Charlie Kirk shot at Utah Valley University.

[Amethyst]

*

 

[StephanMerm]

I checked out the Turning Point website. Have mixed feelings about it. Bottom line, it doesn’t matter what my feelings are because God will do what he wants with it and He is definitely using it for His glory.

But from what I could see its patriotic aspect is wonderful; its Christian aspect is NAR all the way.

Youngsters are getting saved so that’s more important than any of this.

Yes, that was my biggest issue with Charlie.
consider checking out :


Spencer Smith just posted a few new videos on Charlie Kirk and the mass NAR attendees at his funeral tribute and Charlie’s unfortunate ties to not just those in the NAR , but the ecumenism ( the unbiblical unification of all religions/ people for a common good ) at the core of much of Charlie’s views.

He is doing a segment series and has posted 3 so far , each less than 15 minutes long. Spencer also posted a short video about the Erika Kirk and an article of the occult embracing her fortitude. He does bring up the Divine feminine aspect as well.

Charlie absolutely embraced the 7 Mountain Mandate ideologies and dominionism/ kingdom now ( which is under the umbrella of NAR doctrines ) which is evident in his political and even religious stances.
There is a huge politicization of religion and this push to take dominion over everything, ignite a revival and join everyone , regardless of religion, together for this cause Charlie Kirk was known for …

IMO , this is in part a huge red flag of what could lead to the one world religion/ government of the coming Antichrist.

 

[1LoverofGod]

I think there has been a lot of negative being put out there in social media and in the general media that portrays things about Charlie Kirk that has no evidence other than "he said, she said" and based on people he surrounded himself with. He is even getting criticism from Christians who never even knew him but base the criticism on what some people have said like, "Charlie said" or "Charlie told me" or "Charlie texted me". But how does anyone know if any of it is true? And to make an accusation based on association isnt fair.

I want to point out some things.
I may get pushback but I feel the need to say these things.

If there is evidence that Charlie was part of the Dominionism seven mountain mandate and his beliefs were about unifying all religions, I would be interested in hearing that out of Charlie's mouth. There are a multitude of videos out there with Charlie speaking about his faith. I would like to hear it from him.
Its true that he did "appease" some with false religious beliefs, like a video that surfaced when he had an event in Utah and he "appeased" the Mormons. He was trying to get their conservative support in doing that.
I personally think that was not a good thing to do that, and was an error on his part.
That still didn't make Charlie unsaved.
Who of us can say we have never messed up? Who of us can say we haven't made errors?
Does our fallen nature make us unsaved?

I heard Charlie speak over the years, not only when he was having a Turning Point USA event, but when he sat several times with Pastor Jack Hibbs at Calvary Chapel Chino Hills to speak in the church service.
I have seen him address people who he disagreed with regards to the bible. He used sound doctrine to respond
I never once heard him imply that he aligned himself with Dominionism beliefs nor unbiblical beliefs. He was a solid believer.

He did surround himself with many people with different religious beliefs, but it was not because he was aligned with those people's religious beliefs. It was for what his movement stood for, Turning Point USA

Aside from his faith, he formed a conservative movement in politics because he believed in the judeo Christian foundation of America's Constitution. While he didn't hold back from including his faith based beliefs in his political activities, what came out of his mouth with respect to his faith was biblical and he emphasized the need to restore biblical morals and values in this country.

Why have NAR, Catholics, Mormons or any other religion around him?
It wasnt because they had common beliefs of faith. It was to have common ground on the conservative beliefs in politics that would give more influence to change people's minds about certain views in politics with intentions of making sure conservatives would be voted into office. Charlie did not make politics his religion.
He didn't want to see the country go further down morally, socially, and loss of freedom.
So he worked along side different people that would keep the Republic of America.

I dont consider myself a political person. But I understand why Charlie associated with people who had different religious backgrounds. It wasnt for the religion but for the conservative support in politics.

In Congress, Republicans typically aren't on the same page with Democrats. But when trying to get bills passed sometimes both parties have to work together across the isle to try and convince the opposing part to agree on the proposed bill.
That's how politics works.
Charlie didn't bring politics into his faith. He brought his faith into politics.

Having association with unbelievers doesnt mean a person isnt saved.
Many unbelievers who were impacted by Charlie's faith and how he carried himself when defending it became believers.

