Ecclesiastes 4:2

[Andiamo]

From Guzik’s “Enduring Word” commentary on Chapter 7. Would God tell us not to be overly righteous? Would God have us heed Solomon’s ideas of his own morality?

Do not be overly righteous, nor be overly wise… do not be overly wicked, nor be foolish: In light of the apparent vanity of life, Solomon here recommended a balanced approach to living. Be righteous, but not too much; be wise, but not too much; be wicked, but not too much; be foolish, but not too much.

i. “Righteousness does not always pay. Wickedness sometimes does. Therefore morality is to be a thing of calculation.” (Morgan)

ii. This is a common approach to life, thinking that everything is good in moderation. This has some truth to it but does not define a wise or good life. We should remember that both Jesus and Paul (as well as many others) were not considered balanced individuals in their day. Their understanding of eternity and accountability made them – in the view of many – unbalanced.

https://enduringword.com/#commentary

 

[Tall Timbers]

Of course they don't have to respond. But Matthew6:33 did respond, and that incorrectly.

He responded as he chose to respond. He may have addressed some content and not other content, by his own choice.

 

[Amethyst]

Scripture records all kinds of advice that Job's friends gave to him when they should have kept their mouth shut because their so-called knowledge was not actual wisdom from God towards Job's situation.

Job 42:7
After the Lord had spoken these words to Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite: “My anger burns against you and against your two friends, for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has.

 

[Hol]

the terms 'the living' and 'the dead' in Scripture can describe and divide the whole human race as of God or not of God.

May I ask if you hold a theology similar to the Calvinist's view of determinism (some people are 'elect' to hell)?

 

[Andiamo]

'how about the living that are not yet born'? Post #(11) Which you haven't answered.

What are you getting at? Do you believe that we all existed before we were born?

 

[Quantrill]

What are you getting at? Do you believe that we all existed before we were born?

I believe that God knew who were His, who were of Him, before we were even born.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

May I ask if you hold a theology similar to the Calvinist's view of determinism (some people are 'elect' to hell)?

It is not a question of God electing some to hell. Those who are not of God, will go to hell. God is concerned with those who are 'of Him'.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

He responded as he chose to respond. He may have addressed some content and not other content, by his own choice.

Yes, and I responded that he was in error. So?

Quantrill

 

[1LoverofGod]

All scripture were inspired by God for his prophets to write but not necessarily means the words are all from God.
Just as in the Psalms and Lamentations are some songs and prayers but not necessarily God's own words.


For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope
Romans 15:4

 

[1LoverofGod]

Yes, and I responded that he was in error. So?

Quantrill

Please demonstrate respect as Jesus taught us to treat others as we want to be treated. Your comments are appreciated but we all need to remember who we are as imitators of our exemplar Jesus.

 

[Andiamo]

I have always loved Ecclesiastes because he is “thinking out loud.”
I believe it is the same as when people would walk up to Jesus and ask Him questions. People ask God questions. He answers them. People think out loud before God. He leads them to the conclusion that He wants them to learn.

 

[Andiamo]

Please demonstrate respect as Jesus taught us to treat others as we want to be treated. Your comments are appreciated but we all need to remember who we are as imitators of our exemplar Jesus.

I was about to say myself Quantrill….you seem pretty cranky on this forum sometimes. I know that you have been feeling heavy about the state of our nation. But I wonder if there is anything else weighing you down. You can always start a prayer request in the prayer forum. You don’t even have to say what it is, but it might help to get it off your chest.

 

[Matthew6:33]

Divine inspiration involves both the Divine and the human. What Solomon wrote is what God wanted him to write. They are God's thoughts. What is said, in the book of (Ecclesiastes), that is not God's thoughts?

Everything written in (Ecc. 1:12-18) are God's thoughts.

And no, my question to you was, 'how about the living that are not yet born'? Post #(11) Which you haven't answered.

Quantrill

Yes, Solomon wrote what God wanted him to write within the context of the book... Why would God need to 'set His mind to explore wisdom?'

I don't see fruit in replying to a question where the foundational context is being questioned and not understood (posts #4, #8 and verses below).

