Here is another question to consider. We don't know the number of people who died in Noah's flood, but it had to be a vast number. Men, women, and children. Do you think, of all those that died in the flood, any were believers, of God?
Quantrill
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Ecclesiastes 4:2
- Thread starter Quantrill
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Here is another question to consider. We don't know the number of people who died in Noah's flood, but it had to be a vast number. Men, women, and children. Do you think, of all those that died in the flood, any were believers, of God?
Quantrill
Yes, speculation runs from hundreds of thousands to many millions.
I think they were believers of God, but not the way we mean it when we say that.
My guess would be that they were like the people in Psalms 2.
Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together,
against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
They didn't want to worship the One True God, but rather themselves.
And they didn't listen to Noah, who preached to them for 120 years.
Not a one of them joined Noah in the ark to be saved from the coming judgment.
@Quantrill
I don't mind you questioning me, and I love to search the Bible for answers, but I'd like to hear your own answers as well.
Or any other comment on what you think of my answers.
I don't mind you questioning me, and I love to search the Bible for answers, but I'd like to hear your own answers as well.
Or any other comment on what you think of my answers.
Hol
Well-known
Any who believe in Jesus have responded to our Heavenly Father's call to all. God does not predetermine any to reject His revelation.
There are many who line up behind Cain/Judas, who simply prefer hatred/rebellion. No amount of revelation appeals to them, but God graciously appeals to ALL, and even some of His enemies turn to His love.
Hol
Well-known
Noah preached God's coming judgement for 120-yrs. Had anyone believed him they would have honored Noah's faith in God and would have been rescued.
What we see are a mass of people who were either unbelievers or some who did know that God is real and chose to rebel in Him (similar to the following rebellion Babel episode).
Hol
Well-known
Maybe you want to pin the fate of unbelievers on God, but your logic does not allow it so you pick on naive Christians?
I personally don't believe any believers died in Noah's flood. Which itself is hard to grasp considering the amount of people that did. But, when God determined to destroy man from off the earth, (Gen. 6:7), He then said of Noah, (Gen. 6:8-9), "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD....Noah was a just man...and Noah walked with God." And when it came time to enter the Ark, God said, "...Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation." (Gen.7:1)
And, we are not even told for sure that the rest of his family were believers, though it's most likely that most were, if not all. But Noah is certainly singled out as the one who has found grace and seen as righteous before God in his generation. And his family benefited from that.
In that genealogical Godly line of Seth, (Gen. 5:6-32), we see another who walked with God, Enoch. (Gen. 5:21-24) And Enoch was raptured away, avoiding the future flood. Still in that Godly line, Enoch had a son, Methuselah. (Gen. 5:22) Methuselah lived to be 969 years old. (Gen. 5:27)
It has been shown, going through the genealogical record of (Gen. 5), that Methuselah died the same year of the flood. For the math, see (studythechurch.com Article: Did Methuselah Die In The Flood.)
Some say Methuselah died in the Flood. But I don't think so. Seeing that God provides a picture of deliverance for His people in the coming flood, first through the rapture of Enoch, then in Noah and his family, it only makes sense to me that Methuselah died before the flood, though the same exact year as the flood. All a picture of deliverance of His people from the flood.
Thus I don't believe any believer died in the flood. But such a statement would have to cover the infants who died in flood also. Which certainly is determined by ones view of infants and salvation, and/or election. My opinion.
Quantrill
I agree with what you say. And I am not saying God predetermines any to reject Him. But I believe they reject Him for who they are. And He knows who are His and who are not.
Yes, God appeals to all, and we witness to all. For He doesn't tell us who is who. And we come to Christ at different times and through different circumstances. And many reject Christ at first only later to turn to Him. My point is, I believe God always knew the individual was his even when he denied Him.
In other words, the individual was always God's, even though he didn't know it, or even denied it. He would know He was God's when he placed faith in Christ and was born-again. My opinion.
Quantrill
I don't quite understand your statement. "but your logic does not allow it" I'm not trying to pin anything on God.
I am certainly not trying to pick on anyone. If what I have said troubles you, you don't have to believe it. Just consider it food for thought.
