Billboards Declare ‘Israel Is Ready’ as Coalition Pushes for Saudi Normalization

[Hol]

Here it is on Yishai's YT: - YouTube

and if anyone can find that original I'd love to see it. I'm busy today so I'm not going headfirst into a search to retrieve Michelle's original at whatever conference she was at with Jack Hibbs.

Thanks for posting @Margery i watched it Monday.

I’m not surprised that he felt pressured to take it down, if that’s why it was removed.

He was expressing that in Israel there is almost a national gag order on questioning the peace deal.

 

[Margery]

I tried to watch it, but it says the video was removed by the uploader.

sorry about that, as Hol said, probably pressure. He was outspoken in his agreement with Michelle Bachman.

The takeaway was simply the heartfelt thanks he was expressing over her support of Israel's right to the land. I could see in him a reflection of what is coming when we are gone, and the Jews realize who their Messiah truly is.

He's not connecting the dots yet, but it gave me such joy to see his response, and his connecting the dots to Bible believing Christians who support him and othrs like him who want to do God's will and hold the land He gave them.

Just a foretaste of the joy we will feel as each precious son and daughter of Abraham Isaac and Jacob turns to Christ. I know 2/3 will not make it thru - although how many of the ones who die will be saved we don't know. The ones that survive and enter into the kingdom will be turning to Christ then.

It was beautiful to see.

He did mention the pressure he was already under for speaking out on this topic.

I still haven't taken time to search for Michelle's full vid that he excerpted. All I know it was in the last 10 days 2 weeks or so, maybe 3 weeks and she was beside Jack Hibbs and someone else at a conference I didn't recognize.

 

[TCC]

sorry about that, as Hol said, probably pressure. He was outspoken in his agreement with Michelle Bachman.

The takeaway was simply the heartfelt thanks he was expressing over her support of Israel's right to the land. I could see in him a reflection of what is coming when we are gone, and the Jews realize who their Messiah truly is.

He's not connecting the dots yet, but it gave me such joy to see his response, and his connecting the dots to Bible believing Christians who support him and othrs like him who want to do God's will and hold the land He gave them.

Just a foretaste of the joy we will feel as each precious son and daughter of Abraham Isaac and Jacob turns to Christ. I know 2/3 will not make it thru - although how many of the ones who die will be saved we don't know. The ones that survive and enter into the kingdom will be turning to Christ then.

It was beautiful to see.

He did mention the pressure he was already under for speaking out on this topic.

I still haven't taken time to search for Michelle's full vid that he excerpted. All I know it was in the last 10 days 2 weeks or so, maybe 3 weeks and she was beside Jack Hibbs and someone else at a conference I didn't recognize.

It is an amazing time. I believe it is the time we think it might be. Although, end times pushes have been throughout history...in a postmodern era we tend to self doubt as a virtue. Which would make sense when that time might be.

But yeah, if it is right around the corner and we are witnesses of the local drift upon its actual shore, wow, what a time to be slated to be to have been alive. Wow.

So in thinking upon your post Margery, yeah, 2/3rds stood out to me now in an unusual way. I believe the exact reference of that concerning Israel will be the remnant of Ez 38 is my take. If true, and Ez 38 does come on the eve or just at the start of the tribulation period, then it would make sense that the 1/3 that survive will go through it. Which kind of dog whistles me over to Rev 12's 1/3. Almost like God is playing poker...lol. His 1/3 vs the devils 1/3.

In my eschatology I view Seals, then Trumpets, all in first half. And only bowls in the second. There might not be any relation at all to the Trumpets 1/3 and Israel, but it would make sense that if the 1/3 of Israel are Ez 38 survivors, then they would be the 1/3 tested under the Trumepts 1/3rd theme...leading to the climax, as I would understand it, of the AC proper (if there is such a term...lol). And then out of all of that I would believe it is the 144k that highlight the second half.

Just musing over if there might be a sense this 1/3 number used in scripture might have some interesting poetics to it. Thanks for sharing. Blessings.

 

[TCC]

Though I seldom express this thought here, and our sis @KMendel may be shocked, but I’ve got to say that I get troubled when Israel leans on the US, coming under the shadow of our wing. I pray they will stop doing that. How many disciplines has Israel taken because they looked to Egypt for help?

As a supporter of MAGA, I optimistically hope & pray that we’re being used by God to further His will in Israel, and not a version of Egypt.

In respect of @KMendel, I believe your dear sister might be blessed by our stance Hol What I tend to do though in this season with Israel is wondering how those kinds of differences might translate in an Israel brought back by God in their hardened unbelief. Like what applied for ancient Israel when God had them as the showbread testimony to the world for His name sake. They still are in the "ongoing" sense. But they are currently not used to intimately testify regarding His authentic prophetic word (even though God would transcend all that and use them for escatological witness....maybe even to great degree in contrast to some church themes these days, even). "Even" emphasized.

But Israel in their partial hardening by God Himself judicially (a concept that is for me a very tender living reality because of its implications towards Calvinism and Lordship Salvation) I would not see as protected under that statutes of God's production due to their obedience...which was part of the arrangement in the OT for them. As much as I would generously understand a great hope for Israel in their trust even toward what they might regarding the Father even Himself, because it is the age of grace and the church age...it might be ok for us perhaps providentially through even the US to take the lead and maybe even be a support and/or cover too for Israel.

It is kind of anathema today on some levels of evangelicalism to suppose God might look at how worldly over the ages the church has gotten, and show just as much mercy in use with us/them as He even would with literally using Israel in "hyper" apocolyptic eschatological ways -- though she be like totally apostate in hardening. Maybe there is some mirror reflection in that. Just trying to make sense of it in gernal, amen.

But the more important details, is even as off the wall in ways I might seem to approach, I think it is of beautiful import...your care and encouragement upon @KMendel, knowing she has expressed not being very fond of Trump and all that. And in kindred spirit of that, yeah, like when I hear Trump say that the US is the only country in the world that does mail in voting...lol...I'm not exactly sure what to do with that. Like is that just him being naive in his pride? Is it to sell to the enemy, "Hey ya'll...Ima jughead?" Or maybe something else. Hard to place. Because the guy that illuminated the concept of "fake news" as a thing, certainly dabbles in his share of all that...lol. blessings.

 

[KMendel]

Hmmm...... a reply to the above post:

This last post by TCC to Hol as to my feelings regarding Donald Trump is concerning to me. I have admitted to not caring for Trump - only because Hol came right out at asked me. I've given my reasons before: I find him a voracious liar, his track record with women and perhaps children is abominable, every business he attempted he failed at while still claiming to be the most successful businessman on the planet while he still claims to know more than anyone else, including the experts. To me, he is an embarrassment around the globe in his current role. Never have we had a sitting president who has shown such a lack of decorum.