Ecclesiastes 1:12-18 NASB95 — I, the Preacher, have been king over Israel in Jerusalem. And I set my mind to seek and explore by wisdom concerning all that has been done under heaven. It is a grievous task which God has given to the sons of men to be afflicted with. I have seen all the works which have been done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and striving after wind. What is crooked cannot be straightened and what is lacking cannot be counted. I said to myself, “Behold, I have magnified and increased wisdom more than all who were over Jerusalem before me; and my mind has observed a wealth of wisdom and knowledge.” And I set my mind to know wisdom and to know madness and folly; I realized that this also is striving after wind. Because in much wisdom there is much grief, and increasing knowledge results in increasing pain.

Ecc 1:12-18 clearly shows the context. What more is there to discuss?

 

[1LoverofGod]

I was about to say myself Quantrill….you seem pretty cranky on this forum sometimes. I know that you have been feeling heavy about the state of our nation. But I wonder if there is anything else weighing you down. You can always start a prayer request in the prayer forum. You don’t even have to say what it is, but it might help to get it off your chest.

It's a challenge sometimes to follow admonition to bear with one another as we are of one body in Christ, but if we fall short in this we need to pray about it and do our best to continue to show love for one another because it's a command of Jesus and He said, "if you love me, you will keep my commands".
It's a constant work we all need to do to continue to bear with one another and love one another in spite of differences.
We know even the apostles had disagreements but Jesus kept teaching them to love one another as He loves us.

 

[Hol]

It is not a question of God electing some to hell. Those who are not of God, will go to hell. God is concerned with those who are 'of Him'.

Quantrill

What do you make of this verse?
"Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink." John 7:37

Isn't it true that anyone is able to respond to Jesus?

 

[mattfivefour]

Here again:

Is the book of (Ecclesiastes) inspired by God?

The mental state of Solomon at the time was exactly what God wanted to produce; what He wanted written.

Are the words in (Ecclesiastes) the Word of God? Or not?

Solomon is not demonstrating 'flawed human thinking'. He is demonstrating God's view of fallen man under the sun. Solomon is one who has come to his senses in his old age. And God is using him to declare the truth. And who could declare it better than one who had the ability to enjoy every pleasure under the sun.

Solomon is not producing human thinking, unless you believe (Ecclesiastes) is not inspired by God. If it is 'earthly thinking' as you say, then it is not inspired by God.

Everything Solomon says in (Ecclesiastes) is truth. God's truth.

Thus, (Ecc. 4:2) is truth. God's truth. There is plenty in (Ecclesiastes) we can search and dig for better understanding of God.

You have, on the other hand, displayed the ability to discard anything in (Ecclesiastes), on the basis that it is 'human and earthly thinking'.

As I have said, 'a dangerous position'.

Quantrill

Not at all. I agree completely that the Book of Ecclesiastes is the inspired Word of God. So, clearly you have misunderstood what I have said.

Let me try again.

The point I have been trying to make since the very beginning is that you cannot necessarily take a verse out of the book of Ecclesiastes and use it as a godly truth. Yes, every word in the book is inspired by God, but not every word is God's truth: some are God giving us a clear view of flawed human thinking. But that is quite different than God teaching us some spiritual truth. Let me try and explain what I mean by giving an example out of this book. One verse says "Do not be overly righteous, nor be overly wise." (Ecclesiastes 7:16) Is God telling us we should not be overly righteous? Is God saying we should not be overly wise? In view of the rest of the Bible, God is certainly not saying that. No, in this verse God is showing us a flawed conclusion of human thinking, not God telling us not to be too righteous or too wise. Now, do you see what I mean? To believe that the words in Ecclesiastes 7:16 are God's words to us would cause us to strive to not be too righteous or too wise-- the very opposite of what God would have us do.

 

[Kaatje]

I believe that God knew who were His, who were of Him, before we were even born.

Quantrill

This is correct

It is not a question of God electing some to hell. Those who are not of God, will go to hell. God is concerned with those who are 'of Him'.

Quantrill

If you mean to say that God is only concerned with those that are "of Him", you are wrong.

Read John 3:16
For‭ God‭ so‭ loved‭‭ the world‭, that‭ he gave‭‭ his‭ only begotten‭ Son‭,
that‭ whosoever‭ believeth‭‭ in‭ him‭ should‭‭ not‭ perish‭‭, but‭ have‭‭ everlasting‭ life‭.‭

God is concerned about every living soul, and He wants none to perish.
But true love gives a choice, and God foreknew who would answer His love.

