Abraham Accords and the “Golden Age”

[KMendel]

I don't watch the local news..... I read the news from American and international sources. C'mon Andy...... it's not just California local news that is tainted! It's the national news, too. Sheesh!

 

[Amethyst]

We've never had this kind of behavior to this degree in the White House before

I don't typically feel the need to "defend" Trump, because it's just kindof a waste of time in the long run, but I will take Trump's brash speech every day of the week over Obama and Biden's deep seated hatred of America and ruthless ways.
Obama and Biden did wickedly in office. Trump has not had that degree of behavior.

 

[KMendel]

TT, I believe it was our government who initiated the green card program with Mexico so we would have workers to tend and reap crops here many, many years ago. Why? Because American white folk didn't want to do it! It has expanded over the years into the hospitality arena - dishwashers, sous chefs, room maids, etc. Americans didn't want to do those jobs, either. Maybe once the prices in hotels and restaurants go up even more due to no more cheap labor - maybe when produce on local stores around the country go sky-high - maybe when the garbage on our streets pile up and smells - maybe when our yards go to pot and home values sink....... you will think differently. Maybe. I am grateful for the people who come here, do these thankless jobs, and live as good people here. Get rid of the criminals, the trouble makers..... fine! But what is happening now is beyond dispicable.

 

[mattfivefour]

By my way of thinking, and my thinking aligns with our current laws, illegal aliens are not technically immigrants, they are illegal aliens. Thus, they are all criminals by virtue of entering our country illegally, the only question is to what degree. Now that district courts won't be able to stop Trump countrywide, this administration should be able to accelerate deportations of illegal aliens. I'm thankful for that personally.

I have first hand knowledge of the conditions that a lot of illegal aliens have left behind, and it isn't pretty. Even so, they should all be deported. If we need more workers, we should make it easier, perhaps much easier for people around the world to immigrate (come here legally) to the USA. The govmint agencies that manage that can ensure every immigrant has something they can offer this country, whether it's knowledge of rocket science, or an ability and willingness to take orders at McDonalds. As for temporary foreign workers, they should never take a job that a qualified citizen is willing to fill.

Donald Trump is certainly a colorful individual. I had a boss once who was very loud, told lewd jokes, and did a lot of other things I didn't particularly care for. He claimed to be a Christian, too. Despite everything I didn't like about him, I remember him fondly.

I am sorry to disagree with my sister @KMendel on this topic, but as a LEGAL immigrant, I agree with everything our brother has written above. If someone, anyone, came here illegally or is staying here illegally, they need to be removed. Yes, there may be situations where circumstances should necessitate compassion; but a willingness to break this country's laws in order to live here does not show respect for law and order. And why should such people who break the laws to come here get ahead of the tens of thousands of law-abiding people who are waiting patiently, following the law, to enter this country in a legal and respectful manner?

(As for refugees, those fleeing real personal dangers in their homelands, they already have a legal process by which they can be admitted to America on humanitarian grounds, provided they are good and honest people.)

For poorer people who are willing to work hard and hold to the principles of law and order I believe the immigration process needs to be made easier. Bureaucratic and financial barriers should be lowered or removed. But I believe that nobody should be admitted to the United States until they have been fully vetted as to possible criminal past, bad attitudes and intentions, and freedom from any communicable diseases. Not to mention they should have a strong desire to contribute to this great nation. BUT ... THISE WHO COME MUST DO IT LEGALLY.

 

[Amethyst]

a willingness to break this country's laws in order to live here does not show respect for law and order.

There is compassion and then there is unwise sentimentality.

God is the one who established the idea behind "borders" in the first place. National and personal.
If someone comes and tries to squat on my lawn or squat in my home it is called "trespassing": I'm calling the authorities.
I don't care how 'nice' they are or even if they do clean my toilet while doing so.

 

[LightOfMyLife]

Like I said on another thread, sometimes I want to hug him, when he pops out with "we love you God" and tries to acknowledge God's hand in the success of the B2 missions the other day, and other times I want to shake some sense into him.

I have no clue if he's saved or not. If he is, he is sure a baby still. As such they make a lot of messes trying to grow up and do it like the adults around them. I hope that is the case.

His spiritual advisor is Paula White. That is a serious problem.

Even if he isn't

He is still in power because God wills that he be there. For good or for ill. I watch as his actions, whether he realizes that or not, or intends it or not seem to be catapulting Europe onto the stage to become Rome 2.0 in my opinion. I saw it at NATO again.

You would think Franklin Graham and some other Christians have clued him in on Paula White.

 

[TCC]

Kathy I am glad you are here at CCF and grateful for you sharing your perspective.

I hope this helps: I pray for civil leaders—especially Trump & Netanyahu. It’s remarkable how much that has HELPED ME! Now when good things happen I automatically thank God for answered prayers

I wish people would stop letting President Trump rent space in their heads. In my world he’s kind of in the background and his importance is connected to how the Lord uses him.

If you have read our brother @TCC when he comments on Trump, you may find some things in common. Maybe California news feed

I love that both of you are comfortable here at CCF to color outside of the lines and share minority views!

I object!!! My view is not "minority." Ill have you know dear sister, I am the ONLY one that holds it. So there! Not minority. For it to be qualify as minority, other would have to see it too. I have not found ONE. I am not a minority view. I'm the, "I'm sorry sir, but that view is not even on the radar, sir. view." lol. Just having some fun on Sunday. It's not that I mind it not even actually being an official view of any kind. It makes me work harder on how I am thinking about things...seeing it likely is some kind of nuts, possibly. Or perhaps only a mirror of what I think it likely is, but not. Even so, lol, just wanted to defend the "unview" status position of my view.

