He's referring to me and none of what I posted was personal to him but was directed at the topic.
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Is the RAPTURE Really This Month? The Bible’s Timeline Is Shocking
- Thread starter Goodboy
- Start date
I thought as much!
Goodboy, I think you owe Tall Timbers an apology!
Just because a person doesn't agree with an idea or a video that you posted (for people to comment on) doesn't mean that they've attacked you personally!
"this person" as you call himWhile you and I may not agree on some things, I was not speaking of you or anyone that was not specifically directing what they said at me personally. This person seemed to just have a problem with me and again it was not you. I have no problem with you!
is a moderator here, and as such he like the rest of us mods try to keep things in every thread on a good friendly civil basis. AND on a BIBLICAL basis.
He deserves respect for that!
When a moderator has to step in, it's hard when they then become the target, and it's even more of a problem then because you've pointed and hinted that it was Tall Timbers, who is just doing his job here.
Last year you DID get pretty heated in your defence of that date too. And you did get a bit cranky with those of us trying to talk you off that ledge. This does feel like a replay. I was there, and it wasn't pleasant.
As for this video - it's creator said when the rapture would take place --- it is at the 7 minute mark 55 seconds. @Kem quotes him correctly. I went back to check. He starts in on this at the 7:45 mark, explaining the exact day, then goes on to place the rapture just after that.
That is kind of a big deal because it is the covenant that starts the Trib, and the church isn't here for any part of that. Placing it after the signing of the covenant- means that puts the church into the Trib at that very point. That is theologically wrong. Placing the Church inside the Trib at any point is NOT a Pre Trib position.
And that guy teaches that the Rapture is AFTER the covenant that starts the Trib! That is not Pre Trib at all.
That is terrible theology because it places the church, the BODY OF CHRIST here on earth into God's wrath, which is poured out during the entire Tribulation. But God already poured out HIs WRATH on His Son Jesus on the Cross, once for all time and eternity. We who are bought by His blood, forming the church, His body are NOT UNDER THAT WRATH. We CANNOT be here after that covenant that starts the Trib. Because God will NOT EVER pour out His wrath again on Jesus or those covered by His blood
And @Kem also brings up the math that Britt Gillette deals with. That the 2550 exact number of days only happening 6 times after 1948 and the seventh being this year. That sounds amazing, and thankfully Britt looked up that claim, and it's not true.
So even though he meant to encourage, he's teaching bad theology and he's repeated some math without checking and seeing that it is faulty or he's tortured the numbers as Britt said, to make them come out right. Both points mean he is not credible.
Date setting is a problem. It harms our Christian witness. Just because we don't tell our friends that we think it might be Sept 23, doesn't mean that the world isn't watching, mocking and causing hope to die in people who thought maybe just maybe those Christians were right about salvation, but here they are again waving a false date.
We are not commanded to watch by setting dates.
We are to watch with expectant hopefulness that any time Jesus could appear. We will know the season is near, that much is clear from Scripture, but as for dates, that is pure speculation.
It is fine to encourage each other and speculate on when it might happen. But we need to keep that speculation within Biblical limits too. If someone comes out with a date- they are acting as a prophet, and their prophecies are judged biblicly. If they make math mistakes, those need to be pointed out. If someone has had previous false dates, then their future words are not to be listened to (the OT directions on not listening to a proven false prophet)
I hope it's in the next 5 minutes. It might happen some year on the Feast of Trumpets. But like @mattfivefour carefully said, it could be any year! He wasn't setting a date. He was indicating a time of year- in any year. There's a difference.
Just don't get mad if others don't share that enthusiasm for a particular date.
And especially not at a mod whose job it is to keep things within Biblical boundaries. We volunteer our own time here, take time from our families and other obligations to make sure things run well, that everyone here has a chance to talk about what's on their heart, to ask questions and get feedback. But especially to keep it within Biblical standards.
I'm going to lock this thread so we can all get some sleep and come at this tomorrow after some prayer and reflection.
And apologies to all, I've somehow managed to split this thread into 2. I've locked both for now. Blame my incredibly bad computer skills. Really bad computer skills. I can make stuff happen that shouldn't be possible. Oh well. Let's all get some sleep.
No problem, sis. I've recombined them. I'll leave the unlocking of it to you. Sleeping on the topic may help us return with a constructive discussion.
I've unlocked the thread- carry on all.