Trying to reconcile man's responsibility and God's omniscience in Scripture takes time. My opinion.
Quantrill
I think the link provides great information relative to this thread
How was the flood in the time of Noah just? | GotQuestions.org
How was the flood in the time of Noah just? Why did God kill all the people in the world with a flood and only save Noah and his family?
www.gotquestions.org
I agree.
Methuselah
The Flood of Noah did not come as a surprise. It had been preached on for four generations. But something strange happened when Enoch was 65, from which time “he walked with God.” Enoch was given a prophecy that as long as his son was alive, the judgment of the flood would be withheld; but as soon as he died, the flood would be sent forth.Enoch named his son to reflect this prophecy. The name Methuselah comes from two roots: muth, a root that means “death”[5] ; and from shalach, which means “to bring,” or “to send forth.” Thus, the name Methuselah signifies, “his death shall bring.”[6]
And, indeed, in the year that Methuselah died, the flood came. Methuselah was 187 when he had Lamech, and lived 782 years more. Lamech had Noah when he was 182.[7] The Flood came in Noah’s 600th year.[8] 187 + 182 + 600 = 969, Methuselah’s age when he died.[9]
It is interesting that Methuselah’s life was, in effect, a symbol of God’s mercy in forestalling the coming judgment of the flood. It is therefore fitting that his lifetime is the oldest in the Bible, symbolizing the extreme extensiveness of God’s mercy.
Meanings Of The Names In Genesis 5 | Koinonia House
Since the ten Hebrew names are proper names, they are not translated but only transliterated to approximate the way they were pronounced. The meaning of proper names can be a difficult pursuit since direct translations are not readily available. Many study aids, such as conventional lexicons...
Hol
Well-known
I apologize Quantrill, I didn't understand that you are exploring a deep question and assumed your questions were leading towards the view that each individual has a predetermined outcome.
God knows what we will choose and it is going to take most of my lifetime to understand how to reconcile my free will with our omniscience God.
Thanks for your gracious response!
That's no problem.
I often use (John 6:44) and (John 6:37) to help. Jesus said "No man can come to me except the Father...draw him...." And He says "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."
So, we can be sure that all that the Father gives will come to Jesus.
We can be equally sure that any that come to Jesus will not be cast out.
Your quite welcome.
Quantrill
I agree.
Methuselah
The Flood of Noah did not come as a surprise. It had been preached on for four generations. But something strange happened when Enoch was 65, from which time “he walked with God.” Enoch was given a prophecy that as long as his son was alive, the judgment of the flood would be withheld; but as soon as he died, the flood would be sent forth.
Enoch named his son to reflect this prophecy. The name Methuselah comes from two roots: muth, a root that means “death”[5] ; and from shalach, which means “to bring,” or “to send forth.” Thus, the name Methuselah signifies, “his death shall bring.”[6]
And, indeed, in the year that Methuselah died, the flood came. Methuselah was 187 when he had Lamech, and lived 782 years more. Lamech had Noah when he was 182.[7] The Flood came in Noah’s 600th year.[8] 187 + 182 + 600 = 969, Methuselah’s age when he died.[9]
It is interesting that Methuselah’s life was, in effect, a symbol of God’s mercy in forestalling the coming judgment of the flood. It is therefore fitting that his lifetime is the oldest in the Bible, symbolizing the extreme extensiveness of God’s mercy.
Meanings Of The Names In Genesis 5 | Koinonia House
Since the ten Hebrew names are proper names, they are not translated but only transliterated to approximate the way they were pronounced. The meaning of proper names can be a difficult pursuit since direct translations are not readily available. Many study aids, such as conventional lexicons...www.khouse.org
That is interesting. And proof, to me, that Methuselah died prior to the flood.
I agree his life of 969 years symbolizes Gods mercy.
And perhaps these experiences surrounding the Flood could point to the next great judgement upon the earth, the Tribulation. As with Enoch, the Church is raptured out before the Tribulation. And as with Noah and his family, Israel is brought through the Tribulation.
Quantrill
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