Jesus was criticized over those He spent time with and it serves as an example in how it is unbelievers who need the gospel more than believers. Sometimes in spending time with them, in the work place, at school, at the gym, or wherever, when spending time with them and talking to them about Jesus and setting an example that they can see is a witness that can draw people to Jesus.

10 "Now it happened, as Jesus sat at the table in the house, that behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Him and His disciples.
11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His disciples, “Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
12 When Jesus heard that, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.
13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”
Matthew 9:10-13

Charlie had the correct understanding of salvation. Christians who personally knew him have attested to that.
I believe Charlie was saved and is in the presence of The Lord.

Anyone who would like to throw rocks at me now, please be gentle lol

I love you all, even when we dont agree on everything. We do agree God is Good and that's good enough for me

 

[mattfivefour]

this is in part a huge red flag of what could lead to the one world religion/ government of the coming Antichrist.

Yes, whenever faith is politicized there is that danger. But actively bringing our faith into the public sphere by working towards godly values in the way our country is administered is in accordance with God's Word. We are called upon to be salt and light; we are called to respect our governments and their agents, yet resist evil decrees; we are called to love everyone around us and to help the weak, the defenseless, the marginalized. These things cannot be accomplished by simply sitting back. Yet at the same time they cannot be accomplished by worldly actions based upon worldly views. It is a very difficult road to walk and it is very easy for zealots saints to get caught up in the wing things. This is why sound doctrine is so important. Only by correctly dividing the Word of God can we avoid the pitfalls that await; and even then we can still make bad decisions. We need both the leading of the Holy Spirit and, since none of us is perfect, a lot of grace ... both incoming and outgoing.

 

[Andy C]

I think there has been a lot of negative being put out there in social media and in the general media that portrays things about Charlie Kirk that has no evidence other than "he said, she said" and based on people he surrounded himself with. He is even getting criticism from Christians who never even knew him but base the criticism on what some people have said like, "Charlie said" or "Charlie told me" or "Charlie texted me". But how does anyone know if any of it is true? And to make an accusation based on association isnt fair.

I want to point out some things.
I may get pushback but I feel the need to say these things.

If there is evidence that Charlie was part of the Dominionism seven mountain mandate and his beliefs were about unifying all religions, I would be interested in hearing that out of Charlie's mouth. There are a multitude of videos out there with Charlie speaking about his faith. I would like to hear it from him.
Its true that he did "appease" some with false religious beliefs, like a video that surfaced when he had an event in Utah and he "appeased" the Mormons. He was trying to get their conservative support in doing that.
I personally think that was not a good thing to do that, and was an error on his part.
That still didn't make Charlie unsaved.
Who of us can say we have never messed up? Who of us can say we haven't made errors?
Does our fallen nature make us unsaved?

I heard Charlie speak over the years, not only when he was having a Turning Point USA event, but when he sat several times with Pastor Jack Hibbs at Calvary Chapel Chino Hills to speak in the church service.
I have seen him address people who he disagreed with regards to the bible. He used sound doctrine to respond
I never once heard him imply that he aligned himself with Dominionism beliefs nor unbiblical beliefs. He was a solid believer.

He did surround himself with many people with different religious beliefs, but it was not because he was aligned with those people's religious beliefs. It was for what his movement stood for, Turning Point USA

Aside from his faith, he formed a conservative movement in politics because he believed in the judeo Christian foundation of America's Constitution. While he didn't hold back from including his faith based beliefs in his political activities, what came out of his mouth with respect to his faith was biblical and he emphasized the need to restore biblical morals and values in this country.

Why have NAR, Catholics, Mormons or any other religion around him?
It wasnt because they had common beliefs of faith. It was to have common ground on the conservative beliefs in politics that would give more influence to change people's minds about certain views in politics with intentions of making sure conservatives would be voted into office. Charlie did not make politics his religion.
He didn't want to see the country go further down morally, socially, and loss of freedom.
So he worked along side different people that would keep the Republic of America.

I dont consider myself a political person. But I understand why Charlie associated with people who had different religious backgrounds. It wasnt for the religion but for the conservative support in politics.

In Congress, Republicans typically aren't on the same page with Democrats. But when trying to get bills passed sometimes both parties have to work together across the isle to try and convince the opposing part to agree on the proposed bill.
That's how politics works.
Charlie didn't bring politics into his faith. He brought his faith into politics.