But on the level though dear sister, thanks I am very blessed to be a member of our community here. And appreciate your impartial love toward differing views amount the brethren. Very blessed indeed. Have always adored greatly our exchanges . It would be the same regardless what forum I would go to, though as far as if there were a choice to be at a forum with my views or go to a forum that does not holistically share my views. For that forum does not exist.

But If Jack Hibbs had a forum, there are some things that church perspective on end times might have that could be somewhat closer than our forum in some respects in ralation to my view. Like Amir, for example, being the only voice I have heard among our closer eschatological circles that have strong social media presence that would officially state with a measure of clearity that the US is likely getting stronger to bring up Israel unto Ez 38 peace and safety (which is one of my 5 core compiste centered views). But I think that is about as far as Hibbs congregation would go. They would be a 1 point Teren Point of Viewist. Which is about as far as I can see any eschatological view would go.

But where aspects of Jack's church might see perhaps more on par with certain things pertaining to Trump in ways with how I would see things, they would (and have in the past) seemingly inched there way more toward a semi-NAR perspective. And certainly in contrast to my other 4 points (although they might in general have some sense of my take on the nature and charactor of how I might see a Ladocian age to look like with Christiandom in general). So in that sense, CFF is actually a lot closer to the aspects of my view that have nothing to with NAR. And in many respects I am edified for that for that being the case here as CFF.

. . . . .

In any event, thank you so much sister for your love and care in Him toward the body. And your open heart toward discussion on a wide range of perspectives (as well as this forum in general too, amen). Blessings.

 

[1LoverofGod]

This world and everything in it is fallen.
No doubt we are living in the last days
Because in Christ we have a renewed mind that by The Holy Spirit we can see that this world is fallen and is under the power of the wicked one.

We can all empathize that there is always something that is not of The Most High God Almighty
What we could see before being born again looks completely different as we see things through the lens of Christ.

True, we don't always see things the same and at times may even err in our perspectives, but that goes with the fact that while we are born again and belong to Jesus, the renewing of our minds is a process in our sanctification, but God will continue doing a good work in us until its completion. Philippians 1:6

Living in these last days, we are not going to always be comfortable nor content with some things in this fallen world.
Scripture points to passages that describe what things will be like in the last days, and we can underline what is clearly visible to us and confirm that we certainly are in the last days
Here us just one of those passages. We can see that this is what its like in the world today

1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:
2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good,
4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
2 Timothy 3:1-5

The reason I point these things out, is so we can understand why some things may be disturbing to watch.
However, if there was nothing in this world in these last days disturbing to any of us, and we would be content with the things of this world, there would be no need for Jesus to establish God's Kingdom on earth.
But that isn't the case.

For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
Romans 8:22-23

Why do the things of this world bother us?
We are not part of this world. John 17:6

But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ
Philippians 3:20

Nothing of this world is our desire. Our desire is glory in all perfection in the place Jesus has prepared for us and is coming soon to take us there to be with Him forever.

God is Omniscient knowing the end from the beginning. Anything that happens, God permits to lead to His purpose.

I think we can all give some grace to anyone in the body of Christ who is not content with things of this world and be an encourager with the promises of God in Christ that are Yes and Amen.

Until the Trumpet sounds and we are caught away to meet The Lord in the air,
We want to strive to not focus on what is perishable in this fallen world that can cause unwanted distress, but we keep looking for our blessed Hope and the appearing of our Savior and God Jesus. Titus 2:13

While we wait, we continue about The Father's Business and hold fast to our hope without wavering, because He Who has Promised is Faithful. Hebrews 10:23
Blessings

 

[TCC]

Thank you. I do pray for our leadership...... from the president on down the ranks. I pray for the American people too. I pray for the good people who have immigrated here in good faith who are being persecuted..... and for all those suffering around the globe. My heart is broken at the amount of non-compassion I see and the vitriol that is coming from Christians and the unsaved on social media. It’s not what Jesus taught while He was here. May God come for us soon...... I pray for that, too.

In respect to Hol's quote of yours: "Too many people in our great land - Christian or not - are praising and raising this man to levels of magnificence that are unprecedented and dangerous. Just my personal opinion."

I understand what you are saying. I agree it is way over the top. During the time of Trump 45, one of my dear sisters from a previous church I was with was concerned with how so much of the church seemed to fawn over Trump. She was hopeful Biden to win, not because she was on the left. But because of how distorted the church had seemed to become over Trump. And that it would be healthier for the church to lose Trump so they could get back to focusing on God and the bible the way it is written.

As counter intuitive as my views are concerning Trump, it would not seem I might be one to actually support that sister. She would get a lot of heat from her current conservative church stances. But she did not care. She saw the imbalance and just wanted for the church to put their eyes back into their sockets. I agreed. I shared with her Scaramucci's concern with Trump back then (a video that kind of launched the Lincoln Project) in part with understanding her concern. My take back then was the one I currently hold. It understood that what Trump would be up against would require either a very strong Christian or a total narcasistic. Nothing else would survive in that pond. Seeing if Trump where a Christian, not a very strong one (Paula White), I opted for the latter...lol. But still understood that from a socialogical view of what it was doing to the church, I agreed totally with her concern.

However, in all of that, I would have to say that I do believe it helps a lot in how we can consider thinking outside of our social moment in regards to what we see going on in front of us. For example, even though I would agree with the sister mentioned from my previous church, I would not really see Trump as the issue in comparison to what the church does with that. Trump is just who he is. And it is a difficult thing to weather how a paraded mascot of the American dream for decades comes against the establishment like a one man army (Rambo). I don't think there is any real antibodies to prevent society from going bonkers over that chemistry.

