Russia is in trouble internally

[TCC]

The devil you know is usually better than the one you don't.

Yes. In that way it would be nice to keep Putin.

 

[TCC]

I wonder that too! It's kind of hard to put it into words though. We are stuck in time like flies on flypaper. We can't fly up off the flat flypaper to see the panorama. Our language reflects that. and worse yet we know about the past but we are forever propelled thru time towards the future. It's a one way trip.

I think it's a VERY worthwhile rabbit trail, because it deals with God and the nature of Time. God is the master of Time, He is not stuck in the flypaper. He is here, and present but not trapped like we are by time. I got there by thinking about the nature of God's name for Himself I AM. That implies far more than eternal existence. It implies a present tense at all times. That was when I got interested in Quantum physics. Just because of God calling Himself I AM.

I am interested in the physics of Time because we are stuck going forwards thru it. We can't go into the past. But God not only sees it all, He is Omnipresent in all time at the same time- being Omnipresent in time itself.

There is a unique property of photons, the particles of light. They are both a particle and a wave so the physics people, don't come for me, I know.

But the property I'm fascinated by is something called entanglement. Photons can "communicate" with each other light years apart. And Time doesn't seem to affect them. I've wondered if we simply intersect their waves at just the right plane to experience them as light but they are interconnected on another dimension with us just experiencing them as individual photons.

It's kind of astonishing. I used to enjoy reading about that and the different dimensions. A rabbi in the 1600s I think it was came up with the number of dimensions based on something in the Bible. I never found out what his reasoning was, simply that it took hundreds of years for the Quantum physics buffs to catch up to his insight. I think his number was one of the main contenders. There's a few different theories floating around about the number of actual/possible dimensions and his happened to be the top pick. Go figure.

Its posts like this that help me constantly realize I am in the right forum...lol.

Well said. Margery. I am not too scientifically literate. But I too found it interesting to note that light travels differently when we are not observing it. Than when we are. The difference being our observation. Go figure? Not even sure how that might parlay beyond just an underscore to the "organic" take vs the "look mom, no hands" take on things. I had seen how it applied in the church body dynamic to a degree. But I would like to suggest something too Margery. And in my saying this, I pretend not to be more informed here. For I believe there are aspects to quantum pyhysics and mechanics I cannot know. And I just want to say here that I yield to the finer points of others for their reasons in what they see in systems like quauntumn physics. But I have a little formula of my own.

I do not believe there is any time but the present...always. There is not future and there is not past simultanously operating while and as we have the present.

I have Trump to thank for this...lol. Let me explain. Back in 2017 I was interested in the consideration of if perhaps the AC might try and change times and seasons through pyhysics. Might he believe and try perhaps to find a time worm hole or make a time machine where he believes he can go back in time and undue the cross. There were some stange YouTube channels in those days, no doubt this comment of mine might reflect. So what does that have to do with Trump? lol.

Well it is noted that historically Trump's uncle Fred was a genius that the government tasked it evaluate Nikoli Tesla's inventions once he passed. The government likely was looking for weapon technology no doubt. Tesla was rated as smarter than Edison (but Edison was popularized because he had a more decent family life while Tesla was a womanizer). Of the two, it would seem Tesla was quite a bit more ahead of his time than even Edison. But was downplayed. At the time, Fred, did not seem to provide the government with new weapon Intel. But had he found any, would we know? In any event those secrets had been in the Trump family line for decades. Which made me wonder if Tesla might have discovered time travel. And is Trump a time travelor...lol.

Now the short answer is no. But I postulated. Is it possible for a Trump of the past to time travel and visit a Trump of the future? Can there be two Trumps in the same time? This would somewhat be based on the theory in quautnumn physics that there are other versions of us (you and me) had we made other choices in life. And the quauntumn universe seems to be very popular commercially in America. So it would seem to be the side of the Mandella Effect, that might have squeaked by, backed by real science. I quickly came to the conclusion that time existing outside of the here and now is not a thing because could there actually be Trump from the past visiting Trump of the future? No. Because God made one of any of us. There is not a version of us going to heaven and a version of us going to hell, for example. So there is just one of us. That's it. However demineions might be considered, it would not appear it would be in relation to time being active outside the here and now nor other versions of our oursevels.

. . . . .

Now here is what I believe is a better take away than trying to consider if Trump is a time traveler...lol. As I was raised in the Reformed Camp, it was a very popular thing to say what you have shared here: God is present at all times at the same time. I tried to look that up in scripture. And actually, that does not exist. It is a fascinating idea. But I could never find it in the Bible. I don't believe for example, as the American Reformed perspective does, that God knows the future because He ordained it. If God did not ordain it, then He does not know it. This is circling in some reformed camps these days. I believe God knows the future because He is God. And knows all things. There is evidence in the Bible that some things that did come to pass God did not consider for it to be. One would be in Gen 6. The other, Jer 19:5:

5 and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, a thing which I did not command nor speak of, nor did it ever enter My mind.

So to me this would suggest that God does not ordain every microsecond to occur and that is why He knows the future. But also, I would say that God does not know the future because it already exists in time somewhere. I don't think there is a context of time that exists anywhere but the here and now. But I love time travel movies and stuff. Its super fun to consider. And I was open to where ever time traveling Trump might have led. But where these seem to cross over in our contemporary moment is how we have considered quantum physicis. The idea today (such as with CERN) is to look into other dimensions. I do believe there are others. But I don't believe it is other versions of us. Or other places in time.

So the clearest thing for me is that there cannot be any other versions of ourselves because we are created in His image and therefore there are not versions of ousrelves where one would choose Christ and one not. I know you were not going there dear sister. I am just saying this is where that line of thinking lead me to consider. So I came to realize that there is no future or past for God to be omnipresent in. Now it could be possible that there are other existing times but the ability to travel to it can't be done. But the premise I understood from the American Reformed perspective seemed intriguing. However, it kind of stood out to me as one of those philopshies that camp can tend to do to overlay philosophy over scripture. For I believed that very notion that God saw all time at the same time because He is at all times at the same time. I am not saying that cannot be. What I am suggesting is that the only time that is is now. Now since we can't know, this is course is my opinion. But what can be measured is: Where in scripture does it say that God is present at all times at the same time?" I don't believe it does.

. . . . .

