Tired Of Waiting

By Jack Kelley:

Question :
I’ve been telling people about the Rapture and the “end times” ever since I first read Hal Lindsey’s book “The Late Great Planet Earth” 38 years ago. I’m tired of the Christians among my family and friends who have heard me for all these years and now laugh whenever I say something about current events and Bible prophecy.
These are all good Christians who believe in Jesus but just aren’t interested in Bible prophecy. It’s not just that they don’t believe it, they think it’s all centuries away.
I’ve lost the excitement of waiting for His return. I really thought the Rapture would have come before now.

Answer:
The scoffing attitudes of those who don’t understand the urgency of Bible prophecy can be discouraging, especially because they’re believers, but it’s a sign of the times (2 Peter 3:3-9). As Peter said, most people have a linear concept of history and expect the future to be just like the past. They don’t understand that God has periodically intervened abruptly and dramatically in the affairs of man. Try to remember that while we wait we who long for His appearing are earning a crown that will last forever (2 Tim. 4:8). Jesus said He would come suddenly and admonished us to hold on, so that no one will take our crown (Rev. 3:11).

Tired Of Waiting – Grace thru faith

gracethrufaith.com

 

[Batman]

I could be wrong about the sudden destruction area but to me it's when the AC sits in the 3rd temple and moves against God/Christ and Israel and humanity with the abomination that causes desolation and then puts the worst hammer down on Israel (and anyone that won't take the mark.....Christians) for the 2nd half of the tribulation.

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

I could be wrong about the sudden destruction area but to me it's when the AC sits in the 3rd temple and moves against God/Christ and Israel and humanity with the abomination that causes desolation and then puts the worst hammer down on Israel (and anyone that won't take the mark.....Christians) for the 2nd half of the tribulation.

I tend to agree, i think too many people associate that as one of the triggers for the rapture

 

[TCC]

I have a hard time following your points, or how it relates to your quoted portion of my post?

"I certainly hope its true," was referring to a hope of salvation for friends and loved ones plus during the tribulation. In general, your back and forth on this concern was most clearly stated in the following quote: "worry many will be killed instantly as a result of the sudden disappearance of millions around the world."

My post was just meant to compare what we know (that our concerns prior to evangelicalism discovering we are probably in end times) came differently than most of us thought. From conversation I have had over the years, most believers I spoke with agreed that no one really thought end times would fall upon us with so much patient time-released indicators along the way. Most of us thought it would catch the world off guard. Instead it caught the church by surprise in how open, observable, and slowly unfolding end time actually has come upon all of us.

Just like that, perhaps it is also true that when we come to what we know in the Bible of "sudden destruction," even that (in light of what we know--that end times has creeped upon us more than it has for us been a theif in the night) might come with patience before it. One way to look at this is Oct 7th for Isreal caught them by surprise in 2023. But seemed to be a miniature golf version of Ez 38. It is even rumored that perhaps what we saw in Oct of 2023 was a very early beginning stage of Ez 38, but one group (Hamas) got cocky and broke away from network planning and decided to just do it themselves. Which was half cocked. And embarrassing as a whole--if Hamas was one cog in a much greater network wheel to surround Israel.

In another way, Oct 7th was like a miniature Ez 38 because it surprised Israel at a time we all thought their Iron Dome protected them from such attacks like we saw. In that sense, and in that way, it was kind of theif in the night like. But given to Israel and a world that all got caught by surprise in it. If Ez 38 is within a few years out from now or so, then Oct 7th serves as one wake up call for Israel and the world of such said event on the horizon.

So here is what we have:

A) Israel gets attacked in shock
B) But that proves to be not devastating but at least on some fronts, a heads up
C) In very similar manner -- evangelicalism arrived unto end times gradually...it was not sudden
D) HERE IS THE UNKOWN -- So if A-C are true about God's character toward this end time age, it might also be true that God provide Israel a unique runway leading up to Ez 38...where Israel might have eyes opened (some of them) before their big day -- me thinks...and maybe many of them rapture with the church on the cusp of Ez 38 forming possibly.

