Examining the Five Points of Calvinism

[Hol]

And using "the Father" as the one to draw to Son for today is one way they interlock a seamless soteriological theology of theirs suggesting more significant lean toward the Father (because of their view on sovereignty). But by doing that, it tends to omit Christ as the One who draws now. Christ will always take a back seat to Father in American Calvinism, as i understand it. In terms of the trinity, we as evangelicals know this is true in one or "a" sense (that Christ as Son is sub to the Father, amen). But John Macarthur for a time believed that Jesus was not the Son of God eternal prior to the incarnation. He could not see Jesus as Son submitting to the Father, because admittedly Jmac could not see God submitting to Himself because He is sovereign. Later Jmac did recant of this view.

There’s so much to unlearn there, sorry that you’ve gone through so much. I’d never heard of Calvinism until I was a baby Christian and I’ve never attended a Calvinist church.

Thankfully I’ve been taught a very high view of out triune God’s worship-worthy three Persons who are co-equal with our Father as in charge. We couldn’t pray to Him without the person of Jesus and the power of His Holy Spirit. There’s a seldom taught doctrine that I love, aseity.

If anyone is looking for a good source for learning more about God’s triune three Persons I would recommend Arnold Fruchtenbaum’s Ariel Ministries website: Come and See | Studies

I am not aware though that it says the spirit draws us.

Here are the verses I was thinking of:
John 16:7-9
I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;

(I bolded the word ‘sin’ to point out that it is singular. The Holy Spirit convicts the world that they don’t believe in Jesus—as each of us needed to turn from. We aren’t talking behavior issues. We are turning from doubting God to placing our trust in His love shown in Jesus.)​

In addition:​

John 3:5-8​

Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

2 Corinthians 3:6​

Who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

More thoughts on this—if we respond by simple faith to God, His Word begins to build our faith! Our spirits begin to discern spiritual truth that never made sense to us before: “The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned”

Overall, we don’t need to credit one Person of the Godhead because He is One and had this loving plan in mind before we existed. (I don’t know about you, but I didn’t exist in eternity past.) Personally I hold that God calls sinners who don’t believe in Jesus to turn and simply believe. That includes our loving Father drawing with the Holy Spirit convicting as the Word truly grips us. He first loved us.

Here’s a very nice reminder about the trinity:

The Father's role in the Trinity​

Scripture reveals to us that there is only one God and He exists in three persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a self-existent triunity that we often refer to as the Trinity. All three persons of the Trinity are equal in nature and live in perfect unity and relationship with each other, but Scripture makes it clear that there are distinct roles among the members of the Trinity and an order of subordination among the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Members of the Trinity voluntarily submit to one another. The Holy Spirit submits to the Father and Son, and the Son submits to the Father. This voluntary submission shows us that our God is a God of order while also being the eternal perfection of humility. In the context of the church and in the context of marriage, this is a great example to remember. When Scripture speaks of believers submitting to one another or wives submitting to husbands, keep in mind this is a practice that is first demonstrated in God Himself. God isn't asking us to do something that He doesn't do as well.

Within the Trinity, God the Father operates as the Head. As the Head, He sent God the Son into the world to accomplish our salvation.

Who is God the Father and what does He do?

www.biblestudyheadquarters.com

 

[mattfivefour]

(I bolded the word ‘sin’ to point out that it is singular. The Holy Spirit convicts the world that they don’t believe in Jesus—as each of us needed to turn from. We aren’t talking behavior issues. We are turning from doubting God to placing our trust in His love shown in Jesus.)

It is singular because in most cases in the New Testament the word translated sin is referring to the sin nature -- that "old man", as Paul termed it, who loves self and rejects God's authority over him. Thanks to Adam, we are all born with it. Thanks to Jesus, we can be set free from it ... its penalty, its power, and even its presence. (The first is instantaneous and occurs at the moment of salvation; the second is progressive and is ongoing in our life; the third is also instantaneous and will occur the moment we leave this life.)