Now the last time I looked, I have a right to my opinion of him.......... just as you have a right to your opinion of him. It doesn't make me right or wrong, and it doesn't make either of you right or wrong. Time will answer that question.

So, please don't try to placate me. If there was some person in your life that you intensely disliked, and I knew that person as well and I liked them........ I would not try to change your mind............that's your perogative. , To each their own. You'd have your reasons and I'd have ,
mine. But, you don't seem to be leaving it at that. You are not going to change my mind anymore than I am going to change your minds.

So, please leave me out of your conversations between each other regarding Trump. You are overstepping. Thank you and God bless.

 

[mattfivefour]

It is an amazing time. I believe it is the time we think it might be. Although, end times pushes have been throughout history...in a postmodern era we tend to self doubt as a virtue. Which would make sense when that time might be.

But yeah, if it is right around the corner and we are witnesses of the local drift upon its actual shore, wow, what a time to be slated to be to have been alive. Wow.

Amen!!!

How God has blessed us to be here at this time!

However, it's not just to watch and see: it's to work for the kingdom as the Church Age draws to a close. This is the final ingathering of the fruit of Christ's substitutionary sacrifice during the so-called Age Of Grace. The fact is that every dealing of God with man, during every age from Adam and Eve until now, has been through grace. And it will be so during the Great Tribulation until God brings everything to a close and ushers in the Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ.

 

[Hol]

Now the last time I looked, I have a right to my opinion of him.......... just as you have a right to your opinion of him. It doesn't make me right or wrong, and it doesn't make either of you right or wrong. Time will answer that question.

You are so right sis

I won’t draw you into any further Trump conversations.

@TCC, thank you brother for your tender-hearted interaction.

 

[dwb]

Israel is indeed ready for peace. So much of their GNP and efforts are focused on security instead of it's citizens, infrastructure, etc.. One reason why they will fall for the AC.

 

[TCC]

Hmmm...... a reply to the above post:

This last post by TCC to Hol as to my feelings regarding Donald Trump is concerning to me. I have admitted to not caring for Trump - only because Hol came right out at asked me. I've given my reasons before: I find him a voracious liar, his track record with women and perhaps children is abominable, every business he attempted he failed at while still claiming to be the most successful businessman on the planet while he still claims to know more than anyone else, including the experts. To me, he is an embarrassment around the globe in his current role. Never have we had a sitting president who has shown such a lack of decorum.

Now the last time I looked, I have a right to my opinion of him.......... just as you have a right to your opinion of him. It doesn't make me right or wrong, and it doesn't make either of you right or wrong. Time will answer that question.

So, please don't try to placate me. If there was some person in your life that you intensely disliked, and I knew that person as well and I liked them........ I would not try to change your mind............that's your perogative. , To each their own. You'd have your reasons and I'd have ,
mine. But, you don't seem to be leaving it at that. You are not going to change my mind anymore than I am going to change your minds.

So, please leave me out of your conversations between each other regarding Trump. You are overstepping. Thank you and God bless.

I will keep that in mind @KMendel. And apology if it comes across that way. I view our forum as family. So in a sense it was somewhat playful. But in no way whatsoever were my intentions to change your mind or placate. Love hopes all things. So I will agree not to mention you in reference to Trump but in so also hope that you consider to view this incident perhaps more prayerfully as intended. A) We are family. B) There is "0" desire for you to change your mind about Trump.

The bulk of my post was meant for Hollie. Not so much for @KMendel. It was an encouragement toward the sentiment of care toward those with differing views without one ounce of trying to change their minds and being ok with that. Even to the point of blessing them in their diffences of views. Because that is the loving and mature thing to be about in the body of Christ. As far as I am aware of. So it was more of an encouragement of "appreciating" differences. Not placating or trying to change peoples minds.

I believe I am going on two years now being on this forum. And many of my views are akin to this forum's eschatology. But I have some pretty strong views in contrary to all of evangelicalism and this forum on some points eschatologically. Areas I have been passionate about and shared on this forum a lot regarding. It is no secret. But that was not to change the forum's mind. In fact, if this forum changed their mind and went with my eschatological views, I don't believe I would stay here. Because I like the diversity and the contrast. And for the sake of my own sanity to remain in check, I absolutely don't want this forum to agree with me. That would seem to me to be kind of stepford and echo-chamber like.

Ending on a blessed note @KMendel, I appreciate your concerns of Trump. And I honor your differences. I wish you godspeed. And will honor not mentioning you in regards to Trump. Blessings.

 

[KMendel]

Thank you to both Hol and TCC. I appreciate that you consider my feelings on this matter.
I think one has to be very careful when posting something "in jest"...........one person's sense of humor does not always mesh
with how another reads it. I did not see the humor. But, I understand that happens sometime. So, all is well. Let's move on to other things.
Love you both.

 

[soli_Deo_gloria]

It is an amazing time. I believe it is the time we think it might be. Although, end times pushes have been throughout history...in a postmodern era we tend to self doubt as a virtue. Which would make sense when that time might be.

But yeah, if it is right around the corner and we are witnesses of the local drift upon its actual shore, wow, what a time to be slated to be to have been alive. Wow.

So in thinking upon your post Margery, yeah, 2/3rds stood out to me now in an unusual way. I believe the exact reference of that concerning Israel will be the remnant of Ez 38 is my take. If true, and Ez 38 does come on the eve or just at the start of the tribulation period, then it would make sense that the 1/3 that survive will go through it. Which kind of dog whistles me over to Rev 12's 1/3. Almost like God is playing poker...lol. His 1/3 vs the devils 1/3.

In my eschatology I view Seals, then Trumpets, all in first half. And only bowls in the second. There might not be any relation at all to the Trumpets 1/3 and Israel, but it would make sense that if the 1/3 of Israel are Ez 38 survivors, then they would be the 1/3 tested under the Trumepts 1/3rd theme...leading to the climax, as I would understand it, of the AC proper (if there is such a term...lol). And then out of all of that I would believe it is the 144k that highlight the second half.

Just musing over if there might be a sense this 1/3 number used in scripture might have some interesting poetics to it. Thanks for sharing. Blessings.

How did you connect the 1/3 to Ezekiel 38? Is there Scripture that supports this?

Ezekiel 38-39 doesn’t speak about any dead among Israel; the narrative reads much more like the Exodus story where there were no casualties among the Hebrews, just the oppressors in Egypt.