In many ways it is understandable that if what society sees for decades is one leader after another leader after another, not really stand on conviction, but lead America to sleep soothing us into a pied Piper dulling of "just go with it-ism." For that had become our world. There were no real contrasting virtues. It was monotone establishment wishing for America to buy that as our reality. And we had been baking in at that level for so long, having someone like Trump come along would naturally become a lightening rod for all that pent up diswayed conviction. Placing America before a real conviction oriented mogal. We would somewhat be defeneless against that being compared to removing the lid from a pressure cooker forcing us ever into group think...believing that was now "the new normal." Of course that pot would expode all over the place. Because for decades we had no real guidance at all. This is not to say Trump is total guidance. But I would see in that context, Trump as a lightening rod for all our pent up deflated normal aspirations of leadership not always leading us into the abyss of "You will own nothing and be happy. Oh, yeah...and please eat bugs."

. . . . .

So on that note, if we look at Trump crazed mania from that standpoint (a believe a healthy and real prognosis), we can see things like Trump over-the-top reaction as a symptom of just how America had been told to just stay in the corner for decades. And unmatured (along the way) emotions finally able to take a walk down the street--albiet still in our emotional quotient (EQ not IQ) as national adolescence stimmied from lack of growth believing true democracy was being conditioned in us for over the decades by globalism. And then we get a climpse that we had somehow been in a stupor of sorts for decades. It is understandable we would come out of that matrix having tween emotional frenzy equal to infatuation. Compared to government that wanted our self respect to become so low, they'd measure it to see if we even cared what sex we were or might become. For we forgot what chocolate actually tasted like by then (as a metaphor). And when you get a taste of guts and real push back (I don't care or give a blank attitude), we blush for all the right reasons. Lest we had become petrified leftist hermaphrodite wood.

So if we see the level of national and even church (along for that ride) immaturity at the point of a Trump entrance, we can clearly see that emotional levels would be generally weak, and easily led. For we believed in being easly lead by globalism much unawares. Of course in seeing it this way, it would be a natural to understand that what we are seeing is God showing us how immature we have been left in a condition thereof. And to me, rather than that being a tendency to scold, which makes sense on some levels of course, we would be being shown by God the level of our disease in need of some 12-step recovery program of sorts from having been duped by globalistic mind disortion for years. So in that sense, perhaps noticing the embarassing immaturity toward Trump is actually be a good thing. Like a zit on the face we see now can be popped. Whereas no zit seen, that stuff has nowhere to come out to better over time heal. And in that sense, we are allowed to see the true condition of the nation and the church. A light turned on in the room. A way to understand that where we are, before knowing best where to go sort of thing. If that makes sense?

And in that light seeing over-the-top views toward Trump to actually be as much a healthy pointing out of where we are at so we have a better idea of knowing where to go from here--can at least be a place to begin to understood from the perspective of what condition the church is actually in today. It is no shocker, I am sure, to most of us how concerned we have all become over the general state of the church (just looking at Christianity Today would be light enough to realize that, for sure). But if we look at what phenomon as happening toward Trump in the church +, we can understand, "Wow if the church is this vulnerable, what else should we be considering about ourselves?" This focus I believe can also help. So in that sense, what we don't like about the immaturity toward Trump seems to actually be what is helpful to see that needs to come to the sunlight to see.

Jack Hibbs during Trump 45 was understood even by some I know in his congregation that it was becoming the church of the conservative republican. A distraction away from holistic gospel teaching. And now, Jack Hibbs during Trump 47 refused to be a part of the Trump evangelical advisory committee. So we see Jack has grown. We can see that by seeing how the church reacts to a Trump age is largely yes about the condition of the church perhaps more than what it does or does not say about Trump. Although of course I have a few thoughts on that...lol. But my overall point being, that to me, what it looks like we are seeing is an opportunity for the church to see itself in the mirror and make adjustments as a whole. An opportunity afforded. But not always honored as such. For it is quite a distraction too perhaps in even seeing how embarssingly teenagerish the church in ways has come. But in light of it all, we can gain insight and mature perspective. And perhaps rather than some ministries that would see advantage in co-opting this state of affairs to push alternative POVs and grandstanding of sorts occur, rather, we can just look in the mirror and fix our tie. Or bow in the hair. Me thinks. Sorry for long post. But I think its helpful backdrop to a degree. Blessings

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

I voted for him the first time around, and I had planned on voting for him again. But the more he talked during the campaign,
the more my spirit said no. It's easy to praise him if you are only looking at the USA/Israel thing - altho I believe he is looking at gaining
something(s) for himself in his interventions/promises. His "art of the deal" is wrapped up always in gaining something for himself. Nothing has changed there.

But, his whole thing on using ICE to round up the illegal aliens to get rid of the criminals is a laugh. And a lie. He's not using ICE to go after the gangs, drug dealers, and criminals. He's not sending them to the gang infested areas.................he's rounding up the aliens who are working, productive, family members just trying to make a living and maybe send some money back home to family. The bad ones are still here and thriving and will remain here the way it is going,

We should be paying attention and calling things out as we see them.................if we don't we are risking doing exactly what the Germans did/didn't
do in the 1930-40's. We're supposed to learn from the past, not embrace the errors of the past. Is it that we are only interested as Christians in the USA and Israel...........and not the rest of humanity? Just remember, when a government goes after one group of people and removes them, they go after another group, and then another..........until ultimately they come for you. Now it is the Mexicans, next it will be the middle-easterners, then the blacks, then it will be the poor whites.........then the middle class............until all that is left is the rich and their AI to be their workers.