So I ask you brother to consider those approaches we have seen in our end time wake, and consider "D" too which is literally hitched to the biblical concept of "Sudden destruction," and perhpas consider that where you might have concern of millions dying because of the rapture, that maybe (based on the revealed character of God disclosed to us in the last days) that how God's character might also weigh-in during perhaps even early parts of the tribulation might be more in relation to His character than otherwise what worse case scenarios about those days might be like. Since we don't know for sure, what we do know, and what we have been shown is God's greater character in patience and easing things into place. And that is the character of God going into the tribulation.

. . . . .

This is from Revelation 11

And after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them. 13 And [i]at that time there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell; [j]seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

That is right before the 7th Trumpet (which to me in what I understand places it about at just after the halfway mark). And what catches my attention there is that last statement capture: "and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven." Even here so far into the tribulation. We know that when the bowls hit, there will be a lot of people angry at God. And wont' repent. I believe many in that time though will be repenting. But that is for another time. What we do have here though is this...we have around the midpoint of the tribulation many also who fear God at that point.

So yes many bad things can and likely will happen after the rapture. But if those many people "the rest" gave glory to God that late in the tribulation, then in light of what we know about the character of God (being perhaps a bit less intense in the beginning stages of the tribulation than at the midpoint or at the end), it would stand to reason (from our own current experiences with how the character of God is handling end times even now) that since we don't know how it will play out exactly when it hits, that in that unknown it would be reasonable to lean on what is more favorable than what is less favorable. Not that how we look at it makes it one way or the other. Just that from what we know vs what we can't know, we do have precedent to lean more toward the goodness of God's character allowing for best possible outcomes in the early stages of the tribulation was my point. If that makes sense? Blessings.

 

[Andy C]

"I certainly hope its true," was referring to a hope of salvation for friends and loved ones plus during the tribulation. In general, your back and forth on this concern was most clearly stated in the following quote: "worry many will be killed instantly as a result of the sudden disappearance of millions around the world."

My post was just meant to compare what we know (that our concerns prior to evangelicalism discovering we are probably in end times) came differently than most of us thought. From conversation I have had over the years, most believers I spoke with agreed that no one really thought end times would fall upon us with so much patient time-released indicators along the way. Most of us thought it would catch the world off guard. Instead it caught the church by surprise in how open, observable, and slowly unfolding end time actually has come upon all of us.

Just like that, perhaps it is also true that when we come to what we know in the Bible of "sudden destruction," even that (in light of what we know--that end times has creeped upon us more than it has for us been a theif in the night) might come with patience before it. One way to look at this is Oct 7th for Isreal caught them by surprise in 2023. But seemed to be a miniature golf version of Ez 38. It is even rumored that perhaps what we saw in Oct of 2023 was a very early beginning stage of Ez 38, but one group (Hamas) got cocky and broke away from network planning and decided to just do it themselves. Which was half cocked. And embarrassing as a whole--if Hamas was one cog in a much greater network wheel to surround Israel.

In another way, Oct 7th was like a miniature Ez 38 because it surprised Israel at a time we all thought their Iron Dome protected them from such attacks like we saw. In that sense, and in that way, it was kind of theif in the night like. But given to Israel and a world that all got caught by surprise in it. If Ez 38 is within a few years out from now or so, then Oct 7th serves as one wake up call for Israel and the world of such said event on the horizon.

So here is what we have:

A) Israel gets attacked in shock
B) But that proves to be not devastating but at least on some fronts, a heads up
C) In very similar manner -- evangelicalism arrived unto end times gradually...it was not sudden
D) HERE IS THE UNKOWN -- So if A-C are true about God's character toward this end time age, it might also be true that God provide Israel a unique runway leading up to Ez 38...where Israel might have eyes opened (some of them) before their big day -- me thinks...and maybe many of them rapture with the church on the cusp of Ez 38 forming possibly.

So I ask you brother to consider those approaches we have seen in our end time wake, and consider "D" too which is literally hitched to the biblical concept of "Sudden destruction," and perhpas consider that where you might have concern of millions dying because of the rapture, that maybe (based on the revealed character of God disclosed to us in the last days) that how God's character might also weigh-in during perhaps even early parts of the tribulation might be more in relation to His character than otherwise what worse case scenarios about those days might be like. Since we don't know for sure, what we do know, and what we have been shown is God's greater character in patience and easing things into place. And that is the character of God going into the tribulation.

