Are Old Testament Saints In the Rapture? And do the OT Saints Come to the Bema Seat With the Church?

[1LoverofGod]

When examining the Rapture scriptures of
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, it is pretty clear that it pertains to those who are "in Christ".
Meaning that the Rapture includes those who will be part of the first resurrection who died "in Christ", and those who are "still alive and remain", believers in Christ.
All believers in Christ are Raptured "together".
The Old Testament Saints would not be part of the first resurrection or the Rapture because Jesus had not yet been Sacrificed as our Savior when they died. Thus they did not die "in Christ".


13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

 

[Goodboy]

When examining the Rapture scriptures of
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, it is pretty clear that it pertains to those who are "in Christ".
Meaning that the Rapture includes those who will be part of the first resurrection who died "in Christ", and those who are "still alive and remain", believers in Christ.
All believers in Christ are Raptured "together".
The Old Testament Saints would not be part of the first resurrection or the Rapture because Jesus had not yet been Sacrificed as our Savior when they died. Thus they did not die "in Christ".

What is your version of "in Christ"? Paul is just speaking of anyone that believed in and followed (accepted) the same God of Abraham and Messiah that we do. No one was actually in Christ until Jesus died for our sins, even if they accepted Jesus as their Savior when Jesus walked the earth. Before Jesus death and resurrection everyone still had their sins unpaid for, so they could not be in Christ.

The Old Testament believers believed in the Messiah to come who is Jesus, though they did not know his name. When they died they went to Paradise which is where Jesus and the thief on the cross went. No one could go to Heaven at that time until Jesus was resurrected. After Jesus was resurrected all believers (just spirit and soul) who died including those from the Old Testament then went to Heaven. Until the Rapture no believers have their bodies though. So are the Old Testament believers in Heaven now? Of course they are, as they have received the free gift just like we have. So they are believers and are in Christ who is God and will get their new bodies along with us at the Rapture.

Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise .
Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

I submit that Abraham went to Paradise when he died as shown in Luke 16:22 above. He later went to Heaven after Jesus resurrection, as shown in Matthew 8:11 above. According to you where is Abraham now? If you say he is in Heaven, then he must be in Christ. If you say he is not in Heaven, then we just disagree.

So the only difference between Old Testament believers death and New Testament believers death, is that we skip Paradise (Abraham's bosom) and go straight to Heaven when we die.

I like to make things as simple as possible for those who like the plain and simple like me, but I am not interested in debating the subject.

God Bless

 

[lismore]

I submit that Abraham went to Paradise when he died as shown in Luke 16:22 above. He later went to Heaven after Jesus resurrection, as shown in Matthew 8:11 above. According to you where is Abraham now? If you say he is in Heaven, then he must be in Christ. If you say he is not in Heaven, then we just disagree.

Hello! I would agree with what you're saying. At the Transfiguration Moses and Elijah were walking with Jesus and the Apostles. Also this passage:

Acts 2:29-32 “Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it"

David believed the gospel, looking forward in time. We believe the gospel, looking back in time. The same gospel.

God Bless

 

[Goodboy]

Hello! I would agree with what you're saying. At the Transfiguration Moses and Elijah were walking with Jesus and the Apostles

Thanks so much for reminded me of this passage!

Matthew 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Matthew 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Matthew 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Matthew 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

God Bless!