I mean this in no way to rain on any creative process. For I love the enthusiasm to consider. Amen. Its just I thought it might be interesting to share a story of my own journey in that sort of thing and where it kind of landed me. So if the AC does try to travel time, perhaps it might seem like he could. Would that not be super bizarre to convince a world that AC changed the outcome of the crucification? Whatever that future level of deception will be, it will be convincing. Perhaps not that. But the idea for me came from the gnostic channels I came across in 2017 that would entertain that the God of the old testament was thought by some channels on YouTube to be a version of how the gnostics saw God. And it was a twisted mess for me to unravel.

In any event, you have a very keen and intriguing mind. So perhaps there are aspects I am not considering here. It may not be that quantum physics plays much into prophecy. But it seems to be gaining popularity today (I.e. the Mandella Effect...CERN...the God particle...recreating the big bang etc). In all of this I reckon the "I AM" placement for me would be in His utter personhood. Of which all the here and now ever emerges from one timeless, Himself. We have heard in the American Reformed perspective that God is outside of time. And this is interesting to consider, no doubt. But at this point I am not even sure what that might mean in a way. Like if the only time is here and now because of His "I AMness," then how can He be outside Himself? lol. I know that sounds silly. And these of course are categories that transcend us. But for me I guess the reason I would wade in this side of the philophical swimming pool is because it would appear to me that God seeing all time at the same time is akin to God knowing all things because He ordained them all. Those two don't have to go together I suppose. And I am sure there are good arguments how the do not, amen. But it would seem that what they do share perhaps is philosphical qualities venturing beyond how scripture informs about Him.

In any case, any feedback or contrast is of course welcome. I am just sharing some things I had thought on this kind of issue in the past. it would be interesting in how you might ponder. Blessings.

 

[Margery]

Regarding what is called the Multiverse- at the time I looked at Quantum physics, there were 2 theories competing. One is the multiverse, where there are multiple options ever expanding with the choices we take in life. Option A and Option B. That was (in 2001 or so) the minority opinion. But it got a lot of traction in movies and sci fi. Multiple "time lines" ever expanding outwards.

The majority opinion Option B -which I think makes sense in the natural as well as from a Biblical point of view is the one single universe where decisions are made- God gave us free will to make decisions- and those decisions change our future especially the most important decision of all- what do we believe about Christ? Is He the one we turn to for Salvation or do we reject Him and His substitutionary atonement on the Cross.

Pick the former and we will end up in heaven in spite of the bumps and turns our life takes. We are saved once and for all. This eliminates the "multiverse" of multiple possible time lines and outcomes. (I admit it's fun to think about multiple versions of a time travelling Trump )

Jesus assures us of this here: John 6:39 NIV "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day."

And in context this absolutely means people who turn to Him for salvation as the other verses around this verse show.

35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.

36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.

37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Just this passage alone eliminates multiple time lines. Each individual is given a choice, and the consequences of their choice about Christ is eternal. From the moment of Salvation for the saved, and from the moment of death for the unsaved. Up till death each person that is still unsaved, still has choice. After death the opportunity for choice is gone.

 

[mattfivefour]

Its posts like this that help me constantly realize I am in the right forum...lol.

Well said. Margery. I am not too scientifically literate. But I too found it interesting to note that light travels differently when we are not observing it. Than when we are. The difference being our observation. Go figure? Not even sure how that might parlay beyond just an underscore to the "organic" take vs the "look mom, no hands" take on things. I had seen how it applied in the church body dynamic to a degree. But I would like to suggest something too Margery. And in my saying this, I pretend not to be more informed here. For I believe there are aspects to quantum pyhysics and mechanics I cannot know. And I just want to say here that I yield to the finer points of others for their reasons in what they see in systems like quauntumn physics. But I have a little formula of my own.

I do not believe there is any time but the present...always. There is not future and there is not past simultanously operating while and as we have the present.

I have Trump to thank for this...lol. Let me explain. Back in 2017 I was interested in the consideration of if perhaps the AC might try and change times and seasons through pyhysics. Might he believe and try perhaps to find a time worm hole or make a time machine where he believes he can go back in time and undue the cross. There were some stange YouTube channels in those days, no doubt this comment of mine might reflect. So what does that have to do with Trump? lol.

Well it is noted that historically Trump's uncle Fred was a genius that the government tasked it evaluate Nikoli Tesla's inventions once he passed. The government likely was looking for weapon technology no doubt. Tesla was rated as smarter than Edison (but Edison was popularized because he had a more decent family life while Tesla was a womanizer). Of the two, it would seem Tesla was quite a bit more ahead of his time than even Edison. But was downplayed. At the time, Fred, did not seem to provide the government with new weapon Intel. But had he found any, would we know? In any event those secrets had been in the Trump family line for decades. Which made me wonder if Tesla might have discovered time travel. And is Trump a time travelor...lol.

Now the short answer is no. But I postulated. Is it possible for a Trump of the past to time travel and visit a Trump of the future? Can there be two Trumps in the same time? This would somewhat be based on the theory in quautnumn physics that there are other versions of us (you and me) had we made other choices in life. And the quauntumn universe seems to be very popular commercially in America. So it would seem to be the side of the Mandella Effect, that might have squeaked by, backed by real science. I quickly came to the conclusion that time existing outside of the here and now is not a thing because could there actually be Trump from the past visiting Trump of the future? No. Because God made one of any of us. There is not a version of us going to heaven and a version of us going to hell, for example. So there is just one of us. That's it. However demineions might be considered, it would not appear it would be in relation to time being active outside the here and now nor other versions of our oursevels.

. . . . .

Now here is what I believe is a better take away than trying to consider if Trump is a time traveler...lol. As I was raised in the Reformed Camp, it was a very popular thing to say what you have shared here: God is present at all times at the same time. I tried to look that up in scripture. And actually, that does not exist. It is a fascinating idea. But I could never find it in the Bible. I don't believe for example, as the American Reformed perspective does, that God knows the future because He ordained it. If God did not ordain it, then He does not know it. This is circling in some reformed camps these days. I believe God knows the future because He is God. And knows all things. There is evidence in the Bible that some things that did come to pass God did not consider for it to be. One would be in Gen 6. The other, Jer 19:5:

5 and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, a thing which I did not command nor speak of, nor did it ever enter My mind.