 

[TCC]

How did you connect the 1/3 to Ezekiel 38? Is there Scripture that supports this?

Ezekiel 38-39 doesn’t speak about any dead among Israel; the narrative reads much more like the Exodus story where there were no casualties among the Hebrews, just the oppressors in Egypt.

Thanks for this post, Soli. I appreciate your pointing this out. It is true there is no mention of Israel suffering any loss in Ez 38 and 39. We don't actually hear that stated though much today. So your observation is helpful in maintaining biblical integrity. In this respect, it could be said that Zech 14 may not be mirroring Zech 12 (where there is no mention of Israeli loss). Although both chapters seem to imply an awakening upon the earth as the thousand year reign of Christ cometh over the land.

So it is difficult to place Zech, at least I believe it is. Many will use Zech 12 for today, while it would seem most biblical scholars tend to see it during the very last days of the tribulation. I bring all this up because I am not sure how Zech 12-14 actually works holistically. But it would seem there is a future time for Zech 14:2. If so, where might that fit? So I think your clarifying that there is no loss of life in Israel indicated in Ez 38 is excellent. For I believe there is much to consider there. But for me, I guess blending Zech 14:2 with Ez 38-39 is my version of Bill Salus--ing prophecy (mixing things together into an elaborate prophetic stew of sorts).

I like Bill Salus, but I believe his notions on Psalm 83 are not accurate. I don't see Psalm 83 as a prophecy. But even if I did, I would believe its fulfillment already had taken place from 1948-1967--ish timeframe. But Bill pulls verses from everywhere to complete quite an elaborate quilting of verses to understand end time sequencing. I just do like a dumbed down version of that I guess, lol. Where it would seem to me Zech 14 would best fit in Ez 38 for me. Obviously this could be a wild stretch. But if so, where might you consider Zech 14 belongs? Where would you place Zech 12?

I recently read a commentary about Ez 38 not occuring until the gog and Magog war after the 1,000 reign of Christ because of Rev 20:8. But to me, how after 1,000 years of Christ ruling over the earth result in Israel at the end finally understanding He is their God? That, to me, would be an impossible placing of Ez 38. For that reason alone. But for many others too. Speaking of commentaries, I have posted an often "go to" site of the generic commentary views acceptable for consideration.

Zechariah 14:2 Commentaries: For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the c

I would like to point attention to, for example, what Pulpit Commentary there does with Zech 14. Not that it makes my case for me. For I believe your notice of Israel suffering nothing in Ez 38 is not just a fair point. But a verifiable potential constraint upon the text. Not an absolute one. But the omitting of Israeli tragedy in Ez 38-39 (if there is any omittion) might be for the purpose of its chapter placement and purpose of display by Ezekiel. They show for example that in Ez 36 and 37 that Israel comes back to their land (which I believe is 1948). And since then, Israel has suffered a lot of loss. But we don't see any of that in Ez 36 and 37.

Please note, that Ez 36 and 37 to me seem to be an overarching view of what God is doing with them. So those two chapters to me are not meant to go from point A to point Z. For example, it is not the sense I get that Ez 37 starts where Ez 36 ends of. But rather, I believe it 36 and 37 overlay. And the ending of 36 and the ending of 37 climaxes into the 1,000 year reign poetically together. Then we see Ez 38 and 39. Then we see Ez 40-48 about the future 1,000 year reign temple. So the trajectory and drive of those later chapters in Ez all seem thematic of one thing: How Israel turns back to God, and what that path looks like as an overview. WITH a hyper focus on their being blessed by God. Even though the Jews underwent massive Nazi oppression before becoming a nation again. And even though, they would be under constant assault for decades coming back to their homeland. None of that is the focus. Oct 7th is not the focus. The focus in those chapters is God being faithful to His word and character toward them. That might not be THE answer as to why there is no mention of Israeli loss in Ez 38/39. And I invite anyone who might have a view on that share. For prophecy is somewhat nuanced and complicated.

I don't think this satisfactorally answered your question. It does not do so for me by any stretch. I believe Ez 38 and its huge appearance to be the second seal (as Bible Commentator Andy Woods would also hold this view), as perhaps hieroglyphic--ize as the Great Sword mentioned in 38:21, as an emblematic inditifier. Well I hope some of this might make sense. In any event, even if not, I appreciate you bringing this up. For it is healthy to consider what if Ez 38 and 39 have no Israeli life loss? I don't believe enough bible commentators deal with that. So excellent point. One I will chew on for quite a while I am sure. Blessings.

 

[soli_Deo_gloria]

Thanks for this post, Soli. I appreciate your pointing this out. It is true there is no mention of Israel suffering any loss in Ez 38 and 39. We don't actually hear that stated though much today. So your observation is helpful in maintaining biblical integrity. In this respect, it could be said that Zech 14 may not be mirroring Zech 12 (where there is no mention of Israeli loss). Although both chapters seem to imply an awakening upon the earth as the thousand year reign of Christ cometh over the land.

So it is difficult to place Zech, at least I believe it is. Many will use Zech 12 for today, while it would seem most biblical scholars tend to see it during the very last days of the tribulation. I bring all this up because I am not sure how Zech 12-14 actually works holistically. But it would seem there is a future time for Zech 14:2. If so, where might that fit? So I think your clarifying that there is no loss of life in Israel indicated in Ez 38 is excellent. For I believe there is much to consider there. But for me, I guess blending Zech 14:2 with Ez 38-39 is my version of Bill Salus--ing prophecy (mixing things together into an elaborate prophetic stew of sorts).

I like Bill Salus, but I believe his notions on Psalm 83 are not accurate. I don't see Psalm 83 as a prophecy. But even if I did, I would believe its fulfillment already had taken place from 1948-1967--ish timeframe. But Bill pulls verses from everywhere to complete quite an elaborate quilting of verses to understand end time sequencing. I just do like a dumbed down version of that I guess, lol. Where it would seem to me Zech 14 would best fit in Ez 38 for me. Obviously this could be a wild stretch. But if so, where might you consider Zech 14 belongs? Where would you place Zech 12?

I recently read a commentary about Ez 38 not occuring until the gog and Magog war after the 1,000 reign of Christ because of Rev 20:8. But to me, how after 1,000 years of Christ ruling over the earth result in Israel at the end finally understanding He is their God? That, to me, would be an impossible placing of Ez 38. For that reason alone. But for many others too. Speaking of commentaries, I have posted an often "go to" site of the generic commentary views acceptable for consideration.

