Strap In For 2025: A Year That Will Shake Things Up | with Pastor Tom Hughes & John Haller

[TCC]

In the 45 minute video Hope For Our Times goes through some things to be on the look out for. They discuss the Israel vs Islam apparent divide among other things.

- YouTube

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As far as prophecy updates go, this one is not super informative. Although there is an interesting section on Turkey (as Haller is known for a deep focus on that country). The theme we see today in what this watcher perspective of antisemitism looks like is an interesting thing to note as well. At one point Haller does mention the likelihood of Huckabee perhaps not remaining with the Trump Admin team over conscience toward Israel. The thinking is that perhaps Trump's willingness to divide Isreal (per his previous Deal of the Century stance) might be cause for Huckabee to walk to away.

. . . . .

Ok so I do find the concerns in what this video calls the woke right. Voices like Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens trend towards down playing Israel to some great degree. We do see Israel these days having quite a number of wins. With Trump in office this would seem to increase. To me, I do think there are some legitimate concerns the woke right has towards some of Israel's posturing. I am not altogether convinced Netanyahu is without fault. It does get confusing at times, i must admit.

As for the concern of Huckabee's ambassadorship to Israel, I'm not altogether so sure that Huckabee might walk away. Because, although I understand the sensitivities over dividing up Israel in any way in our day, my exegetical observation of Joel 3:2 is in regards to the dividing of Israel for the purpose of scattering them during the tribulation. The emphasis exegetically is those that have a desire to divide Israel to dismount it. Whereas if Israel for a time is willing to (and i don't see Bibi doing that) have a 2-state solution for the sake of peace for a time through Abraham Accords linkage, that that in the eyes of God would be the be cry found in Joel 3:2. I believe there is a difference. And how that works would, to me, seem to not be in the hands of how we might weigh-in on that in our day, me thinks. For example if Israel does end up with some kind of two state solution for peace sake, to me, this would just be how things lean toward Ez 38, which would be a prophecy no other direction could take...regardless of the common views of our day. Is how i would look at that. Not through the eyes of a Joel 3:2 warning. Because in that, God would allow 2/3rds of Israel be be taken down in Ez 38. Of course with God's protective reprise. But in that case, any two-state solution would be according to where Ez 38 might lead perhaps more than how it might or might not sit with our views about the dividing of Israel. It would be an occurrence not arriving in a vacuum. But in a very very certain context. If that makes sense.

So that leads me to another perspective. Recently i came across this other video. And it provides actually a unique perspective of our day. One in which @1LoverofGod brings up in another thread. "Is what we are witnessing falling into place too easily? And is this just a form of Hegelian Dialectic--two wings of the same bird: Trump really being a conservative face of the NWO?" And although @1LoverofGod of God did not express these sentiments exactly, it is noteworthy in that it is very similar to a long standing "Luciferian Light" view JD Farag has been posturing for years now. According to JD, most certainly, the ease at which compliance comes toward the Trump admin, is far too cozy to be trusted.

And i am aware of this concern. And it is one of the core reasons I stayed on JDF for 4 years even though i do not share a large percentage of the eschatological viewpoints shared there. And i tell ya, it is fascinating to see it come full circle for this forum to actually be asking the same kinds of questions and having potentially the same kinds of concerns. For me, the way I process it is just that I believe there is a certain amount of writing on the wall for the left leaning. And if they see support for their agenda fading, they will be fickle and they will, for comfort sake, acquiesce (for self preservation not for conspiracy). I realize this probably sounds like a simpleton...lol....view. And ok, it may well be. I'll give you that. I am fine if this perspective that the folding NWO stance has a weakness toward self preservation. But that is a very human "of mere men" thing to be about. And I would tend to see it more that than some grand conspiracy. My reasoning comes down to whether our world is under the wizard of Oz wicked mind games more than it is under a sovereign God's end time theater. And although it is often the case seen that if God want's things to devolve into ugly deceptive theater, being one in the same perhaps, to me, it comes down to how visible the character of God upon His creation in the exit strategy might be noticeable in an age of grace still--prior to a tribulation age. The Hegelian Dialectic view, to me, seems to (although out of good faith meant) notice the devils character today more than God's upon His creation. Left with those two focal points, I would believe God's character to be the one more seeable--in "the age of grace."

. . . . .

Which leads me to this video:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

56 minutes

What i noticed about the above video is something interesting. I would say of the two general camps I am aware of, "the watcher world" and the "alt-watcher world," there does seem to be quite a bit of crossover. Both views share the following: As the tribulation comes, we will see more and more beast system activity and more and more lining up under an NWO that brings us into the tribulation. Of those two camps, they both share that view. My eschatological view differs in that i don't think the NWO of today is the one that takes us into the tribulation but reemerges in seal 3. So i expect our NWO to tank. Neither the watcher world or the alt-watcher world hold that view. Just me...lol.

So here is how I see the difference:

The Watcher World: There will be a NWO that leads us into the tribulation

The Alt-Watcher World: There will be a Luciferian Light of the Right to pose as freedom from the NWO but just be a more deceptive version of it.