So to me this would suggest that God does not ordain every microsecond to occur and that is why He knows the future. But also, I would say that God does not know the future because it already exists in time somewhere. I don't think there is a context of time that exists anywhere but the here and now. But I love time travel movies and stuff. Its super fun to consider. And I was open to where ever time traveling Trump might have led. But where these seem to cross over in our contemporary moment is how we have considered quantum physicis. The idea today (such as with CERN) is to look into other dimensions. I do believe there are others. But I don't believe it is other versions of us. Or other places in time.

So the clearest thing for me is that there cannot be any other versions of ourselves because we are created in His image and therefore there are not versions of ousrelves where one would choose Christ and one not. I know you were not going there dear sister. I am just saying this is where that line of thinking lead me to consider. So I came to realize that there is no future or past for God to be omnipresent in. Now it could be possible that there are other existing times but the ability to travel to it can't be done. But the premise I understood from the American Reformed perspective seemed intriguing. However, it kind of stood out to me as one of those philopshies that camp can tend to do to overlay philosophy over scripture. For I believed that very notion that God saw all time at the same time because He is at all times at the same time. I am not saying that cannot be. What I am suggesting is that the only time that is is now. Now since we can't know, this is course is my opinion. But what can be measured is: Where in scripture does it say that God is present at all times at the same time?" I don't believe it does.

. . . . .

I mean this in no way to rain on any creative process. For I love the enthusiasm to consider. Amen. Its just I thought it might be interesting to share a story of my own journey in that sort of thing and where it kind of landed me. So if the AC does try to travel time, perhaps it might seem like he could. Would that not be super bizarre to convince a world that AC changed the outcome of the crucification? Whatever that future level of deception will be, it will be convincing. Perhaps not that. But the idea for me came from the gnostic channels I came across in 2017 that would entertain that the God of the old testament was thought by some channels on YouTube to be a version of how the gnostics saw God. And it was a twisted mess for me to unravel.

In any event, you have a very keen and intriguing mind. So perhaps there are aspects I am not considering here. It may not be that quantum physics plays much into prophecy. But it seems to be gaining popularity today (I.e. the Mandella Effect...CERN...the God particle...recreating the big bang etc). In all of this I reckon the "I AM" placement for me would be in His utter personhood. Of which all the here and now ever emerges from one timeless, Himself. We have heard in the American Reformed perspective that God is outside of time. And this is interesting to consider, no doubt. But at this point I am not even sure what that might mean in a way. Like if the only time is here and now because of His "I AMness," then how can He be outside Himself? lol. I know that sounds silly. And these of course are categories that transcend us. But for me I guess the reason I would wade in this side of the philophical swimming pool is because it would appear to me that God seeing all time at the same time is akin to God knowing all things because He ordained them all. Those two don't have to go together I suppose. And I am sure there are good arguments how the do not, amen. But it would seem that what they do share perhaps is philosphical qualities venturing beyond how scripture informs about Him.

In any case, any feedback or contrast is of course welcome. I am just sharing some things I had thought on this kind of issue in the past. it would be interesting in how you might ponder. Blessings.

Well, brother, I tried to hang on for the ride there and I did make it to the end, though you almost flung me off a few times on the journey. But setting aside your wilder flights are fancy, I think the gist of the matter is this: does God know the future or does He not know the future?

I cannot imagine a God who is omniscient (not to mention omnipresent and omnipotent) being surprised by anything. I can't see Him sitting in heaven going, "Wow I didn't see that coming! but that's okay cuz I can handle that." That's ridiculous. Sheer logic dictates that the God who has revealed Himself to us in the Bible must know everything past, present and future. And all of His actions as He has recorded for us in His Word demonstrate that truth.

When you say you cannot find the idea that God is present at all times at the same time in Scripture, I think you're going in with a preconception. You are looking for those exact words (or approximations thereof) and missing the evidence that attests to it: namely the many instances when God clearly is everywhere present and everywhere knowledge. I see Job saying: "His eyes are on the ways of a man, and He sees his every step" (Job 34:21), which would be impossible for the billions on this earth if He were not everywhere present at all times. King David is more direct when, in Psalm 139, he says if I go to heaven You're there; if I go to hell You're there; if I go to the furthest parts of the earth you're already there and Your hand leads me. Where can I flee from Your presence?

I don't have time to list all the places in Scripture that show the same thing. The evidence is all there, brother, if we don't go in with any a priori.

Additionally, God Himself says He is omnipresent. Isn't that what He says in Jeremiah 23:23? "Am I a God at hand, saith Jehovah, and not a God afar off?" Or, as the CEV summarizes it: "I am everywhere--both near and far." From this and many parallel verses I have to conclude that He is a God who is everywhere and not in one place only.

I would agree with you that there is no past or future, only the present ... IF you were speaking of God. For Him there is only an eternal present. But we are stuck in time. We can no more avoid it than we can gravity. It is part of the reality God created for us in which to live. Therefore all of our considerations must be constrained by that reality. But that only relates to this life. One day, either by Uppertaker or undertaker, we will move from this life into the next; and the next is eternal. At that point we will move out of time into the eternal present in which God dwells. And I have absolutely no idea what that will be like. Like Bart Millard I can only imagine. As the apostle John wrote in his old age: "Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is." And that knowledge is good enough for me!

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

Its posts like this that help me constantly realize I am in the right forum...lol.

Well said. Margery. I am not too scientifically literate. But I too found it interesting to note that light travels differently when we are not observing it. Than when we are. The difference being our observation. Go figure? Not even sure how that might parlay beyond just an underscore to the "organic" take vs the "look mom, no hands" take on things. I had seen how it applied in the church body dynamic to a degree. But I would like to suggest something too Margery. And in my saying this, I pretend not to be more informed here. For I believe there are aspects to quantum pyhysics and mechanics I cannot know. And I just want to say here that I yield to the finer points of others for their reasons in what they see in systems like quauntumn physics. But I have a little formula of my own.

I do not believe there is any time but the present...always. There is not future and there is not past simultanously operating while and as we have the present.

I have Trump to thank for this...lol. Let me explain. Back in 2017 I was interested in the consideration of if perhaps the AC might try and change times and seasons through pyhysics. Might he believe and try perhaps to find a time worm hole or make a time machine where he believes he can go back in time and undue the cross. There were some stange YouTube channels in those days, no doubt this comment of mine might reflect. So what does that have to do with Trump? lol.