Is he a Christian? I can't say. But, there is not much that points to it. Someone said above that all Christians deal with sin and making bad decisions, and that is true...........but, they (we) are TRYING to do better and walk with Christ. I don't see that with him. He references God when it suits him, but then immediately brings it all back to himself. We are supposed to honor/obey him while he ignores and tries to dismantle the laws of our land? While he threatens to take over Canada, Iceland, and the Panama Canal? While he works to dismantle the term limits of the presidency? We must do better at scrutinizing all of it...........or we will become no better than the people who followed Jim Jones and drank the kool-aid. Just as Europe should have scrutinized Hitler but didn't, we need to not just champion Israel, but also our own people who are being persecuted. Too many people in our great land - Christian or not - are praising and raising this man to levels of magnificence that are unprecedented and dangerous. Just my personal opinion and I don't expect a lot of you to agree .... but I've been biting my tongue for a while now, and I gather my opinion - right or wrong - is just as important as anyone else's so here it is. Thanks for reading.....

I think the bumper sticker, "Trump is President, but Jesus is God" is apt

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

Andy...... my thoughts above have nothing to do with escatology. My concern is with a president that constantly spouts vitriol on his social media and on camera. If someone dares disagree with him, he attacks verbally and threatens them. Constantly. We've never had this kind of behavior to this degree in the White House before. Instead of doing surgery to eliminate financial waste in governmental departments, he just shuts down the whole lot - to our detriment. Instead of getting rid of criminal immigrants as he said he was doing, he's ignoring them and going after the hard-working, productive immigrants. It's hard not to give him "rental space in my mind" because he is constantly in front of cameras spouting his disrespectful vitriol.
I can't be quiet anymore. I'm not saying he hasn't done a few good things...... but, overall, he's behaving badly. He's not "joking" - he's serious. And, he's scary.

The vitriol associated with the McCarthy witch hunts for Communists was actually worse. The difference was no social media and only limited television channels, so it wasn't in everyone's face 24/7 like it is now, and there weren't nearly the number of organizations, PACs, independents, and puppets spinning everything everyone said or did.

Some of the vitriol between different Christian denominations has been and is horrible! How much more we agree on than not. Yet, non-Salvation issue differences seem to bring out the absolute worst brotherly hatred in the Body of Christ




My first thought when President Trump talked about Canada as the 51st State, and taking Greenland and the Panama Canal was, "Who does he think he is?"

Like all of the other Presidents that I've lived through (starting with President Eisenhower), President Trump has said and done things I agree with, things I don't agree with, things that I don't care about, and things I've changed my mind about.

I still respect ALL of the living former Presidents as former Presidents (President Clinton, President Bush, President Obama, and President Biden), and appreciate the generally orderly and peaceful transfer of power/transition between administrations, the freedom to vote for whomever we want without retribution, and women and religious minorities' right to vote, which we enjoy in the United States. I've lived and worked in countries, where this isn't the case. The death toll from political violence Plus injuries, loss of property, retribution (political persecution, to include loss of job, demotion, etc.), and lack of trust and cooperation between neighbors and even family is horrible.

Having worked in Federal civil service, worked with civilian and law enforcement Federal employees, and been County and local law enforcement, I've seen and understand how civil service at various levels works, and that it's what keeps the government functioning, no matter which politicians and appointees are in office.

Living in Minnesota, which is generally well-run, but has some policies, with which I seriously disagree, gives me a real appreciation for the way people here actually talk and listen to one another (usually), the very high level of interest and participation in political and social causes (we even have officially designated protest areas, which provide access to media and politicians, which are usually being used), and the ongoing, ubiquitous involvement of the Church, Synagogues, mosques, temples, etc. in the communities. Looking at the the national and international political stages is interesting, particularly in the light of prophecy, and it's really cool watching Biblical prophetic events unfold right in front of me. However, at least for now, it's what's going on locally politically and in my very local mission field that have the most effect on my dog and me.

So, I do what God's led me to do in my little corner of the world, pray for my leaders (Church and political), and try to be a decent neighbor and citizen (failing miserably sometimes). When it's time to vote, I research the candidates and issues, pray to God for guidance, listen, and then vote. I treasure our right to a secret ballot, so I never ask who someone else voted for/will vote for. It's none of my business. For the same reason, I don't tell anyone who I voted for/will vote for, either.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

TT, I believe it was our government who initiated the green card program with Mexico so we would have workers to tend and reap crops here many, many years ago. Why? Because American white folk didn't want to do it! It has expanded over the years into the hospitality arena - dishwashers, sous chefs, room maids, etc. Americans didn't want to do those jobs, either. Maybe once the prices in hotels and restaurants go up even more due to no more cheap labor - maybe when produce on local stores around the country go sky-high - maybe when the garbage on our streets pile up and smells - maybe when our yards go to pot and home values sink....... you will think differently. Maybe. I am grateful for the people who come here, do these thankless jobs, and live as good people here. Get rid of the criminals, the trouble makers..... fine! But what is happening now is beyond dispicable.

There are people, who come here on work visas and take high-paying tech jobs away from Americans. Some live in my apartment complex. They're here a year or two and then go back to their home country, and then someone else comes.
Other people on work visas take trade jobs. Plumbing, HVAC, electrician, etc. Some work as RNs and NPs. All high-paying jobs that Americans will, can, and would like to do. I don't understand why the unions aren't fighting this.

A lot of the low-paying service jobs that are taken by migrants/illegals/immigrants are entry-level jobs that teach teens and young adults good work habits, such as being on time, adherence to safety, how to wear a uniform or choose suitable work attire, how to work for a boss and with other workers, how to follow workplace procedures and rules, etc. This deprives teens, young adults, students, and recently-released criminals with opportunities to work, learn, and be productive. In many ways, it adds to personal, social, and government expenses by increasing student loan debt and reincarceration due to revoked probation and parole for not having a job. It also keeps older Seniors from working longer and increasing or supplementing Social Security benefits.