Having association with unbelievers doesnt mean a person isnt saved.
Many unbelievers who were impacted by Charlie's faith and how he carried himself when defending it became believers.

Jesus was criticized over those He spent time with and it serves as an example in how it is unbelievers who need the gospel more than believers. Sometimes in spending time with them, in the work place, at school, at the gym, or wherever, when spending time with them and talking to them about Jesus and setting an example that they can see is a witness that can draw people to Jesus.

10 "Now it happened, as Jesus sat at the table in the house, that behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Him and His disciples.
11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His disciples, “Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
12 When Jesus heard that, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.
13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”
Matthew 9:10-13

Charlie had the correct understanding of salvation. Christians who personally knew him have attested to that.
I believe Charlie was saved and is in the presence of The Lord.

Anyone who would like to throw rocks at me now, please be gentle lol

I love you all, even when we dont agree on everything. We do agree God is Good and that's good enough for me

Well said Rose. 100 percent agree on all points.

 

[Amethyst]

I did see Spencer show a clip of Glenn Beck trying to compare Charlie Kirk's death to his mormon prophet Joseph Smith's "martyrdom"
So several people trying to co-opt his death for their own false religion, using their friendship with Charlie as the basis.

 

[Cheeky200386]

Yes, that was my biggest issue with Charlie.
consider checking out :


Spencer Smith just posted a few new videos on Charlie Kirk and the mass NAR attendees at his funeral tribute and Charlie’s unfortunate ties to not just those in the NAR , but the ecumenism ( the unbiblical unification of all religions/ people for a common good ) at the core of much of Charlie’s views.

He is doing a segment series and has posted 3 so far , each less than 15 minutes long. Spencer also posted a short video about the Erika Kirk and an article of the occult embracing her fortitude. He does bring up the Divine feminine aspect as well.

Charlie absolutely embraced the 7 Mountain Mandate ideologies and dominionism/ kingdom now ( which is under the umbrella of NAR doctrines ) which is evident in his political and even religious stances.
There is a huge politicization of religion and this push to take dominion over everything, ignite a revival and join everyone , regardless of religion, together for this cause Charlie Kirk was known for …

IMO , this is in part a huge red flag of what could lead to the one world religion/ government of the coming Antichrist.

Thank you!!! I just posted the first episode in another thread. I worry people are just going to write it off but it's actually worth a listen, especially with the fact that we all acknowledge Charlie is a believer but that doesn't mean his organization is going in the right direction. The seeds are there for things to go off the rails very quickly.

 

[Cheeky200386]

I think there has been a lot of negative being put out there in social media and in the general media that portrays things about Charlie Kirk that has no evidence other than "he said, she said" and based on people he surrounded himself with. He is even getting criticism from Christians who never even knew him but base the criticism on what some people have said like, "Charlie said" or "Charlie told me" or "Charlie texted me". But how does anyone know if any of it is true? And to make an accusation based on association isnt fair.

I want to point out some things.
I may get pushback but I feel the need to say these things.

If there is evidence that Charlie was part of the Dominionism seven mountain mandate and his beliefs were about unifying all religions, I would be interested in hearing that out of Charlie's mouth. There are a multitude of videos out there with Charlie speaking about his faith. I would like to hear it from him.
Its true that he did "appease" some with false religious beliefs, like a video that surfaced when he had an event in Utah and he "appeased" the Mormons. He was trying to get their conservative support in doing that.
I personally think that was not a good thing to do that, and was an error on his part.
That still didn't make Charlie unsaved.
Who of us can say we have never messed up? Who of us can say we haven't made errors?
Does our fallen nature make us unsaved?

I heard Charlie speak over the years, not only when he was having a Turning Point USA event, but when he sat several times with Pastor Jack Hibbs at Calvary Chapel Chino Hills to speak in the church service.
I have seen him address people who he disagreed with regards to the bible. He used sound doctrine to respond
I never once heard him imply that he aligned himself with Dominionism beliefs nor unbiblical beliefs. He was a solid believer.

He did surround himself with many people with different religious beliefs, but it was not because he was aligned with those people's religious beliefs. It was for what his movement stood for, Turning Point USA

Aside from his faith, he formed a conservative movement in politics because he believed in the judeo Christian foundation of America's Constitution. While he didn't hold back from including his faith based beliefs in his political activities, what came out of his mouth with respect to his faith was biblical and he emphasized the need to restore biblical morals and values in this country.