The reason i believe both perspectives are not accurate, is it holds to have to having some form of a NWO take us into the tribulation. Whereas the watcher world focus is on the tribulation as a satanic empire period, I believe the actual focus in the age of grace is not the beast system leading to the tribulation. But that the tribulation is God's 70th week for Israel more than it is Satan's week for the world. And in that, we will tend to see some very different things. Because for me, the end focus of the age of grace is not about Trump and right wing Hegelian Dialectic deception as much as it is about God's faithfulness to His word and demonstrationally now through Israel. But because of the massive re-orientations included with the ending of the age of grace, it might be rather challenging to leave it at God's character toward Israel. Because we will be challenged with likely quite remarkable occurrences.

<Mod Edit>

 

[1LoverofGod]

In the 45 minute video Hope For Our Times goes through some things to be on the look out for. They discuss the Israel vs Islam apparent divide among other things.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

As far as prophecy updates go, this one is not super informative. Although there is an interesting section on Turkey (as Haller is known for a deep focus on that country). The theme we see today in what this watcher perspective of antisemitism looks like is an interesting thing to note as well. At one point Haller does mention the likelihood of Huckabee perhaps not remaining with the Trump Admin team over conscience toward Israel. The thinking is that perhaps Trump's willingness to divide Isreal (per his previous Deal of the Century stance) might be cause for Huckabee to walk to away.

. . . . .

Ok so I do find the concerns in what this video calls the woke right. Voices like Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens trend towards down playing Israel to some great degree. We do see Israel these days having quite a number of wins. With Trump in office this would seem to increase. To me, I do think there are some legitimate concerns the woke right has towards some of Israel's posturing. I am not altogether convinced Netanyahu is without fault. It does get confusing at times, i must admit.

As for the concern of Huckabee's ambassadorship to Israel, I'm not altogether so sure that Huckabee might walk away. Because, although I understand the sensitivities over dividing up Israel in any way in our day, my exegetical observation of Joel 3:2 is in regards to the dividing of Israel for the purpose of scattering them during the tribulation. The emphasis exegetically is those that have a desire to divide Israel to dismount it. Whereas if Israel for a time is willing to (and i don't see Bibi doing that) have a 2-state solution for the sake of peace for a time through Abraham Accords linkage, that that in the eyes of God would be the be cry found in Joel 3:2. I believe there is a difference. And how that works would, to me, seem to not be in the hands of how we might weigh-in on that in our day, me thinks. For example if Israel does end up with some kind of two state solution for peace sake, to me, this would just be how things lean toward Ez 38, which would be a prophecy no other direction could take...regardless of the common views of our day. Is how i would look at that. Not through the eyes of a Joel 3:2 warning. Because in that, God would allow 2/3rds of Israel be be taken down in Ez 38. Of course with God's protective reprise. But in that case, any two-state solution would be according to where Ez 38 might lead perhaps more than how it might or might not sit with our views about the dividing of Israel. It would be an occurrence not arriving in a vacuum. But in a very very certain context. If that makes sense.

So that leads me to another perspective. Recently i came across this other video. And it provides actually a unique perspective of our day. One in which @1LoverofGod brings up in another thread. "Is what we are witnessing falling into place too easily? And is this just a form of Hegelian Dialectic--two wings of the same bird: Trump really being a conservative face of the NWO?" And although @1LoverofGod of God did not express these sentiments exactly, it is noteworthy in that it is very similar to a long standing "Luciferian Light" view JD Farag has been posturing for years now. According to JD, most certainly, the ease at which compliance comes toward the Trump admin, is far too cozy to be trusted.

And i am aware of this concern. And it is one of the core reasons I stayed on JDF for 4 years even though i do not share a large percentage of the eschatological viewpoints shared there. And i tell ya, it is fascinating to see it come full circle for this forum to actually be asking the same kinds of questions and having potentially the same kinds of concerns. For me, the way I process it is just that I believe there is a certain amount of writing on the wall for the left leaning. And if they see support for their agenda fading, they will be fickle and they will, for comfort sake, acquiesce (for self preservation not for conspiracy). I realize this probably sounds like a simpleton...lol....view. And ok, it may well be. I'll give you that. I am fine if this perspective that the folding NWO stance has a weakness toward self preservation. But that is a very human "of mere men" thing to be about. And I would tend to see it more that than some grand conspiracy. My reasoning comes down to whether our world is under the wizard of Oz wicked mind games more than it is under a sovereign God's end time theater. And although it is often the case seen that if God want's things to devolve into ugly deceptive theater, being one in the same perhaps, to me, it comes down to how visible the character of God upon His creation in the exit strategy might be noticeable in an age of grace still--prior to a tribulation age. The Hegelian Dialectic view, to me, seems to (although out of good faith meant) notice the devils character today more than God's upon His creation. Left with those two focal points, I would believe God's character to be the one more seeable--in "the age of grace."

. . . . .

Which leads me to this video:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

56 minutes

What i noticed about the above video is something interesting. I would say of the two general camps I am aware of, "the watcher world" and the "alt-watcher world," there does seem to be quite a bit of crossover. Both views share the following: As the tribulation comes, we will see more and more beast system activity and more an more lining up under a NWO that brings us into the tribulation. Of those two camps, they both share that view. My eschatological view differs in that i don't think the NWO of today is the one that takes us into the tribulation but reemerges in seal 3. So i expect our NWO to tank. Neither the watcher world or the alt-watcher world hold that view. Just me...lol.

So here is how is see the difference:

The Watcher World: There will be a NWO that leads us into the tribulation

The Alt-Watcher World: There will be a Luciferian Light of the Right to pose as freedom from the NWO but just be a more deceptive version of it.