Well it is noted that historically Trump's uncle Fred was a genius that the government tasked it evaluate Nikoli Tesla's inventions once he passed. The government likely was looking for weapon technology no doubt. Tesla was rated as smarter than Edison (but Edison was popularized because he had a more decent family life while Tesla was a womanizer). Of the two, it would seem Tesla was quite a bit more ahead of his time than even Edison. But was downplayed. At the time, Fred, did not seem to provide the government with new weapon Intel. But had he found any, would we know? In any event those secrets had been in the Trump family line for decades. Which made me wonder if Tesla might have discovered time travel. And is Trump a time travelor...lol.

Now the short answer is no. But I postulated. Is it possible for a Trump of the past to time travel and visit a Trump of the future? Can there be two Trumps in the same time? This would somewhat be based on the theory in quautnumn physics that there are other versions of us (you and me) had we made other choices in life. And the quauntumn universe seems to be very popular commercially in America. So it would seem to be the side of the Mandella Effect, that might have squeaked by, backed by real science. I quickly came to the conclusion that time existing outside of the here and now is not a thing because could there actually be Trump from the past visiting Trump of the future? No. Because God made one of any of us. There is not a version of us going to heaven and a version of us going to hell, for example. So there is just one of us. That's it. However demineions might be considered, it would not appear it would be in relation to time being active outside the here and now nor other versions of our oursevels.

. . . . .

Now here is what I believe is a better take away than trying to consider if Trump is a time traveler...lol. As I was raised in the Reformed Camp, it was a very popular thing to say what you have shared here: God is present at all times at the same time. I tried to look that up in scripture. And actually, that does not exist. It is a fascinating idea. But I could never find it in the Bible. I don't believe for example, as the American Reformed perspective does, that God knows the future because He ordained it. If God did not ordain it, then He does not know it. This is circling in some reformed camps these days. I believe God knows the future because He is God. And knows all things. There is evidence in the Bible that some things that did come to pass God did not consider for it to be. One would be in Gen 6. The other, Jer 19:5:

5 and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, a thing which I did not command nor speak of, nor did it ever enter My mind.

So to me this would suggest that God does not ordain every microsecond to occur and that is why He knows the future. But also, I would say that God does not know the future because it already exists in time somewhere. I don't think there is a context of time that exists anywhere but the here and now. But I love time travel movies and stuff. Its super fun to consider. And I was open to where ever time traveling Trump might have led. But where these seem to cross over in our contemporary moment is how we have considered quantum physicis. The idea today (such as with CERN) is to look into other dimensions. I do believe there are others. But I don't believe it is other versions of us. Or other places in time.

So the clearest thing for me is that there cannot be any other versions of ourselves because we are created in His image and therefore there are not versions of ousrelves where one would choose Christ and one not. I know you were not going there dear sister. I am just saying this is where that line of thinking lead me to consider. So I came to realize that there is no future or past for God to be omnipresent in. Now it could be possible that there are other existing times but the ability to travel to it can't be done. But the premise I understood from the American Reformed perspective seemed intriguing. However, it kind of stood out to me as one of those philopshies that camp can tend to do to overlay philosophy over scripture. For I believed that very notion that God saw all time at the same time because He is at all times at the same time. I am not saying that cannot be. What I am suggesting is that the only time that is is now. Now since we can't know, this is course is my opinion. But what can be measured is: Where in scripture does it say that God is present at all times at the same time?" I don't believe it does.

. . . . .

I mean this in no way to rain on any creative process. For I love the enthusiasm to consider. Amen. Its just I thought it might be interesting to share a story of my own journey in that sort of thing and where it kind of landed me. So if the AC does try to travel time, perhaps it might seem like he could. Would that not be super bizarre to convince a world that AC changed the outcome of the crucification? Whatever that future level of deception will be, it will be convincing. Perhaps not that. But the idea for me came from the gnostic channels I came across in 2017 that would entertain that the God of the old testament was thought by some channels on YouTube to be a version of how the gnostics saw God. And it was a twisted mess for me to unravel.

In any event, you have a very keen and intriguing mind. So perhaps there are aspects I am not considering here. It may not be that quantum physics plays much into prophecy. But it seems to be gaining popularity today (I.e. the Mandella Effect...CERN...the God particle...recreating the big bang etc). In all of this I reckon the "I AM" placement for me would be in His utter personhood. Of which all the here and now ever emerges from one timeless, Himself. We have heard in the American Reformed perspective that God is outside of time. And this is interesting to consider, no doubt. But at this point I am not even sure what that might mean in a way. Like if the only time is here and now because of His "I AMness," then how can He be outside Himself? lol. I know that sounds silly. And these of course are categories that transcend us. But for me I guess the reason I would wade in this side of the philophical swimming pool is because it would appear to me that God seeing all time at the same time is akin to God knowing all things because He ordained them all. Those two don't have to go together I suppose. And I am sure there are good arguments how the do not, amen. But it would seem that what they do share perhaps is philosphical qualities venturing beyond how scripture informs about Him.

In any case, any feedback or contrast is of course welcome. I am just sharing some things I had thought on this kind of issue in the past. it would be interesting in how you might ponder. Blessings.

Brother you should make a movie

 

[mattfivefour]

This is an aside to this specific discussion, but relevant. Recently I read an excellent article by Dr. John Frame, an emeritus professor of systematic theology and philosophy at the Reformed Theological Seminary in Orlando, Florida. It's entitled At 80 I'm More Aware Of Mystery. It's a fascinating read by a theologian who is definitely not your typical theologian, but a humble man whose depth of learning has not altered his humility. Here is how he concluded his essay:
--------

As I get older, I am less and less impressed by people, including theologians, who think they have everything figured out. Theologians readily confess God’s incomprehensibility as a doctrinal point, but often they go on from there to write as if they had that ultimate and final knowledge that belongs to God alone.​

We need to get over the idea that theology takes all the mystery out of the world.​

In conservative theology, writers tend to confess mystery, but then go on to meticulously explain such things as the order of God’s decrees and the inner activities of the Trinitarian persons without any clear biblical basis.​

​

Liberal writers say that conservative theologians claim too much knowledge of the mysterious God, but then they go on to explain in great detail what government programs God demands of us to help the needy—again, without biblical basis.​

​

At 80, I look at both types of theology with sadness and amusement. God is not here to motivate our rationalistic quest. God is Lord of heaven and earth. He comes to drive us to repent of sin and embrace Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.​

I think we would all be well advised to keep that in mind. God is transcendent above us to such a degree that we cannot even hope to comprehend Him. It is pride that gets us digging deeper and deeper and believing that we can figure Him out. He has revealed to us what He wants us to know. And I would suggest that until we can live up to 100% of that knowledge, it is vanity to seek more knowledge.

