The Assumption of Mary, the mother of Jesus.

[Ronnie]

Through this document, MUNIFICENTISSIMUS DEUS, stands the RCC doctrine of Assumption of Mary.
Catholic teaching says that she wasn’t guilty of ‘Original sin’ as Jesus wasn’t and because of it didn’t die, but ascended to heaven

5. Now God has willed that the Blessed Virgin Mary should be exempted from this general rule (not dying and her body not seeing corruption). She, by an entirely unique privilege, completely overcame sin by her Immaculate Conception, and as a result she was not subject to the law of remaining in the corruption of the grave, and she did not have to wait until the end of time for the redemption of her body.

6. Thus, when it was solemnly proclaimed that Mary, the Virgin Mother of God, was from the very beginning free from the taint of original sin, the minds of the faithful were filled with a stronger hope that the day might soon come when the dogma of the Virgin Mary's bodily Assumption into heaven would also be defined by the Church's supreme teaching authority.

In my opinion, Pope Pius XII felt a need to beef up the worship of Mary so he wrote I this.

 

[Kaatje]

The RCC christianized Samirames (the wife of Nimrod), who was worshipped as the the godess of the heavens, into Mary.

Worshipping or praying to Mary is forbidden in the Bible, but that never stopped them.

 

[Tall Timbers]

Mary played a magnificent and blessed role in the history of man. I'll bet she'll have some interesting stories to share in heaven about her first born...

 

[Andiamo]

She would be really upset if she knew that people made her into an idol. Possibly she personally saw or heard of this starting to happen from the very beginnings of the church.

 

[Margery]

She would be really upset if she knew that people made her into an idol. Possibly she personally saw or heard of this starting to happen from the very beginnings of the church.

I think she did. It's in one of the earliest volumes of the Early Church Fathers, and it's a single letter written in reply to Justin Martyr I think it was. In his letter to her there are definite fan boy moments and in her reply she very kindly and firmly sets him back to worshipping Jesus not her.

That's the only letter from her preserved in the ECF - at least the ones translated into English and compiled by Schaff which are the ones I have on kindle.

My impression was of a quiet and reserved person, very compassionate, but quite direct and very very private. She was firm in pointing him back to Christ.

 

[Andiamo]

I think she did. It's in one of the earliest volumes of the Early Church Fathers, and it's a single letter written in reply to Justin Martyr I think it was. In his letter to her there are definite fan boy moments and in her reply she very kindly and firmly sets him back to worshipping Jesus not her.

That's the only letter from her preserved in the ECF - at least the ones translated into English and compiled by Schaff which are the ones I have on kindle.

My impression was of a quiet and reserved person, very compassionate, but quite direct and very very private. She was firm in pointing him back to Christ.

Wow. I had no idea there was a letter out there written by her.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

RCC (and Orthodox)) have other erroneous beliefs about Mary: that she was a perpetual virgin and never had sex with her husband, Joseph, which is directly against what Scripture teaches about marriage. RCC (and Orthodox) also claim Jesus had no half-brothers, that they were cousins, which is not what the Bible says.


5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
1 Corinthians 7:5-7, KJV


"Jesus’ brothers are mentioned in several Bible verses. Matthew 12:46, Luke 8:19, and Mark 3:31 say that Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see Him. The Bible tells us that Jesus had four brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). The Bible also tells us that Jesus had sisters, but they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:56). In John 7:1-10, His brothers go on to the festival while Jesus stays behind. In Acts 1:14, His brothers and mother are described as praying with the disciples. Galatians 1:19 mentions that James was Jesus’ brother. The most natural conclusion of these passages is to interpret that Jesus had actual blood half-siblings."

Did Jesus have brothers and sisters (siblings)? | GotQuestions.org

Did Jesus have brothers and sisters (siblings)? Were the brothers and sisters of Jesus mentioned in the Bible actually His cousins?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Margery]

Found it! It's in volume 1 of the AnteNicene (before the council of Nicea) Fathers, and I was wrong, it wasn't Justin Martyr but Ignatius (who was also martyred- which is probably how it got misfiled in my brain).

It's in the second part of Ignatius which are fakes just so you know. I'd forgotten that part too! KIND OF IMPORTANT!!!

I'm going to see if I can quote some bits from the back and forth.

There's a reason the Early Church Fathers aren't canon. Some of the stuff in there like this ARE fake-added in to debunk various points of view that came up later in which they could say- see Ignatius taught against that. That is how come the later letters from "Ignatius" are considered fakes. They seemed to address problems that cropped up later and they aren't quite in the same style as real Ignatius. But Schaff includes it in the section under Ignatius.