The reason i believe both perspectives are not accurate, is it holds to have to having some form of a NWO take us into the tribulation. Whereas the watcher world focus is on the tribulation as a satanic empire period, I believe the actual focus in the age of grace is not the beast system leading to the tribulation. But that the tribulation is God's 70th week for Israel more than it is Satan week for the world. And in that, we will tend to see some very different things. Because for me, the end focus of the age of grace is not about Trump and right wing Hegelian Dialectic deception as much as it is about God's faithfulness to His word and demonstrationally now through Israel. But because of the massive re-orientations included with the ending of the age of grace, it might be rather challenging to leave it at God's character toward Israel. Because we will be challenged with likely quite remarkable occurrences.

One of the major hinge points i believe is in development here is the level or proportion our age might grant toward Satan. If everything is about the mark, the system, and the beast, we will tend to see everything through that schematic. We would see Satan ruling for 7 years to come. I don't believe the bible shows us Satan rules for 7 years. Only the last 3.5. And that view is a Debbie Downer view to both the Watcher and Alt-Watcher perspective. By my take though i wish not to be such a party pooper. I just think the pin the tail on the Satanic donkey approach is not what the end of the age of grace is about. Although I extend much heart to the concerns of the evil that has come upon us in our age, and see the Watcher and Alt-Watcher family as family. And very believed members of the body of Christ. I would just see our paradigms very different. And that probably won't change. But as the Lord tarries, He grants of course time to talk about it.

I bring up the Watcher World and the Alt-Watcher world distinctions for another reason. In my neck of the woods, the biggest pro-alt-watcher view in mainstream evangelicalism I can think of (in my small corner of the world view) is JD Farag.

OnPointPreparedness -- has 165k subs
E511 -- has 5k subs
Good Fight Ministries -- has 265k subs

There perhaps are other Alt-watcher perspectives. But those 3 channels are the main ones I have been aware of for a while. These seem to make the most noise. I put up the video from The Dance of Life podcast because i just ran into it. Although this video came out 1 year ago (having over 70k view and over 1500 comments) I would like to bring up this point. I don't see ministries like Jack Hibbs, or Billy Crone, or Tom Hughes, or even John Haller seeing things as the Alt-Watcher world does. I don't believe the watcher world in general shares the Alt-Watcher world views. But the Alt-Watcher world views have been around for years. My first awareness of it was with E511 and JD. At the time (during the early Trump and Q years) I was actually supportive of the E511 take. It's concern with Q and all. I understood Pastors concerns with Trump worship and making right wing politics a religion. I supported being in opposition to that. For i could see how the distortion of politics had become. However, it was around 2018 when I started also to see trends into the eschatology view i now hold regarding the 1st seal, Ez 38, and the character of God being demonstrated (in contrast to much of the watcher end times views) during the age of grace closing.

Originally, I was onboard with the JDF view that the Deal of the Century was not good, as it proposed dividing up Israel. I was against that happening. While on JDF over the course of 4 years i had a very detailed discussion with one of the beautiful saints on JDF about the Abrahamic Covenant. We went back and forth a number of times. And it was a great blessings to do so. She also was challenged and encouraged as well as I. It was a wonderful discussion. This led me to understand that although the Abrahamic Covenant is actually eternal, it did have many attributes with it regarding conditions. Israel is by no means complying on their side. And to an extent, it would make sense their non-compliance and unbelief would lead to Ez 38. With that in view it is more likely the way God is dealing with Israel today is of course from His eternal view of the Abrahamic Covenant. Our natural response is for Israel to not divide. However, again, the concern God shared from scripture is over dividing Israel for the purpose of dissolving the nation. Not what peace treatise they may enter in their unbelief. It is also understood that Israel, in her Old Testament covenant with God, were not to make covenants with other nations. This was when they were in covenant with God. Right now they have a partial hardening and from their national perspective are by no means in a covenant with God. So what they do and don't do today is not in relation to "as if" they themselves were otherwise honoring a covenant with God. And i understand this observation can get foggy and blur some lines. But right now, its not like Israel is in good standing with a covenant with God. And if they divide anything or make treatise with other nations, they will suffer violating their covenant. For God divorced that covenant in the first century. Now Isreal is on the mend in God's good grace toward His honoring that eternal covenant. But as tempting as it is for perhaps the church to play quarterback on how Israel violates a covenant today or not, I humbly submit that we are in no wise authorized to do so. And to the extent we might see we are, i believe that arena of confusion is where some of the conflation of OT and NT contrasts for us get fuzzy. Israel right now is in all manner of violation of OT Abrahamic covenant. And it is from that place they do anything today. Other than that, all grace toward them is God's faithfulness. So it is ironic to a degree that we might on one hand know this great grace of God toward them in operation today, yet overlay it with our kind of an armchair quarterbacking as though we might have say upon Israel and their actions today -- as it relates or does not relate to an Abrahamic Covenant. That is between God and them. We really don't have a place in that. As far as i can tell. Other than, yeah if dividing up Israel for the purpose of removing Israel occurs, it would be good for the church to be about that. For we know. But beyond that, on one hand we see God faithful to them (which is a character of God theme), yet seem to some degree in ways shoehorn Israel into our blue print schematic of prophecy road mapping. And while we do so, tend to omit Ez 38 focus, replacing it with beast system focus. But i contend that the age of grace proper (in closing) is in regards to Israel and the character of God, more than it is having to do with the beast system. And to the extent this might sound absurd, it just suggest perhaps how far afield we might have taken our view, perhaps?

