Should a Christian vote?

[Eric Nicholas]

Not at all. I have much enjoyed JD's preaching and teaching over the years. I think he is a good example to his flock and I have no doubt at all that he is most definitely both born again and therefore Spirit-filled.

My stating that I believe it is a born again, Spirit-filled believer's responsibility to vote --and to vote according to biblical principles-- when given the opportunity, in no way means that if you don't, you are not. To think it does is a fallacy in logic. Many Christians, myself included, have engaged in beliefs and behaviors contrary to God's word at times. It makes them no less saved.

For the record, the only person I'm capable of judging is myself. And even there the Bible teaches I'm not fully capable (1 Corinthians 4:3-5). I can, however, humbly but firmly disagree with a fellow minister who teaches something I believe is unscriptural amongst all the wonderful things he teaches and does to the contrary. My responsibility to the flock which God has put into my care necessitates I do that. One day I will stand before the Lord and have to answer for how I carried out His charge. And I find that thought terrifying.

I pray for pastors specifically for the part you stated toward the end.

 

[Matthew6:33]

For the record, I like JD and I have defended him in other threads, he is great on the gospel and his prophecy updates are interesting and unconventional which I enjoy (haven't watched in a while). I did not know he didn't vote but I am saddened by his free will choice not to do so. I still stand by what I said though.

Since we are talking about a man now, I will say that perhaps in this election it didn't matter (thankfully) what JD did with his vote and influence (hindsight is 20/20). Next time it might make the difference. As to not voting for the lesser evil candidate being a sin for a Christian, I still believe it is because we are called to restrain evil in whatever fashion God provides. Not doing so is not wise and pastors are held to a higher standard.

I wonder why he felt it was necessary to tell his congregation he was not voting? That is odd to me. But alas, any man, even a pastor, is capable of sin. We all sin every hour of every day.

Thank God for the good news of Jesus Christ who died and rose again paying the price for ALL of our sins. Past, present, and future. Amen.

 

[Shinobi]

Not at all. I have much enjoyed JD's preaching and teaching over the years. I think he is a good example to his flock and I have no doubt at all that he is most definitely both born again and therefore Spirit-filled.

My stating that I believe it is a born again, Spirit-filled believer's responsibility to vote --and to vote according to biblical principles-- when given the opportunity, in no way means that if you don't, you are not. To think it does is a fallacy in logic. Many Christians, myself included, have engaged in beliefs and behaviors contrary to God's word at times. It makes them no less saved.

For the record, the only person I'm capable of judging is myself. And even there the Bible teaches I'm not fully capable (1 Corinthians 4:3-5). I can, however, humbly but firmly disagree with a fellow minister who teaches something I believe is unscriptural amongst all the wonderful things he teaches and does to the contrary. My responsibility to the flock which God has put into my care necessitates I do that. One day I will stand before the Lord and have to answer for how I carried out His charge. And I find that thought terrifying.

Yet you stated by implication that it is sin if an American does not vote.

it is our responsibility to use that gift to try to insure that godly policies have sway in the public sphere

I have never seen in the Bible where that is stated. If it is not stated then how is it our responsibility to vote? We can use our gifts by many ways and as I showed JD has used his gifts in many other ways. Why can't he just be left alone in his decision not to vote in this past election. His vote would still have meant nothing as his state went to Harris anyway. So why all the fuss because on man chose not to vote.

When some one says to me emphatically they are spirit filled and born again, they are indicating emphatically their authority. As such any thing that follows follows on that authority. The given qualifiers of spirit filled and born again point to one thing an indication that you understanding of scripture is higher than others or else you would not draw attention to those qualifiers. So because you made a point of mentioning that I have to ask how is it a fallacy of logic when you purposely point it out. The implication that comes from pointing it out is reasonable. Firmly disagreeing with JD's decision is one thing, making it something public implies it is a bad decision, one which does no one any harm. So why go all public with it unless deep down you do think JD is guilt of a sin to which JD does not think it was a sin not to vote since he did not vote. How is his decision which in the end is between him and God necessary to make it a public spectacle. Why can't it just be left to JD and God to deal with.

I have a few years under my belt and as such I have watch many people and how they talk and what they say and have come to realize God was dead on, from the heart the mouth speaks. But when the mouth has spoken and the speaker starts back pedaling which do I believe the first or the second. I would ask if we can put this to bed because under the Constitution it is perfectly legal and well with in anyone's civil rights not to vote. Nothing in Scripture implies not voting is going against what God has planned for the individual who does not vote. As such it is not a moot point and definitely not one we need to keep hashing over and over.

So I will acknowledge you are a spirit filled and born again Christian. You did not state plainly that JD is not. JD chose not to vote which is his right under the laws of the country he lives in and not a sin based on any of the sins listed in the Bible. In fact many things that were a sin at one time are no longer considered sin now so even Biblical rules have changed over time. How many of us eat bacon? I would say probably most if not all but that is a guess at best. That being the case I would think best thing is to let it drop. There will be no agreement because some people say they understand the Bible says we must vote but it does not and the law of the land says we don't have to vote if we don't want to. No middle ground to meet on here.

 

[Amethyst]

Agree, @1LoverofGod

____________

I don't think anyone would really care whether a pastor voted or not, or felt it was against his conscience this go-around, but when using a pulpit to make it known, he is using his influence as a pastor and spiritual influence. That can ruffle feathers.

Also, after initial 'constructive' arguments, Proverbs 10:19 comes to mind.