Zechariah 14:2 Commentaries: For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the c

I would like to point attention to, for example, what Pulpit Commentary there does with Zech 14. Not that it makes my case for me. For I believe your notice of Israel suffering nothing in Ez 38 is not just a fair point. But a verifiable potential constraint upon the text. Not an absolute one. But the omitting of Israeli tragedy in Ez 38-39 (if there is any omittion) might be for the purpose of its chapter placement and purpose of display by Ezekiel. They show for example that in Ez 36 and 37 that Israel comes back to their land (which I believe is 1948). And since then, Israel has suffered a lot of loss. But we don't see any of that in Ez 36 and 37.

Please note, that Ez 36 and 37 to me seem to be an overarching view of what God is doing with them. So those two chapters to me are not meant to go from point A to point Z. For example, it is not the sense I get that Ez 37 starts where Ez 36 ends of. But rather, I believe it 36 and 37 overlay. And the ending of 36 and the ending of 37 climaxes into the 1,000 year reign poetically together. Then we see Ez 38 and 39. Then we see Ez 40-48 about the future 1,000 year reign temple. So the trajectory and drive of those later chapters in Ez all seem thematic of one thing: How Israel turns back to God, and what that path looks like as an overview. WITH a hyper focus on their being blessed by God. Even though the Jews underwent massive Nazi oppression before becoming a nation again. And even though, they would be under constant assault for decades coming back to their homeland. None of that is the focus. Oct 7th is not the focus. The focus in those chapters is God being faithful to His word and character toward them. That might not be THE answer as to why there is no mention of Israeli loss in Ez 38/39. And I invite anyone who might have a view on that share. For prophecy is somewhat nuanced and complicated.

I don't think this satisfactorally answered your question. It does not do so for me by any stretch. I believe Ez 38 and its huge appearance to be the second seal (as Bible Commentator Andy Woods would also hold this view), as perhaps hieroglyphic--ize as the Great Sword mentioned in 38:21, as an emblematic inditifier. Well I hope some of this might make sense. In any event, even if not, I appreciate you bringing this up. For it is healthy to consider what if Ez 38 and 39 have no Israeli life loss? I don't believe enough bible commentators deal with that. So excellent point. One I will chew on for quite a while I am sure. Blessings.

1.
I cannot comment much on Zechariah 12 and 14, but if they refer to the period known as The Day of the Lord, then as far as my understanding goes, it can be a very long stretch of time that may begin somewhere in the proximity of the Rapture to the end of the Millennial Kingdom.

2.
Blending Zechariah with Ezekiel 38-39 is confusing; what exactly in the Bible points us to the mixing of the different passages in both Zechariah and Ezekiel? What’s the scriptural (not books written by various authors) connection?

3.
I have not read anything written by B.S. I noticed many believers in the rapture mention his Psalm 83 idea. But from everything these believers wrote about it I noticed it didn’t speak to me at all.
As you already pointed out, why is that particular psalm a prophesied war? Just because he happened to write much on it doesn’t mean his interpretation is scriptural. If it is, I didn’t understand it yet.

4. Ezekiel 38-39 after the Millennium is “wild”, not in a positive way, sadly. As you stated,

“how after 1,000 years of Christ ruling over the earth result in Israel at the end finally understanding He is their God? That, to me, would be an impossible placing of Ez 38.”

It is impossible for me also. Great scriptural argument.

5.
Ezekiel 36-37 (to me) culminated in 1948 when Israel officially became a nation again, but their regathering to the land began tens of years before 1948.

As far as losses in those 2 chapters, what more could they have lost?
They were already compared to a heap of dead bones. They were completely lost, dead and they were brought back to life and to their God given land.
Ezekiel 36-37 is a completely different segment in Israel’s history; the “no loss mentioned” in that segment does not compare at all with the absence of loss in Ezekiel 38-39. To me, that is comparing apples to oranges.

6.
In general, Bible prophecy can be fulfilled on more than one level, it can have more than one application throughout history.
But that doesn’t give us the green light to mix passages as we please and write a bunch of books about what we come up with.

My personal beliefs come from asking in prayer for understanding, and studying the Bible. And the Holy Spirit teaches me this way. I may not be as advanced as others, but at least I know I am on the right track.

My comments are based on what I understand so far. I cannot comment on things I don’t understand, it would be irresponsible, but at the same time I will not go with the flow of books, commentaries, conferences etc.

I pray, I ask and I trust the Lord to give me the amount of understanding He knows I need. And when I say “I ASK”, I mean it.

I did read, watch, listen to Prophecy related material because I am responsible to study for myself first the Bible, then History and, as much as possible, listen to voices out there who stick to the Bible and the teaching of the Holy Spirit.

There is a lot to learn and discern while doing that. We all know that there is a significant amount of bad information these days claiming to be sound doctrine. Sadly, most of it is not, and we must be Bereans who continually verify that what we hear and read is biblically accurate.

7.
I see Ezekiel 38-39 in extremely close proximity to the rapture. As pastor JD Farag once affirmed, the entire war can occur in less than 24 hours. And the Church would need to be raptured before the war begins. Maybe just seconds before it begins, I really cannot say for sure, but we must be out of here before the world, and specifically Israel, enters a new dispensation that looks a lot like the Old Testament, where the God of Israel intervened in Exodus-like fashion.

All this being said, my prayer is that we are all found in the Truth of God’s Word until we hear the trumpet sound, and finally see our Lord Jesus face to face in the clouds! Blessings to you and everyone else longing for Jesus’ appearing!

 

[TCC]

1.
I cannot comment much on Zechariah 12 and 14, but if they refer to the period known as The Day of the Lord, then as far as my understanding goes, it can be a very long stretch of time that may begin somewhere in the proximity of the Rapture to the end of the Millennial Kingdom.

2.
Blending Zechariah with Ezekiel 38-39 is confusing; what exactly in the Bible points us to the mixing of the different passages in both Zechariah and Ezekiel? What’s the scriptural (not books written by various authors) connection?

3.
I have not read anything written by B.S. I noticed many believers in the rapture mention his Psalm 83 idea. But from everything these believers wrote about it I noticed it didn’t speak to me at all.
As you already pointed out, why is that particular psalm a prophesied war? Just because he happened to write much on it doesn’t mean his interpretation is scriptural. If it is, I didn’t understand it yet.

4. Ezekiel 38-39 after the Millennium is “wild”, not in a positive way, sadly. As you stated,

“how after 1,000 years of Christ ruling over the earth result in Israel at the end finally understanding He is their God? That, to me, would be an impossible placing of Ez 38.”

It is impossible for me also. Great scriptural argument.