And thanks to @mattfivefour for merging the thread back to where it should be. I shouldn't touch a computer especially late at night.
I didn't mean to imply that @Goodboy was a false prophet, my goodness no. And this thread is a great one for discussing these matters, and they should be examined, questioned and thought about. That is being a good Berean. He was absolutely right to bring up this video for discussion.
In my reply above when I mention false prophets my worry is about these YouTube guys that come out with this stuff, all wide eyed and enthusiastic, pin a date, let er rip, and then stand back while those who pinned their hopes on that date are disappointed yet again, and repeat the process even when they are found wrong.
I have zero problem with a bit of good speculating, and I'd be happy if we were out of here by then. However whatever date we go, we don't see the Tribulation. For the reasons I listed above.
God doesn't pour out His wrath twice on His Son or those covered by His blood. That was once for all time.
But also as Paul reminds in 2 Thess 2:7-8
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
There is an order of events- he who now restrains- The Restrainer who is the Holy Spirit indwelling each blood bought born again believer covered by the blood -- that restrainer has to be taken out of the way
THEN the lawless one will be revealed - and Paul explains exactly who this person is- and that the Lord will slay when He comes at the end of the Trib.
So we have an exact order of events. First the Rapture, then after that the AC is revealed, then at the end of that period of time Jesus returns at the end of the Trib to put a stop to the AC.
The Tribulation begins with the covenant as Daniel said, that is the time of Jacob's trouble when God pours out His wrath on the world, and brings the Jews thru that Tribulation to belief in Him at which point they call out to Jesus as their Messiah and He returns to rescue His believing brethren and puts a stop to the Tribulation.
And thanks to @mattfivefour for merging the thread back to where it should be. I shouldn't touch a computer especially late at night.
I didn't mean to imply that @Goodboy was a false prophet, my goodness no. And this thread is a great one for discussing these matters, and they should be examined, questioned and thought about. That is being a good Berean. He was absolutely right to bring up this video for discussion.
In my reply above when I mention false prophets my worry is about these YouTube guys that come out with this stuff, all wide eyed and enthusiastic, pin a date, let er rip, and then stand back while those who pinned their hopes on that date are disappointed yet again, and repeat the process even when they are found wrong.
I have zero problem with a bit of good speculating, and I'd be happy if we were out of here by then. However whatever date we go, we don't see the Tribulation. For the reasons I listed above.
God doesn't pour out His wrath twice on His Son or those covered by His blood. That was once for all time.
But also as Paul reminds in 2 Thess 2:7-8
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
There is an order of events- he who now restrains- The Restrainer who is the Holy Spirit indwelling each blood bought born again believer covered by the blood -- that restrainer has to be taken out of the way
THEN the lawless one will be revealed - and Paul explains exactly who this person is- and that the Lord will slay when He comes at the end of the Trib.
So we have an exact order of events. First the Rapture, then after that the AC is revealed, then at the end of that period of time Jesus returns at the end of the Trib to put a stop to the AC.
The Tribulation begins with the covenant as Daniel said, that is the time of Jacob's trouble when God pours out His wrath on the world, and brings the Jews thru that Tribulation to belief in Him at which point they call out to Jesus as their Messiah and He returns to rescue His believing brethren and puts a stop to the Tribulation.
This is my same concerns. So many post videos on you tube, sound sincere, seems biblical - until one actually fact checks what they watched through reading His Word.
I can only speak for me, but when I step out of my comfort zone, and watch videos like the one from the OP, its easy to fall into the trap of believing this is it! However, within a few days, that euphoria is gone, and I return to His Word, which really is all I need. If He wanted us to know exactly when He will call us Home, that info would be clear in His Word.
I hope the rapture is very soon, but live as if I will be here until my natural death.
TCC
Well-known
In general the way I see videos about potential biblical timings is that it is great that there are interests to look at dates and frame of time to make observations. In general what I have noticed over the years is that there has become a tendency for people making videos that share their views to state it with perhaps a bit too much conviction...lol. Like seeing that something looks like this or that. And then TRIPPLE downing it. Like Craig Bong. And there are those in the pulpit who can swing this way too. To me, that is "the spirit of the age" and not biblical insight. It is a commingling of excitement with a little bit too much of "God likely has me in the zone." Ty Greene does this approach. Although Ty does say things like it is just a possibility, but the way he does his videos is like its gospel truth...lol. So this is a huge trend today. And it is a spirit of the age to project study and conviction "as much as it can seem to be in the bang zone of God offering insight through this person or that person." And I believe in general our generation has become a bit drunk on that. Or maybe even complacently accepting it as the norm. This is a "general" observation I have noticed that has been a trend for many years now.
