Charlie Kirk shot at Utah Valley University.

[1LoverofGod]

MUST READ
FROM THE DESK OF CHARLIE KIRK

Dear Mr. Prime Minister,

One of my greatest joys as a Christian is advocating for Israel and forming alliances with Jews in the fight to protect Judeo-Christian civilization. Most recently, I am proud to have taken over Ambassador Huckabee’s show on TBN where we continually support Israel and the Jewish people. As Muhammadism spreads into Western societies, it’s critical that Jews and Christians stay united in the effort to contain and roll back radical Islam and Sharia law.

I regret to report that anti-Israel and anti-Semitic trends are at record levels on social media. These negative sentiments then flow downstream into college campuses and even seep into the conservative MAGA community.

My team and I have spent months analyzing these trends and debating ideas that could help you and your country push back against these disturbing developments. Anti-Israel sentiment can undermine American support for Israel. The purpose of this letter is to lay out our concerns and outline potential remedies. Everything written here is from a place of deep love for Israel and the Jewish people. I think it’s important to be brutally honest with those you love. In my opinion, Israel is losing the information war and needs a “communications intervention.”

I started to compose this letter to you on Easter. I should have been focused on my family, but I was getting bombarded with messages about the Israeli army making it difficult for Christians to access church in Jerusalem on Easter. At the time, I did not see any official statements pushing back on this narrative. It was frustrating because pro-Israel surrogates like me should not be in charge of fact checking every piece of anti-Israel misinformation that pours into social media.

It wasn’t just Easter. On my recent campus tours, half the questions I get are about Israel and they’re all negative.

I often spend half my time on these campus tours defending Jews and Israel which I’m proud to do because I love Israel and love the Jewish faith. I spent endless hours with Dennis Prager over the years studying the Torah. Sometimes, it feels like I’m defending Israel in public more than your own government.

My experience on college campuses matches a recent Harvard Harris poll which reported 48% of 18-24 year old Americans support Hamas over Israel. Even in young MAGA circles, Israel is losing support. We are getting huge crowds of 4,000-5,000 students on some of my college tours. My campus visits are becoming like a rock concert atmosphere filled with conservative patriots. Yet, on these campus visits, I’m constantly confronted with:
“Israel is an apartheid state.”
“Why does Israel conduct ethnic cleansing?”
“Why is America subsidizing Israel’s genocide against the Palestinian people?”
“Is American aid helping to subsidize Israel’s free health care?”
“Israel and the Jews are running U.S. foreign policy.”
“Israel and Jews are responsible for 9/11.”
“Defending Israel is not in our U.S. national interest.”
“Why is Israel trying to drag us into a war in the Middle East?”

Above are just a sampling of the negative Israel/Jewish comments and questions I confront on college campuses. I’m accused of being a paid apologist for Israel when I defend her; however, if I don’t defend Israel strongly enough, I’m accused of being anti-semitic. I know you’ve got a 7 front war and my kvetching pales in comparison. But I’m trying to convey to you that Israel is losing support even in conservative circles. This should be a 5 alarm fire.

I’m often asked, “Why is Israel killing so many innocent civilians in Gaza?” I know Israel goes to great lengths by dropping flyers and even calling civilians to clear out of areas about to be bombed. I know Israel posts maps showing which areas should be evacuated. I know that Hamas uses civilians as human shields.

Amir Tsarfati

MUST READ FROM THE DESK OF CHARLIE KIRK Dear Mr. Prime Minister, One of my greatest joys as a Christian is advocating for Israel and forming alliances with Jews in the fight to protect Judeo-Christian civilization. Most recently, I am proud to have taken over Ambassador Huckabee’s show on TBN...

t.me

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

I just read that they are calling him a white Christian Mormon from a Republican family. The Mormon church is not Christian. They have false teachings.telegraph.com/?p=676

So was he Mormon or just from Utah and someone made the assumption?

 

[TCC]

You can have your opinion and interpret things as you wish. But Jack Hibbs is absolutely not a believer in or teacher of Lordship Salvation.
This is the kind of accusations that misleads others who dont know anything about Pastor Jack Hibbs.
As for the freedom conference, Jack has his own political movement called Real Impact.
He frames it similar to Turning Point USA.
I am not for linking arms with NAR or any false religion for any purpose, including like minded politics, and as I explained how I feel about up upthread for TPUSA, it applies to this as well.

To say Jack Hibbs teaches Lordship Salvation is wrong.
He is a solid bible teacher in a Calvary Chapel church. I have listened to his teachings for years. He is supported by solid Christians.
You are seriously mistaken

First I just want to say it is so awesome Rose that you are with us posting with all of your heart and with such zeal. We are greatly blessed with your level of care and love for God. And praise God for this level of insight, fortitude, and passion. Amen.

I'm not mistaken though. We may see how Jack goes about approaching certain aspects of the faith differently though. I was in Lordship Salvation for 20 years. It is true, I could read too much into things based on my biblical upbringing. Yes. In part herhaps that is the case here to a degree. And where it be, I apologize for it causing any measure of small storm. I will listen to the last video, and if time perhaps also the earlier one. If we listen to Macarthur prior to 1988, it is Free Grace. If we listen to him after 1988, it is Lordship Salvation. What is further interesting to note in that is that there are even some later sermons even that preached like free Grace again after 1988...depending on the passge. My sincere conclusion in that is that it would seem Jmac was wanting to cover all the bases in case one or the other is more true.

