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Trump Calls for Department of Education to Be ‘Closed Immediately’

Tall Timbers

Imperfect but forgiven
Staff member
President Donald Trump expressed that he wants the Department of Education to be “closed immediately,” describing it as a “big con job.”

“Oh, I’d like it to be closed immediately,” Trump answered. “Look, the Department of Education is a big con job. We’re ranked — so they ranked the top forty countries in the world. We’re ranked number 40th, but we’re ranked number one in one department, costs per pupil. So, we spend more per pupil than any other country in the world, but we’re ranked number 40. We’ve been between 38 and 40, the last time I looked it was 38 and then I looked two days ago … it came out at number 40.”

Trump continued to state that the United States government should send education back down to states, “I say send it back to Iowa, to Idaho, to Colorado.”


What's he waiting for? I guess there are probably details that would need working out to ensure a smooth transition to the states.
 
Hard to know what is best. States or fed? We already know the fed messed this up with massive incompetence, corruption, liberalism, PC, woke, triggering, socialism, marxism, and their love of $ that was obviously being moved to power brokers and thieves up and down the industry. But, is it hard to believe that the states wouldn't do these same things? Especially the blue states. We've poured trillions into a failed, corrupt, theft laden education system from the fed level and stopping that is certainly important. But would the fed $ keep flowing to any state that furthers this fiasco?

I'll support what seems right BUT it does seem to me that corruptors, thieves, liars, and any other criminal types that are proved out in the coming education system need to be in prison.......and that would be a huge improvement right there.
 
Two of the big concerns with doing this will be the entire financial aid system and accreditation. Very complex and not easily unraveled. Look at last year's fiasco with the "simplified" fafsa fiasco. Realistically, it'd be tough for this to be a quick fix.
 
It may help to stabilize families if a national school choice voucher is simultaneously offered.

Personally I haven’t been involved with financial aid for many years. From some news sources there is a view that the feds have no business in financing education. And, if higher ed wasn’t depending on the fed $$ they wouldn’t aggressively hike tuition. Again, I’m not all that familiar with current dilemmas in higher ed, but didn’t they abandon the merit system, e.g., SAT scores, for DEI? Maybe they can establish realistic standards for accreditation that is merit based and no longer tied to progressive liberal pronouns.
 
President Donald Trump expressed that he wants the Department of Education to be “closed immediately,” describing it as a “big con job.”

“Oh, I’d like it to be closed immediately,” Trump answered. “Look, the Department of Education is a big con job. We’re ranked — so they ranked the top forty countries in the world. We’re ranked number 40th, but we’re ranked number one in one department, costs per pupil. So, we spend more per pupil than any other country in the world, but we’re ranked number 40. We’ve been between 38 and 40, the last time I looked it was 38 and then I looked two days ago … it came out at number 40.”

Trump continued to state that the United States government should send education back down to states, “I say send it back to Iowa, to Idaho, to Colorado.”


What's he waiting for? I guess there are probably details that would need working out to ensure a smooth transition to the states.

WARNING! RANT!


The Department of Education also includes the accrediting bodies for institutions of higher learning, and financial aid (grants and student loans).
And President Trump/Congress has to deal with NEA and AFT.
And the overlap between the VA and Dept of Education for some Veterans' benefits.

Back to the states for everything through high school works right away, or at least as of June 15th or 30th. Everything else would take longer.

As far as I'm concerned, the states should be able to accredit their own public universities, colleges, and trade schools (if they think it's necessary). Private schools of higher education could simply advertise things like library size, staff-to-student-ratios, campus safety, graduation rates, post-graduation placement/employment rates, and reviews from trade, industry, and commerce for graduate quality and fit of schooling to professional needs. And let market value for each school determine its cost via supply of space and demand for the education at that institution. Private institutions could determine their own admission criteria, curriculum, etc. without government interference/demands/etc., and only have school-provided financial aid, etc. If a school wants to charge $100,000 a semester, let it. If the education and/or diploma from that school is/are worth it, people will pay it. If not, people won't pay it and the school has to charge less or close.