Although I appreciate the video shared in this thread, and although he did humbly address what happens if it is not correct (which is far more than most might do), what is missing for me in general is a sense of it being a bit too favored in the eyes of the content creator. What I am not saying is that he should doubt himself all over the place. But present it with accompanying counter arguments. They are out there. I believe that approach is healthy for our generation because we seem to be more in favor of sharing our views as though they are "in the zone." I'm not saying we should not consider our convictions as being somewhat in the zone. But in general it just has seemed as disproprotionally...be like...please see my view as valid. And although there is a certain charm to that. Even an innocent charm perhaps. It is I think most healthy for the body to present several sides of a thing even though we might highlight a particular favored view.
So in general on that note, I would not sense stating firmly a new sense of timing to be brave nor foolish. In and of itself it is just an opinion. But since we have become a genetion where "being in the zone" seems to matter a wee bit too much, in light of that, it would be I believe most healthy to consider how we can make video content, and deliver sermons that are not overly populated with too many units of our own conviction as part of whether what is shared is valid or not. If that makes sense? Just sayin.
Blessings.
Although I appreciate the video shared in this thread, and although he did humbly address what happens if it is not correct (which is far more than most might do), what is missing for me in general is a sense of it being a bit too favored in the eyes of the content creator. What I am not saying is that he should doubt himself all over the place. But present it with accompanying counter arguments. They are out there. I believe that approach is healthy for our generation because we seem to be more in favor of sharing our views as though they are "in the zone." I'm not saying we should not consider our convictions as being somewhat in the zone. But in general it just has seemed as disproprotionally...be like...please see my view as valid. And although there is a certain charm to that. Even an innocent charm perhaps. It is I think most healthy for the body to present several sides of a thing even though we might highlight a particular favored view.
So in general on that note, I would not sense stating firmly a new sense of timing to be brave nor foolish. In and of itself it is just an opinion. But since we have become a genetion where "being in the zone" seems to matter a wee bit too much, in light of that, it would be I believe most healthy to consider how we can make video content, and deliver sermons that are not overly populated with too many units of our own conviction as part of whether what is shared is valid or not. If that makes sense? Just sayin.
Blessings.
TCC
Well-known
Based on the many posts regarding this I am going to check out that video. I was not aware of exactly who Britt was. But once I clicked on the video am somewhat familiar with his work. I will check it out and weigh-in in where appropriate. Thanks Margery. On the outset though, my general sense of Britt from a sense of his trajectory of interest and hues of how he places focus, for me, it is interesting. It is good. He is very informative. But I would use a term I don't use often to describe a concern going in I might have.
This is a term I developed during my time in the America Reformed Camp. From what I have seen, Britt can be a wee bit too "Thesis driven," for my blood. Which even though on the more sober sounding side of the spectrum as Britt thankfully is, when we view things with a powerful thesis of ours in mind, it can tend to omit other variable that can in some ways actually help see a more rounded view. Or in its most serious state, entirely change the narrative. In general I like Britt's work. And categorize him kind of in the camp of well meaning informed believers with a lot to offer. But does come with a definite narrative. And just in general in the way I process, having no narrative at all is I guess the worst...lol. But as some are influenced by their narrative perspespectives it can tend to become for the body of Christ a similar condition in how Youtube markets. It sends us video considerations that tend to agree mostly with our world view. Too little of that leaves us thin, too lean, and unable to discern much of anything. But too much of that side of the coin can tend to induce tunnel vision. At least in some ways in how I would view. But open and willing to hear him out. And consider him of value, much, today. Blessings.
LightOfMyLife
Well-known
I agree Andy C I just keep my mind on scripture
Matthew 24:36. There is too much guessing going on, and I am not getting myself offtrack of what The says is true.God has the perfect 
time set so I am sticking to that. Adding an afterthought that the devil wants us to be deceived in our thinking because the battleground is the mind. Be aware of his evil tactics.
I almost never watch the videos, but watched this one. I took it with a grain of salt. Another date setter in a line of hundreds who've done the same. This one intrigued me a lot, but if I do go up in September I probably won't be remembering this video anyway. Someday somebody may actually accidentally pick the right day. Maybe it'll be this guy! Hope springs eternal.