 

[Hol]

It is singular because in most cases in the New Testament the word translated sin is referring to the sin nature -- that "old man", as Paul termed it, who loves self and rejects God's authority over him. Thanks to Adam, we are all born with it. Thanks to Jesus, we can be set free from it ... its penalty, its power, and even its presence. (The first is instantaneous and occurs at the moment of salvation; the second is progressive and is ongoing in our life; the third is also instantaneous and will occur the moment we leave this life.)

I see the context of the verse as sin is that they don’t believe. That’s the one thing that God first desires to change in us:

"...the Gospel is not good advice to be obeyed, it is good news to be believed." Harry Ironside

 

[TCC]

There’s so much to unlearn there, sorry that you’ve gone through so much. I’d never heard of Calvinism until I was a baby Christian and I’ve never attended a Calvinist church.

Thankfully I’ve been taught a very high view of out triune God’s worship-worthy three Persons who are co-equal with our Father as in charge. We couldn’t pray to Him without the person of Jesus and the power of His Holy Spirit. There’s a seldom taught doctrine that I love, aseity.

If anyone is looking for a good source for learning more about God’s triune three Persons I would recommend Arnold Fruchtenbaum’s Ariel Ministries website: Come and See | Studies


Here are the verses I was thinking of:
John 16:7-9
I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;

(I bolded the word ‘sin’ to point out that it is singular. The Holy Spirit convicts the world that they don’t believe in Jesus—as each of us needed to turn from. We aren’t talking behavior issues. We are turning from doubting God to placing our trust in His love shown in Jesus.)​

In addition:​

John 3:5-8​

Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

2 Corinthians 3:6​

Who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

More thoughts on this—if we respond by simple faith to God, His Word begins to build our faith! Our spirits begin to discern spiritual truth that never made sense to us before: “The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned”

Overall, we don’t need to credit one Person of the Godhead because He is One and had this loving plan in mind before we existed. (I don’t know about you, but I didn’t exist in eternity past.) Personally I hold that God calls sinners who don’t believe in Jesus to turn and simply believe. That includes our loving Father drawing with the Holy Spirit convicting as the Word truly grips us. He first loved us.

Here’s a very nice reminder about the trinity:

The Father's role in the Trinity​

Scripture reveals to us that there is only one God and He exists in three persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a self-existent triunity that we often refer to as the Trinity. All three persons of the Trinity are equal in nature and live in perfect unity and relationship with each other, but Scripture makes it clear that there are distinct roles among the members of the Trinity and an order of subordination among the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Members of the Trinity voluntarily submit to one another. The Holy Spirit submits to the Father and Son, and the Son submits to the Father. This voluntary submission shows us that our God is a God of order while also being the eternal perfection of humility. In the context of the church and in the context of marriage, this is a great example to remember. When Scripture speaks of believers submitting to one another or wives submitting to husbands, keep in mind this is a practice that is first demonstrated in God Himself. God isn't asking us to do something that He doesn't do as well.

Within the Trinity, God the Father operates as the Head. As the Head, He sent God the Son into the world to accomplish our salvation.

Who is God the Father and what does He do?

www.biblestudyheadquarters.com

Thanks Hol. Very elquent and raw real look into Him. In this way it is seldom expressed. Or at least that I recall coming across. And these roles of the triune God are not only what He has been forever...but what He shows about Himself overtime in how the word demonstrates Him too over the centuries in canon. Incredible thoughts. Thanks dear sister

 

[mattfivefour]

I see the context of the verse as sin is that they don’t believe. That’s the one thing that God first desires to change in us:

"...the Gospel is not good advice to be obeyed, it is good news to be believed." Harry Ironside

Yes, indeed @Hol. That is the first thing He must change in us. But absent God compelling a person to believe, what is it do you think that causes a person to turn from unbelief to belief?

 

[Waiting]

There’s so much to unlearn there, sorry that you’ve gone through so much. I’d never heard of Calvinism until I was a baby Christian and I’ve never attended a Calvinist church.