5.
Ezekiel 36-37 (to me) culminated in 1948 when Israel officially became a nation again, but their regathering to the land began tens of years before 1948.

As far as losses in those 2 chapters, what more could they have lost?
They were already compared to a heap of dead bones. They were completely lost, dead and they were brought back to life and to their God given land.
Ezekiel 36-37 is a completely different segment in Israel’s history; the “no loss mentioned” in that segment does not compare at all with the absence of loss in Ezekiel 38-39. To me, that is comparing apples to oranges.

6.
In general, Bible prophecy can be fulfilled on more than one level, it can have more than one application throughout history.
But that doesn’t give us the green light to mix passages as we please and write a bunch of books about what we come up with.

My personal beliefs come from asking in prayer for understanding, and studying the Bible. And the Holy Spirit teaches me this way. I may not be as advanced as others, but at least I know I am on the right track.

My comments are based on what I understand so far. I cannot comment on things I don’t understand, it would be irresponsible, but at the same time I will not go with the flow of books, commentaries, conferences etc.

I pray, I ask and I trust the Lord to give me the amount of understanding He knows I need. And when I say “I ASK”, I mean it.

I did read, watch, listen to Prophecy related material because I am responsible to study for myself first the Bible, then History and, as much as possible, listen to voices out there who stick to the Bible and the teaching of the Holy Spirit.

There is a lot to learn and discern while doing that. We all know that there is a significant amount of bad information these days claiming to be sound doctrine. Sadly, most of it is not, and we must be Bereans who continually verify that what we hear and read is biblically accurate.

7.
I see Ezekiel 38-39 in extremely close proximity to the rapture. As pastor JD Farag once affirmed, the entire war can occur in less than 24 hours. And the Church would need to be raptured before the war begins. Maybe just seconds before it begins, I really cannot say for sure, but we must be out of here before the world, and specifically Israel, enters a new dispensation that looks a lot like the Old Testament, where the God of Israel intervened in Exodus-like fashion.

All this being said, my prayer is that we are all found in the Truth of God’s Word until we hear the trumpet sound, and finally see our Lord Jesus face to face in the clouds! Blessings to you and everyone else longing for Jesus’ appearing!

Beautiful post. We don't think exactly alike. But we do think quite a bit alike. A tend to see Bill S in general as part of what i would see as pop Christian culture. Bill never made for me enough sense on any one point to pull me into all that would be required to line everything up as he sees it. However, what i would say is that since our God is so loving and transcendent, I would tend to think that God might use Bill S in some way because of his exposure. Not that Bill is correct necessarily. But just that Bill maybe put a fire underneath the feet of some to dive deeper.

Thanks so much brother for your 7 points. Thanks for responding with such detail. I realize this thread is Saudi normalization. But I believe this momentary detour can fit underneath that rubric. In general, I believe your concerns about blending Zech with Ezekiel are good and sound. So my hats off to you there brother. However, there is something else I would also, let's say "frame it" in rather than blend, that would tend to push the needle in the direction of potential injury to Israel during Ez 38. But before i do, one thing I believe that is a strongpoint in my overall view is the light and fluffy side of scriptural comparison mix (or compare and contrast). And that is somewhat of a simple premise:

The Book of Zechariah's correction I believe is God demonstrating to Israel and to all the world, that He is sovereign over both Israel and the world. And Zechariah looks at 8 visions which I believe are stages of future Israel from that time forward (more so than for the world). I believe that book was introduced at a time where Israel comes out of exile to learn she will face a far greater one (told in those 8 visions--along with future ramifications including some findings in Revelation). In it, I see the story of Israel through high level metaphor (or extremely nuanced metaphor). The level of metaphoric challenge in Zech, to me, is greater even than what we see in Revelation. Even though Ezekiel has advance metaphoric style used, it would seem Ezekiel's import of meaning finds its resting place a lot easier to navigate than Zechariah. So for me, even though Ezekiel has strong use of metaphor, Zachariah would seem to have a more severe case of metaphor. Just noting that along the way.

The book of Ezekiel seems to be a call to attention of Israel as an "in session" class now that God has Israel's attention in captivity. And a theatrical book pointing out their many flaws. But also used to forecast how God will honor his covenant with them in the future. The main difference is the focus in Ezekiel seems to be God providing Israel and the world a prophetic report on what to expect--from Israel being judged for her sins perspective. Whereas Zachariah doing a similar thing but through like a hopeful future perspective (a more refined focus upon Israel as the nation through which the line of Messiah wil come...not looking so much at all the other nations to the degree Ezkiel does).Ezekiel saw the destruction of the temple. Zachariah saw the rebuilding on the second temple. And hope toward Messiah.

So I mention the above for the sense to note that we do notice that God uses both Ezekiel and Zachariah to tell the future story of Israel in the latter days. And since both lay out to do that, although there are problems in trying to overlap them in forced ways, it could be as much of a mistake not to see where or how they might relate to one another since they are exile bookends (one from the start--class is in session perspective / and one from the "now go out and build a temple" perspective). So we could say that to not strive on some level to consider connection or interactivity in books laid out for us to on some level consider, would be antithetical to how God has shown to communicate to us. We can differ on how that looks. But that it does look like that on some level means "something." It would have to. Because the nature of God toward us is like that.

. . . . .

THE EZ 38 FRAME
I believe the strongest framing for Ez 38 I am aware of is what we see in 1 Thes 5. The language of woman in labor, to me, resonates too loudly there for me not to see it as a echo of Rev 12. As far as timing. The sudden destruction is generally understood in 1 Thes 5 as the world being trapped here for the tribulation. But because of chapter 5 clearly outlining a pretrib rapture contrast, to make "'sudden destruction" not about Israel I believe is what happens to the human mind after centuries of commentaries and effects that nuances upon cultures through have in how we in our day and age think upon things. Since Israel was not a nation for centuries, the commentary lean was absolutely in the direction of replacement theology. And even though, to the glory of God, there is a very strong church presence that is not about replacement theology, I believe seeing "sudden destruction" as not Israel to be an offspring of replacement theology we typically embrace on some levels today.

To be fair, I have my doubts. lol. I mean as passionate as I am that 1 Thes 5 contrast is relating to Israeli destruction (because of pregnancy language used), I'm not absolute about it. I just have not seen good enough arguments to talk me into a different direction on that. We tend in our day to make "peace and safety" about the UN. Or about the gentile world. But that language also lines up with the state of Israel at the time of Ez 38. And since Israel has been back, there does not seem to be any "peace and safety" for them...until the Abraham Accords period and Saudi potential normalization. Even though I used to be seeing things like peace and safety being a UN thing but don't look upon it that way so much now, and even though I think evangelicalism has become too myopic for our own good (overly focusing on the dark to come as it seems vs the light God is shinning in our day and age), and even though our focus much on what everything means according to the tribulation instead of what it still yet means in the age of grace before it, I don't let any of that suggest to me that I have to be right on this. I leave room for that (that even though, I could be mistaken), amen.