In that 35 minute video the presenter does give "his takes." And admittedly those takes are his own views. Some seemed more fitting than others. But they were not just clips. They were a linear presenation of what Jack was teaching in one sitting. I believe what might be more important than what the presenter might have gotten wrong, is just simply this: What did Jack say and describe? Having gone to Jacks church several times, there are some really great sermons. Some even leaning more toward free Grace. Some leaning more toward Lordship Salvation. Why it is not a mischarectorization for me here is Jack is a least a part-time Lordship Salvationist. In proof, I leave you 3 of his statements not taken out of context in that video. But in his own words, just what he stated. In that linear one time one place one event discussion, Jack shared his heart. Removing whatever spin the presenter puts on Jack or not, dismissing all and any of that, we are left with three key features of Lordship Salvation proper:

THIS IS LORDSHIP SALVATION PROPER
Your profession of believing in Christ will be tested. And when it is tested it will prove whether you are a man or woman who has faith in Jesus. [This is also the P in tulip]

THIS IS CALVINISTIC FRUIT INSPECTION 101
So somebody may go forwrd and raise their hand or fill out something online or read a Gideon Bible at a hotel and send a note to the Gideon bible people and say "I have come to faith in Christ." We are not really sure yet to be honest with you. We are happy you made this committment, but we all know over time, that time will tell. How does that happen? Difficulties come. But do you know what happens at the exact same time, the moment you profess faith in Christ if it's for real? We're going to know over time, and we as brothers and sisters, the church, we are going to be able to begin to detect indicator, signs, that you are truly one of us.

[I'd like to note here that issues of concern in a believers life will potentially result in church discipline...because someone is saved. Like we saw in the Corinthian church]

THIS IS LORDSHIP SALVATION
So when somebody says, I believe in Jesus" the very first things that all of us should begin to watch in your life is obedience to Christ.

. . . . .

To be fair, I think what Jack is doing in these statements is wanting believers to maximize their fruit and reward. Amen. I truly believe that is Jack's heart in this well meant. It was also well meant with Macarthur. But I have not heard Jack ever defend LS as LS. Which I find a great grace upon him. But those 3 statements above are textbook Lordship Salvation views. Of course the church should be hopeful toward a believers obedience in the body. And of course church discipline should be used if there is enough concern. But that occurs to prune the believe in Christ. If they are actually an unbeliever, under church discipline they should be uncomfortable enough not to want to stay.

The presenter in that video did not put any of those words in Jack's mouth. They were stated clearly in context and capture honestly in their context. You may not agree that these statements are Lordship Salvation statements. And you may not believe these statements are even Lordship Salvation lite. So again, for the forum's sake (I have no interest for this to be a stirring of the pot or your emotions) I would downgrade it perhaps further still.

The original comment of yours I posted in respect to an observation of Hibbs was a beuatiful sentiment from you and perhaps something like my comment might have seemed to serve the opposite point you were making...lol. Which is a bit ironic. Your sentiment was one of giving Charlie Kirk and clan reasonable sober minded grace. Amen. I believe the reason I posted what I did though was that the concerns in some Christian circles over Hibbs often is not his overt connection to politcs (although some have problems with that). Which I actually like. It was more so his connection to Che Ahn (NAR). The LS comment was just something I noticed in parts of his teaching from my attending some of his church services. So dear sister we may not come to agreement here, and that is ok. But those 3 statements from above are not just LS lingo-sh similarities. They are more than that. As for peacemaking within the forum, I suppose I could down grade my LS view to: "Leaning toward." This may not sit well with you either. But those 3 statements taken from one sitting is the fruit inspection reformed manifesto. There is no difference. I'm not imagining he said those things.

I won't keep on with this. And to me this is not accusing Jack of what he clearly says. It does demonstrate concern of his leaning in this direction though. We are likely different in one way at least-- I don't particularly see LS perhaps as anathema as most of this forum. Having seen its massive inroads into the church proper, I have also seen its lovely side. There is one. Because Christ transcends it. Please pardon the disrupt. I will respect your differences on this issue dear sister. But being it as we see what Jack says in his own words, I don't see my concerns as unfounded accusations. They are kind of just what he said. Blessings.

 

[Matthew6:33]

First I just want to say it is so awesome Rose that you are with us posting with all of your heart and with such zeal. We are greatly blessed with your level of care and love for God. And praise God for this level of insight, fortitude, and passion. Amen.

I'm not mistaken though. We may see how Jack goes about approaching certain aspects of the faith differently though. I was in Lordship Salvation for 20 years. It is true, I could read too much into things based on my biblical upbringing. Yes. In part herhaps that is the case here to a degree. And where it be, I apologize for it causing any measure of small storm. I will listen to the last video, and if time perhaps also the earlier one. If we listen to Macarthur prior to 1988, it is Free Grace. If we listen to him after 1988, it is Lordship Salvation. What is further interesting to note in that is that there are even some later sermons even that preached like free Grace again after 1988...depending on the passge. My sincere conclusion in that is that it would seem Jmac was wanting to cover all the bases in case one or the other is more true.

