Charlie Kirk shot at Utah Valley University.

[StephanMerm]

This is a post from Sean Freucht … just throwing it out there because Freucht and McCoy are sadly endorsers of the NAR and its close ties with the 7 mm , dominionism and kingdoms now ideologies.

God certainly used the memorial to get the gospel message out. But the caution is that this was also a huge ecumenical gathering and therefore not all who spoke about Christ were speaking if the same Christ.

This is an issue of remembering to test the spirits and not fall prey to believing that putting a Jesus label on everything makes it true or biblical.

 

[LightOfMyLife]

This is a post from Sean Freucht … just throwing it out there because Freucht and McCoy are sadly endorsers of the NAR and its close ties with the 7 mm , dominionism and kingdoms now ideologies.

God certainly used the memorial to get the gospel message out. But the caution is that this was also a huge ecumenical gathering and therefore not all who spoke about Christ were speaking if the same Christ.

This is an issue of remembering to test the spirits and not fall prey to believing that putting a Jesus label on everything makes it true or biblical.

Do you think Charlie was aware of the NAR aspect of their teachings? Do you know of any other Calvary pastors who are into NAR?

 

[mattfivefour]

Well in any case doing my best to articulate why to me it might seem to be discussion worthy. Not for the sake of downplaying concerns of NAR. Or of ecumicalism which you have upon your heart. God has wired us each uniquely. But I just thought I hopefully better articulate it here, if helpful for any to weight out or consider. Or having good reason to dismiss it too. But in honor of hour heritage Stephanie, just thought to share I imagine hopefully the more sharpened perspective, weigh-in, differences, and even similarities amen

@TCC: I just quoted the last paragraph because the whole thing was a lot to wade through, brother. But I agree with you overall. To me the issue is that we have made "the times" a main course; it was never meant to be. The main course is Matthew 24:46. Here it is with a one verse lead in--

"45 Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has set over his household, to give to them the food in season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, having come, will find thus doing."​

Based on Scripture taken as a whole, this should be our main focus. This should be our major. Unfortunately even the doctrinally faithful church is more concerned with the signs of the times ... not, I fear, chiefly to encourage us in our work but to try and determine how close we are to our escape.

The seeking of knowledge --more and more knowledge-- and the feeling that we are right in our position have always been two of Satan's favorite tricks to hinder and derail the real work of God. Whether one hangs their labor on Micah 6:8 or Matthew 28:18-20, the focus is the same-- bringing God to the lost and the suffering, the helpless and the marginalized. In other words, it is sharing the real and practical love of God with those who lack it and need it. This should be the focus of our greatest interest, our greatest study, our greatest discussions ... all leading to greater work for Christ. But sadly it to often takes a distant back seat.

To me, all the rest of the things with which we involve ourselves --even that regarding prophecy-- are minors that enhance and give context to our major. Let's reframe our focus to what Christ actually said He wants to see us doing when He comes for us.

 

[StephanMerm]

Getting a sense to communicate the following:

The tragedy of Charlie Kirk was horrific and senseless to which we seem to all agree with here on this forum.
However, we are not all likely to agree with how his religious beliefs and affiliations are viewed. The varying comments attest to that.
That said , my personal conviction is that Charlie and his beliefs if not initially, have over time been influenced by the New Apostolic Reformation which involves the ideologies of taking dominion over the 7 spheres which is what the 7 Mountain mandate and Kingdom Now proponents seek to do… the end goal being to Christianize all areas and usher in the return of Christ in this “ Golden Age “.

That said , not everyone at his memorial was of the NAR crowd or their philosophies.
However , the undertones of the whole event was absolutely permeated with an ecumenical message to unify for a common cause … to pick up and fight where Charlie left off …. While that in some respects is admirable and understandable as we are told to be salt and light against evil, there is a spirit behind this goal that goes deeper than just being salt and light. What comes across as fighting to defend conservative / moral values is a surface deception. It’s a case of what appears is not as it seems.
In no way is my knowledge exhausted on this subject but a lot of study and research went in to why I personally think what I do.
If anything, the fact that there are some like Spencer, and a few others expressing the same insights and views on the matter has added some validity to what I’ve
been “ shouting “ for a while now. And it is out of love and honest concern for my brothers and sisters in Christ , that I share and continue to speak up about it.