Thankfully I’ve been taught a very high view of out triune God’s worship-worthy three Persons who are co-equal with our Father as in charge. We couldn’t pray to Him without the person of Jesus and the power of His Holy Spirit. There’s a seldom taught doctrine that I love, aseity.

If anyone is looking for a good source for learning more about God’s triune three Persons I would recommend Arnold Fruchtenbaum’s Ariel Ministries website: Come and See | Studies


Here are the verses I was thinking of:
John 16:7-9
I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;

(I bolded the word ‘sin’ to point out that it is singular. The Holy Spirit convicts the world that they don’t believe in Jesus—as each of us needed to turn from. We aren’t talking behavior issues. We are turning from doubting God to placing our trust in His love shown in Jesus.)​

In addition:​

John 3:5-8​

Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

2 Corinthians 3:6​

Who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

More thoughts on this—if we respond by simple faith to God, His Word begins to build our faith! Our spirits begin to discern spiritual truth that never made sense to us before: “The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned”

Overall, we don’t need to credit one Person of the Godhead because He is One and had this loving plan in mind before we existed. (I don’t know about you, but I didn’t exist in eternity past.) Personally I hold that God calls sinners who don’t believe in Jesus to turn and simply believe. That includes our loving Father drawing with the Holy Spirit convicting as the Word truly grips us. He first loved us.

Here’s a very nice reminder about the trinity:

The Father's role in the Trinity​

Scripture reveals to us that there is only one God and He exists in three persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a self-existent triunity that we often refer to as the Trinity. All three persons of the Trinity are equal in nature and live in perfect unity and relationship with each other, but Scripture makes it clear that there are distinct roles among the members of the Trinity and an order of subordination among the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Members of the Trinity voluntarily submit to one another. The Holy Spirit submits to the Father and Son, and the Son submits to the Father. This voluntary submission shows us that our God is a God of order while also being the eternal perfection of humility. In the context of the church and in the context of marriage, this is a great example to remember. When Scripture speaks of believers submitting to one another or wives submitting to husbands, keep in mind this is a practice that is first demonstrated in God Himself. God isn't asking us to do something that He doesn't do as well.

Within the Trinity, God the Father operates as the Head. As the Head, He sent God the Son into the world to accomplish our salvation.

Who is God the Father and what does He do?

www.biblestudyheadquarters.com

My church has a Calvin base to it, and even though I am not of that mindset any longer, I can appreciate the changes I have seen there though over the years much less preaching on it. . LOL, even our minister who retired a few months ago made a comment not long ago that he enjoys some things Calvin has written but he also understands not all in the congregation do. My church are strong defenders of the Trinity though.

Also @Hol, I appreciate your link to Arnold Fruchtenbaum’s Ariel Ministries website: Come and See | Studies and if it is alright with you would like to post it elsewhere and will give you the credit for the find. There is some great stuff there.

 

[Hol]

Also @Hol, I appreciate your link to Arnold Fruchtenbaum’s Ariel Ministries website: Come and See | Studies and if it is alright with you would like to post it elsewhere and will give you the credit for the find. There is some great stuff there.

Please share it

There is no need to give me credit, we’re just here to share

 

[Hol]

Yes, indeed @Hol. That is the first thing He must change in us. But absent God compelling a person to believe, what is it do you think that causes a person to turn from unbelief to belief?

I believe God provides every person a witness of Himself. He created eternity in our hearts.

Some of us resist God’s witness to the point of becoming His enemy. Romans 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

When God calls us over and over, at one point we believers finally listened. For many it’s at a low point. In my case it was at the highest point in my career.

We have a moment of recognition and a choice. Do I turn towards that voice that I somehow recognize? When I did, in a moment the Holy Spirit sealed me and I knew that Jesus is who His Word says He is and that the Bible is 100% true. I wasn’t that familiar with the Bible so I needed years of searching and study before I could understand why and how it is true—not to mention that I’ve learned enough to know that I understand very little so far.