In that 35 minute video the presenter does give "his takes." And admittedly those takes are his own views. Some seemed more fitting than others. But they were not just clips. They were a linear presenation of what Jack was teaching in one sitting. I believe what might be more important than what the presenter might have gotten wrong, is just simply this: What did Jack say and describe? Having gone to Jacks church several times, there are some really great sermons. Some even leaning more toward free Grace. Some leaning more toward Lordship Salvation. Why it is not a mischarectorization for me here is Jack is a least a part-time Lordship Salvationist. In proof, I leave you 3 of his statements not taken out of context in that video. But in his own words, just what he stated. In that linear one time one place one event discussion, Jack shared his heart. Removing whatever spin the presenter puts on Jack or not, dismissing all and any of that, we are left with three key features of Lordship Salvation proper:

THIS IS LORDSHIP SALVATION PROPER
Your profession of believing in Christ will be tested. And when it is tested it will prove whether you are a man or woman who has faith in Jesus. [This is also the P in tulip]

THIS IS CALVINISTIC FRUIT INSPECTION 101
So somebody may go forwrd and raise their hand or fill out something online or read a Gideon Bible at a hotel and send a note to the Gideon bible people and say "I have come to faith in Christ." We are not really sure yet to be honest with you. We are happy you made this committment, but we all know over time, that time will tell. How does that happen? Difficulties come. But do you know what happens at the exact same time, the moment you profess faith in Christ if it's for real? We're going to know over time, and we as brothers and sisters, the church, we are going to be able to begin to detect indicator,ssigns, that you are truly one of us.

[I'd like to note here that issues of concern in a believers life will potentially result in church discipline...because someone is saved. Like we saw in the Corinthian church]

THIS IS LORDSHIP SALVATION
So when somebody says, I believe in Jesus" the very first things that all of us should begin to watch in your life is obedience to Christ.

. . . . .

To be fair, I think what Jack is doing in these statements is wanting believers to maximize their fruit and reward. Amen. I truly believe that is Jack's heart in this well meant. It was also well meant with Macarthur. But I have not heard Jack ever defend LS as LS. Which I find a great grace upon him. But those 3 statements above are textbook Lordship Salvation views. Of course the church should be hopeful toward a believers obedience in the body. And of course church discipline should be used if there is enough concern. But that occurs to prune the believe in Christ. If they are actually an unbeliever, under church discipline they should be uncomfortable enough not to want to stay.

The presenter in that video did not put any of those words in Jack's mouth. They were stated clearly in context and capture honestly in their context. You may not agree that these statements are Lordship Salvation statements. And you may not believe these statements are even Lordship Salvation lite. So again, for the forum's sake (I have no interest for this to be a stirring of the pot or your emotions) I would downgrade it perhaps further still.

The original comment of yours I posted in respect to an observation of Hibbs was a beuatiful sentiment from you and perhaps something like my comment might have seemed to serve the opposite point you were making...lol. Which is a bit ironic. Your sentiment was one of giving Charlie Kirk and clan reasonable sober minded grace. Amen. I believe the reason I posted what I did though was that the concerns in some Christian circles over Hibbs often is not his overt connection to politcs (although some have problems with that). Which I actually like. It was more so his connection to Che Ahn (NAR). The LS comment was just something I noticed in parts of his teaching from my attending some of his church services. So dear sister we may not come to agreement here, and that is ok. But those 3 statements from above are not just LS lingo-sh similarities. They are more than that. As for peacemaking within the forum, I suppose I could down grade my LS view to: "Leaning toward." This may not sit well with you either. But those 3 statements taken from one sitting is the fruit inspection reformed manifesto. There is no difference. I'm not imagining he said those things.

I won't keep on with this. And to me this is not accusing Jack of what he clearly says. It does demonstrate concern of his leaning in this direction though. We are likely different in one way at least-- I don't particularly see LS perhaps as anathema as most of this forum. Having seen its massive inroads into the church proper, I have also seen its lovely side. There is one. Because Christ transcends it. Please pardon the disrupt. I will respect your differences on this issue dear sister. But being it as we see what Jack says in his own words, I don't see my concerns as unfounded accusations. They are kind of just what he said. Blessings.

I can see where you are coming from with that video. I have a different take. It may sound like LS but I think he is just trying to explain evidence of faith (perhaps not well).

In other words, how do you personally know you are saved? Or, how do you know someone else is saved? Once you go through trials and your faith is tested but you/they keep believing, that is your evidence.

It is not really important if we know we are saved or if someone else is saved just that we truly believe at the time of our death (only God really knows that).

I don't think he is saying that when you believe you are not saved "unless you make Jesus your Lord."

Semantics.

 

[1LoverofGod]

First I just want to say it is so awesome Rose that you are with us posting with all of your heart and with such zeal. We are greatly blessed with your level of care and love for God. And praise God for this level of insight, fortitude, and passion. Amen.

I'm not mistaken though. We may see how Jack goes about approaching certain aspects of the faith differently though. I was in Lordship Salvation for 20 years. It is true, I could read too much into things based on my biblical upbringing. Yes. In part herhaps that is the case here to a degree. And where it be, I apologize for it causing any measure of small storm. I will listen to the last video, and if time perhaps also the earlier one. If we listen to Macarthur prior to 1988, it is Free Grace. If we listen to him after 1988, it is Lordship Salvation. What is further interesting to note in that is that there are even some later sermons even that preached like free Grace again after 1988...depending on the passge. My sincere conclusion in that is that it would seem Jmac was wanting to cover all the bases in case one or the other is more true.

