Was it the forbidden fruit or disobedience that caused the fall?

[Goodboy]

Was it the forbidden fruit or disobedience that caused the fall?
Judge for yourself.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Romans 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Romans 5:17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Romans 5:19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Goodboy

 

[Andy C]

Was it the forbidden fruit or disobedience that caused the fall?
Judge for yourself.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Romans 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Romans 5:17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Romans 5:19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Goodboy

Yes, disobedience of Gods command to not eat of the tree caused the fall of man. God knew long before Adam and Eve were created, what choices they would make.

Interesting side bar question: Had they not eaten the fruit, how would we of known who Jesus is, or would there of even been a need for God to reveal Himself as Jesus?

 

[Goodboy]

Yes, disobedience of Gods command to not eat of the tree caused the fall of man. God knew long before Adam and Eve were created, what choices they would make.

Interesting side bar question: Had they not eaten the fruit, how would we of known who Jesus is, or would there of even been a need for God to reveal Himself as Jesus?

I wrote this because someone on another Christian forum I look at every one in a while said that the forbidden fruit was the problem and compared it to a child touching the stove. The stove would be the problem and what burns the child. So they believe something in the forbidden fruit changed their DNA or something. That would mean that God really had nothing to do with it and also that the obedience of Jesus would not have been the cure.

Regarding your side bar.
That for me is one of those questions that I am not sure I can answer correctly but I will give you my opinion. Jesus was always a part of God known as the Word as you are aware. He later became flesh, so he could take upon himself our punishment. If he did not need to take our place in the flesh, my assumption is he would have never became flesh. So I guess he would have just been a spirit like the Holy Spirit.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
John 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
John 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
John 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
John 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

 

[Andy C]

Regarding your side bar.
That for me is one of those questions that I am not sure I can answer correctly but I will give you my opinion. Jesus was always a part of God known as the Word as you are aware. He later became flesh, so he could take upon himself our punishment. If he did not need to take our place in the flesh, my assumption is he would have never became flesh. So I guess he would have just been a spirit like the Holy Spirit.

Well said, I concur.

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

Interesting sidebar as well that David knew who Jesus was when he said in the psalm "Your Lord said to my Lord"

 

[BB1956]

Was it the forbidden fruit or disobedience that caused the fall?
Judge for yourself.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Romans 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Romans 5:17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Romans 5:19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Goodboy

Adam and Eve choosing to eat the fruit of the forbidden tree, was a genuine lack of love for the True God. God has always from the beginning wanted mankind(Adam & Eve) to love him so much that mankind would exercise faith that God knew what was in the best interests of his creation(what was good) and what was not in the best interests of his creation.(what was bad). The forbidden tree represents Gods Rulership, God's sovereignty. God is the only person who knows what is and is not in the best interests of what he created. Man should love God so much they exercise faith in that. So lacking love for True God caused both Adam and Eve to disobey God.

 

[Armor of Light]

God is Omniscient , all knowing , his knowledge is infinite and that means he knows everything about all that he has created. He knew the devil would become an adversary and lead 1/3 of the angels astray also deceiving Eve causing sin, so his plan of salvation for mankind whom he loves was already in motion through Jesus the Word
Colossians 1:16 "For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him."
The plan of salvation was there before the enemy was even created. What a marvelous amazing loving God we have! The sad thing is many will not know or acknowledge him and will suffer greatly for their not choosing to know , and love him.

 

[Hol]

Adam and Eve choosing to eat the fruit of the forbidden tree, was a genuine lack of love for the True God. God has always from the beginning wanted mankind(Adam & Eve) to love him so much that mankind would exercise faith that God knew what was in the best interests of his creation(what was good) and what was not in the best interests of his creation.(what was bad). The forbidden tree represents Gods Rulership, God's sovereignty. God is the only person who knows what is and is not in the best interests of what he created. Man should love God so much they exercise faith in that. So lacking love for True God caused both Adam and Eve to disobey God.

This is the heart of that tragic choice Adam made, and Eve was tricked but why didn't she submit to Adam's instructions or ask him first?

Both had so much to learn, and I believe they finally did: Genesis 4:26b "Then men began to call upon the name of the LORD."

 

[Hol]

Interesting side bar question: Had they not eaten the fruit, how would we of known who Jesus is, or would there of even been a need for God to reveal Himself as Jesus?

I was listening to Michael Rydelnik's radio program and a question about Genesis 3:8 "They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day..."

His answer was that it is Preincarnate Son of God, Jesus walking with them.

Regarding the other part of your question, 'what if they had not eaten the fruit,' I have confidence that they could have obeyed.

It's a similar question asked if Israel in 30AD could have accepted Jesus as their Christ. Yes, it was a legitimate offer from God.

 

[mattfivefour]

When we realize that it was choosing one's own desire over the will of God --in other words following the "I" that we interestingly see at the center of our words sin and pride, rather than following the Great I Am-- that was the cause of our disobedience, and that the fruit was merely the opportunity, then I believe the question answers itself.

So, why did God give man that free will? Did He not know the chaos and suffering that might unleash? Yes. He most certainly did: He is God. But if He had not done so, man would not have had free will and would have had no choice but to serve Him. That is not a love relationship; it is mindless servitude. And God created man for a love relationship, in which God would shower his love on us and we would return that love to him ... freely.

Therefore God had to make the dramatic decision to allow man to choose whatever way he wanted it to go. In this way --and only in this way-- could God have a free creation that freely chooses to love and serve Him. Only in this way could the perfect paradise, the unhindered intimate love relationship that God desires to have with us His creation, occur. Thus God designed it all, starting with the plan of salvation that He created before anything else. And thus was set into motion all that has transpired since the foundation of the world. What an awesome God!!!

Can we ever doubt how much He loves us? Look at all He has done from before time itself to bring us --all of us who ever have and ever will exist-- into this perfect love relationship which He has promised us and has assured us is reserved for us in Heaven...the first-fruits of which we are already enjoying! Glory to God!!! Glory to His Name!!! Hallelujah!!! Hallelujah!!! Hallelujah!!!

Despite the trials and the tears ... amidst the trials and the tears ... we thank you, Lord. We worship You. And we long to finally dwell in your very Presence ... forever.

 

[Batman]

Someone I count as a good friend listened to me share my woes for two hours without interrupting me. That helped me onto the path of healing. Not too many people will do something like that for another.

I was listening to Michael Rydelnik's radio program and a question about Genesis 3:8 "They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day..."

His answer was that it is Preincarnate Son of God, Jesus walking with them.

Regarding the other part of your question, 'what if they had not eaten the fruit,' I have confidence that they could have obeyed.

It's a similar question asked if Israel in 30AD could have accepted Jesus as their Christ. Yes, it was a legitimate offer from God.

This.........Without a shadow of a doubt, I 100% believe it was the Lord Jesus Christ.