(Btw. I encourage everyone to read the entire essay here: John Frame: At 80, I’m More Aware of Mystery)

 

[TCC]

Regarding what is called the Multiverse- at the time I looked at Quantum physics, there were 2 theories competing. One is the multiverse, where there are multiple options ever expanding with the choices we take in life. Option A and Option B. That was (in 2001 or so) the minority opinion. But it got a lot of traction in movies and sci fi. Multiple "time lines" ever expanding outwards.

The majority opinion Option B -which I think makes sense in the natural as well as from a Biblical point of view is the one single universe where decisions are made- God gave us free will to make decisions- and those decisions change our future especially the most important decision of all- what do we believe about Christ? Is He the one we turn to for Salvation or do we reject Him and His substitutionary atonement on the Cross.

Pick the former and we will end up in heaven in spite of the bumps and turns our life takes. We are saved once and for all. This eliminates the "multiverse" of multiple possible time lines and outcomes. (I admit it's fun to think about multiple versions of a time travelling Trump )

Jesus assures us of this here: John 6:39 NIV "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day."

And in context this absolutely means people who turn to Him for salvation as the other verses around this verse show.

35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.

36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.

37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Just this passage alone eliminates multiple time lines. Each individual is given a choice, and the consequences of their choice about Christ is eternal. From the moment of Salvation for the saved, and from the moment of death for the unsaved. Up till death each person that is still unsaved, still has choice. After death the opportunity for choice is gone.

Amen. Actually i find myself not interested in views on movies that deal with this subject matter. Although i did see the Mandella Effect and called it homeowork....lol. But yeah like Spiderman and the Metaverse etc...i am not interested in narratives that do that. It gets so fantasy like it bores me. Because of why we know this is not real. But yeah like Trump time travel...or even time travel movies in general i still love with a huge hug. I don't believe there are other times, but it does not bother me like the alternative time line theories. It is fascinating to consider. And i do believe this though...that if God wanted time to eternally exist (like it is 1920 somewhere in the universe), amen.

 

[TCC]

Well, brother, I tried to hang on for the ride there and I did make it to the end, though you almost flung me off a few times on the journey. But setting aside your wilder flights are fancy, I think the gist of the matter is this: does God know the future or does He not know the future?

I cannot imagine a God who is omniscient (not to mention omnipresent and omnipotent) being surprised by anything. I can't see Him sitting in heaven going, "Wow I didn't see that coming! but that's okay cuz I can handle that." That's ridiculous. Sheer logic dictates that the God who has revealed Himself to us in the Bible must know everything past, present and future. And all of His actions as He has recorded for us in His Word demonstrate that truth.

When you say you cannot find the idea that God is present at all times at the same time in Scripture, I think you're going in with a preconception. You are looking for those exact words (or approximations thereof) and missing the evidence that attests to it: namely the many instances when God clearly is everywhere present and everywhere knowledge. I see Job saying: "His eyes are on the ways of a man, and He sees his every step" (Job 34:21), which would be impossible for the billions on this earth if He were not everywhere present at all times. King David is more direct when, in Psalm 139, he says if I go to heaven You're there; if I go to hell You're there; if I go to the furthest parts of the earth you're already there and Your hand leads me. Where can I flee from Your presence?

I don't have time to list all the places in Scripture that show the same thing. The evidence is all there, brother, if we don't go in with any a priori.

Additionally, God Himself says He is omnipresent. Isn't that what He says in Jeremiah 23:23? "Am I a God at hand, saith Jehovah, and not a God afar off?" Or, as the CEV summarizes it: "I am everywhere--both near and far." From this and many parallel verses I have to conclude that He is a God who is everywhere and not in one place only.

I would agree with you that there is no past or future, only the present ... IF you were speaking of God. For Him there is only an eternal present. But we are stuck in time. We can no more avoid it than we can gravity. It is part of the reality God created for us in which to live. Therefore all of our considerations must be constrained by that reality. But that only relates to this life. One day, either by Uppertaker or undertaker, we will move from this life into the next; and the next is eternal. At that point we will move out of time into the eternal present in which God dwells. And I have absolutely no idea what that will be like. Like Bart Millard I can only imagine. As the apostle John wrote in his old age: "Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is." And that knowledge is good enough for me!

Amen Pastor. I do believe the scripture teaches God is all knowing. And all present. Amen. The being before time thing though for me was quite a significant wake up call on some levels discerning differences between theology and philosophy. On the note of His knowing everything there is something precious there too I find. And perhaps this greatly speaks of His great I Am-ness as well. That even though He knows all things, He can be honestly in a moment where that knowledge does not drive His relation to a person or thing at this moment. To me this is so otherly other than (Holy). Where like He can know all things to know and the future and all, but be totally in the moment with Adam in sincere parental fashion asking where he is in the garden. Like God able to honestly and robustly be in our moment sincerely aside from all He knows. He is able to relate to His creation as though He did not. Not because He did not know. But because he cares and is able to relate to His creation authentically in the real moment. There is something categorically wonderous about that--transcending even His knowing all and being everywhere at the same time.

Another example of this is like when He came to Israel first before opening the offer up to the gentile world. He knew they would reject Him. He knew one of His own would betray Him. He knew Israel would have to be diaspora-ed. Yet, He came. He offered. He went to them first. And He literally honestly give them the opportunity for their kingdom.

I have seen arenas where theological theories trying to combine predeterminism with free will. My take is that God only seems to preordain some things. Yet reality is peppered with free will. Because He has created us in His image. There are several debates i have seen over the years regarding the tension between free will and fate. And Because of who He is, i would see mostly free will with definite ordainments along the way. But not our fate. There are some theological approaches that might look at God's foreknowledge as a way to insist on pre-determinism. And to me that affords the science or schematic glory over the person. Where i would just about see it the total opposite way. Not that God does not preordain some things. He most certainly does and has. But that tension i don't see in free will vs determinism. I see it more like God's I Am-ness supersedes logics or a priori or theological fabric and make up (thematics or other things having not to do so much with ontology). But that what is preeminent about Him is "being." Vs. what is common in theology...to see His person through impersonal theology. Which is where we might end up with things like determinism etc.