In that 35 minute video the presenter does give "his takes." And admittedly those takes are his own views. Some seemed more fitting than others. But they were not just clips. They were a linear presenation of what Jack was teaching in one sitting. I believe what might be more important than what the presenter might have gotten wrong, is just simply this: What did Jack say and describe? Having gone to Jacks church several times, there are some really great sermons. Some even leaning more toward free Grace. Some leaning more toward Lordship Salvation. Why it is not a mischarectorization for me here is Jack is a least a part-time Lordship Salvationist. In proof, I leave you 3 of his statements not taken out of context in that video. But in his own words, just what he stated. In that linear one time one place one event discussion, Jack shared his heart. Removing whatever spin the presenter puts on Jack or not, dismissing all and any of that, we are left with three key features of Lordship Salvation proper:

THIS IS LORDSHIP SALVATION PROPER
Your profession of believing in Christ will be tested. And when it is tested it will prove whether you are a man or woman who has faith in Jesus. [This is also the P in tulip]

THIS IS CALVINISTIC FRUIT INSPECTION 101
So somebody may go forwrd and raise their hand or fill out something online or read a Gideon Bible at a hotel and send a note to the Gideon bible people and say "I have come to faith in Christ." We are not really sure yet to be honest with you. We are happy you made this committment, but we all know over time, that time will tell. How does that happen? Difficulties come. But do you know what happens at the exact same time, the moment you profess faith in Christ if it's for real? We're going to know over time, and we as brothers and sisters, the church, we are going to be able to begin to detect indicator,ssigns, that you are truly one of us.

[I'd like to note here that issues of concern in a believers life will potentially result in church discipline...because someone is saved. Like we saw in the Corinthian church]

THIS IS LORDSHIP SALVATION
So when somebody says, I believe in Jesus" the very first things that all of us should begin to watch in your life is obedience to Christ.

. . . . .

To be fair, I think what Jack is doing in these statements is wanting believers to maximize their fruit and reward. Amen. I truly believe that is Jack's heart in this well meant. It was also well meant with Macarthur. But I have not heard Jack ever defend LS as LS. Which I find a great grace upon him. But those 3 statements above are textbook Lordship Salvation views. Of course the church should be hopeful toward a believers obedience in the body. And of course church discipline should be used if there is enough concern. But that occurs to prune the believe in Christ. If they are actually an unbeliever, under church discipline they should be uncomfortable enough not to want to stay.

The presenter in that video did not put any of those words in Jack's mouth. They were stated clearly in context and capture honestly in their context. You may not agree that these statements are Lordship Salvation statements. And you may not believe these statements are even Lordship Salvation lite. So again, for the forum's sake (I have no interest for this to be a stirring of the pot or your emotions) I would downgrade it perhaps further still.

The original comment of yours I posted in respect to an observation of Hibbs was a beuatiful sentiment from you and perhaps something like my comment might have seemed to serve the opposite point you were making...lol. Which is a bit ironic. Your sentiment was one of giving Charlie Kirk and clan reasonable sober minded grace. Amen. I believe the reason I posted what I did though was that the concerns in some Christian circles over Hibbs often is not his overt connection to politcs (although some have problems with that). Which I actually like. It was more so his connection to Che Ahn (NAR). The LS comment was just something I noticed in parts of his teaching from my attending some of his church services. So dear sister we may not come to agreement here, and that is ok. But those 3 statements from above are not just LS lingo-sh similarities. They are more than that. As for peacemaking within the forum, I suppose I could down grade my LS view to: "Leaning toward." This may not sit well with you either. But those 3 statements taken from one sitting is the fruit inspection reformed manifesto. There is no difference. I'm not imagining he said those things.

I won't keep on with this. And to me this is not accusing Jack of what he clearly says. It does demonstrate concern of his leaning in this direction though. We are likely different in one way at least-- I don't particularly see LS perhaps as anathema as most of this forum. Having seen its massive inroads into the church proper, I have also seen its lovely side. There is one. Because Christ transcends it. Please pardon the disrupt. I will respect your differences on this issue dear sister. But being it as we see what Jack says in his own words, I don't see my concerns as unfounded accusations. They are kind of just what he said. Blessings.

Brother I honestly feel you are mistaken in your assessment of Jack Hibbs.
I would feel led to make a defense for any brother or sister wrongly being accused, I would defend even you when nevessary. Jesus said "there is no greater love than laying down one's life for a brother". So, why would it be wrong to make a defense for a brother?
You have visited Jacks church a few times. I haven't sat in his church in person a few times but I have listened to him regularly on live streams every Sunday and Wednesday for 5 years. His teachings have not changed.
I haven't responded to you to be unkind to you nor to embarrass you. I have done so because you are mistaken and it concerns me of the impact your incorrect description of Pastor Jack may influence others to have a wrong impression of him not knowing what he really teaches.
This isnt just about Jack having an opinion on eschatology. This is gospel.
The gospel of salvation cannot be an opinion.
Scripture says if anyone teaches a different gospel let him be accursed. This is why I find this serious to defend
Its not improbable for someone to have a wrong interpretation of what is heard.
You have expressed your different views on theology here than some of us have, and that's fine. I dont see you any less a brother because you are a believer in the saving blood of Jesus.
I have only responded in regards to this matter because its not just a theology standpoint but you have used the name of a brother and have publicly made a wrong statement about him. Like I said, I would speak up in defense of any brother this way, including you.
My doing this doesnt make me being mean to you. I've tried to be direct in response but never to attack you or embarrass you.
I dont agree with a few views you have but I dont make an effort to correct you, but I felt it necessary to say something when you mention names and say something that isnt correct.
Its not personal. I would do the same with anyone for anyone. Im not a mean spirited person. I believe in doing the right thing.
Im not thinking badly of you, but you are mistaken, and I know any of us can make mistakes. When Im mistaken I should be corrected. On this, I know without a doubt where Jack Hibbs stands on salvation, just as I know where most of the members here do because of paying attention to their comments.
We are all free to express ourselves on this forum but if you notice, at times correction has had to be made, and it isnt just me making a correction.
I respect you and I love you as my brother.
I wouldn't be unkind to you, ever.
I dont think you are trying to be unkind.
You are just mistaken