I got passed over for a maintenance job that I can, am qualified for, and wanted to do, because I don't speak fluent Spanish. Most of the crew came from elsewhere and the language used by the crew and between supervisor and crew is Spanish. IDK if the crew members are here legally or illegally, but the point being, workers from elsewhere are taking good jobs and creating barriers for English-only Americans to work.


I bet, but have no evidence, that some of the temporary workers here legally are committing industrial espionage, even if "only" manufacturing methods, processes, provisioning, and scheduling. Even if not with nefarious intent, by becoming familiar with how things are done here, they could copy or adapt it at home to help an employer there do things better and become more competitive against companies here.


When the foreign workers here on work visas leave, they leave their furniture behind. Understandable because shipping would be prohibitively expensive. The apartment complex has someone take it away, and at least some of it ends up in OUR landfill I'm trying to get the complex to donate the usable furniture, which almost all of it is, to a thrift shop for Veterans. They take used upholstered furniture and clean used mattresses (virtually no one else does), as well as hard stick, etc., so that would be a LOT of stuff not in OUR landfill, AND it would help people, who are trying to get back on their feet. It might even generate a nice deduction for the complex, which might help keep our rent from going up even higher than it already is.

 

[TCC]

I don't understand why the unions aren't fighting this.

Amen.

 

[TCC]

TT, I believe it was our government who initiated the green card program with Mexico so we would have workers to tend and reap crops here many, many years ago. Why? Because American white folk didn't want to do it! It has expanded over the years into the hospitality arena - dishwashers, sous chefs, room maids, etc. Americans didn't want to do those jobs, either. Maybe once the prices in hotels and restaurants go up even more due to no more cheap labor - maybe when produce on local stores around the country go sky-high - maybe when the garbage on our streets pile up and smells - maybe when our yards go to pot and home values sink....... you will think differently. Maybe. I am grateful for the people who come here, do these thankless jobs, and live as good people here. Get rid of the criminals, the trouble makers..... fine! But what is happening now is beyond dispicable.

You bring up some good points K. I agree the focus should be more on criminals than workers. But I tend to understand where America has arrived to this point is a bigger overall issue. In the 1950s credit cards came out as a thing. In the 1970s the FED took us off the gold system. In the 2012 mass immigration occured through the Arab Spring. Our version of that was flood gate opening the border under Biden.

AS I see it, immigration has been a tool of globalism to dilute national identity and disorient a nation while more easily dumbing it down. Because their end game is to blend all countries to transition them into globalism official. What tends to occur under a central banking system (we have had 3 in America) is they print our money and charge us for using it. That means the dollar is always a real deficit and overtime that actuality erodes the dollar. The latest central banking system was installed in 1913. By the 1950s credit cards were introduced because of the decreased bying power accruing since 1913. Disconnecting from the gold standard in the 70s made unlimited printing have no boundaries (further eroding the dollar buying power).

As we all notice things in the market place stay at similar prices and rise slowly but the amount you get is shrinking in size. This, as well as the credit card, and disconnecting from the gold system are symptoms of the FED disguising the erosion of the value of the dollar they loan to us with interest. A household cannot go on forever using more credit cards to float their ability to stay afloat forever. At some point, they are upside down beyond a point of return to have sound monetary policy within the home. The left wanted open borders, yes to dilute voting and stay in power by bribing illegals with programs and available funds. Leftist money is used to provide illegals with drivers licenses, medi-cal, housing, etc. This way the left can pad the numbers with needed bodies even though not legal to vote.

Immigration (leaving border door open) under Biden was to pad the 2024 election. It is understandable why illegals would want to try and survive and live half way decent lives. I am sure there are Americans that don't want grunt work. But farms, restaurants and hotels etc using cheaper immigrant labor is similar to our purchasing a pound of coffee for $5, the shrinking the packaging size for the same or near same $ amount. The central banking system needs for their to be cheaper labor because the dollar the FED charge us to lose is losing purchasing power. And paying lower wages helps disguise the loss of monitory buying power. This would seem to be a very similar reason so much manufacturing left America. And it is not only to disguise value loss, but also to erode world economic trading power. So the USA would continue to lose world commercial leverage. And erode 1st world economic authority. Because globalism cannot ultimately work if America with a constitution is healthy.

The way I see it is that we have cheaper labor demands because it masks monitory erosion unnoticed so much while America remains under economic illusion of economic strength. If we noticed how much gold was worth proportionately per the World Debt Clock, at $8k plus an ounce, it would might alert the populous to come out of the delusion. So everything has been creepingly slowalked so as for America to not "feel" the loss in value and panic. Instead, issue credit cards, sending manufacturing out of the country, opening the borders for more low wage workers, keep us in purgatory never realizing the loss of our currency value over time. In that picture, low wage workers are needed as an illusionary bandaid.

Obviously the solution is not to remove all the low wage workers. Like slave labor eras, losing slave economic energy would devestate an economy. So I think its good Trump is realizing how to not spiral the economy into dissaray by removing the low wage workforce the dollar value is dependent upon. There is of course some truth to Americans not wanting to do certain jobs. But that is also a strategically convenient economic maskover. America is in the thrawls of globalist erosion on a number of fronts on purpose. For the purpose of handing us over to sovereign depletion. That is absoutley necessary to empower globalism one world government structuring.

