TCC
Well-known
Hi Margery. As Matt 24, 2 Tim, and Revelation details the end times as dark and mired in evil, yes. I'm not saying it has not gotten worse. In the West we see how child mutilation has become a protection (even enforcement) of the state, speech hate laws against the bible even, and extreme love of self have gone down. We see Epstein and Diddy, and know the level to which evil we live in. And no doubt it has increased. America pumping out porn throughout the internet arteries adulterating the world like never before. I am not saying evil has not increased. For it has.
In an age where a world system can distort a pandemic to prep for a global reset and lie to the world ongoing is indication dear sister we are in an extremely deceptive age. Biblical this is what we are told will unfold. And so it has. Matt 24's "See that you not be deceived" means what, in general? The context was Jesus telling the disciples about the end in relation to "not one stone will be left upon another" evidence of the end of Judiasm. And the disciples asked Jesus about that time. There is an exegetical link with the temple being destroyed in 70 AD and the disciples understanding of the end (since they knew Jesus to be the Messiah they were asking about that sense of end/in contrast to the zealot view of their day that Messiah would overthrow the Roman government in the 1st century). That is important to keep in mind I believe because the answer Jesus gives the disciples there places His context in the tribulation period. Yes there are mentions of event before such as WW1 and WW2 (both brought Israel much closer to realizing their land in the middle east, interesting to note how that highlights the generation).
Do not be deceived there = false messiahs. This statement in Matt 24 is mentioned three times. V4, 11, and 24. Verse 24 in knee deep in the second half of the tribulation. With this context in mind, it somewhat paints the picture of "how not to miss the next big-time opportunity of Messiah." Since Israel as a whole failed in the first century hugely. It could almost be seen to be a warning against taking the mark, I believe. Because what Israel was about to experience in the first century was a 2000 year diaspora. When the AC and the mark come, it will be forever if they reject their messiah in that way at the end. That is in general how it reads to me. But even if that is not super correct, at miminal it is stated in reference to false messiahs. There it does not use deception to describe a general motif of deception coming from all walks of life. Just in regards to Messiah.
In 2 Thes we see the epitome of that in the lying false wonders of the AC when he has been fully empowered supernaturally. It will be so bad even God will send a strong delusion regarding that. But what is what I would consider a pop-culture view of that today in evengelicalim is the common tendency to pull things from the tribulation era into the age of grace as a form of sensationalizing. Which by so doing grants stage presence, clicks, interests, and significance in ministries that traffic in such a way. Some would even see COVID episode as the strong delusion. Pulling things in the tribulation and offering them to explain today in the age of grace. Margery, no doubt dear sister that are age in more deceptive and evil than previous eras. Amen. I am not saying its not. I just want to make that clear. But in the midst of that, we also in the church have the tendency to sensationalize. And dear sister, that is hard for me to say. I mean, its not that some of those concerns are not valid. For things have gotten worse. I am just trying to point out here though that along with evil having increased in our day, we also tend to sensationalize that. And I believe that does tend to send confusion signals. a
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As for Laodicea era, you might have ran into some of my views on that in our forum over the many months. But perhaps not. My common statements about our Laodicean age typical gets a small amount of push back. Not because there is disagreement that there is some form of a Loadicean church here among us now. But because of the all encompassing motif I give it. You may think by your statements, I don't consider Laodicea today. But that is simply not the case. I have even gotten push back on this form in small measure because of how generously I apply that term for today.
My view on our Laodicean age is that I see of course WOF and Prosperity Gospel etc as certainly candidates. I'm sure some are saved by accident in those movements. But in general, those outliers I typically don't even think of as the church. Because it is as much a different gospel as cults use. So we would not say for instance that the Jehovah Witnesses are Loadicea. We would see them as not even the church. And we would be correct. With groups like NAR it might bit a bit harder to make that case because in some of those camps the gospel could addicently find its way to a person. But we know those movements are not the mainstream real church. So in general what you might consider Laodicea, I don't even consider to be the church. And what is probably worse, lol, is that I would see the Laodicean prinple affecting most of Christianity in general today.
I don't have neat compartments though that I would place the Laodicean principle in. Rather, I would see that Laodicean church in common denominators. Like what are common attributes we see today. And when we do that, the umbrella is far much bigger and wider than the renegade prosperity gospel Paula White outskirts. I see the problem much worse than that. lol. And yet, still I would see it as an age of Revlation. But sticking to this point to drive it home (which will likely not be agreed upon), the two Greek words used to form the Laodicea name = ruled by the people. Or self ruled. One common denominator there, to me, would be to ask how much of the church runs on "opinion?" Sure we use the word. Sure we are saved (I would see Laodicea as saved for they were not spewed out of God's mouth and had the first church council in their city--in addtion their bishop was martyred). But the trajectory today tends to favor "opinion" based operational status quite often. So in that sense, the tendency to mistake what the Bible might, could, or is saying, can be much more easily absorbed into our psyche as our opinions being cannon. And to the degree we might practice this is to the degree we might share in a similar difficult Laodicea had in evaluating herself. Because our opinions of the word can tend to blindsided us (self included--which is why I make it an important point to be on a forum where I might not agree everywhere...to daily challenge my own proclivity to use the majesty of opinion).