 

[1LoverofGod]

In other words, how do you personally know you are saved? Or, how do you know someone else is saved? Once you go through trials and your faith

"In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ"
1 Peter 1:6-7

 

[GLC11]

Good morning friends! (Or good day, depending on where you are)

I am in the hospital recovering from surgery , so I have been reading a lot in our Forums.

First off, upward several posts, 1LoverOfGod shared a letter from Charlie to Netanyahu.

That is likely going to get some attention today from Candace and the people saying the crazy stuff about Charlie changing his views on Israel. It sounds like the letter is a true and real letter. His producer confirmed it, the NY Post did an article , but there are already people trying to spin it.

What I really want to chime in on is this other recent topic because I was so very interested.

My background in bullet points, so everyone understands where I am coming from:

- I am 56 years old and spent 52 of those years in Southern CA. Four years ago I moved to Montana.

- as a young girl, I had the seeds of salvation planted very early on from my father who was a devout attendee of John MacArthur’s church. I grew up around many MacArthur books and was gifted many more as well as his study Bible. I was taught and believed in Calvinism.

- later I married and moved from La County to South Orange County. For 8 years we attended a very legalistic, Calvinist church. The pastor is on the radio, taught classes at Masters University and hired many associate pastors who came from Masters.

-I want to try to speed this part up a little because there is a lot to say. My husband was not saved when we married, but he did attend church with me and then he suffered a full widow-maker heart attack at the age of 45, but by the grace of God, the paramedics got his heart beating and whisked him to the hospital. I was at home with our 4 kid ages 5,4,2 and 2 (twins) and got the phone call no wife ever wants to get. However, he was a true miracle! Shorty after, he became so intent on learning everything about God. He read all the Strobel books, I don’t have Enough Faith to be an Atheist by Turek and Geisler and started attending Bible courses held on weeknights at our church. I will fast forward this somewhat since all of you are already well versed on the damage that Calvinism and legalism can do, but basically, my husband felt he became saved, but then spent the next 7 years doubting because of this church. He felt so convicted by the teachings about no fruit, and evidence etc. There was a time when several families left because they all were so hurt. One mom was so upset because her 13 year old gave his life to Christ and a ministry leader said “well, we just need to see if there is fruit now”

Ugh, it was awful and painful to leave a place we called a home church for 8 years, and even now, years later, I can still stay up at night recalling hurtful conversations. There were many and it also impacted many who left.

- when we left, my husband did like a 180 and had us all start going to Rick Warren’s church! The main campus where Rick himself taught. I knew in my bones that this was all prosperity gospel and it was definitely a complete flip from where we were. We went for about 3 years, but NOT involved really. Just for the weekend message. I was homeschooling my kids through a Christian campus and had great fellowship and Bible study options. I started listening online to both Jack Hibbs and John Randall during Covid and then when they opened their churches, started to attend both of those churches off and on. I was closer to Randall’s Calvary Chapel but sometimes would drive to Chino to see Hibbs on his campus too.

-In 2020 I told my dad that I profusely disagree with Calvinism (interesting conversation). He and I just both strongly disagree on that topic, but I don’t doubt his salvation.

We are attending another Calvary Chapel in Montana and I listen to Hibbs online all the time too.

I am praying so hard now because I feel my husband is saved but also has doubts even now because of what he went through.

I know at that other forum, we could never mention MacArthur ever or …. Well, you know. I do have to say though, while I disagreed on Calvinism, I do still have some of his books and will occasionally listen to some of his messages on other topics. Like End Times (there! I said it!)

I know not every pastor is going to always be 100% correct, but I feel that since I know better about Calvinism, I can still safely benefit from some of MacArthur’s teachings. It’s not like he is Catholic or Mormon

This all said, I have a basic question for all of you.

How do we feel is the best way to explain how to know if you are saved?

One more question:
what is the best way to explain “once saved always saved”? Yet not let people feel that is a free pass to keep sinning?

Sorry for typos
I am in a dark hospital room typing on my phone. I have been up all night reading about Trump and Netanyahu and everything that took place yesterday with their announcements, still watching in shock and horror how conservatives are turning antisemitic (thank you Candace and Tucker).