. . . . .

Having said all of that, i would suggest something. Aside from pastor JD, there might be other pretribulation rapture people that believe in the Alt-Watcher view perspective. But i don't really know of any. For the Luciferian Light theory is owned and operated primarily by those who do not hold a pretrib rapture view. So they can make a Luciferian Light operation concrete today because for the view that is not pretrib rapture, the church will be here. And we will need to be aware of deception because we are going to go through the tribulation. Aside from JD, i know of no other supporter of the Luciferian Light view that is pretrib...that has an official ministry office. So this is good to take note of I believe family. It may not mean much. But one thing it does mean today, is this: The Luciferian Light theory that is concerned with Christian Nationalism getting a foothold "is" a "church goes into the tribulation" position. The reason why Pastor JD was sold on it initally is because of E511. Which is the same as Good Fight Ministries. Which believes Darby was deceived. And the church goes through the tribulation. Since Trump did warp speed, he was a shoe-in to take an Alt-Watcher fall. And then make him out to be a fall guy all the way down the line. So I just think it might be helpful to know that the main Luciferian Light theory pretrib rapture position comes from JD, who hold's the Luciferian Light theory because of being influenced by the "Christians go through the tribulation" perspective. Those that hold the view that Christians go through the tribulation have every intent to see the Trump admin as the new NWO because they see themselves as the warriors against the antichrist in the tribulation. So i just thought it helpful to note this. Because we are to some degree under the influence of a non-pretrib view when sharing the Luciferian Light theory. And it might be good to check ourselves in that is all. Because if you watch that second video i posted here, you will clearly see that is absolutely the case.

I don't bring this up to convince anyone of my 1st seal view. For it would appear to be an impossible sell. lol. But that's fine. And i have doubts even about it myself, amen. But what is highlighted by the Alt-Right Watcher view is to some degree a refusal to consider the character of God towards Israel's being slowly invited back into the Abrahamic Covenant by God -- as THE main theater today. Above and beyond the shiny objects of the beast system and the Luciferian Light non-pretrib Christian view. By this i am not suggesting we just go with my petty 1st seal view...lol. Heaven's no. But a good this to watch as much as we might have suspicion toward Hegelian Dialectic, is this: See how sober minded believers will be aware of how non-pretrib rapture views can overtake them without considering that it might just be, "A pretty convincing argument from the non-pre trib camp." I have heard absolutely no pretrib believer who shares the Luciferian Light view consider that for one second. But would be far more likely to just go with it. And this alarms me. Because its one thing to hold to view because of our convictions. Its another to have our convictions hold us. And what seems to be on the side of the road is the preeminent perspective of God's character toward Israel being of greater billboard signific than the beast system focus we tend to be far more influenced by. Us. Children of the light. As 1 Thes calls us. Believing perspectives sold by sincere believers who would see us children of light go into the thralls of the age of darkness. And not realize that whatsoever. This to me should at least be an item on the table of discernment, I believe. Blessings.

I've heard a lot of things you point out up thread and while I listen to the various assessments and analysis on the NWO agenda being on both sides of politics I do take some things into consideration while also trying to discern what is legitimate and what seems to be bait to get people on board with what may turn out to be sugar coated utterances that really mean the same thing coming from the straight forward outspoken agenda that may sound outrageous and yet the more sugar coated side is more digestible and easier to accept because it doesn't sound as bad as the to the point agenda.
I'm having trouble making my point here but, it falls in line with what would define the
Hegelian Dialectic you mention, having the same agenda but packaged differently.

I tend to think that we want so much to see good in people and give the benefit of the doubt that they are legitimately doing good, while behind the scenes there's a bad taste with the good sounding messaging we hear.

That's why when I pointed out Trump's interest in uniting the adjoined nations if the US into one Union, it does fall into place with both the globalists agenda for a Ten Region One World Government and Prophecy of the Ten Kings Beast Kingdom of Daniel 7:7, but by what I am observing only on the surface with this, I can only say that Trump is knowingly or unknowingly helping set up for the coming One World Government that the Bible says Will come.
I keep in mind what scripture says about Satan in that "he masquerades like an angel of light".
This is why we can't just readily take what we see or hear for face value but need to objectively look deeper into what we hear and see because Jesus said one of the signs of His second coming would be deception.
As for BiBi, he's another that I see the way I see Trump.
I think on the surface BiBi has good intentions for Israel, but has no discernment as to what God's predetermined plan is for Israel and goes by a secular view of things as to what is best for Israel.
A while back I had heard that Benjamin Netanyahu had gone to the School for Young Global Leaders as well, but his name has been removed from the WEF website Alumni list, as other names have been scrubbed out.
I cannot confirm whether BiBi was in fact groomed by Klaus Schwab for the OWG, but some of his decisions seem quite questionable as to does he realize what he's doing? Like agreeing to give up some land for peace.
IDK but I watch, I pay attention, and I try not to be so ready to jump with glee over what seems too good to be true.
There's so much deception out there and as some are being distracted by other things, the distractions are putting a cloudy view of what's really going on right in front of us.
We all want to see good things and hold on to as much normalcy as possible, but then we are very close to Jesus return and we know the closer to it the more uncomfortable it will be for believers to live with and we can't have it both ways of having it good and knowing things are going to get rough as we near The coming Day of The Lord and of course The Rapture of The Church to take place prior to the Tribulation and going by the definition of Harpazo, we're going to be snatched away quickly as a Divine rescuing from danger.
Not going to realistically have it good as we would like. It's going to get worse but has to be for God to make all things New.