But my point here is that church evolved views over the centuries can make it easy to miss subtle and not so subtle nuances in all of that. So in one way, I would go as far as to say that although I don't believe the church in America primarily sees herself as replacing Israel, in how we parse out eschatology whith such certain focus of what things mean today (as though we have it most correct) though, it would seem what plays out in the church is ideas about the tribulation we can connect to today. And although I think there is some good and even great in so doing, I don't believe, from what I have seen, the church wonders enough off with her views that might be re[;acement theology proper (by the church view potentially being off, I am not speaking of you dear brother...just in general from what I have seen). We generally tend to as a church in end time interest lean more into what this or that means in relation to the night. In one way, I kind of believe that the reason the children of light is being pointed out in 1 Thes 5 (for the literal age it is for) is because of course God knew we would evolve to a certain level of confusion potentially. And the emphasis placed on "light" perhaps to be somewhat poetically speaking to our age to consider what things look like through children of light focused on light. It is human nature to err. Amen. But I preface all this because to me, this is the absolute strongest frame for Ez 38 potential I believe (the children of light vs. that other flock that remained and got sacked).

How is it that 1 Thes 5 language about birth pangs might not likely be referencing Israel? What is the proof of that? I realize this is not the best exegetical type question to ask. But if the 70th week is Israel's 70th week, and 1 Thes is speaking of a rapture that occurs (which it looks like it is or might be--in relation to chapter 4) seemingly on the brink of destruction, is that contrast more about the church being the light and the world being in darkness...or the church being light and "the rubric of the 70th week highlighted?" This may sound odd to consider like this. But I ask it this way to help perhaps flesh out some ID markers of how our views upon the last days may have been impacted over the centuries. What we don't hear a lot about, at least I have not, is how the tribulation is the 70th week. The lean seems to be more sensationalized as the week of the antichrist. Or the deceptions to watch out for approaching an age of deception deception deception. At least this has been kind of my experience in what it can seem or come across like. But we don't hear how the tribulation is the 70th week and what that means to the tribulation age as well as what it means for us today (in a 70th week type perspective).

For example there is a lot of focus, from what I have seen, where the watcher movement sees the Abrhama Accords as the covenant the AC will strenghten. YET, very little is shared about that I have seen in how the Abraham Accords might be that which empowers Israel to peace and safety Ez 38 mode. Have you seen this? Or does what I am saying make sense as how the Accords are generally approached? Its all about the AC and the tribultion. Its not about Ez 38 nor about Israel...unless...the church's view that Israel should not make deals with other countries because of our well intended takes on the Abrahamic Covenant genuinely still in play. To me it almost feels like EZ 38 (being the biggest portion of prophecy on any one specific time anchored prophecy given) is clearly unfolding in front of us daily...and yet what seems to take more of the spotlight is how to understand our day in ight of Revealtion not Ez 38. Which is curious to say the least. Almost like Ez 38 is the tree of life being guarded by angels from church sober consideration. It's actually pretty wild to watch. In the end, I may be way way off too. But I am just trying to give examples of how it seems to me that the church has to a degree been conditioned or seasoned with ways to process today that may not lend to best sensativities of prophetic unfolding.

So I guess I would just say that if 1 Thes 5 is talking about Ez 38 occuring just after the rapture, then the amries against Israel in Ez 38 seem to have some effect as to be considered a destructive force. And since it occurs at the earliest point approaching tribulation, it would make sense that God take a 3rd of Israel through the tribulation obstacle course. So for me its not just trying to line up Zachariah with Ezekiel. Its the Revelatoin 12 framing for 1st Thes 5. If that makes sense? We may likely not come to agree. But in any event, thanks for the consideration. Blessings.

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

Beautiful post. We don't think exactly alike. But we do think quite a bit alike. A tend to see Bill S in general as part of what i would see as pop Christian culture. Bill never made for me enough sense on any one point to pull me into all that would be required to line everything up as he sees it. However, what i would say is that since our God is so loving and transcendent, I would tend to think that God might use Bill S in some way because of his exposure. Not that Bill is correct necessarily. But just that Bill maybe put a fire underneath the feet of some to dive deeper.

Thanks so much brother for your 7 points. Thanks for responding with such detail. I realize this thread is Saudi normalization. But I believe this momentary detour can fit underneath that rubric. In general, I believe your concerns about blending Zech with Ezekiel are good and sound. So my hats off to you there brother. However, there is something else I would also, let's say "frame it" in rather than blend, that would tend to push the needle in the direction of potential injury to Israel during Ez 38. But before i do, one thing I believe that is a strongpoint in my overall view is the light and fluffy side of scriptural comparison mix (or compare and contrast). And that is somewhat of a simple premise:

The Book of Zechariah's correction I believe is God demonstrating to Israel and to all the world, that He is sovereign over both Israel and the world. And Zechariah looks at 8 visions which I believe are stages of future Israel from that time forward (more so than for the world). I believe that book was introduced at a time where Israel comes out of exile to learn she will face a far greater one (told in those 8 visions--along with future ramifications including some findings in Revelation). In it, I see the story of Israel through high level metaphor (or extremely nuanced metaphor). The level of metaphoric challenge in Zech, to me, is greater even than what we see in Revelation. Even though Ezekiel has advance metaphoric style used, it would seem Ezekiel's import of meaning finds its resting place a lot easier to navigate than Zechariah. So for me, even though Ezekiel has strong use of metaphor, Zachariah would seem to have a more severe case of metaphor. Just noting that along the way.

The book of Ezekiel seems to be a call to attention of Israel as an "in session" class now that God has Israel's attention in captivity. And a theatrical book pointing out their many flaws. But also used to forecast how God will honor his covenant with them in the future. The main difference is the focus in Ezekiel seems to be God providing Israel and the world a prophetic report on what to expect--from Israel being judged for her sins perspective. Whereas Zachariah doing a similar thing but through like a hopeful future perspective (a more refined focus upon Israel as the nation through which the line of Messiah wil come...not looking so much at all the other nations to the degree Ezkiel does).Ezekiel saw the destruction of the temple. Zachariah saw the rebuilding on the second temple. And hope toward Messiah.