I think we share in like terms on this one Pastor. That God is what He is beyond our "what." Because as the ontology of I Am-ness transcends any systematic construct ontology is placed in, so is His Person and Being in relation to what "what" He does with that state of His being. In other words, free will vs fate are the clothing of concept. Whereas God Himself (the Person in how He moves and has His Being) transcends our concept of being. Much less our concept of ontology. And in this same way of His Holiness being utterly other than His creation--yet mankind also be in the image of Him...wow...those links would seem to be the blood flow of ideology proper compared perhaps to imaginings of how His person operates in the confines of our categories. If that makes sense...lol. Sorry i know i did not simplify. But just trying to point to where my thoughts go on the matter. Blessings.

 

[TCC]

This is an aside to this specific discussion, but relevant. Recently I read an excellent article by Dr. John Frame, an emeritus professor of systematic th1eology and philosophy at the Reformed Theological Seminary in Orlando, Florida. It's entitled At 80 I'm More Aware Of Mystery. It's a fascinating read by a theologian who is definitely not your typical theologian, But a humble man whose depth of learning is not altered his humility. Here is how he concluded his essay:
--------

As I get older, I am less and less impressed by people, including theologians, who think they have everything figured out. Theologians readily confess God’s incomprehensibility as a doctrinal point, but often they go on from there to write as if they had that ultimate and final knowledge that belongs to God alone.​

In conservative theology, writers tend to confess mystery, but then go on to meticulously explain such things as the order of God’s decrees and the inner activities of the Trinitarian persons without any clear biblical basis.​

​

Liberal writers say that conservative theologians claim too much knowledge of the mysterious God, but then they go on to explain in great detail what government programs God demands of us to help the needy—again, without biblical basis.​

​

At 80, I look at both types of theology with sadness and amusement. God is not here to motivate our rationalistic quest. God is Lord of heaven and earth. He comes to drive us to repent of sin and embrace Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.​

I think we would all be well advised to keep that in mind. God is transcendent above us to such a degree that we cannot even hope to comprehend Him. It is pride that gets us digging deeper and deeper and believing that we can figure Him out. He has revealed to us what he wants us to know. And I would suggest that until we can live up to 100% of that knowledge, it is vanity to seek more knowledge.

(Btw. I encourage everyone to read the entire essay here: John Frame: At 80, I’m More Aware of Mystery)

I didn't read this before, but in heart i believe is the same sentiment i was hoping to express in my other post recently about ontology. Pastor this is a great example of although i am no longer reformed...i have much appreciation in so much of their writing, research, and theological consideration. This is a beautify example of that.

Alternatively I got addicted to what systematics look like when applied to the body dynamic. I came out of a drug addiction actually trying to run from God. Acknowledging that the church i knew at that time knew better...i somewhat surrounding my sense making with and by what appeared to me to be their wholistic plea of me to see that God was the zeitgeist working in their ministry philosophy operating system. And i downloaded their surrogate zeitgeist operating system because i knew my own thoughts were wrong and led me to drug addiction. Of the two...those two addictions? The Zeitgeist is a lot harder of an addiction to kick. Even after very well knowing it is wrong.

Because i still see how smoothly it still operates within the world. How many of it tenants are far more mature and respectable than my own. Yet Christ in me, is more than the fundamentalist zeitgeist in the body dynamic operating in concert as though were one being. If this sounds odd, be blessed you never had the pleasure. For her simulatcrum-antix far transcend home grown discernment. I find myself feeling as though to go out in the back yard and build my self a discernment shed...lol. As God reminds me, it is Christ in "you" or Christ beyond you who nourishes real discernment. So much so that He is able to even show me aside from the zeitgeist cutting right through the zeitgeist, He can be found transcending them. In His simple pure milk of the word. In that pasteurized sustenance seems to be true...that His Spirit doth live.

In any event, wow, beautiful sentiments from the reformed camp in that article brother. Blessings.

 

[KMendel]

I have always believed that each and every soul that is born - and Adam and Eve, too - are eternal beings. We are born with eternal life. Our choice of accepting or denying God’s Son determines where we will spend that eternal life. If we are given eternal life only when we accept Christ, then the unsaved would NOT have eternal life and there would be no hell.

 

[Margery]

Just for kicks and giggles, because the rabbit trails in this thread are way more fun than what I launched it for - I'm going to toss in a wonderful Christian physicist, mathematician Barry Setterfield.

He is a solid Christian from Australia. As a young man he questioned the idea that the speed of light was a uniform constant. His paper on that was sponsored by my uncle, a geophysicist. They both suffered as a result. At that point NOBODY questioned the speed of light because it had to be constant- it measures the "age" of the universe as everyone thought.

Well it sorta does, but the nature of light and it's speed is NOT constant. Every physicist after Barry used HIS WORK and finally a few mainstream physicists realized, it was NOT constant. BUT NOBODY APOLOGIZED to Barry or my uncle.

So things that are measured in the speed of light (like the early expansion of the universe) are no longer tethered to a constant. Which turns the age of the universe upside down. SO EMBARRASSING for the Big Bang people and Hugh Ross and billions and billions of years..... Heaven forfend!!!!

Both Barry and my uncle are/were Young Earth Creationists. (my uncle is with the Lord, Barry is still around annoying the mainstream physics community no end) and Barry was a close friend of Dr Chuck Missler (I never asked my uncle if he knew him too). There is a lovely video on the YouTube universe somewhere of Barry and Chuck talking about the Zero Point Energy model of the early universe and how real physics can account for a few days of creation. (literal days)

Here is how the physics of a universe born in a few days could actually work: https://www.barrysetterfield.org/
start here: https://www.barrysetterfield.org/Plasma Universe and Creation/ and being a good scientist Barry is the first to tell you it's just a theory, subject to modifications or tossing out altogether if something better comes along. Unlike his peers in the mainstream, he has the humility to let God have the final say.

So that explains plasma and how it works Lots of good diagrams, you don't have to have a math background to get where he's going.


then go here: https://www.barrysetterfield.org/ZPE Presentation/ and this explains how time gets into the conversation. Barry explains the Red Shift, Speed of Light (I looked, I think that link he includes is the one that my uncle sponsored that created such a dust up) and finally he touches on HOW COME RADIOMETRIC DATING IS SO COUNTER TO A YOUNG EARTH? Well once you see how Barry works it out, you won't wonder any more.