 

[TCC]

I've heard a lot of things you point out up thread and while I listen to the various assessments and analysis on the NWO agenda being on both sides of politics I do take some things into consideration while also trying to discern what is legitimate and what seems to be bait to get people on board with what may turn out to be sugar coated utterances that really mean the same thing coming from the straight forward outspoken agenda that may sound outrageous and yet the more sugar coated side is more digestible and easier to accept because it doesn't sound as bad as the to the point agenda.
I'm having trouble making my point here but, it falls in line with what would define the
Hegelian Dialectic you mention, having the same agenda but packaged differently.

I tend to think that we want so much to see good in people and give the benefit of the doubt that they are legitimately doing good, while behind the scenes there's a bad taste with the good sounding messaging we hear.

That's why when I pointed out Trump's interest in uniting the adjoined nations if the US into one Union, it does fall into place with both the globalists agenda for a Ten Region One World Government and Prophecy of the Ten Kings Beast Kingdom of Daniel 7:7, but by what I am observing only on the surface with this, I can only say that Trump is knowingly or unknowingly helping set up for the coming One World Government that the Bible says Will come.
I keep in mind what scripture says about Satan in that "he masquerades like an angel of light".
This is why we can't just readily take what we see or hear for face value but need to objectively look deeper into what we hear and see because Jesus said one of the signs of His second coming would be deception.
As for BiBi, he's another that I see the way I see Trump.
I think on the surface BiBi has good intentions for Israel, but has no discernment as to what God's predetermined plan is for Israel and goes by a secular view of things as to what is best for Israel.
A while back I had heard that Benjamin Netanyahu had gone to the School for Young Global Leaders as well, but his name has been removed from the WEF website Alumni list, as other names have been scrubbed out.
I cannot confirm whether BiBi was in fact groomed by Klaus Schwab for the OWG, but some of his decisions seem quite questionable as to does he realize what he's doing? Like agreeing to give up some land for peace.
IDK but I watch, I pay attention, and I try not to be so ready to jump with glee over what seems too good to be true.
There's so much deception out there and as some are being distracted by other things, the distractions are putting a cloudy view of what's really going on right in front of us.
We all want to see good things and hold on to as much normalcy as possible, but then we are very close to Jesus return and we know the closer to it the more uncomfortable it will be for believers to live with and we can't have it both ways of having it good and knowing things are going to get rough as we near The coming Day of The Lord and of course The Rapture of The Church to take place prior to the Tribulation and going by the definition of Harpazo, we're going to be snatched away quickly as a Divine rescuing from danger.
Not going to realistically have it good as we would like. It's going to get worse but has to be for God to make all things New.

Thanks for the reply. I hear what you are saying. But there is 1 main difference that is neither good nor bad. But first this. There is a belief that Bibi is a globalist and that Israel is not Israel but a fake. And its all deception. But this view is held by those who believe that we go into the tribulation as the church.

The other thing i would say is that it would seem a main different ingredient whether good or bad is that it seems the schematic we lean toward is our view of deep fried tribulation aspects coming afloat during the age of grace. Perhaps there is a sober approach in that. But from what i have seen, the tribulation features too large in the church mind. And Israel too little. The reason i say that is in reference to what you shared. What if Trump is involved with lining up Israel for Ez 38 and the things about the one world govenrment don't emerge unitl the tribulation itself? If we use our discernment to be about the what aspects of the tribulation fall in line with the age of grace while ignoring it might be so much more about what lines up with Israel...all our bearings would be off. Then how could we be more discerning by being less discerning (having nothing to do with good or bad things happening)? What if the key to end time interpretation is Isreal Israel Isreal? And the church insist its on our view of how the beast system and the ten nations and globalism fit in now? We would be extremely way off. And all along the way miss God's import upon Israel in His last days with the church on earth. All because we don't want to be deceived though? What would that matter? We are going to be raptured anyway. So what if Trump takes America into communism or one world government? I mean i realize not wanting to be deceived. But if our potential to being deceived is also in our not wanting to be, how well did that go? Its just our temporal version and exercise of deceiving ourselves though. If for us God is victorious...why so much focus on not being taken advantage of? On the merits i understand. Its just that i don't think we leave room for Israel to be the focus because if we did it would be more about His faithfulness. Why care about His faithfulness when we are so close to the tribuation? Probably because we will be spending eternity with Him?

 

[Andy C]

There is a belief that Bibi is a globalist and that Israel is not Israel but a fake

Im not sure why you would even post the possibility Israel is not Israel?

 

[TCC]

Im not sure why you would even post the possibility Israel is not Israel?

Because that idea is akin to the same things that go with Hegelian Dialectic. The idea that Isreal is not Israel is a replacement theology. It is not biblical but it goes with those who believe the church goes through the tribulation. Hegelian Dialectic comes from those who also see the church going through the tribulation. I'm not making that up. Sure there are some pretrib rapture believers in office like JD that hold to Luciferian Light views. But the bulk of that systematic is with those who believe the church goes through the tribulation.

So the reason i brought it up was to demonstrate it is linked to the idea that the Luciferian Light theory also has replacement theory origins. And is held in bulk by those who don't hold to a pretrib rapture. Because there minds are on the temporal seeing that the church goes through the tribulation. See things through a replacement constructed paradigm.