So I mention the above for the sense to note that we do notice that God uses both Ezekiel and Zachariah to tell the future story of Israel in the latter days. And since both lay out to do that, although there are problems in trying to overlap them in forced ways, it could be as much of a mistake not to see where or how they might relate to one another since they are exile bookends (one from the start--class is in session perspective / and one from the "now go out a build a temple" perspective). So we could say that to not strive on some level to consider connection or interactivity in books laid out for us to on some level consider, would be antithetical to how God has shown to communicate to us. We can differ on how that looks. But that it does look like that on some level means "something." It would have to. Because the nature of God toward us is like that.

. . . . .

THE EZ 38 FRAME
I believe the strongest framing for Ez 38 I am aware of is what we see in 1 Thes 5. The language of woman in labor, to me, resonates too loudly there for me not to see it as a echo of Rev 12. As far as timing. The sudden destruction is generally understood in 1 Thes 5 as the world being trapped here for the tribulation. But because of chapter 5 clearly outlining a pretrib rapture contrast, to make "'sudden destruction" not about Israel I believe is what happens to the human mind after centuries of commentaries and effects that nuances upon cultures through have in how we in our day and age think upon things. Since Israel was not a nation for centuries, the commentary lean was absolutely in the direction of replacement theology. And even though, to the glory of God, there is a very strong church presence that is not about replacement theology, I believe seeing "sudden destruction" as not Israel to be an offspring of replacement theology we typically embrace on some levels today.

To be fair, I have my doubts. lol. I mean as passionate as I am that 1 Thes 5 contrast is relating to Israeli destruction (because of pregnancy language used), I'm not absolute about it. I just have not seen good enough arguments to talk me into a different direction on that. We tend in our day to make "peace and safety" about the UN. Or about the gentile world. But that language also lines up with the state of Israel at the time of Ez 38. And since Israel has been back, there does not seem to be any "peace and safety" for them...until the Abraham Accords period and Saudi potential normalization. Even though I used to be seeing things like peace and safety being a UN thing but don't look upon it that way so much now, and even though I think evangelicalism has become too myopic for our own good (overly focusing on the dark to come as it seems vs the light God is shinning in our day and age), and even though our focus much on what everything means according to the tribulation instead of what it still yet means in the age of grace before it, I don't let any of that suggest to me that I have to be right on this. I leave room for that, amen.

But my point here is that church evolved views over the centuries can make it easy to miss subtle and not so subtle nuances in all of that. So in one way, I would go as far as to say that although I don't believe the church in America primarily sees herself as replacing Israel, in how we parce out eschatology which such certain focus of what things mean today (as though we have it most correct) though, it would seem what plays out in the church is ideas about the tribulation we can connect to today. And although I think there is some good and even great in so doing, I don't believe, from what I have seen, the church wonders enough how off her views might be (not speaking of you dear brother...just in general from what I have seen). We generally tend to as a church in end time interest lean more into what this or that means in relation to the night. In one way, I kind of believe that the reason the children of light is being pointed out in 1 Thes 5 (for the literal age it is for) is because of course God knew we would evolve to a certain level of consion potentially. And the emphasis placed on "light" perhaps to be somewhat poetically speaking to our age to consider what things look like through children of light focused on light. It is human nature to err. Amen. But I preface all this because to me, this is the absolute strongest frame for Ez 38 potential I believe.

How is it that 1 Thes 5 language about birth pangs not likely referencing Israel? What is the proof of that? I realize this is not the best exegetical type question to ask. But if the 70th week is Israel's 70th week, and 1 Thes is speaking of a rapture that occurs (which it looks like it is) on the brink of destruction, is that contrast more about the church being the light and the world being in darkness...or the church being light and "the rubric of the 70th week highlighted?" This may sound odd to consider like this. But I ask it this way to help perhaps flesh out some ID markers of how our views upon the last days may have been impacted over the centuries. What we don't hear a lot about, at least I have not, is how the tribulation is the 70th week. The lean seems to be more sensationalize as the week of the antichrist. Or the deceptions to watch out for approaching an age of deception deception deception. At least this has been kind of my experience in what it can seem or come across like. But we don't hear how the tribulation is the 70th week and what that means to the tribulation age as well as what it means for us today.

For example there is a lot of focus, from what I have seen, where the watcher movement sees the Abrhama Accords as the covenant the AC will strenghten. YET, very little is shared about that I have seen in how the Abraham Accords might be that which empowers Israel to peace and safety Ez 38 mode. Have you seen this? Or does what I am saying make sense as how the Accords are generally approached? Its all about the AC and the tribultion. Its not about Ez 38 nor about Israel...unless...the church's view that Israel should not make deals with other countries because of our well intended takes on the Abrahamic Covenant genuinely still in play. To me it almost feels like EZ 38 (being the biggest portion of prophecy on any one specific time anchored prophecy given is clearly unfolding in front of us daily...and yet what seems to take more of the spotlight is how to understand our day in ight of Revealtion not Ez 38. Which is curious to say the least. Almost like Ez 38 is the tree of life being guarded by angels from church sober consideration. It's actually pretty wild to watch. In the end, I may be way way off too. But I am just trying to give examples of how it seems to me that the church hato a degree been conditioned or seasoned with ways to process today that may not lend to best sensativities of prophetic unfolding.

So I guess I would just say that if 1 Thes 5 is talking about Ez 38 occuring just after the rapture, then the amries against Israel in Ez 38 seem to have some effect as to be considered a destructive force. And since it occurs at the earliest point approaching tribulation, it would make sense that God take a 3rd of Israel through the tribulation abstical course. So for me its not just trying to line up Zachariah with Ezekiel. Its the Revelatoin 12 framing for 1st Thes 5. If that makes sense? We may likely not come to agree. But in any event, thanks for the consideration. Blessings.

In my humblle low opinion, I'm starting to lean towards the argument that the peace and safety statement is a reference to to the consequence of Israel signing the antichrist peace treaty rather than it being a reference to the rapture.

 

[TCC]

In my humblle low opinion, I'm starting to lean towards the argument that the peace and safety statement is a reference to to the consequence of Israel signing the antichrist peace treaty rather than it being a reference to the rapture.