Again , I’d strongly suggest to check out Spencer Smith’s series on Charlie and the NAR/ ecumenism. Each is about 15 minutes and although he , just as any of us is not the all knowing of everything, he explains specifically what and why there should be cause for concern.

In the past , I have been in a predicament where , many did not like my take on this same topic and were offended at naming names and going against the grain of the majority and it became a burden that led me to reevaluate my participation.

The bottom line is this… there is agreeing to disagree , there is respecting differing opinions, and there is also having a willingness to be challenged if there is disagreement. That does not mean one must compromise their personal views and convictions of course, but that sharing them is how we grow and mature when there’s a differing of opinions.

Regarding this issue and specifically the overhanging NAR influence and involvement involved , it’s more a reminder to do as scripture commands and test the spirits , to not idolize any man , to not believe just because but study for yourself … because deception is a thing and we are certainly in the days Jesus first and foremost AND REPEATEDLY, warned us to be careful of allowing that to happen.

@TCC … dearest Teren, … I know your stance on the role of the NAR and how we differ on some of it, but I still love you

 

[Amethyst]

Well whatever’s going on with TPUSA
I think it was great what Frank Turek came out and said
In case anyone think Charlie Kirk is going to heaven because he was a “great man” or “ spoke boldly” or was a “ great friend” or was “an innocent martyr” or a “wonderful husband and father”
You’re wrong.
He is going to heaven bc he put his total trust in Jesus sacrifice for his sins.

 

[LightOfMyLife]

I know that scripture tells us some shall depart from the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons. Jesus tells us to be not deceived.We are not to add or take away from Gods word.

 

[StephanMerm]

Do you think Charlie was aware of the NAR aspect of their teachings? Do you know of any other Calvary pastors who are into NAR?

Here is the conundrum: there were many Calvary Chapel pastors , specifically Jack Hibbs and James Kaddis who consistently had Kirk come speak at their church / on three YouTube channels… while it is unlikely they themselves were willing participants in the NAR agenda , there is no doubt they were at least covertly promoting its ideologies of taking control , especially of the political ( one of the 7 mountains).
As for Charlie , he has been on air quoting his support of the 7 Mountain Mandate theology. Bob McCoy is a proponent of the NAR.
Did he know or purposely push all of its ideology…. Who knows , probably not .
It is my opinion that he was influenced by their movement as evidenced by who he linked up with : Sean Fruecht , Lance Wallnau ( who are staunch proponents) to name a few. His motives were in all likelihood well intended and came from a desire to change this country from where it’s headed.



I have said for years that associations matter and that statement has gone over like a lead balloon for many because, again , people do not like a person they hold in high esteem called out.

The wrong influences , such as from false teachers like Fruecht , can infect and come to fuel those motives because “ it seems these NAR , influencers have the same motive … to “ fix “ the country.

So what started as an innocent push to steer this country into a better moral path, has been overtaken by a theological nightmare called the NAR that seeks to implement its dominion/,kingdom now falsehoods that appear as being of the same motive that Charlie and others originally had , yet it is no longer the same but an unbiblical push for ecumenical unity in hopes they reach their goal of dominion for Jesus, their redefined Jesus , not of scripture.

This is not a let’s bash Charlie Kirk and his beliefs. Which I know will be the accusation of some. This is a plea to look at the total picture of everything interjected into the mix and discern the various red flags that some have pointed out. There is a difference between one’s opinion about something and a connecting of dots that result in a factual or at least probable conclusion.

These talking points that many are putting out there over all this will either be proven wrong or true and only time will tell. But in the meantime, we all should pray for discernment because we are not God and can sensationalize things and / or make unfounded assumptions. However , we can also put blinders on and not see what is right there.

 

[StephanMerm]

@TCC: I just quoted the last paragraph because the whole thing was a lot to wade through, brother. But I agree with you overall. To me the issue is that we have made "the times" a main course; it was never meant to be. The main course is Matthew 24:46. Here it is with a one verse lead in--

"45 Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has set over his household, to give to them the food in season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, having come, will find thus doing."​

Based on Scripture taken as a whole, this should be our main focus. This should be our major. Unfortunately even the doctrinally faithful church is more concerned with the signs of the times ... not, I fear, chiefly to encourage us in our work but to try and determine how close we are to our escape.