We could differ on why that is so. But i don't bring up Israel is fake for us to think that or doubt if Israel is real. I bring it up to help us soberly consider that similar camps brought us the Luciferian Light theory. Because they are ready to duke it out with the antichrist in the tribulation. And that in part the reason we think so much upon the tribulation for the age of grace, is because that position that sees the church going into the tribulation does not see a distinction. For them, its the same age.

Because they believe it is. I understand we can consider things about the trib for our age and not be replacement theologians. Amen. I understand that. But i bring it up because the way i see the wings of folly come is on helping the church perhaps think more of the tribulation than the age we are in. For that is a non-pretrib construction. If that makes sense? Blessings.

 

[1LoverofGod]

Thanks for the reply. I hear what you are saying. But there is 1 main difference that is neither good nor bad. But first this. There is a belief that Bibi is a globalist and that Israel is not Israel but a fake. And its all deception. But this view is held by those who believe that we go into the tribulation as the church.

The other thing i would say is that it would seem a main different ingredient whether good or bad is that it seems the schematic we lean toward is our view of deep fried tribulation aspects coming afloat during the age of grace. Perhaps there is a sober approach in that. But from what i have seen, the tribulation features too large in the church mind. And Israel too little. The reason i say that is in reference to what you shared. What if Trump is involved with lining up Israel for Ez 38 and the things about the one world govenrment don't emerge unitl the tribulation itself? If we use our discernment to be about the what aspects of the tribulation fall in line with the age of grace while ignoring it might be so much more about what lines up with Israel...all our bearings would be off. Then how could we be more discerning by being less discerning (having nothing to do with good or bad things happening)? What if the key to end time interpretation is Isreal Israel Isreal? And the church insist its on our view of how the beast system and the ten nations and globalism fit in now? We would be extremely way off. And all along the way miss God's import upon Israel in His last days with the church on earth. All because we don't want to be deceived though? What would that matter? We are going to be raptured anyway. So what if Trump takes America into communism or one world government? I mean i realize not wanting to be deceived. But if our potential to being deceived is also in our not wanting to be, how well did that go? Its just our temporal version and exercise of deceiving ourselves though. If for us God is victorious...why so much focus on not being taken advantage of? On the merits i understand. Its just that i don't think we leave room for Israel to be the focus because if we did it would be more about His faithfulness. Why care about His faithfulness when we are so close to the tribuation? Probably because we will be spending eternity with Him?

I wouldn't even consider that Israel today is not the Israel God has as a remnant who as a nation will be saved when they call on Messiah Jesus.
BiBi may or may not be a globalist IDK but there's no doubt that he does tend to think Secular when it comes to Israel's interests but then that's expected being that at the moment God has partially blinded Israel until the appointed time of Jacob's trouble.
I think there's a lot around us right now pointing to what's coming prophetically.
As for the land of Israel being divided, reading Joel chapter 3 tells me it is divided and that stirs up God's wrath. Whether it happens this side of the Rapture or after I don't know.
As far as I am concerned the land has already been divided and is one of the reasons Israel has gone to war, to get back what was taken from them, like the Golan Heights was and how there's a so called West Bank which is biblically Judea and Samaria

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

Lol so many good prophecy update vid released this week that i'm teying to catch up on.

After Jeff Kinleys one i'll watch this video.

 

[TCC]

I wouldn't even consider that Israel today is not the Israel God has as a remnant who as a nation will be saved when they call on Messiah Jesus.
BiBi may or may not be a globalist IDK but there's no doubt that he does tend to think Secular when it comes to Israel's interests but then that's expected being that at the moment God has partially blinded Israel until the appointed time of Jacob's trouble.
I think there's a lot around us right now pointing to what's coming prophetically.
As for the land of Israel being divided, reading Joel chapter 3 tells me it is divided and that stirs up God's wrath. Whether it happens this side of the Rapture or after I don't know.
As far as I am concerned the land has already been divided and is one of the reasons Israel has gone to war, to get back what was taken from them, like the Golan Heights was and how there's a so called West Bank which is biblically Judea and Samaria

I believe it is the Israel that goes through the tribulation too. But like i share the division is in relation to getting rid of them from the land. I mean i know it is always a ploy of some in the Arab world that want to unseat Israel altogether. So division by that sentiment is of course wrong. But what Israel has done in how it had provided division was for survival. I don't think Trump or the Western world (aside from the EU of course) wants to divide Israel to destroy it. In theory, they would just want to go with what works for the middle east in general. So they would go with that. I don't see Western ideas of having peace in the middle east in relation to Israel is a desire to uproot Israel. The EU and the UN will always be trying to do that. They are culprits. They are the ones who have it in their heart to divide Israel so as to disperse them. And the Western world that does try to use division as help to keep the peace know that game. But their interests are what can be done now toward peace.

I believe God is for the Palestinian too. For many of them are not to blame for being there. Many a peoples are caught in the tug-of-war. So God cares for their care too as their Creator. Ok so a while back i saw a great interview Tom Hughes did with an Israeli woman. She shared from the heart. And i think that is great the church stands with Israel. Even if Isreal might be too aggressive and too militant where they don't have to be necessarily...i would understand. I would not give them a pass. I would argue for those who might be caught in the cross-hairs. And would not want to justify Israeli oppression where it might be the case they do. But because of the word i would tend to always side with Isreal.