Watching Catholics and Protestants fighting feverishly online right now about whose religion is correct (all spurred on by Candace once again . Saying “Charlie was converting to Catholicism and I told him he was too smart to be a Protestant”)

And I got very riveted by the discussion here. I am so pleased that everyone made nice and are discussing it civil. This is our safe family here! I am so astounded by the depth of knowledge in this community. Satan would surely love to get us fighting.

 

[GLC11]

"In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ"
1 Peter 1:6-7

Funny , I just noticed how this was posted right before mine. An answer to Matthew6:33 kind of asking the same as me

 

[Tall Timbers]

How do we feel is the best way to explain how to know if you are saved?

The Comforter (Holy Spirit in us) is my confirmation.

 

[Kem]

It's always best to include what the Bible actually says. I know there is a lot in Scripture to encourage us but it would be very wrong to leave some things out just to fit what we are determined to think.

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1 John 2:3-5

 

[GLC11]

The Comforter (Holy Spirit in us) is my confirmation.

I agree! That is what I feel.

Is it just that simple to explain?


And then I know a family member who believes he was predestined and his name is already in the Lambs book of Life. Yet openly sins and says nothing can take his name out


How do I explain to my older kids that you shouldn’t sin when a family member behaves that way.?

 

[Kem]

And then I know a family member who believes he was predestined and his name is already in the Lambs book of Life. Yet openly sins and says nothing can take his name out


How do I explain to my older kids that you shouldn’t sin when a family member behaves that way.?

You can say that only God truly knows the heart but we must not take someone else's behavior as the right thing to do when it contradicts the very Word of God, the Bible. Also we may feel that something is good and right but we know that feelings can be very deceptive and we should never trust our feelings but only what God says.

Now I am not denying that Romans 8:13 is also Scripture. The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
I'm just saying we have to include all of what Scripture says, not just the parts we like.
And before someone jumps on me with both feet, I believe that one is saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in the Lord Jesus Christ alone. Not by works at all. I am saying good works definitely do come after salvation. Matt. 5:16 and Eph. 2:10 among other verses.

 

[Tall Timbers]

I agree! That is what I feel.

Is it just that simple to explain?

It is for me. I don't know if that would be the case for everyone, but it seems like it would be during the Church age.

If a million people told me I wasn't saved it wouldn't concern me a bit. I've got confirmation in the Comforter.

 

[Kem]

In a couple of verses one could say that the Bible says:
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Acts 16:31 and
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Romans 4:24
You could say I definitely do believe and so I know I am saved.

 

[1LoverofGod]

In a couple of verses one could say that the Bible says:
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Acts 16:31 and
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Romans 4:24
You could say I definitely do believe and so I know I am saved.

This!
This is how you know if you are saved,

Believing in Jesus finished work on the cross is all that is needed to be saved and born again and be a child of God.

If we believe this, we are saved.
Jesus did what none of us could ever do.
This is why no works on our part could ever be enough to save ourselves.
What Jesus did is enough.

 

[Tall Timbers]

When I was a new Believer, I felt like a brand new person. The term born again really fits. In faith we believe through God's grace, his wonderful eternal gift to us.

I felt like a brand new person though... one day while reading parts of the Bible for the first time, when I read "and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit", I began to understand why I felt like a new person. The feeling itself isn't that important as far as it goes, but having the Comforter is real confirmation of God's promise(s).

To this day, decades later, whenever I think to thank the Holy Spirirt, I get a little choked up. I couldn't imagine living in this world without the Comforter.

 

[Hol]

what is the best way to explain “once saved always saved”? Yet not let people feel that is a free pass to keep sinning?

Yesterday while driving and listening to Christian radio I heard an excellent quote (did not catch the author).

“What is it about human arrogance that presumes we have anything to offer God in light of Christ’s blood?”

Your husband may be in the difficult process of ‘unlearning’ the works/guilt of Calvinism, so similar to R. Catholicism? The guilt trip is difficult to break free from.

 

[TCC]

I can see where you are coming from with that video. I have a different take. It may sound like LS but I think he is just trying to explain evidence of faith (perhaps not well).

In other words, how do you personally know you are saved? Or, how do you know someone else is saved? Once you go through trials and your faith is tested but you/they keep believing, that is your evidence.

It is not really important if we know we are saved or if someone else is saved just that we truly believe at the time of our death (only God really knows that).

I don't think he is saying that when you believe you are not saved "unless you make Jesus your Lord."

Semantics.

Thanks brother for the feedback. I understand what you are saying. One of the reasons I would say even if Hibbs is leaning into LS or LS lite, I would still go to his church at times is because I still kind of consider myself a Lordship Salvationist (but like a 1 pointer). What I mean by that is that I don't believe one becomes saved and has 0 evidence of that ever. I believe that if the supernatural God of creation regenerates our hearts, there is plenty of places in scripture we see this demonstrates itself in people. That is why I say a 1 pointer. In that sense, to me, it is not that I or we submit to Him as Lord. Perhaps we do or perhaps that takes time or perhaps at some point we are taken home early for not doing so. But my understanding of issue "in reality" is its not making Christ Lord, it's receiving the true Jesus as God who by so doing will effect the heart. A new creation would have "some" evidence. If that makes sense.