In this case even as a fake it shows the early desire to venerate Mary. And the letter from Mary (fake Mary) is actually very good, and points the reader to Christ and away from her.

Kind of suggests that the guy faking Ignatius - was dealing with the veneration of Mary and wanted to have a "genuine fake" letter back from fake Mary to set people straight. I think he didn't get the memo that 2 wrongs don't make a right.

"Ignatius and the brethren who are with him to John the holy presbyter."

He starts by saying "we are deeply grieved at thy delay in strengthening us by thy addresses and consolations." goes on in that vein

and then this
"There are also many of our women here, who are desirous to see Mary (the mother) of Jesus, and wish day by day to run off from us to you, that they may meet with her"

more in that vein, and then

"..Salome..... who stayed with her five months in Jerusalem, and some other well known persons, relate that she is full of all graces and all virtues..."

and it goes on like that for quite a bit.

Very fan boy. Also, not in Ignatius's usual style. He is more direct, not as flowery.

When he finishes writing to John twice, he writes directly to Mary. But there are bits that are really off eg the rather gnostic curiosity of knowing if Mary can give information because she was acquainted with His secrets which should raise the eyebrows a bit if this was the genuine Ignatius. His genuine writings are against myths, fables and endless genealogies. Doesn't sound like him.

Here is the letter purporting to be from Ignatius to Mary: and it seems to be in reply from an earlier set of letters back and forth that aren't included.

" Her friend Ignatius to the Christ-bearing Mary.
Thou oughtest to have comforted and consoled me who am a neophyte, and a disciple of thy (beloved) John. For I have heard things wonderful to tell respecting thy (son) Jesus, and I am astonished by such a report. But I desire with my whole heart to obtain information concerning the things which I have heard from thee, who wast always intimate and allied with Him, and who wast acquainted with (all) His secrets. I have also written to thee at another time, and have asked thee concerning the same things. Fare thou well: and let the neophytes who are with me be comforted of thee and by thee, and in thee. Amen."

Here is the letter that purports to be from Mary:

"The lowly handmaid of Christ Jesus to Ignatius, her beloved fellow- disciple.
The things which thou hast heard and learned from John concerning Jesus are true. Believe them, cling to them and hold fast the profession of that Christianity which though hast embraced, and conform thy habits and life to thy profession. Now I will come in company with John to visit thee and those that are with thee. Stand fast in the faith, and show thyself a man; nor let the fierceness of persecution move thee, but let thy spirit be strong and rejoice in God they Saviour. Amen."

The style of the letters is unlike the earlier genuine letters from Ignatius, and this starts to have a very Dark Ages early Roman Catholic flavour to it. But oddly the fake Mary points the focus back to Jesus in a very direct yet compassionate way.

Both letters end with Amen which Ignatius didn't do and sound awfully like a later addition so more evidence of fakery.

It makes one wonder about someone bothered by the veneration of Mary who inserts this as coming from Ignatius and then Mary in order to stop the freight train of the Mary cult.

I'm sorry I gave a false impression that it was genuine, it was from a hazy memory of somewhere in the first volume of the Early Church Fathers Ante Nicene edition by Phillip Schaff.

edited to add, this fake Ignatius refers to the BROTHER of Christ, James and makes reference in one of his letters to John asking confirmation that James looks very like Jesus. So whoever was writing this fake, was also aware of the fact that Mary was not a perpetual virgin, and that Jesus had several half brothers and sisters. Which means the later Catholic dogmas ignored the early church fathers evidence, even the early church fakes who were aware that James was Jesus half brother, not His cousin.

 

[Ronnie]

Catholic teaching says that she wasn’t guilty of ‘Original sin’ as Jesus wasn’t and because of it didn’t die, but ascended to heaven omitted: without dying.

The said document was originally written in Latin, of course.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

Mary could be the worst of the worst and it wouldn't make a difference in Jesus' sinlessness, since original sin is passed from the father, and Jesus' father was God, so necessarily sinless and no original sin/sin nature to pass on. Part of the fully man and fully God doctrine. She'd still have to be a virgin until after Jesus' birth, though.

 

[Ronnie]

RCC still call her Virgin Mary though the Bible talks about Jesus’ half brothers.

BTW, Mary’s name is Merriam in Hebrew.

 

[Cheeky200386]

Even when I was in the Catholic Church until my teens, I thought it was stupid that they claim Mary never had sex with her HUSBAND and that we are to confess our sins to a priest rather than directly to God.