But during this interview Tom had the woman explain how she said it is those terrorists on the outside of their cities that want to hurt us. And this is true. That does exist. But she also mentioned in another place where she did express things towards the Arab world that struck me really strange. Like she was doing to them the same thing she did not want them to do to her people. Its not something Tom caught. But it came across to me as hurtful on the girls part. And i think we understand. Living like that causes trauma. And causes even unreasonable points of view. We can have compassion on that. But it just seems like the division thing that we don't seem to make distinctions between those who out of ignorance try and blend peace in the middle east through land rights. Regardless of how that impacts Israel, that is not the same as what scripture is saying in Joel. Regardless if it before the rapture or after. Its not the timing its the intent.

Look, i have seen we kind of have come up with our own rules. Not you. Not our forum. But some in the media over the division issue. Look i understand Pastors are just trying to honor the word. But i've heard that America is divided because of the Trump Deal of the Century attempt. That did not even go through...lol. To me, that is making up the rules as we go. Look i understand the concern. And appreciate that pastors want to honor the word. I empathize with that. But i have just seen the watcher world at times take it upon ourselves to define the rules. As though we spoke for God prophetically in our age. And i think THAT is part of the problem. Not solution.

Because America is divided from all the globalists influences that want Marxist ideology to control. Pretending to divide Israel to get something else is not the same as dividing Israel to dismantle it. And if those views are not soundly parsed, i don't trust those thoughts as coming from God. But reminds me too much of how the church I grew up in wanting to have the director's cut of what God was saying. When i discovered how very different and outside of the office of men His truth resides. In any case i appreciate your taking the time to discuss. I'm just concerned though how far out there the church might be willing to go with trying to make sense. And since i am a member i will be here trying to help where i might. If anything as the dust clears i think what we are left with is Israel how God intends them to go as a gauge and way shower of our prophetic age we might ourselves want more of a narrative concerning. In some ways, lol, i guess i am jealous for wanting to love the way the church sees things. Because i hadn't really had the luxury along the way so much. And i'd be willing to fight for the right to bask in it. But not at the cost of sobriety. Which i do think we are all after. Blessings.

 

[1LoverofGod]

I believe it is the Israel that goes through the tribulation too. But like i share the division is in relation to getting rid of them from the land. I mean i know it is always a ploy of some in the Arab world that want to unseat Israel altogether. So division by that sentiment is of course wrong. But what Israel has done in how it had provided division was for survival. I don't think Trump or the Western world (aside from the EU of course) wants to divide Israel to destroy it. In theory, they would just want to go with what works for the middle east in general. So they would go with that. I don't see Western ideas of having peace in the middle east in relation to Israel is a desire to uproot Israel. The EU and the UN will always be trying to do that. They are culprits. They are the ones who have it in their heart to divide Israel so as to disperse them. And the Western world that does try to use division as help to keep the peace know that game. But their interests are what can be done now toward peace.

I believe God is for the Palestinian too. For many of them are not to blame for being there. Many a peoples are caught in the tug-of-war. So God cares for their care too as their Creator. Ok so a while back i saw a great interview Tom Hughes did with an Israeli woman. She shared from the heart. And i think that is great the church stands with Israel. Even if Isreal might be too aggressive and too militant where they don't have to be necessarily...i would understand. I would not give them a pass. I would argue for those who might be caught in the cross-hairs. And would not want to justify Israeli oppression where it might be the case they do. But because of the word i would tend to always side with Isreal.

But during this interview Tom had the woman explain how she said it is those terrorists on the outside of their cities that want to hurt us. And this is true. That does exist. But she also mentioned in another place where she did express things towards the Arab world that struck me really strange. Like she was doing to them the same thing she did not want them to do to her people. Its not something Tom caught. But it came across to me as hurtful on the girls part. And i think we understand. Living like that causes trauma. And causes even unreasonable points of view. We can have compassion on that. But it just seems like the division thing that we don't seem to make distinctions between those who out of ignorance try and blend peace in the middle east through land rights. Regardless of how that impacts Israel, that is not the same as what scripture is saying in Joel. Regardless if it before the rapture or after. Its not the timing its the intent.

Look, i have seen we kind of have come up with our own rules. Not you. Not our forum. But some in the media over the division issue. Look i understand Pastors are just trying to honor the word. But i've heard that America is divided because of the Trump Deal of the Century attempt. That did not even go through...lol. To me, that is making up the rules as we go. Look i understand the concern. And appreciate that pastors want to honor the word. I empathize with that. But i have just seen the watcher world at times take it upon ourselves to define the rules. As though we spoke for God prophetically in our age. And i think THAT is part of the problem. Not solution.

Because America is divided from all the globalists influences that want Marxist ideology to control. Pretending to divide Israel to get something else is not the same as dividing Israel to dismantle it. And if those views are not soundly parsed, i don't trust those thoughts as coming from God. But reminds me too much of how the church I grew up in wanting to have the director's cut of what God was saying. When i discovered how very different and outside of the office of men His truth resides. In any case i appreciate your taking the time to discuss. I'm just concerned though how far out there the church might be willing to go with trying to make sense. And since i am a member i will be here trying to help where i might. If anything as the dust clears i think what we are left with is Israel how God intends them to go as a gauge and way shower of our prophetic age we might ourselves want more of a narrative concerning. In some ways, lol, i guess i am jealous for wanting to love the way the church sees things. Because i hadn't really had the luxury along the way so much. And i'd be willing to fight for the right to bask in it. But not at the cost of sobriety. Which i do think we are all after. Blessings.