Why have NAR, Catholics, Mormons or any other religion around him?
It wasnt because they had common beliefs of faith. It was to have common ground on the conservative beliefs in politics that would give more influence to change people's minds about certain views in politics with intentions of making sure conservatives would be voted into office. Charlie did not make politics his religion.
He didn't want to see the country go further down morally, socially, and loss of freedom.
So he worked along side different people that would keep the Republic of America.

I dont consider myself a political person. But I understand why Charlie associated with people who had different religious backgrounds. It wasnt for the religion but for the conservative support in politics.

In Congress, Republicans typically aren't on the same page with Democrats. But when trying to get bills passed sometimes both parties have to work together across the isle to try and convince the opposing part to agree on the proposed bill.
That's how politics works.
Charlie didn't bring politics into his faith. He brought his faith into politics.

Having association with unbelievers doesnt mean a person isnt saved.
Many unbelievers who were impacted by Charlie's faith and how he carried himself when defending it became believers.

Jesus was criticized over those He spent time with and it serves as an example in how it is unbelievers who need the gospel more than believers. Sometimes in spending time with them, in the work place, at school, at the gym, or wherever, when spending time with them and talking to them about Jesus and setting an example that they can see is a witness that can draw people to Jesus.

10 "Now it happened, as Jesus sat at the table in the house, that behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Him and His disciples.
11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His disciples, “Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
12 When Jesus heard that, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.
13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”
Matthew 9:10-13

Charlie had the correct understanding of salvation. Christians who personally knew him have attested to that.
I believe Charlie was saved and is in the presence of The Lord.

Anyone who would like to throw rocks at me now, please be gentle lol

I love you all, even when we dont agree on everything. We do agree God is Good and that's good enough for me

I'm not sure if anyone is saying Charlie was unsaved, unless I missed that somewhere.

 

[Cheeky200386]

I did see Spencer show a clip of Glenn Beck trying to compare Charlie Kirk's death to his mormon prophet Joseph Smith's "martyrdom"
So several people trying to co-opt his death for their own false religion, using their friendship with Charlie as the basis.

It is distrubing how many people are trying to use his death to promote their own false religions or teachings. Now even the occult is claiming Erika Kirk as emobdying the Divine Feminine. It's insane.

 

[Greg]

Rose, your post #363 was one of those I really had to struggle between the 100 percent and love reactions. Really wish we could apply both.

 

[Amethyst]

I'm not sure if anyone is saying Charlie was unsaved, unless I missed that somewhere.

Nope, no one is, not even Spencer. He acknowledged he believed Charlie is in heaven based no how many times he gave a clear gospel.

 

[Greg]

Nope, no one is, not even Spencer. He acknowledged he believed Charlie is in heaven based no how many times he gave a clear gospel.

I saw someone else cast doubt on his salvation. There's all kinds of sick soapboxing going on that really gives Christians a bad name.

 

[Amethyst]

I saw someone else cast doubt on his salvation. There's all kinds of sick soapboxing going on that really gives Christians a bad name.

Right but as far as Spencer Smith goes, which the poster above was referring to in the post being referenced, or anyone on this board for that matter.

There's people that will question everyone's salvation. We get newbies on this board questioning our whole board's salvation lol.

 

[Amethyst]

It is distrubing how many people are trying to use his death to promote their own false religions or teachings. Now even the occult is claiming Erika Kirk as emobdying the Divine Feminine. It's insane.

Amir Tsarfati mentioned how in Tucker's speech he made a veiled reference to the Jews killing Jesus just like [they killed Charlie.]
I didn't know since I didn't tune into Tucker's speech.

 

[1LoverofGod]

I'm not sure if anyone is saying Charlie was unsaved, unless I missed that somewhere.

The term unsaved I have not heard
But I am seeing a lot of statements equating him with NAR, and other people with religious false doctrine because they supported his political views.
If a Mormon supported him in politics, that doesnt mean Charlie supported Mormonism that is a false religion that believes in a different Jesus.
As I explained above, associating with people that have false doctrine to promote and build a political movement doesnt mean its adopting the false doctrine of those people.
But I do see a lot of criticism against Charlie for who he had supporting his movement over core political beliefs and equating it to his own faith.