The seeking of knowledge --more and more knowledge-- and the feeling that we are right in our position have always been two of Satan's favorite tricks to hinder and derail the real work of God. Whether one hangs their labor on Micah 6:8 or Matthew 28:18-20, the focus is the same-- bringing God to the lost and the suffering, the helpless and the marginalized. In other words, it is sharing the real and practical love of God with those who lack it and need it. This should be the focus of our greatest interest, our greatest study, our greatest discussions ... all leading to greater work for Christ. But sadly it to often takes a distant back seat. To me, all the rest of the things with which we involve ourselves --even that regarding prophecy-- are minors that enhance and give context to our major. Let's reframe our focus to what Christ actually said He wants to see us doing when He comes for us.

Absolutely!
speaking for myself, while I get passionate about this NAR issue , the most unsettling part is their hyper focus on “ saving “ the nation instead of a focus on individual saving souls.
The gospel , although it was presented many times at the memorial, is not the main thing outside of this tribute.
When all is said and done, it won’t matter who was voted in , what laws were passed and the unsaved will not care when they are spending an eternity in hell.

And that is one of the biggest grievances to this whole mess of taking dominion and kingdom now nonsense. We will not have a perfect government until Jesus himself sets his kingdom up and is ruling.
The gospel message was , is , and should always be the main thing… place your faith alone in Christ alone, for the free gift of salvation which He offers by His grace and not by our works …. So as many as possible can live in an eternity when there will finally be perfect rule by a perfect Ruler.

 

[1LoverofGod]

Here is the conundrum: there were many Calvary Chapel pastors , specifically Jack Hibbs and James Kaddis who consistently had Kirk come speak at their church / on three YouTube channels… while it is unlikely they themselves were willing participants in the NAR agenda , there is no doubt they were at least covertly promoting its ideologies of taking control , especially of the political ( one of the 7 mountains).
As for Charlie , he has been on air quoting his support of the 7 Mountain Mandate theology. Bob McCoy is a proponent of the NAR.
Did he know or purposely push all of its ideology…. Who knows , probably not .
It is my opinion that he was influenced by their movement as evidenced by who he linked up with : Sean Fruecht , Lance Wallnau ( who are staunch proponents) to name a few. His motives were in all likelihood well intended and came from a desire to change this country from where it’s headed.



I have said for years that associations matter and that statement has gone over like a lead balloon for many because, again , people do not like a person they hold in high esteem called out.

The wrong influences , such as from false teachers like Fruecht , can infect and come to fuel those motives because “ it seems these NAR , influencers have the same motive … to “ fix “ the country.

So what started as an innocent push to steer this country into a better moral path, has been overtaken by a theological nightmare called the NAR that seeks to implement its dominion/,kingdom now falsehoods that appear as being of the same motive that Charlie and others originally had , yet it is no longer the same but an unbiblical push for ecumenical unity in hopes they reach their goal of dominion for Jesus, their redefined Jesus , not of scripture.

This is not a let’s bash Charlie Kirk and his beliefs. Which I know will be the accusation of some. This is a plea to look at the total picture of everything interjected into the mix and discern the various red flags that some have pointed out. There is a difference between one’s opinion about something and a connecting of dots that result in a factual or at least probable conclusion.

These talking points that many are putting out there over all this will either be proven wrong or true and only time will tell. But in the meantime, we all should pray for discernment because we are not God and can sensationalize things and / or make unfounded assumptions. However , we can also put blinders on and not see what is right there.

Do you follow Zak Spiro from the Wretched Watchmen?