I believe this understanding of where symptoms are, and why they are what they are is helpful in noticing the solving of the real problem. If America remains under the premise of living off of credit, buying cheaper goods manufactured outside the country, buying into open borders, and sensing the need to remain under an exploitive low wage income model, we will soon find ourselves owned by China, the WEF, and the NWO. Because we are not exactly in Kansas any more. The face value of concerns at the level America has become accustomed to be thinking like is understandable. But its not necessarily reality, proper. If that makes sense? Blessings.

 

[Cheeky200386]

TT, I believe it was our government who initiated the green card program with Mexico so we would have workers to tend and reap crops here many, many years ago. Why? Because American white folk didn't want to do it! It has expanded over the years into the hospitality arena - dishwashers, sous chefs, room maids, etc. Americans didn't want to do those jobs, either. Maybe once the prices in hotels and restaurants go up even more due to no more cheap labor - maybe when produce on local stores around the country go sky-high - maybe when the garbage on our streets pile up and smells - maybe when our yards go to pot and home values sink....... you will think differently. Maybe. I am grateful for the people who come here, do these thankless jobs, and live as good people here. Get rid of the criminals, the trouble makers..... fine! But what is happening now is beyond dispicable.

We need to get rid of anyone who has come here illegally. I hope you agree on that point. They are criminals by breaking the law.

 

[Hol]

Good points Teren, especially this: “If America remains under the premise of living off of credit, buying cheaper goods manufactured outside the country, buying into open borders, and sensing the need to remain under an exploitive low wage income model, we will soon find ourselves owned by China, the WEF, and the NWO.”

We need to get rid of anyone who has come here illegally. I hope you agree on that point. They are criminals by breaking the law.

So true @Cheeky200386

I sponsored a family who had green cards and after five years they were eligible and became citizens. That taught me to value the process and they are stellar citizens. Had we not struggled through that they wouldn’t have gained respect for the US. The country they came from had a custom of bribery and paying under the table.

 

[Cheeky200386]

Good points Teren, especially this: “If America remains under the premise of living off of credit, buying cheaper goods manufactured outside the country, buying into open borders, and sensing the need to remain under an exploitive low wage income model, we will soon find ourselves owned by China, the WEF, and the NWO.”


So true @Cheeky200386

I sponsored a family who had green cards and after five years they were eligible and became citizens. That taught me to value the process and they are stellar citizens. Had we not struggled through that they wouldn’t have gained respect for the US. The country they came from had a custom of bribery and paying under the table.

I'm a first-generation citizen. My father came here illegally; my mother came legally. Guess what happened? He started selling cocaine during the Cocaine 80's NYC scene, got arrested and served 4 years in federal prison. He thankfully turned his life around, went to college, and is now a legal resident with a green card. I love my dad; he led me to Jesus Christ and yet what he did to get here was wrong. He broke the law and should have been deported. I have no hesitation in saying that. Clearly God, in his mercy, used all that mess to lead us to where we are today.

My grandmother and great aunt also came here illegally and worked until the day they both died, well in their 80's. The 70's was the Wild West of immigration. They eventually became residents while living here but they should have also been deported and waited for their residency back in Colombia. They, sadly assisted my father by hiding his drug stash or dirty money and looking the other way during this drop offs when things would get too hot.

This reminds me of BLM, when white Americans were flagellating themselves over being white and had no idea what to do with me when I would speak up against the idiocy of BLM. It makes me chuckle because nobody could claim I was white and didn't know any better and now nobody can tell me I have no idea what immigrants go through having them in my immediate family. I know that Colombia and Dominican Republic are terrible countries to grow up in but that doesn't bypass the laws and policies of our country.

We often forget that the culture and mindset from those countries come with the immigrants. Mindsets that include, every man for himself, a dog-eat-dog world, family above the law and lack of trust in the police due to deep corruption, breaking laws as necessary also due to deep corruption and poverty etc. They are not Christian nations, but often Catholic mixed with paganism, or worse Islamic.

The virtue signaling is a bore at this point and it's a shame seeing it infect Christians.

 

[KMendel]

Cheeky,, forgive me.............but you are a first-generation citizen? Born to people who immigrated here both legally and illegally?
Do you not realize you are the epitome of who the president and ice are rounding up and detaining or sending away? There is no "citizenship by birth" anymore, according to DJT...........excluding his family members and himself, of course. To be honest, almost all of us are here because our ancestors at some point came here from other countries (and bore children)............some legally and many not. Based on that, many, many, many of us are not "citizens by birth". Your dad went to prison? Watch out...........they could come for you down the line. Mine came from Irelamd and Germany......I'm on the list, too.

To take it a step further.......... think of the Native Americans........this land was "theirs". North America and Canada's boundaries were populated by
many, many tribes that fished the rivers and lakes, and hunted the land from the Atlantic to the Pacific. The pilgrims arrived - as IMMIGRANTS -
from Europe, and promptly declared that land "theirs" - pushing the Indians farther and farther west, until there was nothing left to do but to round them up and put them on reservations (detention camps) on the most barren lands available. Then they stole the Indian children and took them to harsh and deadly schools to be educated in English where many of them died. We still have Indians living on reservations in abject poverty!! What gave US the right to do that when we were the immigrants?? I don't see the people coming here - especially the Mexicans - now trying to take over "our" country.........do you? It seems that once again we have not learned a thing from our past history...........so we are doomed to repeat it. And, it will be repeated again and again until none of us will be safe. Well, except for the politicians and very rich folks.

And, don't give me the words "it's against the law" .............. Who's law? Man's law or God's law?
When God sent the prophets to Israel to guide the people, of course the people demanded a king, God was not happy about providing a king,
but He gave the people their king to shut them up. How did that work out?? King Saul was a disaster...........David had his faults, too..........and on and on. Why? It was a human government that became more and more devoid of God's leading. And, so it has continued down thru the centuries, becoming more and more corrupt as we go. Except it's not just Israel - it's the governments of the globe! The tower of babel is back, with mankind over-riding God's law with their own. In essence saying, we will be not only be equal with God but we will surpass Him.