I was drawn to God naturally, not compelled. That said, no person can come to Jesus on their own volition or reasoning. He created us with a need to fill that only He can. We respond to His outstretched arm by faith.

 

[Hol]

(I bolded the word ‘sin’ to point out that it is singular. The Holy Spirit convicts the world that they don’t believe in Jesus—as each of us needed to turn from. We aren’t talking behavior issues. We are turning from doubting God to placing our trust in His love shown in Jesus.)

@Tall Timbers can you tell me why I could not unbold this paragraph? It was so weird, I tried several times. It would look okay on the draft, but when I posted it was still bold text

The bold text started when I pasted in the Bible verses. I was able to unbold all of that, but the one paragraph…

 

[Amethyst]

Acts 17:24-31

Act 17:24 The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man,


Act 17:25 nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything.


Act 17:26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,


Act 17:27 that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,


Act 17:28 for “‘In him we live and move and have our being’; as even some of your own poets have said, “‘For we are indeed his offspring.’


Act 17:29 Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man.


Act 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,


Act 17:31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”
_______

*I don’t believe this portion of scripture would be in there if God would just going to pick and choose who he wanted to believe in Him and who he wanted to reject Him.

 

[Waiting]

Please share it

There is no need to give me credit, we’re just here to share

Thank you

 

[dwb]

Thankfully I’ve been taught a very high view of out triune God’s worship-worthy three Persons who are co-equal with our Father as in charge.

I grew up believing the Trinity was like the Olympic medal stand. God was on top as the gold medal, Jesus was below as the silver medal, and the Holy Spirit was the distant third as the bronze medal. Not until I made my own deep dive into the scriptures did I find the truth. Most churches have this doctrine, whether meaning to or not, that's how it seems to people who don't know for themselves.

 

[Tall Timbers]

@Tall Timbers can you tell me why I could not unbold this paragraph? It was so weird, I tried several times. It would look okay on the draft, but when I posted it was still bold text

The bold text started when I pasted in the Bible verses. I was able to unbold all of that, but the one paragraph…

I looked at the BB code briefly and didn't see why that part is bolded. I may have missed a <B> command in there somewhere though. The bolded part is showing as a permanent link, maybe that's why.

 

[Almost Heaven]

Excellent@ Hol

 

[Andy C]

From Jack:

Who Does The Father Draw

Question: John 6:44 says, “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.” Are there people who are eternally lost because the Father has not drawn them to himself?

Answer: First of all, God doesn’t want any to be lost, but for all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). In 1 Tim. 2:3-4 Paul confirmed that God wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. Therefore the door to salvation stands open to every person for the duration of his or her lifetime.

We know this because Jesus said God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in Him would not perish but have eternal life (John 3:16). From this and other passages, it’s clear that we decide whether or not God will draw us to Him. Everyone who asks, receives (Matt. 7:7). Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved (Romans 10:13).

Romans 8:29-30 explains how the process works.

For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Knowing the end from the beginning, God knew the name of everyone who would accept the remedy He would provide for their sins before the first man was created. (He foreknew.) He made a reservation for each one of them in His Kingdom. (He predestined.) At some point in their lives He calls them and He keeps calling until they respond. (He called.) When they respond, and they all do, He applies His blood as payment in full for their sins rendering them clean. ( He Justified.) At the Rapture / Resurrection He will give them glorified bodies to dwell in His presence for eternity. (He Glorified.)

In John 6:44, Jesus was referring to the fact that the Father only calls those He already knows will come, having seen them do so. He doesn’t call any who won’t come (John 6:37) and He doesn’t lose any who have come (John 6:39).

Who Does The Father Draw? – Grace thru faith

gracethrufaith.com

 

[Waiting]

From Jack:

Who Does The Father Draw

Question: John 6:44 says, “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.” Are there people who are eternally lost because the Father has not drawn them to himself?