After reading your comments on various threads today I have come to understand.
You're so right.

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

I believe it is the Israel that goes through the tribulation too. But like i share the division is in relation to getting rid of them from the land. I mean i know it is always a ploy of some in the Arab world that want to unseat Israel altogether. So division by that sentiment is of course wrong. But what Israel has done in how it had provided division was for survival. I don't think Trump or the Western world (aside from the EU of course) wants to divide Israel to destroy it. In theory, they would just want to go with what works for the middle east in general. So they would go with that. I don't see Western ideas of having peace in the middle east in relation to Israel is a desire to uproot Israel. The EU and the UN will always be trying to do that. They are culprits. They are the ones who have it in their heart to divide Israel so as to disperse them. And the Western world that does try to use division as help to keep the peace know that game. But their interests are what can be done now toward peace.

I believe God is for the Palestinian too. For many of them are not to blame for being there. Many a peoples are caught in the tug-of-war. So God cares for their care too as their Creator. Ok so a while back i saw a great interview Tom Hughes did with an Israeli woman. She shared from the heart. And i think that is great the church stands with Israel. Even if Isreal might be too aggressive and too militant where they don't have to be necessarily...i would understand. I would not give them a pass. I would argue for those who might be caught in the cross-hairs. And would not want to justify Israeli oppression where it might be the case they do. But because of the word i would tend to always side with Isreal.

But during this interview Tom had the woman explain how she said it is those terrorists on the outside of their cities that want to hurt us. And this is true. That does exist. But she also mentioned in another place where she did express things towards the Arab world that struck me really strange. Like she was doing to them the same thing she did not want them to do to her people. Its not something Tom caught. But it came across to me as hurtful on the girls part. And i think we understand. Living like that causes trauma. And causes even unreasonable points of view. We can have compassion on that. But it just seems like the division thing that we don't seem to make distinctions between those who out of ignorance try and blend peace in the middle east through land rights. Regardless of how that impacts Israel, that is not the same as what scripture is saying in Joel. Regardless if it before the rapture or after. Its not the timing its the intent.

Look, i have seen we kind of have come up with our own rules. Not you. Not our forum. But some in the media over the division issue. Look i understand Pastors are just trying to honor the word. But i've heard that America is divided because of the Trump Deal of the Century attempt. That did not even go through...lol. To me, that is making up the rules as we go. Look i understand the concern. And appreciate that pastors want to honor the word. I empathize with that. But i have just seen the watcher world at times take it upon ourselves to define the rules. As though we spoke for God prophetically in our age. And i think THAT is part of the problem. Not solution.

Because America is divided from all the globalists influences that want Marxist ideology to control. Pretending to divide Israel to get something else is not the same as dividing Israel to dismantle it. And if those views are not soundly parsed, i don't trust those thoughts as coming from God. But reminds me too much of how the church I grew up in wanting to have the director's cut of what God was saying. When i discovered how very different and outside of the office of men His truth resides. In any case i appreciate your taking the time to discuss. I'm just concerned though how far out there the church might be willing to go with trying to make sense. And since i am a member i will be here trying to help where i might. If anything as the dust clears i think what we are left with is Israel how God intends them to go as a gauge and way shower of our prophetic age we might ourselves want more of a narrative concerning. In some ways, lol, i guess i am jealous for wanting to love the way the church sees things. Because i hadn't really had the luxury along the way so much. And i'd be willing to fight for the right to bask in it. But not at the cost of sobriety. Which i do think we are all after. Blessings.

I agree, for the west, i think it's mainly that they want peace in that area and also bragging rights for being the ones that were finally being able to bring about peace to what seemed to be an impossible task.

 

[TCC]

I agree, for the west, i think it's mainly that they want peace in that area and also bragging rights for being the ones that were finally being able to bring about peace to what seemed to be an impossible task.

I believe that if whatever transitions with Trump, should Saudi Arabia normalize...wow...we're in the second hand mode.

 

[TCC]

After reading your comments on various threads today I have come to understand.
You're so right.

Wow. lol. You caught me off guard. Well thanks for saying and sharing that. I appreciate your effort in tracking. And your kind reply Even though I try and put forth strong sentiments, please know that even so, I try deeply to consider the alternative views to mine. Because we can see what happens when we tend to run with things perhaps too far into the next county. And we are all prone to do that somewhere. So please know that even though i share with concerted effort and tension, I'm always also thinking about the possibilities of where alternative views might have weight and potential. I would not be on this forum if there were not very likely potentials with what we might be seeing things as or concerned with. For me, it tends to be a contrast of paradigms or POV more than perhaps specifics.

Like for example I don't subscribe to the vax being a type of mark of the beast. But I do appreciate stances against the vax and warning people not to take it. Because for the age of grace, it is symbolic of the mark no doubt. A pretty raw awakening I'd say. So like the important thing there to me is not so much if its mark like as much as it keeps people away from using it, and helps bring it under scrutiny publicly. That is needed. So if some might view it as a type of the mark or precursor, I don't really see that nor agree with it. But the authority that carries to foster concern for others is what i would see to be the more important paradigm. That we force the government to face its folly. I appreciate you heart and good faith. Thanks again Blessings.