God taught us thru the old testament to care for one another, regardless of nationality, creed, etc. And, Jesus taught us to "love one another" and
to walk uprightly with God. Remember the story of the Good Samaritan? He helped a man in dire need - a man of another nationality in a strange place - without any thought to that man "taking" the money he paid for housing and care, or as we today would say "stealing our jobs"??
Wow, we've come a long way, haven't we?

One last point................. we seem to be so intent on punishing people for coming here to work for a better life - just as our ancestors did legally or illegally - but we sure aren't going after the corporations and small business, and citizens who hire maids, landscapers, au pairs, etc. who have been hiring these "illegal undesirables" have we?? We'll apply the "law" to only one side of the equation...........right? If Trump wanted to do it right, he would do the hard work of sending ICE after the aliens that are drug-dealers, murderers, rapists, child traffickers, gang members, convicts and trouble makers....... not the good people who contribute to our land and have been doing so for generations. Doing the jobs that we and our kids and grandkids would never "lower ourselves" to do.

It makes me sick to think that we - as Christians - and as people who have the same background of being "illegal immigrants" can have the gall to
think we are different or better than our brothers who live among us.........who like us, have been and are just trying to build a better life for their families. God created each and every one of us and NO ONE is better or more valuable than another.

It is truly going to be very, very interesting to see where this all ends up and how many of us will still be standing when all is said and done.
Please don't think you are exempt.........none of us are.

 

[Margery]

There's more than one aspect to Trump. He's in the right regards enforcing the border security around the States. I loved what he did to the nukes in Iran. I loved his first term how he brought the embassy to Jerusalem. Lots of good.

I love a lot of Americans. Including the part of my family that emigrated to the States to help with the Cold War (that's how my uncle the geophysicist ended up working for the US military) in the great Canadian brain drain. The dregs of the family stayed home and spawned me!!!

BUT I see @KMendel 's point in Post #13 on page 1 of this thread. She makes a good one. It's not all about illegal migrants. That's a safe subject. We all agree. (She posted just before I posted this, but my reply references her first post on page 1)

Borders are good.

So is the Constitution, the separation of Congress from the Presidency, and the legal beagles in the Justice dept. Due process if for no other reason than to avoid deporting one's own citizens or jailing them without due process even on home soil. Usually that sort of thing happens in banana republics or Nazi Germany or Russia where citizen's rights are almost non existent.

Lest you think that hasn't happened yet, it has. I've seen it on American news channels - it's not headline news. But it's unsettling. The reason for due process is to safeguard citizens rights, not necessarily to protect criminals and illegals.

Someone said upthread that God made borders. He does.

Yet Trump doesn't respect our borders here in Canada- your former friends and allies, your neighbours who have always come to your aid.

Trump threatens Canada, to annex us (he's at it again this week) and at one point was deriding our borders as something artificial. He's quite serious about the 51st State stuff, he's said it over and over, very very seriously. He assures newsfolk in the States, he's QUITE SERIOUS about that. I can't imagine how Greenland feels, they are even smaller than us. Or Panama?

So borders are only ok when it's HIS country, the USA- but borders for Canada, Greenland and Panama are only there as an artificial line???? Do Christians in other countries feel like their God given borders are being trampled on? You bet they do!

Might makes right does it??? He has power and uses it.

I don't mind when it's used fairly, to benefit America, that is what he's there for. I love when he stands up for Israel instead of tariffing them or ordering them around.

In his world there are only winners and losers. For him to be a winner, he has to make others lose. Negotiations are supposed to be a win for BOTH sides. That's how it usually works.

He takes distinct pleasure in humiliating the "loser" that he bullied into submission. He talked a lot about 90 deals in 90 days but capped it off by saying that countries around the world were lining up to kiss his backside. (I cleaned up his terminology there) but in the days after that, he's almost taken to pleading for anyone to sign on with him. I can't imagine why they aren't lining up!

Trade- Those deals he is working on. With all the countries including islands only inhabited by penguins that irritated him in some fashion. How his economics advisors did that balance of trade formula to realize how badly those penguins treated America and how high those penguins had made their tariffs was quite informative. These are the guys advising him on economic policy there!!! Dastardly PENGUINS!!!

He's got a couple of deals, Britain can sell Rolls Royce engines (that go into Boeing aircraft) without tariffs. Boeing was in deep trouble without those. Jokes about imports of Rolls Royce cars aside, Boeing was in trouble like a LOT of USA factories who depend on imported materials and parts.

The deal with China is more of an understanding that talks will continue, but it's brought tariffs down from 300% on things like car seats and strollers, which affect young American families. I think it's a mere 60% which is still a steep tax that young parents will have to budget for.

Right now Canada is working hard and fast to sell our grain, our oil, our steel, our aluminum, our potash and our lumber in other markets. Markets that are affected by the tariffs in their countries. Brazil has replaced the USA for soybean sales in China for example. Japan is interested in our steel and aluminum. We are talking with South Korea about ships. Canada signed onto the REARM Europe agreement.

That is something you might want to look into- NATO in Europe was busy doing side deals while Rutte flattered Trump.

The money that Europe and Canada are spending to meet our NATO targets (used to be 2% but Trump upped it to 5%) won't be going to US armament manufacturers. If Canada and Europe have a choice that is.

That's a lot of money on the table that Trump could have won for US manufacturing but it's going to several other places. It was going on during the G7 too.