TCC
Well-known
What would be healthy for the body i believe is if a panel got together and discussed how all the guessing affects the body. I know there have likely been some talking head videos on something like that. But even with the more benign versions of stuff like this: Like Tom Hughes, or Tip of the Spear, or Andy Woods, or John Haller...for the sake of the body of Christ, it would be great to have a round table with this topic:I agree Andy C I just keep my mind on scripture
A) How Helpful are Bible Prophecy Updates?
B) How Much of Ministry Persona = a Problem? And What Kind of Problem?
C) What Needs to be Truly Addressed Concerning Prophesy Guessing Game?
D) How Can the Prophesy Leadership Provide a Platform for Whom Christ Died (the body) that Edifies Beyond Corner Pocket Bias?
AND THE BIG ONE...
E) How Much of Church Leadership Taking the Mantle of Prophecy Watch Becoming an Office by Which We Sense to Have an Office Might Lean Toward Self Serving? And Where are Our Blind Spots on that Sort of Thing?
Can we imagine Andy Woods, Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Amir Tsafarti, Jack Hibbs, Jan Markell, Brandon Holthaus, Tom Hughes, Lee Brainard, Zak Spiro, JD Farag, John Haller, Britt Gilette, etc. form a town hall forum 3 or 4 times a year with the intent to help the body dynamic with their differences? A mature, adult, move to help air their differences and work toward helping how those differences can edify the body of Christ over all. But the way prophesy works today seems to be more like marketing principles. Where liking this one over that one because "that one is in the zone" in comparison to Christ's mandate to love one another, is child's play. Especially now that we know that the cornering the market approach to prophesy breeds "i am in the zone...look mom at my ministry" ism in the body. And trains the body unfortunately in "fracture is goodism," mode. But to have the mature concern that individual ministry posturing may not be the most mature way to honor Christ if in deed ya'll...these are the last days. Instead of the humbling affects i suppose that could have, what it seems to crystalize more is ministry value and identity by being in the zone ism. I realize it is all meant to be biblical and in some healthy ways doctrine will divide. But the church has had 2000 years (that is 500 more years than Israel had) to come to a more mature place, especially in the face of it literally being end times.
This this not meant to be a pie in the sky rant. Or a pollyannish bid from the mind of a schoolboy. Rather it is meant i guess as a contrast by how we are considering and processing as a whole. In ways, what the rogue date setting industry is doing in some ways is taking its cue from the sounder more organized and seasoned ministries that tend to champion prophesy watch. Granted the sounder ministries don't date set. But none of them have the interest to round table to the above mentioned affect. We don't even think in those concepts...lol. Its so far off the charter, it probably sounds insane even. But it is kind of that elephant in the room silhouette i believe that can tend to add vicarious fuel to rogue prophesy content makers. I guess the way i would see it is somewhat like the rogue ministry as the closet children of the parental watcher world environment of the same in ways--but mature enough not to date set (but does it do the same internal inventory taking we would like the date setters to also do?). This is not meant to be provocative and upstart like. Rather, just meant as a social commentary contrast. If we had said above round table, I believe the rogue prophesy players would not have as much rope, though, right? Just a thought. Blessings.
RonJohnSilver
Well-known
I have a, I guess, related question. Way up near the top of the thread, I mentioned that speculating about a day, any date, any year, violated the doctrine of imminency. Because if you say something happens on a particular date or day or event, then it can't, can not, happen on any other day/date so it's not imminent. Someone said that imminency was not an actual Biblical doctrine but rather a belief of certain denominations. So, my question. Is imminency a doctrine or just a cultural/denominational belief? Because a lot of pastors fall back on that when discounting dates.
TCC
Well-known
Yes i was the denomination weigh-in. Thanks for asking this Ron. I would love to see some of the views too. Because my sense is that it is believed to be a doctrine because Paul left open the possibility that it could have happened in his life time. And since Paul was an apostle, he likely might be stating that as doctrine and not just from his mere humanity. If that is what immanency is based on, to me, that is neighbor to the argument from silence...which is not all that strong. My take is that the rapture has an appointed time per Rev 12. Paul would not have been a part of that conversation. And although i would not suspect too many to share that Rev 12 view, I guess the biggest problem with immanency being a cohesive biblical thought would be this:
The rapture has to happen near the tribulation period. And it could not be prior to 1948 (for the reason we are not the nation of Israel). So if we see the church and Israel separate. And we see the 70th week for Israel. How can the rapture occur at any time in any age?