. . . . .

This is from Revelation 11

And after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them. 13 And [i]at that time there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell; [j]seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

That is right before the 7th Trumpet (which to me in what I understand places it about at just after the halfway mark). And what catches my attention there is that last statement capture: "and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven." Even here so far into the tribulation. We know that when the bowls hit, there will be a lot of people angry at God. And wont' repent. I believe many in that time though will be repenting. But that is for another time. What we do have here though is this...we have around the midpoint of the tribulation many also who fear God at that point.

So yes many bad things can and likely will happen after the rapture. But if those many people "the rest" gave glory to God that late in the tribulation, then in light of what we know about the character of God (being perhaps a bit less intense in the beginning stages of the tribulation than at the midpoint or at the end), it would stand to reason (from our own current experiences with how the character of God is handling end times even now) that since we don't know how it will play out exactly when it hits, that in that unknown it would be reasonable to lean on what is more favorable than what is less favorable. Not that how we look at it makes it one way or the other. Just that from what we know vs what we can't know, we do have precedent to lean more toward the goodness of God's character allowing for best possible outcomes in the early stages of the tribulation was my point. If that makes sense? Blessings.

My point was many will be killed as an immediate result of the rapture. Such as pilots being raptured and passenger jets crashing, cars on busy freeways and roads suddenly have no driver, and the driverless cars crashing, killing innocents…etc….My fear are those who die within seconds after the rapture wont have any time to repent, and believe before their sudden death. Throughout the rest of the 7 year tribulation, countless people will be saved.

 

[Cheeky200386]

My point was many will be killed as an immediate result of the rapture. Such as pilots being raptured and passenger jets crashing, cars on busy freeways and roads suddenly have no driver, and the driverless cars crashing, killing innocents…etc….My fear are those who die within seconds after the rapture wont have any time to repent, and believe before their sudden death. Throughout the rest of the 7 year tribulation, countless people will be saved.

I completely agree with you, Master Gunnery!

 

[TCC]

My point was many will be killed as an immediate result of the rapture. Such as pilots being raptured and passenger jets crashing, cars on busy freeways and roads suddenly have no driver, and the driverless cars crashing, killing innocents…etc….My fear are those who die within seconds after the rapture wont have any time to repent, and believe before their sudden death. Throughout the rest of the 7 year tribulation, countless people will be saved.

Thanks for explaining that. I understand what you are saying. At that appointed time, perhaps there may be fewer airline pilots who are believers in the air strategically. But yeah, there certainly will be many driving for sure. I lean toward a secret rapture. We are not told if the previous event of the dead in Christ rising first is will be witnessed by the world. Sometimes i wonder though. It is something of scriptural notice that Christ will shout and the dead rise first. Demonstrated as a bit loud. Whether it is noticed by the world is not given. But scriptural import of it in language of the loud kind in some way is provided. Against there not being provided rapture collision affect, at least that we know of, in the word. If there is some loudness noticed in the dead rising first, maybe it stops a world in its tracks, it might save lives as the world might see its effects. It certainly gives rise to pause...lol...if so. But I understand what you are saying.

I looked up rapture and pilots. And there are some links that references some pastors who believe the airlines pair co-pilots as unbelievers in case of a rapture. But the FAA does not have that policy. Perhaps though i guess God might or could. Maybe something like that could be in play. It would be a pretty cataclysmic event if as you see it might cause mass death, amen. Something like that would have impact like a seal judgement. Interesting that it is not mentioned. God could limit casualty by providential timing slating limited casualty perhaps. But understand your point brother. Blessings.