Other countries won't say it publicly, but they vote with their feet when and where they can. Of course Trump can force some into playing along, but when you go to a trade war with the entire world, don't be too surprised if that world decides it's time to pivot away from American suppliers. If Trump wanted to increase US exports, he is going about it the wrong way. Hopefully Americans will buy enough from Americans to make up for those losses.

Canada is quickly aligning with Europe now and I see that as yet another example of how Trump is inadvertently pushing the world into the economics and geo politics necessary for the Tribulation. It's quite something how fast he's doing it.

If Poilievre had won Canada, we would still be your allies. Now under Carney, the more Trump bullies him, and pushes him around, the more Carney turns to Europe. Trump likes Carney and said he didn't like Poilievre because Poilievre doesn't get pushed around. Yet Poilievre would have America's back no matter what. Carney doesn't. But Trump interfered with the election and ensured Poilievre lost. And yet that means that Canada is folding into Europe as a partner of the new upcoming European armed forces. We are folding into them economically as well.

Carney WILL stab you in the back at the first opportunity and smile while doing it. He's a "don't get mad, get even" sort of character. Perfect sort for the time we are living in.

Marching towards the Tribulation and Rome 2.0! Trump IS being used by God for that purpose too. I'm sad. I grieve for my country. But I know that time is short if God is allowing this.

Tariffs:

At the start, before the world got tariffed, Trump tore up the agreement with Canada and Mexico that he negotiated in his first term and issued a special tariff on Canada as well as Mexico. He said we were sending drugs and illegals down south. So we immediately fixed it.

In the process of fixing it, we found out that less than 1% of the drugs entering America came across our border but we caught QUITE A LOT OF AMERICAN drug smugglers going north, along with illegal firearms being smuggled in AND illegals trying to enter Canada.

When that happened it was obviously a bit embarrassing to Trump because suddenly that tariff talk disappeared and the world wide tariffs were brought in, with special mention for Canada. The fact that we supply 1/3 of your oil was a problem, so that was dropped. We made concessions that were never acknowledged.

Everything you've heard about the trade stuff comes from the White House or the media, and it's not presenting Canada fairly. Trump has misrepresented things. His entire way of calculating tariffs was based on balance of trade which he misinterpreted as evidence of tariffs or unfair dealings.

In the last 24-48 hours he decided to cut off all trade talks with Canada AGAIN, calling us names and calling out a 3%tax that we've had in the works since 2020, that was due to come online later this month. 3 % - charged on US based businesses like Uber, AirBNB, YouTube, Meta, Google etc - that 3% is from the money they made off CANADIANS. Other companies operating in Canada pay taxes, so this was an unfair advantage these multinational US based businesses had.

Keep in mind that Canadian businesses operating in the USA pay all local and federal taxes! But somehow it's unfair for American businesses working in Canada, making money off Canadians to pay a 3% tax

What was it Trump charges his own people to buy a Chinese made stroller or car seat? 300% at one point. Now I think it's only 60%.

SO Trump threw a fit. Called off the trade negotiations. Ok fair enough- that's Trump doing Trump things.

Carney caved this morning, gave in. So American businesses have a free ride in Canada.

I'll tell you something straight- as a Christian I will and do forgive him and Trump both. But what really gets me is the times when criticism of Trump is framed in such a way that it's almost unchristian to call him out for doing the bad stuff.

As usual, I will give praise where praise is due. He finally came thru for Israel when they needed it, when we all needed those MOPS to clean up the nuclear threat in Iran.

He's pretty good with Israel, but I haven't forgotten how he humiliated Netanyahu calling him out of an important trip in Hungary, to dance attendance on Trump and smile like his life depended on it, when Trump announced that Trump had unilaterally decided to negotiate with Iran. While Trump reminded him and the world of the aid they give Israel that they are contractually ordered to spend on American weaponry.

The weapons are part of a long standing agreement that Israel would buy them using that Aid from America (which 100% goes straight to American arms manufacturers on American soil) and in return Israel would not engage in large scale weapons manufacturing in Israel (and they WOULD share any armament tech they develop- like the Iron Dome now rejigged as America's Golden Dome, based on that Israeli innovation).

Or the fact that just after Trump announced his world wide tariffs, including Israel, Israel immediately dropped the much smaller tariffs they had- ALL the tariffs they had on US goods, but he kept the tariffs on Israel. And Netanyahu had to smile thru his teeth in the Oval Office and make it look good. After all Israel's life depends on staying on Trump's good side. Trump made it obvious to the world that Netanyahu was on a short leash, at Trump's beck and call, that Israel depends on Trump and the USA which they do.

Since then of course the world tariff rates have fluctuated wildly, to the point where no country really wants to bother to make a deal, because he can break the deal the very next day on whatever pretext he sees fit.

He is not a man of his word. He tears up contracts that he himself negotiated, he changes the terms, moves the goal posts. He doesn't respect other country's borders while demanding total respect for his. He launches a trade war with the world, but expects the world to rush to his door to make deals.

But he did bomb the daylights out of 3 seriously evil nuke sites that threatened the whole world. And I'm grateful. I'll take an unreliable ally any day that I don't have to worry about the grandchildren glowing in the dark someday soon.

And for now he backs Israel up against the world. And again, I'm grateful.

 

[KMendel]

Let me be clear............. I am a believer in borders. I've said for decades that we should have had our troops and national guard on our borders to protect them. But we didn't. I am all for closing and protecting our borders now. I'm all for deporting the illegals who crossed those borders to do ill against our country and our people. I'm all for not allowing more to come. But, the honest, hardworking ones who came here and had families lived good lives while we were not doing our job of protecting those borders should be given amnesty, and be allowed to stay. What is happening today is cruel, heartless and immoral. JMHO