This may seem a paradox, but it is not.

For my thoughts‭ ‭are‭ not your thoughts‭, neither ‭are‭ your ways‭ my ways‭, saith‭ the LORD‭.‭
‭For ‭as‭ the heavens‭ are higher‭‭ than the earth‭, so are my ways‭ higher‭‭ than your ways‭,
and my thoughts‭ than your thoughts‭.
(Isa. 55:8,9)

 

[Quantrill]

What do you make of this verse?
"Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink." John 7:37

Isn't it true that anyone is able to respond to Jesus?

Of course the offer is given to all. And it's a legitimate offer because Christ died for all.

And the offer now centers on the Person of Jesus Christ. "Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?" (Matt. 16:15) And Peter voiced the correct answer, the correct belief. "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." (Matt. 16:16) But note Christ's reply. " flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

In other words Peter could only believe what he did because the Father revealed it to him. Which is in harmony with other Scripture also. (John 1:12-13) "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

My point is this. Though the offer is to all legitimately, not all are of God. And those who believe are those who the Father reveals it to them. See also (Eph. 2:8)

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

This is correct


If you mean to say that God is only concerned with those that are "of Him", you are wrong.

Read John 3:16
For‭ God‭ so‭ loved‭‭ the world‭, that‭ he gave‭‭ his‭ only begotten‭ Son‭,
that‭ whosoever‭ believeth‭‭ in‭ him‭ should‭‭ not‭ perish‭‭, but‭ have‭‭ everlasting‭ life‭.‭

God is concerned about every living soul, and He wants none to perish.
But true love gives a choice, and God foreknew who would answer His love.

This may seem a paradox, but it is not.

For my thoughts‭ ‭are‭ not your thoughts‭, neither ‭are‭ your ways‭ my ways‭, saith‭ the LORD‭.‭
‭For ‭as‭ the heavens‭ are higher‭‭ than the earth‭, so are my ways‭ higher‭‭ than your ways‭,
and my thoughts‭ than your thoughts‭.
(Isa. 55:8,9)

I will say, God may be concerned with those not of Him, but I wouldn't say in the same way He is with those 'of Him'.

I assume you believe in 'eternal punishment', 'hell', 'Lake of Fire'. Whatever it actually is, it isn't pleasant. And it is eternal.

And I am asking this just to think on. You don't need to answer. Does God at the time He sends those to the Lake of Fire, love them? (Rev. 20:11-15)

Quantrill

 

[Kaatje]

And I am asking this just to think on. You don't need to answer. Does God at the time He sends those to the Lake of Fire, love them? (Rev. 20:11-15)

That is a difficult question.
I wouldn't want to presume to know how much God loves or not loves them.
That is way beyond my finite mind.

But pondering this question, a few Bible verses came to me, that might shed some light on it.

We know how God felt about the wicked before the Flood.

And GOD‭ saw‭‭ that the wickedness‭ of man‭ ‭was‭ great‭ in the earth‭,
and ‭that‭ every imagination‭ of the thoughts‭ of his heart‭ ‭was‭ only‭ evil‭ continually‭.‭
‭And it repented‭‭ the LORD‭ that he had made‭‭ man‭ on the earth‭, and it grieved‭‭ him at‭ his heart‭.‭
(Gen. 6:5,6)

God created man for His own pleasure. He loves us so much, He even gave His own Son to die for us.

As‭ I live‭, saith‭ the Lord‭ GOD‭, I have no pleasure‭‭ in the death‭ of the wicked‭;
but that the wicked‭ turn‭‭ from his way‭ and live‭‭
(Ez. 33:11)

And lastly the parabel of the Prodigal son came to mind.
His father loved both his sons dearly, and he wanted nothing better than they loved him back.
But when the younger son wanted his inheritance (like his father was already dead to him!),
he gave his son what he desired and let him go, but kept watching and waiting for his return.

I think if the younger son wouldn't have returned, but perished far away, his father would still have loved him.

Ultimately, that is what free will is all about.
God loves us so much, he wants our answering love in return. But only if we desire so.
No one will be forced into heaven.
If we won't say: Thy will be done, He will say: your will be done.

But I think it will grieve Him, because he still loves them.

Hope that helps you, for an answer?