Barry is nothing if he isn't upsetting the apple cart. (He's a dispensationalist too, and pre trib Rapture believer so of course he launched a paper on that too, just under the physics ones because life isn't worth living if he isn't upsetting someone's apple cart. Here it is The Timing of the Rapture https://www.barrysetterfield.org/Rapture Timing.html

And God DID create the universe and all it contains in 6 literal days, and on the 7th He rested. Just like the Bible says.

I don't have my physics books around anymore, I drifted away from interest in them.

But in one I had found another counter culture guy who made physics people see red, and it was to do with time not actually existing. Except we are stuck in an arrow of time forever going forward, never able to go backwards and not able to skip ahead (except those of us who read prophecy). The progress of our lives thru time, thru our shared history seems to be glued together outside of time. He wasn't a Christian and I remember laughing and thinking Boy You AINT SEEN NOTHIN' YET!!!!

I tried to find his research, his name- he is Scottish and lives in some remote place in Scotland, in a cottage somewhere. Publishing papers on his own. I think his ideas came out in the late 90s.

 

[TCC]

I have always believed that each and every soul that is born - and Adam and Eve, too - are eternal beings. We are born with eternal life. Our choice of accepting or denying God’s Son determines where we will spend that eternal life. If we are given eternal life only when we accept Christ, then the unsaved would NOT have eternal life and there would be no hell.

For me this opens an entirely different can of something. Remember when Adam and Eve were blocked from the tree of life so that they would not live eternally in a sinful state? Just right there, pondering like how that all works is interesting. Because i think for sure that when we die our soul does live on. And in that sense maybe eternal life is appose to eternal existence without the qualities of "true life." Well that is how it strikes me but brings up a fascinating point

 

[TCC]

Just for kicks and giggles, because the rabbit trails in this thread are way more fun than what I launched it for - I'm going to toss in a wonderful Christian physicist, mathematician Barry Setterfield.

He is a solid Christian from Australia. As a young man he questioned the idea that the speed of light was a uniform constant. His paper on that was sponsored by my uncle, a geophysicist. They both suffered as a result. At that point NOBODY questioned the speed of light because it had to be constant- it measures the "age" of the universe as everyone thought.

Well it sorta does, but the nature of light and it's speed is NOT constant. Every physicist after Barry used HIS WORK and finally a few mainstream physicists realized, it was NOT constant. BUT NOBODY APOLOGIZED to Barry or my uncle.

So things that are measured in the speed of light (like the early expansion of the universe) are no longer tethered to a constant. Which turns the age of the universe upside down. SO EMBARRASSING for the Big Bang people and Hugh Ross and billions and billions of years..... Heaven forfend!!!!

Both Barry and my uncle are/were Young Earth Creationists. (my uncle is with the Lord, Barry is still around annoying the mainstream physics community no end) and Barry was a close friend of Dr Chuck Missler (I never asked my uncle if he knew him too). There is a lovely video on the YouTube universe somewhere of Barry and Chuck talking about the Zero Point Energy model of the early universe and how real physics can account for a few days of creation. (literal days)

Here is how the physics of a universe born in a few days could actually work: https://www.barrysetterfield.org/
start here: https://www.barrysetterfield.org/Plasma Universe and Creation/ and being a good scientist Barry is the first to tell you it's just a theory, subject to modifications or tossing out altogether if something better comes along. Unlike his peers in the mainstream, he has the humility to let God have the final say.

So that explains plasma and how it works Lots of good diagrams, you don't have to have a math background to get where he's going.


then go here: https://www.barrysetterfield.org/ZPE Presentation/ and this explains how time gets into the conversation. Barry explains the Red Shift, Speed of Light (I looked, I think that link he includes is the one that my uncle sponsored that created such a dust up) and finally he touches on HOW COME RADIOMETRIC DATING IS SO COUNTER TO A YOUNG EARTH? Well once you see how Barry works it out, you won't wonder any more.

Barry is nothing if he isn't upsetting the apple cart. (He's a dispensationalist too, and pre trib Rapture believer so of course he launched a paper on that too, just under the physics ones because life isn't worth living if he isn't upsetting someone's apple cart. Here it is The Timing of the Rapture https://www.barrysetterfield.org/Rapture Timing.html

And God DID create the universe and all it contains in 6 literal days, and on the 7th He rested. Just like the Bible says.

I don't have my physics books around anymore, I drifted away from interest in them.

But in one I had found another counter culture guy who made physics people see red, and it was to do with time not actually existing. Except we are stuck in an arrow of time forever going forward, never able to go backwards and not able to skip ahead (except those of us who read prophecy). The progress of our lives thru time, thru our shared history seems to be glued together outside of time. He wasn't a Christian and I remember laughing and thinking Boy You AINT SEEN NOTHIN' YET!!!!

I tried to find his research, his name- he is Scottish and lives in some remote place in Scotland, in a cottage somewhere. Publishing papers on his own. I think his ideas came out in the late 90s.

My dear sister you have such rich family history. It is really a delight to know you. And so lovely to be on a forum with the things you have been exposed to and your genetic pedigree seems pretty cool too. I'm posting here mainly to remember to check these out. But just to check, Barry believes in young earth, yes? Awesome to see a scientist who believes in God have a rapture timing...lol. I don't recall coming across one of those before Blessings.

 

[TCC]

Brother you should make a movie

Lol. Thanks. You know one time i did write a term paper for a creative writing course. It was about a biologically engineered AI woman who was constructed to be able to counter advanced AI if it took over the world. So the story was about her waking up (coming of age) to her moment. I think it was like one of those 10 page papers (short story). Closest to making a movie i'll likely get. lol. I remember in those days I read Station Eleven. And i was so fully amazed at how the author used words. Wow. They seemed to have made it into a miniseries. Maybe I will check it out. I remember I was so impressed by how the book was written i don't recall too much of the story lol. It made an impact on me to realize dang what solid writing looks like. Blessings and Happy New Year

 

[Margery]

My dear sister you have such rich family history. It is really a delight to know you. And so lovely to be on a forum with the things you have been exposed to and your genetic pedigree seems pretty cool too. I'm posting here mainly to remember to check these out. But just to check, Barry believes in young earth, yes? Awesome to see a scientist who believes in God have a rapture timing...lol. I don't recall coming across one of those before Blessings.