Medical, law, library, schools etc. are already accredited/approved by professional bodies like AMA, ABA, ALA, etc. and there are provisions for graduates of unaccredited/unapproved schools, especially foreign (as in the offshore medical schools) to prove knowledge/competency and obtain the professional license (if required) to practice.

It would be really helpful if publicly funded student aid could only be used at public schools (vocational, professional, or academic) because far less costly, and private schools would be forced to become more competitive price-wise, or forced to become (or remain) truly outstanding to attract students.

Even if private schools are allowed to receive public funds via student loans, grants, etc., it should only be nonprofits, and maybe only the same amount of tuition (or less/maybe a specified percentage) than the same type of public school in that state. For-profit schools need to not receive public money because they jack up prices as high as the funding will pay, and it has nothing to do with quality or actual cost of providing the education.


Rant over.
 
I agree with a lot of that, Ghoti. The problem is in the details. With the exception of a few large research universities and ivy league and other highly selectives (don't get me started there), higher ed as we know it is in crisis now, or will be soon. Demographic trends alone are causing many colleges to close or consolidate. Maybe that's not all bad, but the way it's going to play out and some of the implications are scary.

The cost of compliance with regulations in terms of dollars and time is absolutely outrageous. There are a small number of software systems that run schools, and just keeping up with federal regs is already overly burdensome and an absolute productivity killer. When it comes to individual states, California and Texas (surprisingly on Texas) already have complex reporting requirements and systems that go way beyond the norm. Multiply that out to 50 states and it's guaranteed to be much worse over time, not better. As an example of how things go, the Michigan legislature wanted to track job related outcomes from secondary through higher ed. All well and good, except the way that got implemented by the state (before Whitmer, to be fair) is this massive data collection mandate that makes my blood boil. The bureaucratic mindset and ability to rationalize are almost beyond comprehension. The software companies will make more money and increase their licensing costs more than the usurious norm, but schools won't be able to absorb it. For profit schools are predators for the most part, but they're a tiny, tiny minority compared to the non-profit norm.

I'm all for less costly alternatives and kids getting into the trades, but that isn't for everyone. AI and other trends that are dumbing us down and making us redundant are maybe the final nail in the coffin. I'd love to see DOE get defanged, but I fear what comes next if it's eliminated will be much worse.
 
But, is it hard to believe that the states wouldn't do these same things? Especially the blue states.

The Federal involvement has resulted in a massive and costly failure. I suspect that in some states it might get even worse, if that's even possible, but some states will probably develop a very globally competitive K-12. Families that can will end up wanting to move to those states that develop exceptional K-12 programs.
 
I agree with a lot of that, Ghoti. The problem is in the details. With the exception of a few large research universities and ivy league and other highly selectives (don't get me started there), higher ed as we know it is in crisis now, or will be soon. Demographic trends alone are causing many colleges to close or consolidate. Maybe that's not all bad, but the way it's going to play out and some of the implications are scary.

The cost of compliance with regulations in terms of dollars and time is absolutely outrageous. There are a small number of software systems that run schools, and just keeping up with federal regs is already overly burdensome and an absolute productivity killer. When it comes to individual states, California and Texas (surprisingly on Texas) already have complex reporting requirements and systems that go way beyond the norm. Multiply that out to 50 states and it's guaranteed to be much worse over time, not better. As an example of how things go, the Michigan legislature wanted to track job related outcomes from secondary through higher ed. All well and good, except the way that got implemented by the state (before Whitmer, to be fair) is this massive data collection mandate that makes my blood boil. The bureaucratic mindset and ability to rationalize are almost beyond comprehension. The software companies will make more money and increase their licensing costs more than the usurious norm, but schools won't be able to absorb it. For profit schools are predators for the most part, but they're a tiny, tiny minority compared to the non-profit norm.

I'm all for less costly alternatives and kids getting into the trades, but that isn't for everyone. AI and other trends that are dumbing us down and making us redundant are maybe the final nail in the coffin. I'd love to see DOE get defanged, but I fear what comes next if it's eliminated will be much worse.