 

[StephanMerm]

10 False Views of the New Apostolic Reformation

The New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) is one of the fastest-growing false Christian movements in America. To help warn and teach the body of Christ, I've put together 10 of their major doctrinal errors. 1. Apostolic Authority: The NAR believes that God has restored the office of the apostles as the

fortunato.blog

 

[StephanMerm]

10 False Views of the New Apostolic Reformation

Seven Mountain Mandate - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Direct attention to section titled “ prominent followers “

Quote, “ Finally , we have a president that understands the 7 Mountains of cultural influence “
- Charlie Kirk , CPAC convention

 

[1LoverofGod]

10 False Views of the New Apostolic Reformation

Seven Mountain Mandate - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Direct attention to section titled “ prominent followers “

Quote, “ Finally , we have a president that understands the 7 Mountains of cultural influence “
- Charlie Kirk , CPAC convention

Do you have another source other than wikipedia?
Wikipedia is known for bias and having wrong information. Its only fair to have another more credible source when making serious allegations about someone

 

[Tall Timbers]

Do you have another source other than wikipedia?
Wikipedia is known for bias and having wrong information. Its only fair to have another more credible source when making serious allegations about someone

There's ample sources out there for confirmation. Search the interweb and you'll be inundated.

 

[1LoverofGod]

There's ample sources out there for confirmation. Search the interweb and you'll be inundated.

I know there is ample information out there on the 7 mountain mandate. Im referring to the "prominent followers" with Charlie Kirk's name on it as a prominent follower of the 7 mountain mandate and that quote from him

 

[1LoverofGod]

All of this seems to go back to the 2024 election and Christians who chose to vote getting criticized because of voting for "the lessor evil" as some put it.
Voting became wrong and it was wrong to be salt and light to try to keep our freedoms in this country.
I have nothing else to say

 

[Amethyst]

Do you have another source other than wikipedia?
Wikipedia is known for bias and having wrong information. Its only fair to have another more credible source when making serious allegations about someone

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

He says it at 13:00 in this video

 

[Tall Timbers]

I know there is ample information out there on the 7 mountain mandate. Im referring to the "prominent followers" with Charlie Kirk's name on it as a prominent follower of the 7 mountain mandate and that quote from him

I was referring to the same thing as you. I didn't know anything about Charlie Kirk until after he was assassinated. Perusing some of the articles about him afterwards led me to believe he was deep into the NAR camp. Whether that is correct or not doesn't matter so much as it's just my impression of a public person I wasn't exposed to while he was alive.

If that is correct, I don't hold it against him. He's gone now and his race is finished. I've prayed for his wife and children. My biggest thought when Charlie crosses my mind is it warmed my heart when I saw how he apparently deeply loved his wife and children.

RIP, Charlie. My heart goes out to his children more than anything. God, please take good care of those little ones.

 

[Hol]

All of this seems to go back to the 2024 election and Christians who chose to vote getting criticized because of voting for "the lessor evil" as some put it.
Voting became wrong and it was wrong to be salt and light to try to keep our freedoms in this country.
I have nothing else to say

I agree. The Charlie Kirk who I followed since Trump's first term, wanted a big tent that included anyone who would vote for Trump. His Calvary Chapel connection indicates conservative Christian values that most of us share, but he was careful to keep that big tent attitude. I think his mission from God was very specific and we are not doing ourselves any favors by trying to pin faults on him now.

 

[1LoverofGod]

I agree. The Charlie Kirk who I followed since Trump's first term, wanted a big tent that included anyone who would vote for Trump. His Calvary Chapel connection indicates conservative Christian values that most of us share, but he was careful to keep that big tent attitude. I think his mission from God was very specific and we are not doing ourselves any favors by trying to pin faults on him now.

The problem I have with how things are being said is that any Christian who wants to maintain freedom and morality and lawfulness in our country and choosing to use the freedom by having a say in who our leaders are is wrong.
I think we as believers fully understand only Jesus will bring true justice and change to righteousness. Our primary focus should be spiritual. But we shouldn't just be silent as our kids are indoctrinated, transitioned in schools behind parents backs and kids taken away from parents for not affirming transitioning. Why is it wrong to be involved in changing these things if we have the freedom to do it by having a say in who leads us in politics?
It doesnt make every Christian NAR for trying to hold back evil as a restraining force by having a say in politics.
Politics should not influence our faith, but our faith should influence politics.
No one has to agree with this. But I think its unfair to label any Christian NAR for wanting to restrain evil by having a say in who is running our nation or other political positions

 

[Batman]

I'm definitely worried about an ecumenical movement in and outside of TPUSA and evangelicalism with catholics, mormons, JWs, NAR, hyper and less hyper charismatics, etc., etc.