Answer: First of all, God doesn’t want any to be lost, but for all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). In 1 Tim. 2:3-4 Paul confirmed that God wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. Therefore the door to salvation stands open to every person for the duration of his or her lifetime.

We know this because Jesus said God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in Him would not perish but have eternal life (John 3:16). From this and other passages, it’s clear that we decide whether or not God will draw us to Him. Everyone who asks, receives (Matt. 7:7). Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved (Romans 10:13).

Romans 8:29-30 explains how the process works.

For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Knowing the end from the beginning, God knew the name of everyone who would accept the remedy He would provide for their sins before the first man was created. (He foreknew.) He made a reservation for each one of them in His Kingdom. (He predestined.) At some point in their lives He calls them and He keeps calling until they respond. (He called.) When they respond, and they all do, He applies His blood as payment in full for their sins rendering them clean. ( He Justified.) At the Rapture / Resurrection He will give them glorified bodies to dwell in His presence for eternity. (He Glorified.)

In John 6:44, Jesus was referring to the fact that the Father only calls those He already knows will come, having seen them do so. He doesn’t call any who won’t come (John 6:37) and He doesn’t lose any who have come (John 6:39).

Who Does The Father Draw? – Grace thru faith

gracethrufaith.com

Alrighty,

From the link I have some questions to ask, if I may.

In 1 Tim. 2:3-4 Paul confirmed that God wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. Therefore the door to salvation stands open to every person for the duration of his or her lifetime.

If the door to salvation stand open for a lifetime, are we to conclude that the offer is made to all people?

From this and other passages, it’s clear that we decide whether or not God will draw us to Him. Everyone who asks, receives (Matt. 7:7). Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved (Romans 10:13).

Then this is a definite vote in the direction of free will, is it not? But I am confused with the statement that "we decide whether or not God will draw us to Him" Is this because once we have our faith in Jesus and His shed blood, then God will draw us? Sorry but the wording has me confused.

Romans 8:29-30 explains how the process works.

For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Now, here we see it is not free will. It says "for those God foreknew" ...... so He did not know everyone? "

Knowing the end from the beginning, God knew the name of everyone who would accept the remedy

Alright, " God knew the name of everyone who would accept the remedy so He knew who would accept? He knew not all would accept? Then there still is free will involved?

He would provide for their sins before the first man was created. (He foreknew.) He made a reservation for each one of them in His Kingdom. (He predestined.)

So, is it correct He predestined some, with a surety of their afterlife?

In John 6:44, Jesus was referring to the fact that the Father only calls those He already knows will come,

So God only calls those He Himself is sure will come?

having seen them do so. He doesn’t call any who won’t come (John 6:37)

The others He just leaves alone?

and He doesn’t lose any who have come (John 6:39).

And just what may sound like an odd question.... How do I know I have been called and that it was not my own church teachings plus others that got me here, if I am here?

Last. Is there any reason not to enlarge the font as I am typing things? to like 18 ? If it make a problem I wont. Thanks!

 

[Mary Cole]

Alrighty,

From the link I have some questions to ask, if I may.


If the door to salvation stand open for a lifetime, are we to conclude that the offer is made to all people?



Then this is a definite vote in the direction of free will, is it not? But I am confused with the statement that "we decide whether or not God will draw us to Him" Is this because once we have our faith in Jesus and His shed blood, then God will draw us? Sorry but the wording has me confused.



Now, here we see it is not free will. It says "for those God foreknew" ...... so He did not know everyone? "



Alright, " God knew the name of everyone who would accept the remedy so He knew who would accept? He knew not all would accept? Then there still is free will involved?



So, is it correct He predestined some, with a surety of their afterlife?



So God only calls those He Himself is sure will come?



The others He just leaves alone?



And just what may sound like an odd question.... How do I know I have been called and that it was not my own church teachings plus others that got me here, if I am here?

Last. Is there any reason not to enlarge the font as I am typing things? to like 18 ? If it make a problem I wont. Thanks!