 

[Cheeky200386]

Thanks for explaining that. I understand what you are saying. At that appointed time, perhaps there may be fewer airline pilots who are believers in the air strategically. But yeah, there certainly will be many driving for sure. I lean toward a secret rapture. We are not told if the previous event of the dead in Christ rising first is will be witnessed by the world. Sometimes i wonder though. It is something of scriptural notice that Christ will shout and the dead rise first. Demonstrated as a bit loud. Whether it is noticed by the world is not given. But scriptural import of it in language of the loud kind in some way is provided. Against there not being provided rapture collision affect, at least that we know of, in the word. If there is some loudness noticed in the dead rising first, maybe it stops a world in its tracks, it might save lives as the world might see its effects. It certainly gives rise to pause...lol...if so. But I understand what you are saying.

I looked up rapture and pilots. And there are some links that references some pastors who believe the airlines pair co-pilots as unbelievers in case of a rapture. But the FAA does not have that policy. Perhaps though i guess God might or could. Maybe something like that could be in play. It would be a pretty cataclysmic event if as you see it might cause mass death, amen. Something like that would have impact like a seal judgement. Interesting that it is not mentioned. God could limit casualty by providential timing slating limited casualty perhaps. But understand your point brother. Blessings.

I have wondered the same. I’ve wondered if there will be as many believers left by the time of the rapture to make such a catastrophic difference. I’ve also been curious if the rapture will be a loud event that the entire world will witness or if we will disappear silently.

 

[Andy C]

I have wondered the same. I’ve wondered if there will be as many believers left by the time of the rapture to make such a catastrophic difference. I’ve also been curious if the rapture will be a loud event that the entire world will witness or if we will disappear silently.

While we certainly cant know how many are saved, I tend to believe it’s a much higher number than many believe.

I think back to how 3000 people were killed on 9/11, and how it had a great impact on the USA, especially in NYC. Imagine millions all disappearing at once, and it’s hard for me to believe it wont be dramatically noticed in every city, every state.

I dont know if those left behind will hear a loud noise, or see anyone getting raptured, but it surely will be captured on videos around the world. Think of all the street cameras, television crews during interviews, in store security cameras, all capturing a person disappearing in the blink of an eye.

 

[TCC]

While we certainly cant know how many are saved, I tend to believe it’s a much higher number than many believe.

I think back to how 3000 people were killed on 9/11, and how it had a great impact on the USA, especially in NYC. Imagine millions all disappearing at once, and it’s hard for me to believe it wont be dramatically noticed in every city, every state.

I dont know if those left behind will hear a loud noise, or see anyone getting raptured, but it surely will be captured on videos around the world. Think of all the street cameras, television crews during interviews, in store security cameras, all capturing a person disappearing in the blink of an eye.

I agree with a higher number of salvation at the time of rapture. I've seen in the past the reference for "Will there be faith upon the earth" when He comes. I tend to see that as His literal second coming. Which in a way seems an odd time to mention that. Because after all the seals, trumpets, and bowls having occured, and armegeddon to come, it would seem the world would be particularly noted for not being interested in salvation at all. Which might be the point made by Christ in why He said it.

In addition, perhaps its mention is related to what I see to be the Feast of Trumpets / The Sign of the Son of Man. Where Christ will be seen from afar. And yet not physically return to earth with all the ramifications that go with that. Likely providing 10 days to consider a repentant heart until the supper of God/reaper angel picking off the tares event (as the day of atonement for those who rejected Christ). Perhaps always why Christ said "will He find faith on the earth." Being like a statement of opportunity maybe more than a statement of condemnation.

But as I have weathered through Lordhip Salvation theological theories (as well as discontinued my previous concern of a partial rapture theory) over the decades, I tend to believe the % of believers is much higher than we might think. Blessings.

 

[TCC]

I have wondered the same. I’ve wondered if there will be as many believers left by the time of the rapture to make such a catastrophic difference. I’ve also been curious if the rapture will be a loud event that the entire world will witness or if we will disappear silently.

One way to consider this might be the two witnesses. Now, there are theories out there that the two witnesses are actually gentile/Jewish believers and that that is the church rapture. But that same theory counts 3 days as years and has it as an actual post trib rapture. So it is kind of a bonkers theory -- although what might be kind of exciting to consider about it is that if that gentile/Jew believer scenario is accurate, it would mean the church would turn into the two witnesses with massive power. Interesting if true...lol. But because of Zechariah 4, I would think the two witnesses are not the church. I believe it likely to be Elijah and Enoch (or some think Moses).