In ages prior, sure, we could have held that view and it would have sounded doctrinal. But when Israel came along...that would be an imminency game changer, no?
Cheeky200386
Well-known
I was just about to post his video. It is exactly my thoughts in his video. Thank you posting it.
Cheeky200386
Well-known
I completely agree.
Cheeky200386
Well-known
Date setting is extremely harmful to onlookers and makes Christians look stupid. Brit brought that up in his video and I can see what he means. It's not only believers that can become jaded, but unbelievers will start to see us as weirdos that are constantly wrong and gullible, and I can see how that can negatively impact what they think of the Bible.
I do get excited at the possibility of the rapture happening soon and I love reading the articles on Pete Garcia's blog, but I also know that the Bible never says the date. I fantasize at possible years they speculate about and then I live my life as it may not happen in my lifetime. 2026, for example, is a year many on that blog point to. While I get excited at the possiblity, I am still making plans for my vow renewals in 2027 (Yes, I'm an extreme Type A that God is constantly reminding to hold my plans loosely
). Hey, maybe we'll be raptured and those plans won't happen. I would love that!
I do get excited at the possibility of the rapture happening soon and I love reading the articles on Pete Garcia's blog, but I also know that the Bible never says the date. I fantasize at possible years they speculate about and then I live my life as it may not happen in my lifetime. 2026, for example, is a year many on that blog point to. While I get excited at the possiblity, I am still making plans for my vow renewals in 2027 (Yes, I'm an extreme Type A that God is constantly reminding to hold my plans loosely
). Hey, maybe we'll be raptured and those plans won't happen. I would love that!
Question: Is there a specific time of the year for some of the Rapture verses in Scripture? If so,then shouldn’t we know exactly what time of year to be looking for Him to come? For instance in Micah Chapter 7 it speaks of Summer fruits as a time when the Good man has disappeared out of the earth.
My point is this,many say Imminency is a Biblical concept,but if the Word of God is giving a specific time of year for the season of the Rapture then the Word of God has to come to pass exactly as what is written. I hope it is Imminent otherwise we all have to maybe wait a few more months before we can get into the season again. I am struggling with the concept of Imminency if the Scriptures are pin-pointing a specific time of the year. I am open to be taught on the concept of Imminency and how it relates to the Rapture.
Answer:
Trying to anticipate the Rapture by looking for the most likely date for its occurrence is man’s idea, not God’s. The thought behind the Doctrine of Imminency is that the Lord can come at any time for His Church. As you point out, as soon as a probable date is selected, the Doctrine of Imminency goes out the window.
In the past I’ve written that if the Rapture were to occur on a specific date, then the Feast of Pentecost would be the one most likely becauce it’s the only Biblically significant date that seems to describe the Church.
But I’ve also written that I don’t believe that the Rapture is a date specific event, but is number specific instead. That means that it won’t happen on any particular day, but only when the pre-determined number of humans become believers. This conclusion comes from Romans 11:25. If you stop to think about it, the number specific concept is the only one consistent with the Doctrine of Imminence.
The Rapture And The Doctrine Of Imminency – Grace thru faith
gracethrufaith.com
If we believe the Galilean wedding is a model for the Rapture of the church, the Father will decide that preparations by the son for His Bride are complete and that it is time to go and fetch the Bride. If that is correct then nothing that happens here on earth aside from the pre-determined numbers that will make up the Bride (the Church) need take place before the Rapture occurs. From that comes the Doctrine of Imminency with regards to the Rapture.
If the content in the video were correct, that the signing of that 7 year covenant will happen and the Rapture will immediately follow that, then the Doctrine of Imminency would have turned out to be flawed. The Doctrine is derived from our best understanding of the Word by those who believe the Bible tells us the Rapture will be pre-Tribulational.
Greg
Well-known
I think I mostly know the answer, but where in the Bible does the doctrine of imminency come from? How much is explicitly stated vs how much is logically derived? We’ve touched on that a few times in this thread (or maybe the other one), but I don't think we've developed it fully.
Andiamo
Hanging on to the Throne
Well, I was under the impression that the guy in the video is one of those who believe that the rapture is what starts the tribulation. (I believed that for years!) So to him, he believes that he is a pre-trib rapture believer. But we who know better know that if it happened the way he said (rapture after the covenant) that it would place us inside the tribulation.