He foreknew everyone who would accept Him. He did not predestine to save some and predestine some for the lake of fire. What he did predestine was that everyone who accepts Him would be conformed to the likeness of His Son.

 

[Andiamo]

Is there any reason not to enlarge the font as I am typing things? to like 18 ? If it make a problem I wont. Thanks!

Hi…No reason not to at all…matter of fact some of us have often typed posts in the past with very large font for a member with poor vision.

 

[mattfivefour]

Alrighty,

From the link I have some questions to ask, if I may.


If the door to salvation stand open for a lifetime, are we to conclude that the offer is made to all people?

Yes. "For God so loved the world..."
“Whosoever will, may come." Just a couple of examples.

Then this is a definite vote in the direction of free will, is it not? But I am confused with the statement that "we decide whether or not God will draw us to Him" Is this because once we have our faith in Jesus and His shed blood, then God will draw us? Sorry but the wording has me confused.

Yes, this does mean we do have free will. As to the idea "we decide whether or not God will draw us to Him", it is poorly expressed. (In fact, so poorly that I'm not sure if I can agree with it.) A better way to state the point might be: God's effectual drawing of a person is dependent upon whether there exists in that person a willingness to consider God. And that willingness --that openness to God-- comes from us, not Him.

Now, here we see it is not free will. It says "for those God foreknew" ...... so He did not know everyone? "

Respectfully, you are misreading the verse. The foreknowledge of God referred to here is only in regard to whether a specific person will ever accept His offer of salvation. It does not mean that God only foreknows some people: He foreknows everyone's existence and, therefore, He knows who will accept salvation.

Alright, " God knew the name of everyone who would accept the remedy so He knew who would accept? He knew not all would accept? Then there still is free will involved?

Absolutely! You've got it.

So, is it correct He predestined some, with a surety of their afterlife?

Yes, but only in this sense-- that He ensures that none of those whom He foreknew would be willing to be saved would be lost. In other words, He made sure that each willing person would be guaranteed an eternity in Heaven and, as Mary Cole correctly stated above, He predestined them to be conformed to the image of His Son.

So God only calls those He Himself is sure will come?


The others He just leaves alone?

I don't think John 6:37 (or anywhere else in Scripture) necessarily teaches your first conclusion. Or your second. As I responded earlier, I believe Scripture reveals God offers salvation to ALL people. But, for the reasons I have already given, He cannot predestine for Heaven those whom He knows will never accept salvation. (Remember: God's knowledge is 100% absolutely perfect. There is no guesswork with Him. What He knows is irrefutably true, without any possibility of error.)

And just what may sound like an odd question.... How do I know I have been called and that it was not my own church teachings plus others that got me here, if I am here?

If you have felt a draw in your heart and have desired to be saved, you ARE called. Whether God uses your church's (or any organization's) teachings or a tract or something from your Bible or a thought from a movie or song or book or something on social media or an idea that just comes into your head (there are innumerable ways in which God draws someone), regardless of how you came to the point where you decided to ask Christ to save you, you are saved. The means of the calling to salvation is irrelevant. All that matters is that you came to Christ.

I pray this helps. If you have further questions, please ask them here ... or reach out to me via direct message.

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As to your final question regarding font size, we would prefer that a member stick to the default typeface and font size. However, we realize that due to vision issues some members may need to use a larger size font. In such cases it is perfectly acceptable to routinely use a larger font size. And when writing to an individual member with vision issues, we encourage the use of a larger size in order to help facilitate communication.

 

[Waiting]

He foreknew everyone who would accept Him. He did not predestine to save some and predestine some for the lake of fire. What he did predestine was that everyone who accepts Him would be conformed to the likeness of His Son.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

For some reason every time I see that "P" word I cringe and sign remembering all the debates and then if I see something that is not clear to me
I kind of hold my breath.

Thank you again and if your avatar pic is indicative of you being in service.... I humbly thank you for your service.