Second Coming.

And it shall come to pass in all the land,”
Says the Lord,
“That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die,
But one-third shall be left in it:

9 I will bring the one-third through the fire,
Will refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name,
And I will answer them.
I will say, ‘This is My people’;
And each one will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’ ”

These passages describe that astonishing contrast between the attitude of the Jewish authorities in ch 23 and 24 onwards. Their resolve to put Jesus to death, and then the resolve of the Jews who place their trust in their Messiah in a corporate sense at the Second Coming.

2 Witnesses involved in each situation with completely opposing results

But each time God's will intervening in history for the redemption of all mankind, not just the Jews thru which He is working.

And the entire Church Age followed by the Rapture captured in between these events, these 2 sets of 2 Witnesses.

OK, now you've given me some substance. Very interesting. You may indeed have something.

 

[Margery]

OK, now you've given me some substance. Very interesting. You may indeed have something.

It's pretty slight evidence of anything really, just that contrast, that echo.

And the fact that those false witnesses at Christ's trial before the Sanhedrin actually tell the truth - even though it's worded in such a way as to condemn Him. It is no condemnation, it is the truth that He can destroy the physical Temple, and the Temple of His body, and raise it back up in 3 days.

That accusation is rooted back at the beginning of Christ's public ministry, after turning water into wine, appearing in the Temple at Passover and cleansing it to the shock and horror of the authorities. Found in John 2:

18 The Jews then responded to him, “What sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?”
19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?”
21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body.
22 After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.



The argument they make is about authority- Christ's authority.



And again it's an echo, a symmetry involved in these false witnesses that accidentally speak the truth. It starts at the beginning of His public ministry, and then the result appears at the end of His public ministry - at his trial before the cross.



Whether they wanted to or not, God ensures that these false witnesses actually speak the truth.



And the central issue is Christ's authority, which they challenge.



With the 2 witnesses of Revelation 11, they explode into the scene in the context of the Temple no less, and the implication is that they are arguing FOR His authority.

But both times, both sets of witnesses speak the truth. One set unwillingly, one set willingly.

One set before the Cross, one set before the Kingdom. Bracketing the Church age.