The Hagerites of the land of Gilead

[Grace]

And in the days of Saul they made war with the Hagarites, who fell by their hand: and they dwelt in their tents throughout all the east land of Gilead. 1 Chro 5,10

Land of Gilead – on google maps: 32°21'32.4"N 35°56'01.7"E

The Hagerites are usually associated with Egypt because of Hagar. Here (1 Chro 5,10) the Hagerites had tents in Gilead. Can anyone explain historically how this is to be understood, and whether it is certain that Hagerites are Egyptians or a nomadic people who lived in tents? That would be interesting because - apart from Chronicles 5 and 27 - they are only mentioned in Psalm 83.

Blue Letter Bible: „a people dwelling to the east of Palestine, with whom the tribes of Reuben made war in the time of Saul“

 

[mattfivefour]

Other than the fact that they lived east of Gilead and were not only herdsmen but skilled warriors, everything I have read about the Hagarites (or Hagrites or Hagarenes) seems to me to be based upon speculation. It is reasonable to surmise (but by no means certain) that the name Hagarite is derived from the name Hagar, indicating they were her descendants. According to Genesis 16:1, Hagar was a slave from Egypt. That is the only certain fact about her, other than she was a maid to Sarah, and was made pregnant by Abraham and bore his first son. If the Hagarites were indeed descended from Hagar, then their ancestry was indeed Egyptian. But, as I indicated, this is by no means certain.

 

[Almost Heaven]

In the Bible, King David hired a Hagarite to manage his flocks:
1 Chronicles 27:31: Jaziz was a Hagarite who managed David's flocks.The Hagarites were nomadic people who were accustomed to feeding their cattle in the districts where David's animals were pastured.

 

[Margery]

From the standpoint of Psalm 83 it's good to know where the Hagarites were living in David's general time frame. Asaph was a seer (prophet) who wrote a number of the Psalms including 83 and was a contemporary of David.

If Psalm 83 is a prophecy for a future time like possibly around our time period, then the mention of the Hagarenes or Hagrites might refer to people living in that area during David's time (which right now is northern Jordan north of Amman the capital).

I know Bill Salus thinks that they may be linked to Egypt as their origins under the name of Hagar and that is a possibility too.

so the questions are:
Is Psalm 83 a prophecy meant for a future war that Israel would find herself in with those particular enemies?

If so then who do the Hagrites represent? Jordan, northern tip near Galilee or Egypt where Hagar came from? Jordan like Egypt is occaisionally on Israel's side but most often both act as an enemy. Both nations have large restless groups within them who identify with the "Palestinian" narrative and need regular appeasement.

The answer to the second question- who do they represent kind of falls down to who is present during that war. If that war is the one going on now on multiple fronts, then again both Jordan and Egypt qualify.

Jordan is the invader who populated the "west bank" after they invaded right after Israel became a nation. They took homes, businesses and murdered the owners who weren't able to flee fast enough. Their people settled the area and less than 20 years later in 1967 Jordan attacked again, Israel took back their territory and in an act of kindness - Israel LET THE JORDANIAN ARAB MUSLIMS STAY forming the "West Bank" which is Biblical Judea and Samaria.

That is a big deal because Jordan's ties to the area and support for the takeover of Israel by the muslim invasion is real. So Jordan qualifies as an enemy of Israel who cooperates when it suits Jordanian interests.

Egypt also qualifies because of their silent assistence in the tunnels under the Rafah crossing from Egypt into Gaza where armaments, explosives and other stuff was smuggled in without the official Egypt being "aware". Plausible deniability but look how Egypt threw fits about Israel going into Rafah. Once Israel arrived, they discovered all these huge tunnels that were being used to smuggle all kinds of stuff into Gaza. Egypt's economy obviously benefited from those tunnels that brought the missiles, bombs, vehicles, gas, etc that was used last October to massacre innocent Jews and take babies and children hostage along with adults.

 

[Grace]

I find it really good when things are differentiated here and attention is paid to details. It's not just the Hagerites that are speculated to refer to Egypt. It's also about Saudi Arabia, which is simply equated with the Ishmaelites. In Jeremiah 49, Kedar and Hazor refer to Saudi Arabia. Then it is said that Dedan also refers to them. But Dedan refers to only a part of Arabia. According to 1 Chronicles 1:32, Dedan is descended from Abraham's union with Keturah. This means that they cannot be equated with the Ishmaelites and Dedan at the same time, as the Ishmaelites emerged from Abraham's union with Hagar and are therefore the ancestors of all Arabs. There is therefore a clear need for clarification here.

Maybe we continue to collect: Our Lord calls Asaph a prophet in Matthew 13:35 and quotes him. -

In Luke 24:37 he says: These [are] the words which I spoke to you while I was yet with you, that all that is written concerning me in the law of Moses and prophets and psalms must be fulfilled. - Is there anything concerning him in Psalm 83? Yes.

Fruchtenbaum assumes in his book that Psalm 83 will be completely fulfilled during the tribulation. But then the question remains: why are no Arabstates mentioned in the war of Ezekiel 38-39?

Another point that struck me yesterday when drawing up the list of Israel's enemies.

In Jeremiah 48:2 we read: come, and let us cut it off from being a nation.

Comparison:

They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance. Ps 83:4

As a further point: Amalek is mentioned in the prophecy of Balaam (Genesis 24), which refers to “at the end of days”. Amalek is mentioned for the last time in Scripture in Psalm 83.

With the exception of Asshur, the list of enemies appears to refer to groups of peoples.

 

[Margery]

With the exception of Asshur, the list of enemies appears to refer to groups of peoples.

I think Asshur was the father of the Assyrians- and they hung out in northern and eastern Syria as it sits today. Just checked, their land included chunks of northern Iraq as well.

Genesis 10:22 lists Asshur as one of the sons of Shem among Elam, Arphaxad, Lud, and Aram. It's worth noting that people often named the cities they built after them so the city Asshur might be named after it's founder Asshur