If DeptEd gets closed and the stupid regulations get axed, especially quotas, specific classes, specific resources, social engineering, etc., it would be a LOT easier and cheaper for higher ed institutions to comply with reasonable stuff, like maybe fire codes, enough gloves in student chemistry labs, and keeping the library open 24/7 except Christmas, etc.

If the college/university police departments were done away with, and schools no longer engaged in "criminal justice" activities, which are designed to hide crime and protect criminals all in the name of making the campuses look like safe places to send young adults, the reporting mechanism that's already in place for local law enforcement to report crimes via states to the Feds (UCR/NIBRS) would take care of both the reporting and more proper handling of crime. It would also save a lot of $$$$$$$ because properly training, equipping, arming, insuring, etc. police officers is very expensive.

The Big 10 schools, of which I attended three at one time or another, are very large, do a lot of research, and provide a good, solid education, which allow graduates to work in their chosen fields and compete for those jobs against graduates from pretty much everywhere. Not very expensive back then, but now, :yikes: IDK how good the actual education at these schools is, anymore, but if the University of Minnesota is an indicator, there are a LOT of foreign students attending here Unfortunately, that takes away space from US students :mad: UM graduates in high demand by local employers, which is good for Minnesota's kids :)

University of Minnesota used to charge $125 a quarter flat rate for a full load (12 credits or more) for resident tuition. Dad made money on me going there because I could register for 4 credits of violin and the school paid his salary plus the extra for private lessons for him to teach :) so what we paid (tuition + lab fee for private violin lessons), which I would have taken from my Dad for nothing if weren't enrolled at the U, was less than what he got paid to teach me :lol: FWIW, UM now charges $17,370 undergraduate tuiton/fees per year (2 semesters) for residents. Nonresidents pay $38,518.

When I was at UW-Madison, tuition was still less than $300 a semester for residents (Minnesota and Wisconsin had/still have reciprocity). UW now charges $10,006 per year (2 semesters) for residents, with some programs more, and non-residents pay at least $40,505.

In fairness, basic undergraduate courses like calculus, English Comp, etc. at UM and UW were HUGE. Some auditoriums could seat well over 2000 people. One class I took met in an auditorium, which could seat 4000. Due to economies of scale, giant, basic classes can make money for universities to subsidize higher level courses, which require more Professor involvement, and less/no TA. A good example is a calculus course. One Professor to 2000 students, with a TA for every 20-25. The TA gets paid in reduced/free tuition and a low pay rate to grade papers and help students that ask, and experience and sometimes professional/internship hours for some types of teaching/coaching. The money saved on not having a Professor of any rank for every 20-25 students in calculus, alone, is tremendous, and allows for small, specialty courses, which might have a Professor and no TA for 10-15 (generally graduate) students.


I was lucky enough to grow up in Minneapolis where and when both public and private K-12 schools were excellent. How good a school was depended greatly on the socioeconomic strata the money came from. Schools in more well-to places tended to do better than those in poorer areas. Many different factors, although parental involvement made a huge difference in how well schools in poorer areas did in relation to schools in similar areas with little or no parental involvement. But even the "worst" schools weren't very far behind the "best" schools.

I'm hoping if DeptEd gets done away with, so will the standardized tests that teachers teach, instead of teaching what the kids need to know. Schools were a lot better before DeptEd started micromanaging, pressuring, and punishing with those tests.
 

Trump Education nominee Linda McMahon says shutting down DOE would 'require congressional action'​


Congress would need to pass a law to shutter the Department of Education (DOE) before it could be abolished, President Donald Trump's nominee to head the Department of Education (DOE) told a Senate committee Thursday.

Sen. Bill Cassidy, R-La., first asked Linda McMahon whether she agrees the DOE would need congressional approval to close down entirely.

"Certainly, President Trump understands that we'll be working with Congress," McMahon told the members of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee. "We'd like to do this right. We'd like to make sure that we are presenting a plan that I think our senators could get on board with, and our Congress could get on board with, that would have a better functioning Department of Education, but it certainly does require congressional action."

