The Investment of Prince Charles with a stolen title.

[Ronnie]

The Investment of Prince Charles when the title, The Prince of Wales was bestowed on him by Queen Elsabeth, a title that was not hers to bestow.

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[Tall Timbers]

Why wasn't it hers to bestow? She was the reigning Monarch, afterall...

 

[Ronnie]

The title, a Welsh title, belong to Prince then King Owain Glyndwr who lived in a time when Wales wasn’t in the UK. Shouldn’t the Prince of Wales be Welsh?

 

[Tall Timbers]

Shouldn’t the Prince of Wales be Welsh?

I suppose that would be reasonable, but I think the Queen has the authority to hand out the titles to whomever she pleases. Now I'm no expert on the Monarchy, that's for sure... I'm just speculating that she has that authority.

 

[Baby Yoda]

 

[mattfivefour]

Why wasn't it hers to bestow. She was the reigning Monarch, afterall...

She was the reigning English monarch. And therein lies the problem. The fact is that 750 years ago the title of Prince of Wales was stolen by the English King Edward I after his troops killed the reigning Prince of Wales, Llywelyn ap Gruffydd in battle in 1282, and then executed Llywelyn's brother Daffydd ap Gruffydd in 1283, (thus making Daffydd the last Welsh-born ruler of that nation.)

A few years later Edward I named his 16-year-old son (who would go on to succeed him as king) the first Prince of Wales in 1301. And thus the English tradition began.

About 90 years later, Owain ap Thomas ap Rhodri, known in history books as Owain Lawgoch, a Welsh descendant of what had once been the chief Welsh royal family, tried an abortive attempt at taking control of the country, but with no success.

30 years later Owain ap Gruffydd, better known as Owain Glyn Dŵr, claimed the title of Prince of Wales and led a 15 year revolt against the British. He was defeated in battle twice by the English Prince Henry (who became King Henry the Fifth of Great Britain) but escaped and disappeared, apparently living out the remainder of his life in obscurity somewhere in the mountains of northern Welsh.

Because of the history listed above, Welsh nationalists --even today-- argue that the title of Prince of Wales was stolen from the Welsh and that only Welsh descendants of one of the original royal families of Wales merits the title.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

Conquered nation.
Conquerors can do what they please with regard to government, titles, administration, etc.
Wales is and was at the time of the Investiture, part of the UK, and the Queen was the reigning Monarch.

Failed attempts don't yield the desired prizes/trophies/changes rebels desire.

If Wales were to declare independence and successfully break away from the UK, and someone were named Prince of Wales, a "sticky wicket" would ensue

 

[Tall Timbers]

She was the reigning English monarch. And therein lies the problem. The fact is that 750 years ago the title of Prince of Wales was stolen by the English King Edward I after his troops killed the reigning Prince of Wales, Llywelyn ap Gruffydd in battle in 1282, and then executed Llywelyn's brother Daffydd ap Gruffydd in 1283, (thus making Daffydd the last Welsh-born ruler of that nation.)

A few years later Edward I named his 16-year-old son (who would go on to succeed him as king) the first Prince of Wales in 1301. And thus the English tradition began.

About 90 years later, Owain ap Thomas ap Rhodri, known in history books as Owain Lawgoch, a Welsh descendant of what had once been the chief Welsh royal family, tried an abortive attempt at taking control of the country, but with no success.

30 years later Owain ap Gruffydd, better known as Owain Glyn Dŵr, claimed the title of Prince of Wales and led a 15 year revolt against the British. He was defeated in battle twice by the English Prince Henry (who became King Henry the Fifth of Great Britain) but escaped and disappeared, apparently living out the remainder of his life in obscurity somewhere in the mountains of northern Welsh.

Because of the history listed above, Welsh nationalists --even today-- argue that the title of Prince of Wales was stolen from the Welsh and that only Welsh descendants of one of the original royal families of Wales merits the title.

Very interesting history, thanks for posting that. My kin are from Scrooby and Pickering, just south of Wales.

 

[Tall Timbers]

Conquered nation.

Yep, with all due respect to the wonderful Welsh, the title appears to have been a spoil of war.

 

[Batman]

I wonder what other titles he will get in his remaining years?

 

[Hol]

I wonder what other titles he will get in his remaining years?

Do you mean other than King of England?

 

[Margery]

There is a similar tale of theft from Scotland surrounding the Stone of Scone. It's always supposed to be under the throne of any ruling monarch. The Scots originally stole it from Ireland in the dim and misty past, then the Brits stole it from Scotland. The Scots stole it back briefly in 1950 but then England got it back 4 months later. In the late 90's the stone was given back to Scotland if the Brittanica is correct here: Stone of Scone | History & Location | Britannica

Apparently people still care about what stone the monarch parks his or her bottom on.

Then of course the title Defender of the Faith granted to Henry the 8th when he supported the Pope's war on the Reformation. Till good old Henry spied Ann Boleyn, and decided to annul his marriage. The Pope refused, so Henry ever the pragmatist decided to champion the Reformation, hung onto the title (it's a part of the Crown to this day) and became Defender of the Protestant Church of England which was now defined as "the Faith"

History has it's funny moments.

 

[Ronnie]

That’s right, the Stone of Scone was used in ancient coronation of Scotlands kings.