Pretty interesting view. Thanks for sharing your perspective brother. The contrast between children of light not being caught in the sudden destruction seems to imply they won't be here though, right? Although we see that peace and safety is linked to "their" destruction, that moment compares those that will be here and the children of the light not be affected by it, as i understand it. In what way though does children of light not being caught by destruction relate? I mean like, does it not appear that in some way the children of light won't be here for the destruction? Or how might it differ in ways you are thinking? Thanks and blessings

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

Pretty interesting view. Thanks for sharing your perspective brother. The contrast between children of light not being caught in the sudden destruction seems to imply they won't be here though, right? Although we see that peace and safety is linked to "their" destruction, that moment compares those that will be here and the children of the light not be affected by it, as i understand it. In what way though does children of light not being caught by destruction relate? I mean like, does it not appear that in some way the children of light won't be here for the destruction? Or how might it differ in ways you are thinking? Thanks and blessings

Yeah and there's my sort of connundrum why i'm not 100% on my opinion:

- Are the children of light grace age believers ,tribulation believers or faithful Jews who didn't pledge allegiance to the antichrist as day of the lord is mentioned in the passage as well and that reference is usually associated with the tribulation?

- Lots of end of times teachers use the statement of "When they say peace and safety, sudden destruction will come upon them? As some sort of magical genie statement that will trigger the rapture.i've heard this statement a million times from UN meetings and yet here we all are?

To me it makes more sense if that statement of the verse relates to Israel putting false hope in the Antichrist and then destruction comes upon them n terms of the Antichrist then backflipping on the deal and then beginning to persecute the Jews.

- My final reason why i'm not fully committed to the opinion and why i'm sorta conflicyed is i might be tryna fit things in where they don't apply (Either conscience or Holy spirit echoing this in my head)

 

[TCC]

Thank you brother. You make it easy for one to put themselves in your shoes view. The caution makes sense. Especially after the sensationalism we constantly endure. Amen. For what it is worth should the Lord use in anyway helpful, I'm probably the biggest Rev 12 card carrier there likely is. In general there is a tendency to stay away from the trap of seeing it say perhaps too much. But ironically, as one who favors Rev 12 in ways, there is one like minded concern I would share with you.

To me, Rev 12 is the strongest pretrib rapture passage there is. However, having said that, my view's weakness is prone to a similar dilemma you share. Which timeframe is that exactly talking about? Most seem to put it in the middle of the trib i recon because of what they tend to do with the woman and Joseph's dream. And the child ascending Christ decades earlier (even though a "sign"...a future sign) ascending. I'm pretty confident it is not that. Even in MacArthur's commentary, he holds a more traditional "Christ's ascension" view for the child ascending. But then, in almost the same breath believes the dragon kicked out of heaven (also in that chapter) is because of the rapture. Which makes a lot of sense to me. But Macarthur seems to be oblivious that if the red dragon is kicked out of heaven because of the rapture, there "may" be a rapture passage staring him in his face (while alive...still seems surreal, his passing).

So the dilemma I get stuck with even in my use of Rev 12 as a rapture passage is that if it is a rapture passage it does something i am not exactly comfortable with. It has the dragon going after the woman hunting her down right after (at least in the storyboard imagery). One then could draw from that that the rapture is at the midpoint because of that. And that led me to the scariest few days i had while trying to undo the 7th trumpet rapture view we don't hear all that much about, but as a run for its "apparent" value, is likely the most probable biblically if pretrib becomes mistaken. I don't think it is. But in the danger zone sense, it could technically line up with the two witnesses ascension timing. Which would infer the church meets the AC.

I don't see scripture as a whole supporting that. But mention it to demonstrate how I can and do track with your concerns in 1 Thes 5. The upside, however, is how it is robust though on its own. The image of the woman in Rev 12 is her in birth pain anguish. And then the ascension. As Is 66:8 esteems Israel's return as rather painless and instant. It would seem, alternatively where her birth pangs were not (yet having gone through the holocaust) existing in the formation of the nation of Israel a new, it would appear the entrance into the tribulation to be more certainly her dealings before the AC gone rogue be a bit more than birth pangs. Unless the baby in that analogy is the 1,000 year reign rather than the heaviest portion of the tribulation birthed upon that people.

As I look at the varying angels though, the one that stands out the most for me is the robust link between Rev 12 and 1 Thes 5 (language that the children of light are not headed for the thief in the night moment (which according to Rev 16, could extend as far out as Armageddon). But just in my own thinking the birth pangs in 1 Thes 5 seem to likely correlate to the birth pangs in Rev 12. I believe the Rev 12 sign is for seal judgement cycle, but I don't know anyone else who shares that view...lol. Yet, if it might be, then it would likely be that the rapture occurs in reference to seals. And if so, we are not left with a ton of pregnancy language to do much else with I reckon. And if 1 Thes 5 is a Rev 12 match to me, its not the peace and safety all that much that would be the rapture tell, as far as i can tell. But rather the season of it that more so might. If Ez 38 is a back loaded prophetic shepherding concept and lead into the tribulation zone approximation, then several things line up. Even so, just because on one hand it could look that way. It does not mean we might not be missing something else huge enough to alter what seems laid out in simplicity.

So for me I reckon the tie breaker would be the sense in which Ez 38 unfolding becomes a stronger age of grace end time watcher piece than how we might understand to apply Rev timing. In that sense, and in that worldview, it would seem to be most true that the thing to watch is swiss watch accuracy of Ez 38 more so than the peace and safety mode we often most lean toward. Further irony might be that when we are burned out on "peace and safety" as in the UN, the real peace and safety could ironically emerge at a time not exactly expected. Although, seeing what we are unfolding, Israel coming into a season of Abrahamic Accords peace mode, should not or really be a surprise. As it has been unfolding at the speed of one running underwater. So in one way i would imagine as we burn ourselves out watching the world, Israel's significance blossoming forth in similar respect might seem a bigger concern than the age forming has it for such a time as this. And even because of that, come also at a time we think it likely won't come.

In that particular view which I share, it would be a view that factors in the sensationalizing as a social conditioner that could either numb or underscore. I understand how it could numb us...I've been there a few times myself. But the eerie sense and potential of peace and safety being an overture through UN sensationalism, is that it could also be understood as an inversed echo of the real concerning Israel eventually. Now, of course that may just be sensationalism and we can stop there. But it would just seem to me that the UN inverted echo (if the case) could very much also be a mercy from God as a heads up. Even as i would see the Rev 12 sign as a heads-up of sorts. If that might by chance have been 2017. And if so, much of prophecy would seem to fulfill in tandem with "you've got to be kidding me" end time burnout. Not that you are burnt out. Just that we know it frustrates a lot of people. To the extend for some it becomes a bit difficult to care to watch as much with so many false flags as the norm. But again, that could be a seasoning by design. I think it is, but I do also leave open the consideration of others such as yourself and your own struggles of with your view. So yeah just wanted to follow that up with some sumation of thought. And apprecaite your sharing your view with us from the heart. Amen