 

[Shinobi]

As to not voting for the lesser evil candidate being a sin for a Christian, I still believe it is because we are called to restrain evil in whatever fashion God provides

If voting for the lessor of two evils is not a sin then voting for any evil is not a sin. Evil is evil lessor or greater. So it could be deduced all that voted for Trump thinking him the lessor of two evils have been the ones to sin. There were third party candidates to vote for that may not been considered any level of evil. So the point has been made a lot of people believe not voting when it is a legal choice is still a sin. Only time will tell if that is true or not. As for restraining evil who among us has that kind of power? I know I don't. I might stop an attack on someone but evil still marches on and will no matter what we do otherwise the Tribulation would not be necessary.

As I said above points have been made in both directions, neither side is willing to give in and meet in the middle. And most importantly it is a moot point. I only defend JD which I more often than not disagree with, because his choice is a legal choice based on the laws and not listed as a law of any kind anywhere I can find in the Bible. I have seen people try and say because not voting is allowing evil to go on unabated yet we know it will anyway all the way till Jesus comes and puts an end to it. So can we please put this one to bed. The election is over, those who wanted Trump in office are overjoyed and those that wanted Harris are miserable and likely plotting something for the next time based on the past few elections. JD didn't vote and it had no effect from preventing what is called the greater of two evils.

I will end with this. It is impossible to argue points from two different vantage points if one or both sides refuse to see the opposing side's point of view. That seems to be the case here. So I am willing to let it go as I was only defending JD's legal choice not to vote.

 

[Andy C]

If voting for the lessor of two evils is not a sin then voting for any evil is not a sin. Evil is evil lessor or greater. So it could be deduced all that voted for Trump thinking him the lessor of two evils have been the ones to sin. There were third party candidates to vote for that may not been considered any level of evil. So the point has been made a lot of people believe not voting when it is a legal choice is still a sin. Only time will tell if that is true or not. As for restraining evil who among us has that kind of power? I know I don't. I might stop an attack on someone but evil still marches on and will no matter what we do otherwise the Tribulation would not be necessary.

As I said above points have been made in both directions, neither side is willing to give in and meet in the middle. And most importantly it is a moot point. I only defend JD which I more often than not disagree with, because his choice is a legal choice based on the laws and not listed as a law of any kind anywhere I can find in the Bible. I have seen people try and say because not voting is allowing evil to go on unabated yet we know it will anyway all the way till Jesus comes and puts an end to it. So can we please put this one to bed. The election is over, those who wanted Trump in office are overjoyed and those that wanted Harris are miserable and likely plotting something for the next time based on the past few elections. JD didn't vote and it had no effect from preventing what is called the greater of two evils.

I will end with this. It is impossible to argue points from two different vantage points if one or both sides refuse to see the opposing side's point of view. That seems to be the case here. So I am willing to let it go as I was only defending JD's legal choice not to vote.

This is not directed at you, but hoping this is the last one.

Hopefully the side track the direction this thread has taken, can be returned to the subject matter, not about posting in circles about voting. Just saying…

 

[Shinobi]

Agree, @1LoverofGod

____________

I don't think anyone would really care whether a pastor voted or not, or felt it was against his conscience this go-around, but when using a pulpit to make it known, he is using his influence as a pastor and spiritual influence. That can ruffle feathers.

Also, after initial 'constructive' arguments, Proverbs 10:19 comes to mind.

Ok, so he made it public but did he tell anyone else not to vote. I doubt it and don't remember that. How does that influence others. Are so many of his congregation not smart enough to decide for themselves or is the subtle implication here that since JD didn't vote maybe many of his congregation didn't vote. That is the only kind of influence you speak of that makes sense.

another verse just a few after also comes to mind Proverbs 10:21 The lips of the righteous feed many: but fools die for want of wisdom.

 

[Andy C]

 

[Shinobi]

I've noticed many Pastors pushing politics like I've never seen either.
Whether they should be doing that is between the Pastor and The Lord and the Church he leads.
If doing that is not biblically correct then scripture gives us counsel on how to handle it. Go to the one doing the wrong and if he doesn't listen, take a witness with you. If he still doesn't listen to counsel then treat him like a person of the world.
Wrong doing isn't for unconstructive debating among Christians.
The wrong doer should be addressed personally.
I stand by this based on Scripture.

I can agree with that when the wrong doing is clear in scripture. Not voting is no where in scripture yet a man was called out for it without just cause but based on personal belief. We are not talking about many pastors we are talking about one. But as such I have not seen anything said about what other pastors are saying or how they may be influencing their congregations. It seems to be a single case because one pastor publicly stated he was not voting and many think that is a sin. Yet not one person can state where in scripture not voting is a sin. I have seen several attempts to apply other scripture verses in the attempt to push a point but never do those ever say "Thou Shalt Vote."

 

[mattfivefour]

I am closing this thread. The issue is not one of whether the Bible says voting is or is not a sin. Of course it doesn't. But the Bible does speak clearly about acting as salt (a preserving and purifying agent) and light (a revealing agent.) That's hard to do if we hold ourselves back from interacting with the world. We are to be as a city on a hill, reflecting God's light into the world. Surely that necessitates working to ensure godly values have free reign in the world. James 4:17 says that "whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin." Therefore, every individual has to decide for themselves whether or not voting is a sin or not.

As a pastor, I have to look at more than myself. I am commanded to instruct and encourage others to put into practice the teachings of God's Word. Therefore I do not have the luxury of remaining silent in matters where that Word gives us instruction. This is why I have spoken repeatedly in this thread. It's not a matter of opinion, but a matter of discerning the spirit of God's Word.

Anyway, I have spoken what I believe the Lord has laid on my heart. I have also allowed a good faith opposing point of view to be expressed. It's now time to let the matter rest and allow the Holy Spirit to instruct each person.