Yes he absolutely does believe in a young earth. His site presents a physicist's view of how a Creation in 6 days could take place using Zero Point Energy and Plasma Physics.

In fact he presents way more than that to explain the long day of Joshua, and how it affected things, how the flood affected things, a LOT of stuff. He has a YT channel besides his site linked above. here is one of his YT videos on the earth catastrophes in the time of Job. - YouTube or this one (not on his YT site) where he and Chuck are just enjoying getting together to talk about Zero Point Energy - YouTube

 

[TCC]

Yes he absolutely does believe in a young earth. His site presents a physicist's view of how a Creation in 6 days could take place using Zero Point Energy and Plasma Physics.

In fact he presents way more than that to explain the long day of Joshua, and how it affected things, how the flood affected things, a LOT of stuff. He has a YT channel besides his site linked above. here is one of his YT videos on the earth catastrophes in the time of Job. - YouTube or this one (not on his YT site) where he and Chuck are just enjoying getting together to talk about Zero Point Energy - YouTube

Thanks. I'll check it out

 

[Margery]

This is an aside to this specific discussion, but relevant. Recently I read an excellent article by Dr. John Frame, an emeritus professor of systematic theology and philosophy at the Reformed Theological Seminary in Orlando, Florida. It's entitled At 80 I'm More Aware Of Mystery. It's a fascinating read by a theologian who is definitely not your typical theologian, but a humble man whose depth of learning has not altered his humility. Here is how he concluded his essay:
--------

As I get older, I am less and less impressed by people, including theologians, who think they have everything figured out. Theologians readily confess God’s incomprehensibility as a doctrinal point, but often they go on from there to write as if they had that ultimate and final knowledge that belongs to God alone.​

In conservative theology, writers tend to confess mystery, but then go on to meticulously explain such things as the order of God’s decrees and the inner activities of the Trinitarian persons without any clear biblical basis.​

​

Liberal writers say that conservative theologians claim too much knowledge of the mysterious God, but then they go on to explain in great detail what government programs God demands of us to help the needy—again, without biblical basis.​

​

At 80, I look at both types of theology with sadness and amusement. God is not here to motivate our rationalistic quest. God is Lord of heaven and earth. He comes to drive us to repent of sin and embrace Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.​

I think we would all be well advised to keep that in mind. God is transcendent above us to such a degree that we cannot even hope to comprehend Him. It is pride that gets us digging deeper and deeper and believing that we can figure Him out. He has revealed to us what He wants us to know. And I would suggest that until we can live up to 100% of that knowledge, it is vanity to seek more knowledge.

(Btw. I encourage everyone to read the entire essay here: John Frame: At 80, I’m More Aware of Mystery)

I just read it, LOVED IT!

 

[Cheeky200386]

Just for kicks and giggles, because the rabbit trails in this thread are way more fun than what I launched it for - I'm going to toss in a wonderful Christian physicist, mathematician Barry Setterfield.

He is a solid Christian from Australia. As a young man he questioned the idea that the speed of light was a uniform constant. His paper on that was sponsored by my uncle, a geophysicist. They both suffered as a result. At that point NOBODY questioned the speed of light because it had to be constant- it measures the "age" of the universe as everyone thought.

Well it sorta does, but the nature of light and it's speed is NOT constant. Every physicist after Barry used HIS WORK and finally a few mainstream physicists realized, it was NOT constant. BUT NOBODY APOLOGIZED to Barry or my uncle.

So things that are measured in the speed of light (like the early expansion of the universe) are no longer tethered to a constant. Which turns the age of the universe upside down. SO EMBARRASSING for the Big Bang people and Hugh Ross and billions and billions of years..... Heaven forfend!!!!

Both Barry and my uncle are/were Young Earth Creationists. (my uncle is with the Lord, Barry is still around annoying the mainstream physics community no end) and Barry was a close friend of Dr Chuck Missler (I never asked my uncle if he knew him too). There is a lovely video on the YouTube universe somewhere of Barry and Chuck talking about the Zero Point Energy model of the early universe and how real physics can account for a few days of creation. (literal days)

Here is how the physics of a universe born in a few days could actually work: https://www.barrysetterfield.org/
start here: https://www.barrysetterfield.org/Plasma Universe and Creation/ and being a good scientist Barry is the first to tell you it's just a theory, subject to modifications or tossing out altogether if something better comes along. Unlike his peers in the mainstream, he has the humility to let God have the final say.

So that explains plasma and how it works Lots of good diagrams, you don't have to have a math background to get where he's going.


then go here: https://www.barrysetterfield.org/ZPE Presentation/ and this explains how time gets into the conversation. Barry explains the Red Shift, Speed of Light (I looked, I think that link he includes is the one that my uncle sponsored that created such a dust up) and finally he touches on HOW COME RADIOMETRIC DATING IS SO COUNTER TO A YOUNG EARTH? Well once you see how Barry works it out, you won't wonder any more.

Barry is nothing if he isn't upsetting the apple cart. (He's a dispensationalist too, and pre trib Rapture believer so of course he launched a paper on that too, just under the physics ones because life isn't worth living if he isn't upsetting someone's apple cart. Here it is The Timing of the Rapture https://www.barrysetterfield.org/Rapture Timing.html

And God DID create the universe and all it contains in 6 literal days, and on the 7th He rested. Just like the Bible says.

I don't have my physics books around anymore, I drifted away from interest in them.

But in one I had found another counter culture guy who made physics people see red, and it was to do with time not actually existing. Except we are stuck in an arrow of time forever going forward, never able to go backwards and not able to skip ahead (except those of us who read prophecy). The progress of our lives thru time, thru our shared history seems to be glued together outside of time. He wasn't a Christian and I remember laughing and thinking Boy You AINT SEEN NOTHIN' YET!!!!

I tried to find his research, his name- he is Scottish and lives in some remote place in Scotland, in a cottage somewhere. Publishing papers on his own. I think his ideas came out in the late 90s.

I read Barry’s first article and WOW. I was glued to it. I shared it with Mike who loves Physics and Space. He read Stephen Hawkin’s book before he was saved. I know he’ll love this information from a Christian worldview.