As for being careful of the gospel being the gospel and being clear on that, amen. I agree. I don't give WOF a pass. Nor do I give the general evangelical approaches a pass either. And I'm evangelical. So I'm included. But I would submit that overlaying deception of the tribulation era a symptom of opinion driven exegete. Our tendency to have to see it the way we feel we must, that this age is more deceptive than revelatory, is to me a symptom of the Laodicean opinion effect. That is not to say that we may not learn from that. For we may. God is merciful. We may learn from those on the sensational side even. Amen. I try to because I know my proclivity is kind of on the other side of the isle. And this is where I believe the crux of where we might be talking passed eachother in a way might in small ways be occuring. So I will try next to clarifying.
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I don't believe we are in some pause. I never said that. Neither do I mean that the canon is not closed. Or that God is giving new revelation. I never said that either. To be in an age were things are being disclosed, to me, just means we are in a time where things surface like they had not before. That is not new revelation. An example of this in a very practicle sense is the internet. We are alive at a time where "knowledge increases" because we see outside the state media narratives. Largely due to the ability to access information from all over. By nature of an age that can have that = we can more of what is going on. More of what is real. More of what is fake. By the very nature of our era, we live in a time where things are being fronted off. Yes the COVID caper was massive deception like the world has never seen before. But that does not mean we remain in stupor. For the greatest hoax outside of how the enemy distorts the gospel, would be the COVID hoax world wide. The day all commerce stopped is pretty deceptive power. And then the vaccines etc. etc. etc. But had we not the internet, it would have been isolated countries with much less info. And then we would never "see" how deceptive things have become.
We live in an age where Epstien and Diddy are exposing what was really going on in government and entertianment. When Trump came on board in 2017, it would seem he coined the term "Fake news." Prior to that era, we really did not have common language for that. And with the lightening rod of Trump, we see much easier now by contrast how fake the news has become on a super large scale. If Trump had not pointed that. If we had not seen the fake media onslaught against him for almost a decade now we would not be aware of how bad fake in news has become. So in that sense, we are in an era where things are being disclosed that were hidden. The way I look at it is kind of like when Jesus said: "Whatever is told in secret will be shouted from the roof tops." Now exegetically this is of course a reference to the great white throne judgement ultimately (and in part the separating of the goats and sheep prior to the 1,000 year reign motif). But I kind of look at the age of grace as a miniature golf version of what will also be for the tribulation. I see the age of grace and the age of tribulation as very different ages. But there are similarities. I would suggest that the way the age of grace concludes would likely be in its own right a way for God to close that era. And as a closing of an era it will be, it would make sense that a miniature golf version of things being disclosed (made more clear to us---not new things but old things were never were aware of as much) could be a way the age of grace closes. With the internet and social media and satellite, we are in a prime position to see much. Not new. Just what is there and has been there for a very long time. And it is in that sense I say that it is more an age of things to be revealed than for the deception. The other moniker I would to that is thematic.
By thematic I mean that it would appear that an age that dives headfirst into disclosure (as we seem to be here) could be considered a long dangerous lines. I am a cessationist. So when I say "reveal" I don't mean new revelation. In fact I likely mean that a lot more in the sense that I am a cessationist. The last thing to suspect from a cessationist is that he would believe there is new revelation. I'm trying to help you to track with my orientation here dear sister. Now there was a time for a short season where I wondered if God was "pouring out His spirit" because so much end time stuff started to accrue around 2017. And I watched rapture dream videos on YouTube for a year. Every night going to bed pretty much. Wondering if God might be pouring out some sense about the rapture a fresh. There were some interesting features forming back then. But in general it just did not seem that people were getting dream insight much at all. But I even as a cessationist, I gave it chance.
Since then, I believe exegetically the Joel later vibe of God pouring out His spirit is in reference to Israel at the 6th seal during the tribulation. Because right after that the 144k are being sealed. So that would make sense that the outpouring has to do with Israel reactivated. And not for the gentile church age. But, again, as a cessationist, I was open. So by my willingness to consider I might be too much of a cessationist, I learned that there is not huge outpouring of God's Spirit in some revelatory sense in our age. But I do believe a potential act of God might be coming. Not because of some special revelation. But more so from just looking at trends. The potential is hugely there. But an act of God does not have to mean new REVELATION. Now I could be wrong about this. This is my assessment of how things have been going for the last decade. And instead of it being less likely in my view, it seems to be more likely. But because of trends. Not because of revelation I have received. So yeah I could be way wrong.
But all in all dear sister, my point is just that, to me, it is sensationalism to call our age an age of deception and stop there. I don't disagree that deception in general has increased. As we are told evil would. Amen. We may not be in some providential pause. I don't see what we have as a pause at all. It is escalating daily is it not? lol. But I would not throw out Providence with the pause bathwater because it is not a pause. At the end of the day, Providence is a thing. Not a pause. But Providence. Yes. And so it is on that point where we will be looking at the elephant from different angles. I choose Providence because Ez 38 seems to track well with that. In that it comes from and with our age. Providentially. Whereas the sensationalizing facelift we might place upon our age (like pulling tribulation age motifs into our age), not so much. You might not agree here on this dear sister. But even with sensationaliszing deception, I think we can still learn a lot from camps that do that. Because, why? It reveals things that are, not new, to us...in the age we are now in. If that kind of approach makes sense? You may not agree dear sister. But does this help clarify a bit more why I might see what I do? Blessings.
Your are correct that deception is first. Amen. But what is the context? Does context matter? You say it is relating to signs because they ask for signs. Well enough. The deception as a sign comes on the wings of false messiahs and false prophets. Not Big Pharma COVID hoax. Why? 