More

 
Too bad everyone can't just home school.
I know! The negative is that as more parents homeschool the stronger the push will be for regulation from the government. I see it already. There are bills constantly being presented to include background checks and other regulations here in NH for homeschoolers. A bill was just pushed in Illinois to regulate homeschoolers and is waiting to be signed.

It’s terrible to have to be so vigilant and be active in the local politics. It keeps my head spinning seeing what’s happening every month.
 
There are Parents, who are not able to homeschool due to substance abuse, mental illness, disability, cognitive issues, etc., and/or uneducated/undereducated. The public school system gives their children at least a chance. A good church school, which didn't charge members would take care of this, as well. Unfortunately, the church-affiliated schools are rare/few-and-far-between, and only some churches pay all or even some of the tuition for their own members' kids at same/similar denomination schools.

I never would have gotten any farther than basic algebra if my Parents had home-schooled, and would have gotten little-to-no science, simply because their education was virtually all music, with the basics of other stuff. After I hit algebra, Dad couldn't answer math questions, and after the first part of basic algebra, Mom couldn't help me, either. I gave up asking for help with anything science-related before I finished grade school . . . [sigh]
 
There are Parents, who are not able to homeschool due to substance abuse, mental illness, disability, cognitive issues, etc., and/or uneducated/undereducated. The public school system gives their children at least a chance. A good church school, which didn't charge members would take care of this, as well. Unfortunately, the church-affiliated schools are rare/few-and-far-between, and only some churches pay all or even some of the tuition for their own members' kids at same/similar denomination schools.

I never would have gotten any farther than basic algebra if my Parents had home-schooled, and would have gotten little-to-no science, simply because their education was virtually all music, with the basics of other stuff. After I hit algebra, Dad couldn't answer math questions, and after the first part of basic algebra, Mom couldn't help me, either. I gave up asking for help with anything science-related before I finished grade school . . . [sigh]
There are a ton of resources for parents nowadays to teach advanced subjects. Lots of great curricula with videos and even live teachers. That’s what I’ll be doing with my kids for advanced math and science.

Coops can also be a great resource to have skilled parents teach the kids. There really isn’t a reason not to due to lack of education.
 
When I was growing up, way, way, way before the internet, homeschooling resources didn't exist like they do now, in part because not needed like they are now. The public schools, at least where I was, were generally reasonable and didn't do a lot of anti-Christian/anti-Jewish stuff other than when they took teacher-led corporate prayer and the Bibles out of the classrooms. And they actually did promote academic excellence and student and staff behavior was generally what it should have been. There were a lot more church-run schools then, too, and they, along with secular and religious private schools were very well regarded :)
I wasn't even taught evolution in public school! And the Bible was allowed as a resource and reference. As late as when my younger siblings were in HS, there were still classes based on the Bible: The Bible as Literature, The Bible as History, Biblical Archaeology, etc. in the public schools. And Bible clubs, etc. after school in the school.

In a lot of ways, I wish I had gone to Christian schools growing up and at least for my undergrad, though.


These days, the internet can be a great equalizer :)

Dependent on access, though. Some families don't have reliable internet in the home. Some due to money, some due to location (rural), and some due to parents simply not allowing it.
 
The public school system gives their children at least a chance.

With our current public school system as it is, in the vast majority of cases those kids are going to be babysat in school and will learn very little unless they were born with a strong personal initiative, and that would be a rare exception. A large percentage of those children will finish high school, if they don't drop out, with a grade school reading and writing level, with little knowledge of history, very little basic math skills, little or nothing of science.

On top of the complete and utter failure to receive an education, they'll have been indoctrinated to believe all sorts of twisted things. They won't have been taught to think for themselves, but to believe the propaganda that they're fed.

That's not all the fault of the education system. If a child comes from a home as you described, their chances of success compared to a child that comes from a family that provides a healthy home environment, nourishing food, and love and security while helping and encouraging the child to do well in school, and to make sure they do, are slim in comparison.

Teachers in the college prep/honors classes do a fine job in most cases, but the credit goes to the parents for the success of the child. But for supportive parents, the child would not be in those college prep/honors courses to begin with, which really are the only high school level courses available while the other 90% of the students are being babysat from the time they arrive to the time they depart their school.
 
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