 

[Cheeky200386]

The term unsaved I have not heard
But I am seeing a lot of statements equating him with NAR, and other people with religious false doctrine because they supported his political views.
If a Mormon supported him in politics, that doesnt mean Charlie supported Mormonism that is a false religion that believes in a different Jesus.
As I explained above, associating with people that have false doctrine to promote and build a political movement doesnt mean its adopting the false doctrine of those people.
But I do see a lot of criticism against Charlie for who he had supporting his movement over core political beliefs and equating it to his own faith.

The problem with working together or uniting with peopel who believe in false doctrine is that it ultimately leads to compromise somewhere. He was promoting the idea that we need Christianity in politics but it's hard to do that if you are uniting with Catholics, for example. What "Christianity" is the organization going to ultimately promote. That is my concern.

There was a post that Charlie made about how he would support the Pope if the Pope would only defend the west, defend Biological Truths, defend eternal Truths and defend the Faith. Yet we all know Catholicism is heretical at it's core. That is from Charlie's own words.

I encourage you to watch the video I posted for you to get a better understanding of what Spencer Smith along with what myself and a few on this board are trying to share with you. There are legitimate concerns with what the future of Turning Point USA could lead to because of small compromises that don't seem that big now but could be disasterous later on.

This reminds me of the issue with The Chosen. I supproted them initially but as time went on, it became clear that the influence of Mormonism and Catholicism were impacting Dallas Jenkins and what he was putting in the show. He claims to be Evangelical.

"Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.” 1 Corinithians 15:33. In the NASB 1995 version: "Do not be deceived: Bad company corrupts good morals.”

 

[Cheeky200386]

The term unsaved I have not heard
But I am seeing a lot of statements equating him with NAR, and other people with religious false doctrine because they supported his political views.
If a Mormon supported him in politics, that doesnt mean Charlie supported Mormonism that is a false religion that believes in a different Jesus.
As I explained above, associating with people that have false doctrine to promote and build a political movement doesnt mean its adopting the false doctrine of those people.
But I do see a lot of criticism against Charlie for who he had supporting his movement over core political beliefs and equating it to his own faith.

FYI the Turning Point USA Meeting on Monday night, yesterday, involved Michael Knowles who begins by praying to St. Michael. That's already concerning to me and completely unacceptable to a political organization claiming to promote Christianity. My question again is what kind of "Christianity"?

Charlie was a brother in Christ who seemed to have sadly allowed the seeds of compromise in his organization and that's the concern I have. I hope that makes sense and why it's a problem with how big and influential it is with the next generation. We're not talking about Joe Shmoe down the road compromising but a powerful company touching millions.

 

[1LoverofGod]

I just cant bring myself to cast a stone when I know I mess up and fall short of the glory of God more than I care to.
Im not qualified to pull the straw out of a brother's eye, especially when he cant defend himself.
But this is me
I apologize for making statements that are not agreeable to others
"Continue to love one another just as I have loved you". Jesus

 

[Cheeky200386]

I just cant bring myself to cast a stone when I know I mess up and fall short of the glory of God more than I care to.
Im not qualified to pull the straw out of a brother's eye, especially when he cant defend himself.
But this is me
I apologize for making statements that are not agreeable to others
"Continue to love one another just as I have loved you". Jesus

When do you think it's acceptable to warn other believers of deception that is coming out of someone's ministry/legacy/Christian organization?

I don't deny Charlie's salvation. I think he was a wonderful brother in Christ. He was bold in proclaiming the Gospel. I loved his videos that I saw. He also, sadly, held to some flawed ideas and Satan will probably use that for his evil devices. Both can be true.

That's all I'm saying, along with Spencer Smith. That we need to be careful and mark the areas where Satan has an inroad to spread these false doctrines like Catholicism. I don't think that undoes everything that Charlie did for God, either. I just know like with anything, Satan will take full advantage of the unity with false believers to push his organization down a path Charlie probably did not want.

I'm not sure how Erika Kirk will lead the organization. We can only pray that she has strong discernment.

I do love your sweet heart Rose.

 

[Amethyst]

I don't deny Charlie's salvation. I think he was a wonderful brother in Christ. He was bold in proclaiming the Gospel. I loved his videos that I saw. He also, sadly, held to some flawed ideas and Satan will probably use that for his evil devices. Both can be true.

Agree.

I know God doesn’t want us to be cynical about everything, but also, Love warns.

Many people were upset and hurt by those who warned them not to trust in date setters and date setting. But, love warns.