But if we look at their rapture, there is nothing quiet about it. Perhaps we think it as secret for us because it is still the age of grace when that happens. Whereas this event with the two witnesses is close to the middle point of the tribulation by then. So loud could just be a thing that goes with their age. Like I would see Ez 38 as a doorway production into the tribulation (a rather loud intro). But the rapture could be the waiving goodbye portion of the age of grace....which might be far more graceful.

But if the two witnesses rapture (different than the comparatively quiet Enoch rapture) has any bearing on what a rapture might look like perhaps even in proximity to the the tribulation (factoring a shout from Christ and the dead literally rising -- as a massive and super unique event of events), the two witnesses have the entire world watching. Horrified. Then celebrant. We typically tie in alien theory to explain it away. Perhaps. But with movies like "Left Behind," it might be maybe something like that, or maybe quite not like that at all. The gravity of that event does seem to be a Blindspot for us because we really don't have a way to tell. It's our event that we share in. But as far as the superintending of that event, we have no real bearings for that.

Things like an alien invasion explanation is a possible scenario, but when something becomes too popular and trendy, I tend to believe it is more likely not going to be like that at all. I guess in the interim, as long as we keep that a mere theory and not some high insight to build on and sell books and have seminars over, I guess its as good as any though. Thanks for sharing. Whatever it might be, is rather intriguing and interesting how matter-of-fact it is mentioned in 1 Thes like that...lol. Blessings.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

While we certainly cant know how many are saved, I tend to believe it’s a much higher number than many believe.

I think back to how 3000 people were killed on 9/11, and how it had a great impact on the USA, especially in NYC. Imagine millions all disappearing at once, and it’s hard for me to believe it wont be dramatically noticed in every city, every state.

I dont know if those left behind will hear a loud noise, or see anyone getting raptured, but it surely will be captured on videos around the world. Think of all the street cameras, television crews during interviews, in store security cameras, all capturing a person disappearing in the blink of an eye.

Imagine the consternation of a cop having just written a ticket(s) and reapproaching the stopped vehicle, and the driver and all the occupants simply vanish into thin air

Or the confusion and then delight of someone, who had been pulled over, and then the cop vanishes into thin air, with the DL falling to the ground

 

[TCC]

Imagine the consternation of a cop having just written a ticket(s) and reapproaching the stopped vehicle, and the driver and all the occupants simply vanish into thin air

Or the confusion and then delight of someone, who had been pulled over, and then the cop vanishes into thin air, with the DL falling to the ground

Nice. Yeah...that side of it is more fun to consider. Blessings.

 

[Andy C]

I completely agree with you, Master Gunnery!

Now you did it, I just noticed this post…..

There are two different ranks in the Marines that are the top of the enlisted ranks, both are pay grade of E9. Master Gunnery Sergeant, and Sergeant Major. Master Gunnery Sergeant is considered the most knowledgeable in their job rating (MOS). Sergeant Major is part of the command element of the Unit, and reports only to the commanding officer.

Im a retired SgtMaj

Drop down and give me 25 push-ups….

 

[Cheeky200386]

Now you did it, I just noticed this post…..

There are two different ranks in the Marines that are the top of the enlisted ranks, both are pay grade of E9. Master Gunnery Sergeant, and Sergeant Major. Mastery Gunnery Sergeant is considered the most knowledgeable in their job rating (MOS). Sergeant Major is part of the command element of the Unit, and reports only to the commanding officer.

Im a retired SgtMaj

Drop down and give me 25 push-ups….

I was showing my husband your military picture and he immediately said "Oh wow, he's a top ranking officer, the top of the top." He was highly impressed and told me to say hey Master Gunnery or to call you E-9. He was so excited to hear what you would say. He's going to love your post once he gets home from work.

I just know Mike would have a blast talking with you and Tall Timbers. I would love for us to get together at the Ark Encouner. I was hoping to make it there for this May and try to coordinate with other CCF members but now with Mike's Academy in limbo, it's not sure when he'll be away and when we can make plans.