One of the troubling overtones of how Jack expressed himself (as a mature sober minded leader believer) is that even though we might agree that Jack is not "technically" saying "You must make Jesus Lord in your heart to be saved," he uses language that exactly mirrors what those who are in Lordship Salvation camps use. And when they use, they use it to sell the subtly. So if Jack is so super sound and a mature believer leader, why use language the way Lordship Salvationists use to seduce believers into heresy? To me, its not healthy to just ride the coattails of the LS camp, but, not really mean it.

The reason why I understand Lordship Salvation is so prevalent in churches today is its a way to get your flock to consider more or less what they are doing. It is a way for the church to make the pastor look good. And we have a lot of that today. Whenever I have been to Jack's church, they are always loving and I do sense the spirit is very much in these people's hearts. Amen. So this isn't personal to me. And I can also understand perhaps my bringing this up where Rose is focusing on how not to "witch hunt" (my term) things in the Charlie Kirk camp, because i agree with Rose in what she stated, amen. So I believe it was probably not the best timing for what I shared. And I apologize for it causing a stir. And I appreciate even here more likely what Hibbs probably means.

In some ways though because Jack is a senior pastor, he is accountable to how he comes across. And maybe he does not come across to everyone the same way, granted. The reason, back in the day, when Macarthur went after the Calvery Church camp is because they, as a dinomination, did not separate from the Jesus People movement. Which kind of later became NAR. In Jmac views, he kind of ran on the premise that if one is not willing to separate themselves from a group clearly, they should not be surprised when accountability blends them in with that group. And as much as I did not nor do now see Jmac as the new spiritual sheriff in town, in his concern over some aspects of CC, I would understand to some degree that concern.

Greg Laurie is often in ties with CC. And he clearly states a free Grace gospel. But his public mantle does make access for some not so spiritually savory types to have Greg Laurie cover. In general there just seems to be a lot of networking going on today. Thanks for taking the time to consider where I'm coming from. Blessings.

 

[TCC]

Brother I honestly feel you are mistaken in your assessment of Jack Hibbs.
I would feel led to make a defense for any brother or sister wrongly being accused, I would defend even you when nevessary. Jesus said "there is no greater love than laying down one's life for a brother". So, why would it be wrong to make a defense for a brother?
You have visited Jacks church a few times. I haven't sat in his church in person a few times but I have listened to him regularly on live streams every Sunday and Wednesday for 5 years. His teachings have not changed.
I haven't responded to you to be unkind to you nor to embarrass you. I have done so because you are mistaken and it concerns me of the impact your incorrect description of Pastor Jack may influence others to have a wrong impression of him not knowing what he really teaches.
This isnt just about Jack having an opinion on eschatology. This is gospel.
The gospel of salvation cannot be an opinion.
Scripture says if anyone teaches a different gospel let him be accursed. This is why I find this serious to defend
Its not improbable for someone to have a wrong interpretation of what is heard.
You have expressed your different views on theology here than some of us have, and that's fine. I dont see you any less a brother because you are a believer in the saving blood of Jesus.
I have only responded in regards to this matter because its not just a theology standpoint but you have used the name of a brother and have publicly made a wrong statement about him. Like I said, I would speak up in defense of any brother this way, including you.
My doing this doesnt make me being mean to you. I've tried to be direct in response but never to attack you or embarrass you.
I dont agree with a few views you have but I dont make an effort to correct you, but I felt it necessary to say something when you mention names and say something that isnt correct.
Its not personal. I would do the same with anyone for anyone. Im not a mean spirited person. I believe in doing the right thing.
Im not thinking badly of you, but you are mistaken, and I know any of us can make mistakes. When Im mistaken I should be corrected. On this, I know without a doubt where Jack Hibbs stands on salvation, just as I know where most of the members here do because of paying attention to their comments.
We are all free to express ourselves on this forum but if you notice, at times correction has had to be made, and it isnt just me making a correction.
I respect you and I love you as my brother.
I wouldn't be unkind to you, ever.
I dont think you are trying to be unkind.
You are just mistaken

Thanks Rose. I understand what you are saying. And I would stand up for Hibbs too if for example some one says, "Jack Hibbs is NAR." I don't believe he is. But a lot of people get that impression because of association he has chosen not to distance from. I've defended Jack when people try and see him being political is fleshy. Now I do have family members in his church who did sense Jack, during Trump 45, was leading the church more so in a direction of conservatism then being a pastor over the word. And in some ways Jack has publically changesd his permitting himself to be under the influence of a Trump admin. Which I really respect from Jack. Even in looking back now during Trump 45, I tended to go with JD Farag views that the Deal of the Century would divide Israel. Back then Jack supported that move. Looking back now, I agree with Jack that I would not consider the Deal of the Century to technically have been an unbiblical breaking up of Israel. And for me, working through those issues was no small matter. Having done so I see quite a bit differently these days then back in 2019.

I appreciate you sharing your heart in relation to your true concerns over this issue. To me for him to use language that close to LS, and in services he has said things like, "If you are not growing in Christ, you are not a believer." Now that is very paraphrased. I am sure it is less intense than it sounds. But however he specifically articulated it, it was actually pretty close to saying that. So what I will try and do is next time I am there, I will ask them. Or even him if I get the chance. Blessings.

 

[1LoverofGod]

Thanks brother for the feedback. I understand what you are saying. One of the reasons I would say even if Hibbs is leaning into LS or LS lite, I would still go to his church at times is because I still kind of consider myself a Lordship Salvationist (but like a 1 pointer). What I mean by that is that I don't believe one becomes saved and has 0 evidence of that ever. I believe that if the supernatural God of creation regenerates our hearts, there is plenty of places in scripture we see this demonstrates itself in people. That is why I say a 1 pointer. In that sense, to me, it is not that I or we submit to Him as Lord. Perhaps we do or perhaps that takes time or perhaps at some point we are taken home early for not doing so. But my understanding of issue "in reality" is its not making Christ Lord, it's receiving the true Jesus as God who by so doing will effect the heart. A new creation would have "some" evidence. If that makes sense.

One of the troubling overtones of how Jack expressed himself (as a mature sober minded leader believer) is that even though we might agree that Jack is not "technically" saying "You must make Jesus Lord in your heart to be saved," he uses language that exactly mirrors what those who are in Lordship Salvation camps use. And when they use, they use it to sell the subtly. So if Jack is so super sound and a mature believer leader, why use language the way Lordship Salvationists use to seduce believers into heresy? To me, its not healthy to just ride the coattails of the LS camp, but, not really mean it.

The reason why I understand Lordship Salvation is so prevalent in churches today is its a way to get your flock to consider more or less what they are doing. It is a way for the church to make the pastor look good. And we have a lot of that today. Whenever I have been to Jack's church, they are always loving and I do sense the spirit is very much in these people's hearts. Amen. So this isn't personal to me. And I can also understand perhaps my bringing this up where Rose is focusing on how not to "witch hunt" (my term) things in the Charlie Kirk camp, because i agree with Rose in what she stated, amen. So I believe it was probably not the best timing for what I shared. And I apologize for it causing a stir. And I appreciate even here more likely what Hibbs probably means.

In some ways though because Jack is a senior pastor, he is accountable to how he comes across. And maybe he does not come across to everyone the same way, granted. The reason, back in the day, when Macarthur went after the Calvery Church camp is because they, as a dinomination, did not separate from the Jesus People movement. Which kind of later became NAR. In Jmac views, he kind of ran on the premise that if one is not willing to separate themselves from a group clearly, they should not be surprised when accountability blends them in with that group. And as much as I did not nor do now see Jmac as the new spiritual sheriff in town, in his concern over some aspects of CC, I would understand to some degree that concern.

Greg Laurie is often in ties with CC. And he clearly states a free Grace gospel. But his public mantle does make access for some not so spiritually savory types to have Greg Laurie cover. In general there just seems to be a lot of networking going on today. Thanks for taking the time to consider where I'm coming from. Blessings.

Im only responding here because my name has been mentioned here
Brother, Im sorry but you are doubling down on what is your interpretation on what Pastor Jack believes and teaches.
Up thread Pastor Adrian made a comment in post 460 that is true

(Andy C said:
Hard to argue with the fact that Hibbs is not Lordship Salvation, not even a “lite” version.
Thanks for posting this.


I agree. For those who have been burned by Lordship Salvation some of the actual New Testament teachings, when properly taught, seem too much like LS. It's something I'm very conscious of when teaching and preaching. I try to stress the grace and eternal security side of things while nonetheless faithfully delivering any warning scriptures)

Post in thread 'Charlie Kirk shot at Utah Valley University.'

Sep 29, 2025

Hard to argue with the fact that Hibbs is not Lordship Salvation, not even a “lite” version.

Thanks for posting this.

I agree. For those who have been burned by Lordship Salvation some of the actual New Testament teachings, when properly taught, seem too much like LS. It's something I'm very conscious of when teaching and preaching. I try to stress the grace and eternal security side of things while nonetheless faithfully delivering any warning scriptures.

• mattfivefour

• 
• 

Sometimes when teaching we may explain something, especially when using an analogy to explain, the meaning or explanation may not be fully grasped by the listener.
The teacher may mean one thing, but different listeners may receive the understanding differently, and usually the ones who get it are those who are familiar with the teaching or where the teacher is going with the analogy used
Like Pastor Adrian stated in his post, a teacher needs to have in mind who the listener is.
Remembering to keep it to the point biblically, but simple to understand by everyone.
Otherwise, the teacher may bring misunderstanding or confusion to some listeners. But does it mean the teacher is teaching a false doctrine? Does it mean the teacher is purposely misleading the listeners?
It doesnt. It just means that maybe the teacher needs to change teaching methods so that everyone listening can have clarity on what is being presented.
Jesus kept his teachings simple but direct to the point. He used parables and illustrations that were common understanding for those who were eager to listen to him and learn.
The video example you used to share here of Pastor Jack using language that proves he teaches Lordship Salvation is not evidence its true. If someone listens to entire context of Pastor Jack teaching on Salvation Serology and can understand what he is implying by examples he uses, it in no way leads to the conclusion that he teaches Lordship Salvation which is a false gospel
You even imply Pastor Jack will be held accountable for what he is teaching.
All teachers are accountable. James 3:1
You also have a critique view of Calvary Chapel in general. In recent years since the passing of Chuck Smith there was a division in the Calvary Church due to the son inlaw Brian Broderson taking up a woke stance in the church.
But after that division there still remains a Calvary Chapel that sticks to the bible today
Some members here on this forum are part of Calvary Chapel and Im sure dont feel they are being deceived by their Pastor's teachings.
I dont think you are meaning any harm here but I do see that you lack some discernment
I will pray for you brother